Checked out early - Parks too crowded.

[ALDSMD]

I'm happy to share my experiences. I would agree with most of the advice already given. We like to have a solid plan when we go during busy times but that plan always includes being flexible and having backup plans.

We arrived on the Saturday before Thanksgiving in the evening and spent time at our resort. We spent Sunday at AK and had an awesome day. I thought the crowds were great and we did everything we wanted to do.

We spent the next two days offsite with family which wasn't good touring strategy because I'm sure those were lower crowds. However, we had a great time with family.

We went back on Wednesday and toured DHS. I thought the crowds were fine and we had one of the best days we have ever had at DHS. We really enjoyed the Star Wars experiences which were new to us and loved the Jingle Bell Jingle Bam fireworks.

We were crazy and spent Thanksgiving in the MK. I wouldn't necessarily recommend it but we wanted to do be in MK and were prepared for high crowds. We had Thanksgiving dinner at Be Our Guest and it was amazing! They had turkey dinner available, but all of the adults went with the steak and were not disappointed. Someone on the Dis recommended to me to not try to have a traditional turkey dinner as it might not live up to a home cooked dinner. I'm glad I followed their advice and went with the steak!

Honestly, the crowds bothered me more on Black Friday at MK then they did on Thanksgiving. We did fine both days but we are pretty strategic. We use touring plans and the easywdw cheat sheets to guide us in the timing of our attractions. I highly recommend the Lines app which in our experience was more accurate than Disney's wait times. Using this, we could see which attractions had shorter lines than what was being posted.

We spent Saturday after Thanksgiving at EP and had the best day I have had at EP for awhile. The holiday storytellers were there for the holiday season and we enjoyed seeing them.

We like to schedule our FP between 11:00-3:00-ish. I think Rope Drop or late nights is a must when it gets crowded. We like to do both usually starting with one early in the week and using a rest day to switch to the other later in the week. I think most people recommend AK as the best park for Thanksgiving Day.

Sorry for the long post. Hope that helps!

Thank you so much for your post!!! I really appreciate all your suggestions and I will look for the lines app and at easywdw. I'm not actually sure what a touring plan is and if it adjusts to crowd levels though. Is it something on an app or just something you make up? Thanks again.

 

[mickeyluv'r]

Please don't say this. I have said it many times too and people say I was lying. POR ruined my onsite stays. We lost an entire day of vacation because of the POR buses. We stopped using them and walked to/from POFQ.

I too have often been accused of lying when it comes to posting how long it - actually - takes us to get around WDW, but I actually do keep track of the times. I suspect many folks post how long the wait felt to them, or they only time a portion of the whole. I think a big factor is that many people are emotionally attached to the idea that vacation = pure fun time.

They disregard time spent on non-fun morsels, like rest-room lines, or the walk between their hotel room door to the nearest elevator, bus stop, and even the food court.

Over my time here, I've discovered that the distance between MK resort bus pads and the MK metal detectors just doesn't exist for many DISers!

IMO, that is the true genius of the refillable mugs! At WDW, time= money. It can cost quite a bit of lost time to drop your mugs off in your room after a resort food court breakfast, but people don't stop to factor that when they decide to buy the mugs. They only consider the price of sodas.

Nevermind that the mugs also = a way to lure them back to the hotel food court later in the day. Dinner back at the hotel = FREE soda, not less park time!

Just as people often completely forget to factor in the cost of wear/tear on their car (over long drives) when comparing flying to driving costs. They often ONLY factor gas/tolls, completely forgetting to factor the average life span of a car (150,000miles), against the average costs of a car/truck (about $33,500, plus maintenance expenses). The actual cost to drive a car in 2016 was 57 cents per mile.(though that includes insurance, which is mostly a fixed cost)

So I venture to think the OP of this thread was up against these factors as well.

 

[mickeyluv'r]

Your post made me feel better about Free Dining. I am on the fench about dining for our Sept trip this year.. past 5 years we did Free Dining.. The HOURS and DAYS , WEEKS and MONTHS planning ADRS, then waiting for ACTUAL park hours to come out and then re-do ADRS.... and then the TIME "wasted" for an ADR. Sure we love the TS dining we did, but this year I have BC booked, no meal... In a way I am missing the dining.. as with OOP I am NOT paying 250 for our family's traditional CM's breakfast. I figure the 3 hours at Chef Mickeys we would spend we can use at the parks.

Shhh.... this is how we came to discover club level. I feel like I've tried every option over the years.

Take breakfast. We've tried everything from bringing food in our luggage (often garbage like pop tarts),
to grocery store runs (Cooking + washing dishes is so much fun!)
to buffets,
to quick serve (not always so quick)

For a few years, the cost of CL wasn't all that much more than non-CL, but sadly the price has climbed back up to sky-high crazy at the WDW hotels.

Oh, well. I'm not sure I can handle going back to smooshed pop tarts.

but the lounge breakfasts were oh so lovely while they lasted.

 

[mousefan73]

Shhh.... this is how we came to discover club level. I feel like I've tried every option over the years.

Take breakfast. We've tried everything from bringing food in our luggage (often garbage like pop tarts),
to grocery store runs (Cooking + washing dishes is so much fun!)
to buffets,
to quick serve (not always so quick)

For a few years, the cost of CL wasn't all that much more than non-CL, but sadly the price has climbed back up to sky-high crazy at the WDW hotels.

Oh, well. I'm not sure I can handle going back to smooshed pop tarts.

but the lounge breakfasts were oh so lovely while they lasted.

I did look into CL for our trip, just for your reasons!! but it was I believe 800 dollar difference for 7 nights.. We are 2 kids and adults.. and only one drinks alchol.. now if my DH iso of my Mom were with, then it might work out as 4 beers a day along is 40 some bucks.. but I really would have like it, but as we are paying OOp anyways for food another 800 for breakfast was too much.

 

[ckb_nc]

This thread had me thinking - Disney is a business, and its goal is to maximize the return on investment. WDW is an excellent case study of a company actively working to fill in the empty spaces. Anyone can make money at Christmas, during the summer at this game. Disney has gradually in the last 15 years being working hard (see the runDisney events) to create less dead space. And most people are either seeking an escape from the day-today craziness and feeling comfortable with the economy.

As a shareholder, Disney is doing the right thing. As a park goer, it is hard to know when is best but it is still enjoyable. I sill remember the months after 9/11 when the parks were empty

 

[eastendlights]

I was there last week, and I think we must have also been on your cruise the three days prior to the Spring Break Melee! We also stayed at AKL (which was have done in the past). It was overwhelming, buses were very slow, parks were packed, lines to order at QS were easily 30-45 minutes, and that was at 1:30pm or later (not "prime lunch" time). We had ADRs, FP+ etc, but it was still more challenging than I expected.

Overall, I left there feeling that Disney greed was getting the better of them. I felt that Disney was not at all upset that everything felt out of control to the average, well-planned guest because this chaos would just drive us all to use the upcharge-services.

Don't like how slow the buses are coming: buy upgraded Express Transportation from Disney (or pay for an Uber, which we did, to make sure we made our 1900 PF ADR on time)
Don't like waiting in line: use FP+ and get prepared to possibly pay for that (look at what they are proposing at DLR for monetizing "MaxxPass" which is essentially FP+ while in the parks)
Don't like only having 3 pre-booked FP+ and VERY limited 4th FP: Pay for a VIP group tour or a VIP personal guide to get FP on many/all the rides (we did a personal VIP guide for our family 2 years ago, and did it again this trip for a day; it is very $$$ and I cringe just thinking about it, but we have very limited time in the parks and I am self-employed so time "off" means I make no money, so I have to minimize time away)
Don't like waiting at QS: Make an ADR and pay Disney prices, but guess what, you still have to wait for your "reservation"...
Don't want to wait in long bag check and security lines: buy upgraded Express Transportation and bypass this
Don't like booking FP+ 30 days in advance: book on-site hotels at 4x or more off-site rates and book FP+ at 60 days
Don't like lining up 1-2 hours prior to fireworks or nighttime entertainment to get a good view: buy upgraded viewing via Dessert Parties, or Dining options (we did the Galactic Nights Dessert party this time and LOVED it, but it's a significant upcharge...)

I really feel that the more crowded and crazy it is, the happier Disney execs are because not only are they raking in money on tickets and hotels, the chaos is driving those same guests to spend even more to "upgrade" their experience to something reasonable, and so Disney makes even more money. I feel Disney charges high rates (though supported by the "market" because they keep selling the tickets to thousands, including us) for tickets and then charges high rates to stay onsite. I think the return on that investment to the individual is diminishing, at least for me. If you want the same Disney experience you used to get (and that was at a lower price), you need to pay today's prices and then even more money to "upgrade" your experience to overcome the hurdles that Disney won't manage. Of course, the only way this gets corrected is if people stop spending their hard-earned money and time off at Disney. Then prices would come down or service levels would increase due to lower crowds, and crowds would go back up again! UGH.

I do not expect walk-on rides, buses waiting at my arrival at the bus stop, or no lines for QS. I do expect Disney to use their vast pool of data (they know exactly how many people have entered each park each day, know where you are using your FP, know where you plan to eat your ADR, when you re-entered your resort room) to make things run more smoothly. If they continue to allow so many people into the parks without expanding offerings such as rides/shows/entertainment, it will get worse. Think about how long it has been since EPCOT got a new ride? It literally has about 4 rides that most people want to ride. I understand that there are many other things to do in EPCOT, but the bottom line is most people come to ride at least some rides. And having essentially 4 main rides for the entire park is ludicrous. No wonder the waits were greater than 200+ minutes at times like Spring Break. Where are you going to put all those people if you only have 4 main rides? Yes they are expanding HS and AK, but the pace is glacial. It won't take some of the burden off the existing rides for years, and if crowds increase with the opening of the new lands, we will be back to square one or worse, for lines and crowds.

We are making our next trip to DLR, and I will see how that goes in comparison. As OP said, it is going to take a while for the buyer's remorse to fade after this trip, for me. I am speaking with my wallet, and I won't pay to have that kind of experience again. Maybe I am a wimp compared to many on these boards who always travel in crowd level 10 and have a stupendous time. It was simply too expensive for the return on investment for me. I don't mind getting stepped on and waiting in tremendous lines when I am at a FREE outdoor concert, for example, because it is FREE. But when I have paid for PH tickets, paid to fly in, paid to stay on-site Deluxe, I have a different expectation of the experience.

On the positive side, our girls did have a great time this trip Pin Trading with CMs. We used some of our time to do this since the rides were nearly impossible, and they enjoyed quite a bit!

Absolutely all of the above. Agree completely. There is a reason why the parks are understaffed and it is not just to save money. It is also to increase the need for all of the upcharges that are being introduced. Disney did not spend a billion dollars on MM+ and MB's to make the park experience more efficient or better for guests. They did it so they could use the data they way they are using it now. All of the talk about attendance being down while profits per guest are up and yet everywhere there are reports of crowds and long lines pretty much all year long. It is not a coincidence.

 

[BigredNole]

I sill remember the months after 9/11 when the parks were empty

Same here. We had our honeymoon 2 months after 9/11. The parks were basically empty over Thanksgiving. Imagine a crowd level 1 or 2 now. That is how it was for us. Only issue we had is the lost our fully paid reservation. They fixed it though but we lost our monorail resort.

 

[TreyQ3]

We are making our next trip to DLR, and I will see how that goes in comparison. As OP said, it is going to take a while for the buyer's remorse to fade after this trip, for me. I am speaking with my wallet, and I won't pay to have that kind of experience again. Maybe I am a wimp compared to many on these boards who always travel in crowd level 10 and have a stupendous time. It was simply too expensive for the return on investment for me. I don't mind getting stepped on and waiting in tremendous lines when I am at a FREE outdoor concert, for example, because it is FREE. But when I have paid for PH tickets, paid to fly in, paid to stay on-site Deluxe, I have a different expectation of the experience.

We were at DLR last Labor Day for the Disneyland 1/2 Marathon. I feel the crowds were very similar to last week. We stayed on property and took advantage of the early hours. Rope drop is your friend at both DLR & WDW. Even during the week, the crowds at DLR started pouring in around lunch. And the wait times got long during the afternoon. The standby wait time for Radiator Springs in the afternoon is the same as any E ticket ride in WDW.

Believe it or not, I was actually missing FP+. Yes, DLR has the old paper FP but not for all of the rides. We were running back and forth getting a couple of FP but they started running out early afternoon. The ability to book your 4th and beyond FP+ on the MDE app is a huge perk for WDW.

The compactness of DLR and CA, mild temps and low humidity are things that DLR will always have over WDW. We decided that we like DLR better but will continue to go to WDW since it is closer and we are DVC members.

I hope you have a better time at DLR. Let us know how it goes.

 

[mickeyluv'r]

Absolutely all of the above. Agree completely. There is a reason why the parks are understaffed and it is not just to save money. It is also to increase the need for all of the upcharges that are being introduced. Disney did not spend a billion dollars on MM+ and MB's to make the park experience more efficient or better for guests. They did it so they could use the data they way they are using it now. All of the talk about attendance being down while profits per guest are up and yet everywhere there are reports of crowds and long lines pretty much all year long. It is not a coincidence.

I could not agree more!

It isn't just all the things you list, it is also the way they added things the no-show ADR fee, and taking away no-expire tickets.

We're juicy oranges waiting to be squeezed of every last drop!

 

[ckb_nc]

Same here. We had our honeymoon 2 months after 9/11. The parks were basically empty over Thanksgiving. Imagine a crowd level 1 or 2 now. That is how it was for us. Only issue we had is the lost our fully paid reservation. They fixed it though but we lost our monorail resort.

I remember going Feb after 9/11 -a rather dead time anyways staying off property and it was just empty. People forget how hard of a time the travel industry had back in the day

We were at DLR last Labor Day for the Disneyland 1/2 Marathon. I feel the crowds were very similar to last week. We stayed on property and took advantage of the early hours. Rope drop is your friend at both DLR & WDW. Even during the week, the crowds at DLR started pouring in around lunch. And the wait times got long during the afternoon. The standby wait time for Radiator Springs in the afternoon is the same as any E ticket ride in WDW.

Believe it or not, I was actually missing FP+. Yes, DLR has the old paper FP but not for all of the rides. We were running back and forth getting a couple of FP but they started running out early afternoon. The ability to book your 4th and beyond FP+ on the MDE app is a huge perk for WDW.

The compactness of DLR and CA, mild temps and low humidity are things that DLR will always have over WDW. We decided that we like DLR better but will continue to go to WDW since it is closer and we are DVC members.

I hope you have a better time at DLR. Let us know how it goes.

We were there Memorial Day weekend at DLR; using the old FP system took some thinking. I liked DLR and staying at Grand Californian was a true trip maker (plug DVC). Rope drop was a key and the closeness of the two parks was aswesome. Man I would love Blue Bayou at WDW. Teh food at Disneyland is really diverse and quite good; the beignets are pretty good ones,'

Ironically Radiator Springs while so well done did not really do anything for us, and we to a person prefer the Frozen show at HS over the brand new (we saw the second show ever) Frozen musical at DCA. DLR was a great deal of fun with a completely different vibe than WDW - really is so different park systems with some shared ride concepts.

 

[maxiesmom]

I could not agree more!

It isn't just all the things you list, it is also the way they added things the no-show ADR fee, and taking away no-expire tickets.

We're juicy oranges waiting to be squeezed of every last drop!

I'm a fan of the no show fee. It has made getting ADRs easier. No money is being squeezed from you unless you don't show up or call and cancel.

 

[JennLTX]

For the first time ever I would go home if I could get a flight out. I developed pneumonia and can't go out at all. Its miserable.

This lurker (and getting sick while on vacation veteran), would just like to say I am SO sorry.

 

[maxiesmom]

I have to laugh too at anyone who is complaining about Disney not adding rides. You must not be paying any sort of attention if you missed the whole New Fantasyland. If you have missed Pandora and the Rivers of Light. Not to mention the fuss over Frozen Ever After. You know, that new ride Epcot hasn't had.

 

[starjazz]

Believe it or not, I was actually missing FP+. Yes, DLR has the old paper FP but not for all of the rides. We were running back and forth getting a couple of FP but they started running out early afternoon. The ability to book your 4th and beyond FP+ on the MDE app is a huge perk for WDW.

See I disagree (please take no offense, just my opinion coming). Yeah, getting the additional FPs on the App seems like a great idea. BUT, reality was I spent as much if not more time on the app trying to get the extra FPs. Between resetting the size of my group to get the windows lined up, and rechecking because things changed all the time. I would rather have just been the runner, gone to get the FPs, and known right away whether they were available or not. They had a certain amount in that FP- machine, and when they were gone, they were gone. Plus, at least my head wasn't in my phone.

Again, just my take. I do still like FP+ over all, but I don't think its better.....just different, and leaning toward worse overall.

 

[maxiesmom]

I have a hard time believing that some folks never experience any problems anywhere while at Disney and they have a good time no matter what! Unless of course if they are Mary Poppins or Mary Sunshine,LOL! It has been well established from a lot of people on this board that the bus service to and from the resorts are lacking. I have not experienced a 45 min wait but I have experienced 30 min or more waits while watching several empty buses all headed to the same place, this should not happen with a supposedly well oiled machine like Disney. The state of the bathrooms are another frequent source of complaint that I have seen with my own eyes and this is plainly from lack of staff that has been cut to save Disney money! I love Disney too but I believe I see warts and all. Disney's standards have been slipping for awhile, in the same period their prices just keep getting higher. There will always be folks that will continue to pay these prices no matter what because of course Disney can do no wrong. Only when the unhappy guests outweigh the happy guest will Disney do anything about any of these problems!

You see, I don't agree with much of your post. I've had issues at Disney World. More than once. But I think a lot of people expect the bus service to be like a personal bus, they don't expect to have to wait. There is one poster, I wish I could remember who, how put it this way: They arrived at a bus stop, and looked at their watch. Other people came after them, and one person started to loudly complain after a while about how long they were waiting. When the bus arrived they went on and on about how long it was. The poster said the time the people were claiming to have waited was not true at all! They were greatly exaggerating how long the wait was. Maybe on purpose, but maybe not. Maybe it is some sort of "vacation brain" and wait times seem double what they really are.

As far as the bathrooms go, I think much of it is luck. Did you hit the bathroom right before they were cleaned, or right after? Because I can tell you that as recently as October I was hard pressed to be in a bathroom and not find a CM in it. And because of all of the complaints I was looking! I'll maintain too that that one is on us, the guests. Most of us use a toilet multiple times a day. It shouldn't be hard to do without making a mess. It is disgusting how some behave. There shouldn't be a need for constant cleaning if people didn't behave so badly.

 

[Disneylover99]

I have to laugh too at anyone who is complaining about Disney not adding rides. You must not be paying any sort of attention if you missed the whole New Fantasyland. If you have missed Pandora and the Rivers of Light. Not to mention the fuss over Frozen Ever After. You know, that new ride Epcot hasn't had.

Well, to be fair, FEA isn't an addition. It's a replacement......Maelstrom with Anna and Elsa. Epcot also lost Sum of all Thrills, Captain EO and most/all? of the Innoventions buildings in the past year or two.

 

[maxiesmom]

Well, to be fair, FEA isn't an addition. It's a replacement......Maelstrom with Anna and Elsa. Epcot also lost Sum of all Thrills, Captain EO and most/all? of the Innoventions buildings in the past year or two.

To me it is still a new ride.

And the other things, did anyone actually go on/visit them?

I'm not saying Epcot doesn't need work. But yeah, there has been new stuff too, even if has been a bunch of ride overlays.

 

[TreyQ3]

See I disagree (please take no offense, just my opinion coming). Yeah, getting the additional FPs on the App seems like a great idea. BUT, reality was I spent as much if not more time on the app trying to get the extra FPs. Between resetting the size of my group to get the windows lined up, and rechecking because things changed all the time. I would rather have just been the runner, gone to get the FPs, and known right away whether they were available or not. They had a certain amount in that FP- machine, and when they were gone, they were gone. Plus, at least my head wasn't in my phone.

Again, just my take. I do still like FP+ over all, but I don't think its better.....just different, and leaning toward worse overall.

No offence taken! I'm taking too much credit for the ride planning. My wife use to let me think I was in control. Now we have given up and have just let our boys take over.

For this trip our group varied from my family of 5 to 12 with the combinations of the other families of 3 and 4. I think MDE is an ultra easy game for my sons because they were easily managing the situation. We old fart parents were just chasing behind the kids wondering what we were going to do next. Must be a generational thing!

But with the old paper FP at DLR, we were having to think about the return times and see if it conflicted with other plans before we pulled the FP. If it did conflict with our plans, then we were hoofing it across the park to see if a different ride matched. Just being able to see what FP were available on MDE or when a particular ride was available was far more efficient for us. Like you said, just a personal preference.

 

[Disneylover99]

To me it is still a new ride.

And the other things, did anyone actually go on/visit them?

I'm not saying Epcot doesn't need work. But yeah, there has been new stuff too, even if has been a bunch of ride overlays.

Sum of All Thrills was my family's favourite ride.
If they're taking more away then they are adding, I don't blame people who complain.

 

[OhioStateBuckeye]

To me it is still a new ride.

And the other things, did anyone actually go on/visit them?

I'm not saying Epcot doesn't need work. But yeah, there has been new stuff too, even if has been a bunch of ride overlays.

Maelstrom often had a long wait, towards it's last year I think it was rare to find it under 40 minutes.