child support question

[tiggger1]

I am asking this for my friend. She has been divorced for about a year. She has custody of her 4 year DD ( who has autism) but her ex is supposed to have her from Wed morning till Friday Morning. He is supposed to pick her up wed, bring her to and from school, she sleeps at his house and then brings her home friday morning. My friend schedules her work ( she is a bartender/waitress) so she works doubles weds and thurs, while her ex has dd and then tries to pick up another shift during the weekend when her mom can babysit.

The issue is for the last 3 or 4 months he has been bailing on her at least twice a month. He will "forget" he had a doctor's appointment that day or got called into work and if he doesn't take it "he'll get fired" so my friend ends up having to either call into work or hire a sitter, last minute, both which causes her to loose money. Sometimes he will give her some $$ for a sitter but its never the amount she would have gotten if she worked or didn't have to hire a sitter.

he just posted on facebook that he had the flu and strep and couldn't get out of bed. I asked her if she knew he was sick and of course he never called her ( he still calls her at least 3-4 times a week.) he said it was because he was "too sick" but he had been online most of the day. she told him she needed to give her money so she could hire a sitter and he told her he couldnt afford too. She finally got him to give her $70.

She can barely afford to live. she does get child support but most of that goes to copays for dd's therapies. and because she has to miss work a lot she barely brings in $300 a month for that... that doesnt even cover food, her car, gas and diapers..

She is thinking about going back to court and getting full custody and trying to get more child support so she can just hire a sitter.. do you think its a good idea? any ideas

 

[luvsJack]

Has she thought about applying for help to pay for child care?

There is a program that will pay for child care as long as the parent works at least X# of hours a week.

Here it is applied for at a place called The District and it is paid through PRVO. No idea what it would be called in other areas. But it pays for in home sitters too.

She may have to have a regular sitter/caregiver for every night she works but that may work better anyway than depending on him.

 

[caitlinsmom]

Maybe she should consider talking to her lawyer about an agreement where if ex-h cancels on his days he has to pay for a sitter. Trying to take his daughter away from him in order to try and get more money is a bit over the top, don't you think?

 

[deserrai]

I think all state laws are different regarding child custody and child support, but maybe she could get some sort of agreement in which he has to find child care if he can't take the child? I will never understand why taking care of your child is "optional" for some parents.

 

[luvmy3]

Maybe she should consider talking to her lawyer about an agreement where if ex-h cancels on his days he has to pay for a sitter. Trying to take his daughter away from him in order to try and get more money is a bit over the top, don't you think?

Not when he's being an irresponsible ***.

If his issues pop up when his dd is supposed to be with him, they are his responsibility to fix. He needs to find a sitter, and he needs to pay for one.
If he wants the OP to do that, then there is no reason he should have any legal custody of his child. That doesn't mean the OP should keep him from her, it just means that legally she is the responsible one.

 

[NHdisneylover]

I think all state laws are different regarding child custody and child support, but maybe she could get some sort of agreement in which he has to find child care if he can't take the child? I will never understand why taking care of your child is "optional" for some parents.

I agree with this course of action--and feel just like the bolded. It seems to me that when he has custody of their child then he has to be responsible for her--including lining up and paying for alternate care if he is not able to provide it personally. Surely that could be put into writing and made legally binding

 

[cabanafrau]

She does need to get some things clarfied legally regarding his responsibilities to either care for his child per their agreement, find child care to cover his time or cover the expense of the childcare arranged by mom. Approaching the court with the attitude of "removing his custody" is highly unlikely at this point. That could prove valid up the road if he continually shirks his parenting duties, but generally what happens is the child becomes old enough to be a bit more self-sufficient and the parent doesn't need to be so "on the job" during their parenting time or doesn't require childcare if they don't want to be present during their parenting time.

Best bet at this point is approach the court or friend of court seeking to enforce parenting time or require adequate notice and financial coverage for childcare expenses.

 

[horseshowmom]

I would definitely ask for full custody and support. I don't think it's a bad idea to ask for additional money for the days he doesn't show up, and she has to pay child care for those days. I don't know if they'll give it to her or not if she gets full custody, and she may have a hard time getting it out of him even if they do award that in the decree, but it can't hurt to ask.

 

[luvsJack]

OP, in your post you first say that she has custody and he gets the child on certain days. Then later you say she is thinking of full custody.

Does she have custody and he has visitation or do they split custody?

If she already has full custody, taking away his visitation isn't necessarily going to up her child support. Maybe she ask the court for payment of child care.

Does he pay his child support now? If she is having trouble getting it from him, raising the amount is not going to make it easier.

I wouldn't go the route of forcing him to find child care during his time with the child unless she trusts him to find someone reliable.

 

[mickeyboat]

I seriously doubt a court would take away custody of a child from its father because he fails to arrange for care when he is unable or unwilling to care for his child during his visitation.

The mother is between a rock and a hard place. I don't think spending money to have the court order modified and enforced is going to change the situation. And what if the father arranges for care that the mother does not agree with? She will have little recourse.

Personally, if I was this mother, I would continue to work with my ex. Make sure he knows I am happy to care for my DD if I am available. But also make sure he knows the names of a couple of people I trust who can care for my child with little notice. Make sure he knows that he is responsible to pay for this care.

 

[luvmy3]

OP, in your post you first say that she has custody and he gets the child on certain days. Then later you say she is thinking of full custody.

Does she have custody and he has visitation or do they split custody?

If she already has full custody, taking away his visitation isn't necessarily going to up her child support. Maybe she ask the court for payment of child care.
Does he pay his child support now? If she is having trouble getting it from him, raising the amount is not going to make it easier.

I wouldn't go the route of forcing him to find child care during his time with the child unless she trusts him to find someone reliable.

Why is this being put on the mother though, if it is during his time?
What happens when the mom cant find a sitter and has to keep calling into work? I doubt the ex will be supporting her.
This sounds like an example where the dad doesn't want any of the real responsibility of child raising. Finding sitters, paying for them, missing work, rearranging your schedule etc is all part of being a parent. He needs to step up and do it.
(I say all this under the assumption that they have joint custody). If she has full and he just has visitation, then I think they only thing she can do is ask for more support to cover the days he cant take her.

 

[mickeyboat]

Why is this being put on the mother though, if it is during his time?
What happens when the mom cant find a sitter and has to keep calling into work? I doubt the ex will be supporting her.
This sounds like an example where the dad doesn't want any of the real responsibility of child raising. Finding sitters, paying for them, missing work, rearranging your schedule etc is all part of being a parent. He needs to step up and do it.
(I say all this under the assumption that they have joint custody). If she has full and he just has visitation, then I think they only thing she can do is ask for more support to cover the days he cant take her.

I agree with you that it is the father's responsibilty, but as a practical matter, he is not doing it. The mother is not going to leave her child without care, so she has no choice but to make arrangements.

 

[luvmy3]

I agree with you that it is the father's responsibilty, but as a practical matter, he is not doing it. The mother is not going to leave her child without care, so she has no choice but to make arrangements.

I understand, which is why instead of just asking for more money, she should be seeking full custody. He isn't fulfilling his responsibilities.
If she does have full custody then her hands are tied. It just stinks to see situations like this.

 

[luvsJack]

Why is this being put on the mother though, if it is during his time?
What happens when the mom cant find a sitter and has to keep calling into work? I doubt the ex will be supporting her.
This sounds like an example where the dad doesn't want any of the real responsibility of child raising. Finding sitters, paying for them, missing work, rearranging your schedule etc is all part of being a parent. He needs to step up and do it.
(I say all this under the assumption that they have joint custody). If she has full and he just has visitation, then I think they only thing she can do is ask for more support to cover the days he cant take her.

If the court says that he is required to pay for child care, then its not on her. he will be paying it.

What happens when dad finds a sitter that mom doesn't want taking care of her child? She won't be able to control that.

In an ideal world, your assumptions would be great; but its not. Everyone's situation, whether married or not, does not always allow them to miss work or rearrange a schedule. Not everyone is able to find a trustworthy person to leave their child with nor do both parents always agree on who is trustworthy for their child.

Additionally, it may not be so easy to just ask for full custody (if that is not what she has). Judges don't like to take children away from their parents.

 

[luvmy3]

If the court says that he is required to pay for child care, then its not on her. he will be paying it.

What happens when dad finds a sitter that mom doesn't want taking care of her child? She won't be able to control that.

In an ideal world, your assumptions would be great; but its not. Everyone's situation, whether married or not, does not always allow them to miss work or rearrange a schedule. Not everyone is able to find a trustworthy person to leave their child with nor do both parents always agree on who is trustworthy for their child.

I understand all that, and I know from your previous post you have a situation that is similar so your opinion is probably a bit biased.

Assuming he has joint custody and the arrangement is that he has the child from Wednesday to Friday, he is responsible for everything during that time. If his choice of sitter is not good enough for the ex-wife, that is a separate issue. You could go back and forth with all kinds of stuff, what if he feed the dd pizza and the mom doesn't want to, that isn't the point. The point is that when its his time with the dd, he is responsible for her care, and as it stands, he isn't doing that.

 

[cabanafrau]

Keep in mind that there is legal custody, which means the authority to make medical, educational and other decisions about a child and physical custody, which means whom a child resides with. In general the prevailing attitudes in the US today call for joint legal and physical custody. If cooperation is a struggle there may be an order of full legal to one parent with joint physical shared custody between both, even though a child in practice resides with one parent and "visits" the other. Courts do not like to give full legal and physical custody solely to one parent.

If there are difficulties in cooperation it will indeed be best if this mother works with the court to have a court-ordered arrangement covering the logistics and financial aspects of this situation. Doesn't mean the father will follow it, but it does give mom a stronger position to fight from if things get even more difficult up the road.

 

[cabanafrau]

I understand all that, and I know from your previous post you have a situation that is similar so your opinion is probably a bit biased.

Assuming he has joint custody and the arrangement is that he has the child from Wednesday to Friday, he is responsible for everything during that time. If his choice of sitter is not good enough for the ex-wife, that is a separate issue. You could go back and forth with all kinds of stuff, what if he feed the dd pizza and the mom doesn't want to, that isn't the point. The point is that when its his time with the dd, he is responsible for her care, and as it stands, he isn't doing that.

Courts see these situations all the time -- and despite how it may appear to observers or even involved parties aren't oblivious to the slackers. The mother in this situation may be able to convince the court that the selection of childcare provider be left in her hands, with dad covering any costs associated with his parenting time.

As far as expecting the court to rule on every aspect of a child's life, yep, those battles happen, too. Those battling warrior parents usually back away quick when they realize just how micromanaged they will find themselves if they pursue that route.

 

[luvmy3]

Courts see these situations all the time -- and despite how it may appear to observers or even involved parties aren't oblivious to the slackers. The mother in this situation may be able to convince the court that the selection of childcare provider be left in her hands, with dad covering any costs associated with his parenting time.

As far as expecting the court to rule on every aspect of a child's life, yep, those battles happen, too. Those battling warrior parents usually back away quick when they realize just how micromanaged they will find themselves if they pursue that route.

Well for the OP's friends sake, I hope if she does go to court, whatever is decided benefits her, since she is the one being put out in this situation.

 

[luvsJack]

I understand all that, and I know from your previous post you have a situation that is similar so your opinion is probably a bit biased.

Assuming he has joint custody and the arrangement is that he has the child from Wednesday to Friday, he is responsible for everything during that time. If his choice of sitter is not good enough for the ex-wife, that is a separate issue. You could go back and forth with all kinds of stuff, what if he feed the dd pizza and the mom doesn't want to, that isn't the point. The point is that when its his time with the dd, he is responsible for her care, and as it stands, he isn't doing that.

Sorry, but feeding them pizza and not finding trustworthy child support are on different ends of the spectrum. If he doesn't find trustworthy child care, the child could be put in danger. A bit different, don't you think? The point in this particular situation should be to find the best care for the child.

Paying for the child care that she finds would fill his responsibility and make it so that she could use the child care that she is already having to use.

You know, until you actually live a situation, you can make assumption of how it "should" be but you really don't understand. But when you live it, you understand that it can't always be the way someone wants it to be. You can say all day long that it should be "this" way or "that" way. But in real life with real people and real situations, it can't always be your ideal way.

My situation and this one are different and I won't go into what is happening now as I will just be accused of downing the poor little single mom and we won't go there; but it sounds like in the OP's situation the mom is trying to work and support her child. And the two parents need to figure out how they can do this and not put the mom in a bind when she is working. Either together or through the court systems.

And again, if it was me; I would apply for govt. assistance to pay for child care and put the child with someone who can keep her every night that she works. He could then take the child to and from that sitter during his time to have her. If this can be solved without using the court system, it is much easier.

 

[luvmy3]

Sorry, but feeding them pizza and not finding trustworthy child support are on different ends of the spectrum. If he doesn't find trustworthy child care, the child could be put in danger. A bit different, don't you think? The point in this particular situation should be to find the best care for the child.

Paying for the child care that she finds would fill his responsibility and make it so that she could use the child care that she is already having to use.

You know, until you actually live a situation, you can make assumption of how it "should" be but you really don't understand. But when you live it, you understand that it can't always be the way someone wants it to be. You can say all day long that it should be "this" way or "that" way. But in real life with real people and real situations, it can't always be your ideal way.

My situation and this one are different and I won't go into what is happening now as I will just be accused of downing the poor little single mom and we won't go there; but it sounds like in the OP's situation the mom is trying to work and support her child. And the two parents need to figure out how they can do this and not put the mom in a bind when she is working. Either together or through the court systems.

And again, if it was me; I would apply for govt. assistance to pay for child care and put the child with someone who can keep her every night that she works. He could then take the child to and from that sitter during his time to have her. If this can be solved without using the court system, it is much easier.

You missed the point entirely. I wasn't comparing eating pizza and childcare but like the pp said, even things like that are sometimes settled in court. The ex is perfectly capable of addressing those concerns with the courts if needed, however that isn't the reason for this discussion. The reason for this thread is that the dad is flaking out on his responsibilities.
The point was that the child is the dad's responsibility during his time, its his responsibility to make childcare arrangements, not just spring it on the ex. Much like the point being made about your own situation..............
The OP's friend needs to do what she can to make sure he steps up, and that just may be getting sole custody.
(But as I have said, if she already has it, her hands are tied).