Chicago Cubs fans - Rebuilding Year 2023

[Truth777]

Notwithstanding Bryant and Harper being friends, that is NOT a good trade in my book. I think Harper is an arrogant BLEEP.
Pretty bad when I have to bleep my own post.

Wait are you saying JHey > Harper?

 

[FINFAN]

Couple thoughts:

1) Dodgers won't sign Jake. They are trying to get under the luxury tax so they can make a run at Harper next offseason.
2) I'm not opposed to the Cubs trading JHey. If they're able to do that, I have a good feeling about possibly getting Harper in 2019. He and Bryant are very good friends.

Welcome Truth777

The Dodger's can have Harper, his injuries and his flow flip. I am aware he an KB are friends ,(and Rizzo joining in) the one flaw KB has I guess. KB will also be coughing up some of his own $$$ if he wants his buddy. Lots of upcoming contracts to be paid, Harper and his ego are far from needed.

The trade the Cubs are rumoring is JHey for Jeff Samardzija and CLoser Melancon. Did our time with the Shark..pass, and unless Melancon has some miraculous turn around from his injury, pass again. If we jave to lose JHey, I'll take one Otanii please. Our pitcher's can do their thing because they know they have JHey out there.

 

[FINFAN]

Wait are you saying JHey > Harper?

not sure of Doc is, but I am. All day, every day. JHey makes Harpers fielding look like TBall, Not to mention his leadership and the stellar role model he is. The Cubs are a young team and I don't see him as a positive addition to the Cubs

 

[Truth777]

not sure of Doc is, but I am. All day, every day. JHey makes Harpers fielding look like TBall, Not to mention his leadership and the stellar role model he is. The Cubs are a young team and I don't see him as a positive addition to the Cubs

Respect your opinion but there isn't a single executive in MLB who would agree. Cubs are going to have to get a LOT better if they hope to win another championship before their window closes.

 

[robinb]

Respect your opinion but there isn't a single executive in MLB who would agree. Cubs are going to have to get a LOT better if they hope to win another championship before their window closes.

Paco, is that you?

 

[Truth777]

Paco, is that you?

huh

 

[FINFAN]

lol....

Paco, is that you?

pretty sure Paco has never respected my opinion tho

 

[FINFAN]

Respect your opinion but there isn't a single executive in MLB who would agree. Cubs are going to have to get a LOT better if they hope to win another championship before their window closes.

With all due respect right back atcha, a team that has been in the playoffs 3 years in a row with a WS Championship in the middle is ahead of their window. Pitching and bp are the priorities that the FO has known would need to be addressed. The FA market is slim pickin's this year but next year look pretty darn good for shopping. Harper is not the answer to another Championship....or to the Cubs improving. Not a single MLB suit can guarantee he is. Jhey , however...has already done that.

 

[docsoliday1]

Wait are you saying JHey > Harper?

I think as a player, JHEY brings more value to the table. I'm not sure I agree with how high his salary is (sorry Fin), but his 5th GG speaks volumes. His hitting improved this year, he plays smart, doesn't get into fights and he's a good veteran influence on the younger guys.

Side by side (sorry, the formatting is lousy on here)
Heyward Harper
GG Yes NO
Hitting Yes Yes
Smart Yes NO
Fights No YES
veteran Yes NO (spoiled rotten brat is what I consider him)

If you're looking strictly at batting stats, yes, I'm sure every MLB executive would agree he's less than Harper. As an all around player and good person/influence, not at all close.

 

[docsoliday1]

Paco, is that you?

That was my thought too.

 

[FINFAN]

I think as a player, JHEY brings more value to the table. I'm not sure I agree with how high his salary is (sorry Fin), but his 5th GG speaks volumes. His hitting improved this year, he plays smart, doesn't get into fights and he's a good veteran influence on the younger guys.

Side by side (sorry, the formatting is lousy on here)
Heyward Harper
GG Yes NO
Hitting Yes Yes
Smart Yes NO
Fights No YES
veteran Yes NO (spoiled rotten brat is what I consider him)

If you're looking strictly at batting stats, yes, I'm sure every MLB executive would agree he's less than Harper. As an all around player and good person/influence, not at all close.

You forgot
Legend in their own mind
HARPER, yes ~ JHey, no

See, you have to give props to JHey and his agent for that salary. I'm not sure why everyone holds it against JHey when Theo and Co are the ones who agreed to it. JHey's batting avg at time of signing not that much higher than last season. Cubs *might* want ot have Chili work with our offense some( looking at you Riz, Zobie, Javy, Jhey, KB, Schwarb's )before trading off the guy who has kept the team alive with his defense. When you look at what Harper is going to want, JHey is an absolute bargain and he WANTS to be Cub (unlike Zamardzija) and Harper trolling just to troll with all his Cub wannabe crap. Good heaven's , if Theo wants to get out from under JHeys contract ,I'd put KB in RF before signing Harper and get another 3rd basemen for half of what Harper wants

 

[docsoliday1]

You forgot
Legend in their own mind
HARPER, yes ~ JHey, no

Well, I kinda covered that with the spoiled rotten brat, but you're correct...that should be its own line item.

See, you have to give props to JHey and his agent for that salary. I'm not sure why everyone holds it against JHey when Theo and Co are the ones who agreed to it. When you look at what Harper is going to want, JHey is an absolute bargain and he WANTS to be Cub (unlike Zamardzija) and Harper trolling just to troll with all his Cub wannabe crap.

I don't hold it against him per se, just surprised it's that much. Given the 5th GG and considering the number of runs that didn't happen due to his glove, he's a valuable player, no debating...just not sure if I could've coughed up that much money (but then I'd have to dream of that much to begin with )

 

[FINFAN]

Well, I kinda covered that with the spoiled rotten brat, but you're correct...that should be its own line item.


I don't hold it against him per se, just surprised it's that much. Given the 5th GG and considering the number of runs that didn't happen due to his glove, he's a valuable player, no debating...just not sure if I could've coughed up that much money (but then I'd have to dream of that much to begin with )

People think Jhey's contract is an albatross? Everyone on the Harper train is going to be twice as shell shocked given his numbers are more than double JHey's and there is no way on earth Harper's offense is worth that combined with the downgrade in defense.

 

[docsoliday1]

People think Jhey's contract is an albatross? Everyone on the Harper train is going to be twice as shell shocked given his numbers are more than double JHey's and there is no way on earth Harper's offense is worth that combined with the downgrade in defense.

To paraphrase Grue from Despicable me 2...

No, no, no, get off of that train

 

[FINFAN]

To paraphrase Grue from Despicable me 2...

No, no, no, get off of that train

I have faith Theo isn't going after a show pony just to bring in $ from fan's.. He get the whole clubhouse personality, circle of trust, quality huma being aspect. These guys are together a LONG time every season and guys that don't fit in can be the ruination.

 

[Truth777]

If Heyward would have produced in his 2 years with the Cubs like he did in St Louis, you all would have a point that there is no need to make a change. But that's not the case, he's not anywhere near what he produced.

Prior to the joining the Cubs, in his 3 seasons prior, his fWar was 3.4, 5.1, and 6.1 respectively. Since joining the Cubs, it was 1.5 and 0.9. That is basically falling off the cliff.

Last 2 season's fWar for Haper was 3.5 and 4.8. Analysis can stop here, Harper is currently the much, much better player.

 

[docsoliday1]

If Heyward would have produced in his 2 years with the Cubs like he did in St Louis, you all would have a point that there is no need to make a change. But that's not the case, he's not anywhere near what he produced.

Prior to the joining the Cubs, in his 3 seasons prior, his fWar was 3.4, 5.1, and 6.1 respectively. Since joining the Cubs, it was 1.5 and 0.9. That is basically falling off the cliff.

Last 2 season's fWar for Haper was 3.5 and 4.8. Analysis can stop here, Harper is currently the much, much better player.

Some may disagree (so be it)....
Looking purely at one number is EXACTLY what screws over most employees in a company. When the bean counters get involved and decisions are made purely on numbers, things blow up.

If you want to look only at the fwar, go for it. For me and my Cubbies (and I hope those making decisions in the Cubs clubhouse), there's WAY more to defining a GOOD (or "better") player.

If you want to stop your analysis there, okay, but many other factors for me.

Do you love tacos?

 

[FINFAN]

If Heyward would have produced in his 2 years with the Cubs like he did in St Louis, you all would have a point that there is no need to make a change. But that's not the case, he's not anywhere near what he produced.

Prior to the joining the Cubs, in his 3 seasons prior, his fWar was 3.4, 5.1, and 6.1 respectively. Since joining the Cubs, it was 1.5 and 0.9. That is basically falling off the cliff.

Last 2 season's fWar for Haper was 3.5 and 4.8. Analysis can stop here, Harper is currently the much, much better player.

Unfortunately pointing the finger only at JHey's offense is a massive mistake.(he was also injured last season) Practically the entire offense was lousy in timely hitting this past season and the ever changing lineup sure didn't help. The only thing consistent was their inconsistencey. Their defense fell as well with the EXCEPTION of JHey. Pitcher's relax knowing JHey is out there, allowing them to do their thing. Any one of them would tell you they will take that over him being lesser at the plate than 2 years ago. Pitching also gave up the long ball this year a lot. Guess that is because of JHey's drop at the plate and Harper can fix that? Your stats arguement would also have Schwarber, Zobrist, Javy, Addie, on the block ~which any of them could be, but for pitching, not for another record contract for a single player restricting any future moves. If Harper wants to come over for 1/4 of his touted contract numbers and play LF part time, maybe.

 

[FINFAN]

Some may disagree (so be it)....
Looking purely at one number is EXACTLY what screws over most employees in a company. When the bean counters get involved and decisions are made purely on numbers, things blow up.

If you want to look only at the fwar, go for it. For me and my Cubbies (and I hope those making decisions in the Cubs clubhouse), there's WAY more to defining a GOOD (or "better") player.

If you want to stop your analysis there, okay, but many other factors for me.

Do you love tacos?

exactly. Joe preaches it constantly that these are human beings and it gets lost in the mix all too often. A huge part of the World Series Championship was the way this team gelled together outside of their technical athletic talent.

 

[FINFAN]

For those of us who appreciate JHeys abilities~Please vote for him
http://www.rawlings.com/category-landing-pages/gold-glove-platinum-page.html?sf75181633=1