Changing/adding owners on contracts (including Trusts)….a couple of questions!

[Boardwalk III]

Hi all,

I bought a 2nd DVC contract at VGF this spring after owning at BWV for 20+ years (3 different purchases at BWV - all same use year, and also kept same use year for the VGF contract) . Decided to add one of our grown son’s names onto the new VGF contract as he is a WDW fan and often joins us. Because our sons were children at the time they are not on the Boardwalk contract, thus I now have 2 contract numbers.

Doing some long-term planning & thinking about possibly putting all DVC points under the name of some sort of family trust. Wanted to get the questions below answered if anyone happens to have this information! I’m aware of the thread on Gratuitous Transfers and have that bookmarked (how to add/change names by doing it yourself versus a title company).

But my questions are unrelated to that:

1. My biggest question is whether anyone named on the trust would become legitimate DVC members (blue card, as all our points are direct) . Would likely just be my two sons, although one of them is already a member now having just been added to the new VGF direct contract (150 pts). If I’m not mistaken I’ve read different opinions on this Membership question. And I’m not confident that by calling MS that I’ll get the same answer each time (or the correct answer at all!).

2. Because I added my son’s name onto the VGF contract, I now have two different contract numbers. It works pretty well, but I don’t love that I can’t use all points together at 7 months. If I were to change all of my contracts into the same name, whether it be in a trust or otherwise, might I be able to merge everything back into one contract number? I’m assuming that’s wishful thinking but figured it is worth asking.

3. Anything else I should be thinking about before making this decision? Would obviously need to speak with an attorney on setting up the right type of trust etc.

Many thanks.

 

[Tigger1]

Hoping to read responses to this soon.

 

[RoseGold]

DVC considers trustees blue card members, at least under current rules. That may or may not match whatever you mean by "named on the trust." Trustees can also designate associate members, who can control the account, but aren't blue card. Again, current rules.

You don't have two contract numbers (well, except that all contracts have their own numbers), you have two memberships. You have two memberships because the contracts have different owners. If the trust is the owner, it will have to set up its membership. If it owns more than one contract, those contracts will be within that new membership. If you bought a third contract under the trust (and you were a trustee) you would see three member numbers.

No one knows what the rules will be for Blue cards going forward, DVC could just get rid of them completely.

The other way to do this is an LLC, which is probably what I would do in my state, if I were concerned about Blue Cards. LLCs put anyone on the board in Blue Card, but the board can only do what it is allowed to do. I'm willing to join the board, just throwing that out there.

This needs to be part of your overall estate plan and obviously needs local legal advice.

 

[Boardwalk III]

DVC considers trustees blue card members, at least under current rules. That may or may not match whatever you mean by "named on the trust." Trustees can also designate associate members, who can control the account, but aren't blue card. Again, current rules.

You don't have two contract numbers (well, except that all contracts have their own numbers), you have two memberships. You have two memberships because the contracts have different owners. If the trust is the owner, it will have to set up its membership. If it owns more than one contract, those contracts will be within that new membership. If you bought a third contract under the trust (and you were a trustee) you would see three member numbers.

No one knows what the rules will be for Blue cards going forward, DVC could just get rid of them completely.

The other way to do this is an LLC, which is probably what I would do in my state, if I were concerned about Blue Cards. LLCs put anyone on the board in Blue Card, but the board can only do what it is allowed to do. I'm willing to join the board, just throwing that out there.

This needs to be part of your overall estate plan and obviously needs local legal advice.

Many thanks for the detailed response. Apologies for using the wrong terminology, clearly I’m not used to having two memberships!

An LLC is an interesting idea. I’m actually somewhat familiar with that as we are currently exploring that option for a vacation home (that has been in our family for many generations) owned by extended family.

So just to be clear - if I were to establish a Trust/LLC, and changed the title of all of my points to that one entity, that would create a new membership number with all the points under that one umbrella (and the old membership numbers would go away)? And if the answer to that is yes, assuming I could then combine points at 7 months for any reservations?

Lots to think about, and agree that good legal assistance would be my next step as part of an estate plan.

I’ll also update this thread title to include the topic of trusts.

Thanks again!

 

[RoseGold]

So just to be clear - if I were to establish a Trust/LLC, and changed the title of all of my points to that one entity, that would create a new membership number with all the points under that one umbrella (and the old membership numbers would go away)? And if the answer to that is yes, assuming I could then combine points at 7 months for any reservations?

All of those rules could change at any moment. Disney currently allows gratuitous transfer for things like this. Maybe they could technically ROFR it?

Using the points is much more complicated, and the points don't have to be used in the current rules at all. Example: Boardwalk could just remove itself from the system and only take BW home point and then your BW points would be stuck there. BW could be destroyed or closed for a pandemic or sold or a billion other configurations allowed in the rules. So, yes, those things are allowed under current policy, but that is not a promise for the future.

If the points belong to a trust/LLC, there is no "I" controlling it, the trust/LLC controls it, and I have no idea what the rules of yours are. But yes, the trust will not have any of your current memberships, because that doesn't make sense.

 

[Boardwalk III]

All of those rules could change at any moment. Disney currently allows gratuitous transfer for things like this. Maybe they could technically ROFR it?

Using the points is much more complicated, and the points don't have to be used in the current rules at all. Example: Boardwalk could just remove itself from the system and only take BW home point and then your BW points would be stuck there. BW could be destroyed or closed for a pandemic or sold or a billion other configurations allowed in the rules. So, yes, those things are allowed under current policy, but that is not a promise for the future.

If the points belong to a trust/LLC, there is no "I" controlling it, the trust/LLC controls it, and I have no idea what the rules of yours are. But yes, the trust will not have any of your current memberships, because that doesn't make sense.

Understood, if there’s anything we’ve all learned over the past few years, everything is subject to change!

To be honest it would be simpler and more cost-effective for me to simply add each son onto separate BWV contracts so they each end up with the same amount of points. That of course leaves the contracts open to liability issues however (in the event of a lawsuit or a divorce etc.), and doesn’t solve the multiple membership scenario.

With only 20 years left on the BWV contracts (and those heading down in value within a few years) I’ll have to decide if it’s worth the effort…. or whether to just roll the dice.

 

[drusba]

DVC considers trustees blue card members, at least under current rules. That may or may not match whatever you mean by "named on the trust." Trustees can also designate associate members, who can control the account, but aren't blue card. Again, current rules.

You don't have two contract numbers (well, except that all contracts have their own numbers), you have two memberships. You have two memberships because the contracts have different owners. If the trust is the owner, it will have to set up its membership. If it owns more than one contract, those contracts will be within that new membership. If you bought a third contract under the trust (and you were a trustee) you would see three member numbers.

No one knows what the rules will be for Blue cards going forward, DVC could just get rid of them completely.

The other way to do this is an LLC, which is probably what I would do in my state, if I were concerned about Blue Cards. LLCs put anyone on the board in Blue Card, but the board can only do what it is allowed to do. I'm willing to join the board, just throwing that out there.

This needs to be part of your overall estate plan and obviously needs local legal advice.

I guess I need to ask what "current rules" you are referring to. All my DVC legal interests are in a living trust that has my name on it, and I'm the beneficiary. That arrangement has existed for about 8 years and DVC continues to treat me as the member for all purposes involving reservations, name on blue membership card, and bills. Before doing the trust, I asked DVC whether I would continue to be the member for those purposes if I transferred the legal interests to the trust, and was told yes.

 

[starry_solo]

I guess I need to ask what "current rules" you are referring to. All my DVC legal interests are in a living trust that has my name on it, and I'm the beneficiary. That arrangement has existed for about 8 years and DVC continues to treat me as the member for all purposes involving reservations, name on blue membership card, and bills. Before doing the trust, I asked DVC whether I would continue to be the member for those purposes if I transferred the legal interests to the trust, and was told yes.

I think what the poster is saying is that only the trustees named in the trust are considered blue card owners. Beneficiaries would not be. So unless the OP plans to create a family trust that identifies OP, Spouse, and adult kids as trustees, then what OP seems to want to accomplish won’t work.

 

[RoseGold]

I guess I need to ask what "current rules" you are referring to. All my DVC legal interests are in a living trust that has my name on it, and I'm the beneficiary. That arrangement has existed for about 8 years and DVC continues to treat me as the member for all purposes involving reservations, name on blue membership card, and bills. Before doing the trust, I asked DVC whether I would continue to be the member for those purposes if I transferred the legal interests to the trust, and was told yes.

The trustee may be the same thing as the beneficiary for you, but it doesn't have to be. Trustees can be professionals and completely different people than the beneficiary. I would be interested in their answer if you asked DVC what would happen if you made your attorney the trustee, but kept you as the beneficiary. That isn't a scenario I've seen addressed well.

 

[drusba]

You are correct, I misconstrued your earlier post. Sorry about that.

 

[E2ME2]

Hi all,

I bought a 2nd DVC contract at VGF this spring after owning at BWV for 20+ years (3 different purchases at BWV - all same use year, and also kept same use year for the VGF contract) . Decided to add one of our grown son’s names onto the new VGF contract as he is a WDW fan and often joins us. Because our sons were children at the time they are not on the Boardwalk contract, thus I now have 2 contract numbers.

Doing some long-term planning & thinking about possibly putting all DVC points under the name of some sort of family trust. Wanted to get the questions below answered if anyone happens to have this information! I’m aware of the thread on Gratuitous Transfers and have that bookmarked (how to add/change names by doing it yourself versus a title company).

But my questions are unrelated to that:

1. My biggest question is whether anyone named on the trust would become legitimate DVC members (blue card, as all our points are direct) . Would likely just be my two sons, although one of them is already a member now having just been added to the new VGF direct contract (150 pts). If I’m not mistaken I’ve read different opinions on this Membership question. And I’m not confident that by calling MS that I’ll get the same answer each time (or the correct answer at all!).

2. Because I added my son’s name onto the VGF contract, I now have two different contract numbers. It works pretty well, but I don’t love that I can’t use all points together at 7 months. If I were to change all of my contracts into the same name, whether it be in a trust or otherwise, might I be able to merge everything back into one contract number? I’m assuming that’s wishful thinking but figured it is worth asking.

3. Anything else I should be thinking about before making this decision? Would obviously need to speak with an attorney on setting up the right type of trust etc.

Many thanks.

If you have 2 different Membership numbers ( Not Contract numbers), you could “transfer points” between memberships to use them altogether at the 7Month mark.

 

[CarolMN]

The trustee may be the same thing as the beneficiary for you, but it doesn't have to be. Trustees can be professionals and completely different people than the beneficiary. I would be interested in their answer if you asked DVC what would happen if you made your attorney the trustee, but kept you as the beneficiary. That isn't a scenario I've seen addressed well.

You are correct, I misconstrued your earlier post. Sorry about that.

My understanding is that adding trustees to a trust after it is set up would require the trust itself to be amended. That would require an attorney. (Adding more trustees to the trust is not the same as naming "successor" trustees, which would normally be done when the trust is set up). IANAL, but if that is correct (@drusba, please correct me if I am wrong), adding adult children after the trust is set up could be expensive.

 

[Boardwalk III]

If you have 2 different Membership numbers ( Not Contract numbers), you could “transfer points” between memberships to use them altogether at the 7Month mark.

Yes, thank you, always a good option. And yes, was mistaken in my original post as I have 2 Membership #’s (vs contract #’s). I haven’t yet decided my course of action, and to complicate things even further I have since purchased a 2nd VGF add-on in December (because I decided I needed more points there after a great stay in October and the pricing was decent ) I put that one under my original membership number for now. At some point I do plan to meet with an attorney to explore the possibilities of creating a Trust or LLC.

 

[RoseGold]

My understanding is that adding trustees to a trust after it is set up would require the trust itself to be amended. That would require an attorney. (Adding more trustees to the trust is not the same as naming "successor" trustees, which would normally be done when the trust is set up). IANAL, but if that is correct (@drusba, please correct me if I am wrong), adding adult children after the trust is set up could be expensive.

The trustee is just the administrator in charge of the trust, the beneficiary is the person who is supposed be spent on. The trustee could be a professional, and the trustee and beneficiary can be the same person. In will terms, the trustee is like the executor, who may or may not be in the will or even know these people.

The trust can be set up to allow a lot of configurations between these people, and trustees can resign.

DVC requires the trustee to approve "associate members." This makes sense because the trustee is the one in charge of following the rules of the trust and the trustee should be the one in charge of the money (points).
https://disneyvacationclub.disney.go.com/faq/contracts-deeds/trust-associate

I guess is would follow logically that the trustee should control the money (points), but who knows with Blue Card? To me, this concept doesn't match up as cleanly with the Blue Card, and I haven't seen a good answer yet on how this is handled.

 

[mistysue]

The trustee is just the administrator in charge of the trust, the beneficiary is the person who is supposed be spent on. The trustee could be a professional, and the trustee and beneficiary can be the same person. In will terms, the trustee is like the executor, who may or may not be in the will or even know these people.

Hey RoseGold - I suspect you know the answer to this one from experience. Say DH and I (current owners) transfer our DVC contracts into a trust with ourselves as the current trustees and beneficiaries - does the login stay attached to our Disney accounts as it is, or does DVC make us make new logins as the "trustee" version our ourselves?

I'm trying to plan ahead incase this causes blips in our plans, but I'm expecting that from user experience it won't really matter - is that how it went for you?

 

[RoseGold]

does the login stay attached to our Disney accounts as it is, or does DVC make us make new logins as the "trustee" version our ourselves?

It can't stay as it is. Any change in ownership will give it a new membership number -- or transfer it to the membership number with that ownership configuration. That would be true if you added your son or dropped your husband or whatever. If you should still get access, it would show up as a different drop down, assuming Disney was able to match you up to the new membership number.

 

[mistysue]

It can't stay as it is. Any change in ownership will give it a new membership number -- or transfer it to the membership number with that ownership configuration. That would be true if you added your son or dropped your husband or whatever. If you should still get access, it would show up as a different drop down, assuming Disney was able to match you up to the new membership number.

So do you think I would keep the same login?
A different tab/number doesn't matter to me, I was just trying to figure out if I would need a new account on the website, but I suspect as with most things calling and asking would get me a new answer every time I call.

 

[Sandisw]

So do you think I would keep the same login?
A different tab/number doesn't matter to me, I was just trying to figure out if I would need a new account on the website, but I suspect as with most things calling and asking would get me a new answer every time I call.

Your log in should stay the same since those are tied to each individual. For example, when we added my adult children to our deeds and it changed that contract, my log in didn’t change,

Each of the kids now got their own log in. To me, it’s like when you add someone as an associate…they now can get a log in for DVC and I believe it wll be the same one they would use for MDE since all log ins for Disney are the same.