CDC Notifies States, Large Cities To Prepare For Vaccine Distribution As Soon As Late October

[Jonfw2]

Well, while it is exciting news, we're literally a bit over a week since the Pfizer participants got the second injection.....so we've got 90% efficacy, but just one week of immunity. So, we have a long way to go before we know just how effective it is over time. Also, we just don't have the long term side effects data, because....not enough time has passed.

And also, forgive me, but there have been lots of "cures" thrown out along the way here, only to have them shot down as either not-effective at all, like hydroxychloroquine, to remdesivir which the W.H.O says is not effective at all, to the Eli-Lily antibody cocktail which doesn't seem to reduce hospitalization.

Remdesivir: 3 days ago, the NIAID (that's Fauci's people) reiterated that it works.

Eli Lily: what you wrote is simply false. It was ineffective for LATE stage Covid patients, but very effective early- and that is who it was approved for.

https://www.contagionlive.com/view/...-first-fda-approval-of-treatment-for-covid-19
https://www.npr.org/sections/health...ly-covid-19-drug-but-supplies-will-be-limited

 

[RamblingMad]

Bearing in mind that a month ago, you were telling us the vaccine was a 2022 event.

I've never said that. I've always summer or fall for a vaccine.

 

[dvcgirl67]

Remdesivir: 3 days ago, the NIAID (that's Fauci's people) reiterated that it works.

Eli Lily: what you wrote is simply false. It was ineffective for LATE stage Covid patients, but very effective early- and that is who it was approved for.

https://www.contagionlive.com/view/...-first-fda-approval-of-treatment-for-covid-19
https://www.npr.org/sections/health...ly-covid-19-drug-but-supplies-will-be-limited

There are several organizations that doubt the effectiveness of remdesivir. And the Eli-Lily drug...I said it doesn't decrease hospitalizations. It sounds more like a tamiflu to me....something you take as soon as you get the flu, and it'll make the course less awful and a day or two shorter. I'm just guessing that a 5 day script for Tamiflu is about a gazillion times cheaper than the Eli-Lily antibody cocktaili infusion.

The reality is that some of these therapeutics are going to be incredibly expensive, and likely do very little to decrease hospitalization and death.

Another reality is....that the county hospitals in a place like El Paso, TX, which is full of poor people with COVID, some of whom may be undocumented immigrants....well, I'm thinking that the whole "These drugs are free for ALL"....isn't going to apply so much for those folks. Or the poor folks. That's just the world (and now country) that we live in.

 

[Jonfw2]

There are several organizations that doubt the effectiveness of remdesivir. And the Eli-Lily drug...I said it doesn't decrease hospitalizations. It sounds more like a tamiflu to me....something you take as soon as you get the flu, and it'll make the course less awful and a day or two shorter. I'm just guessing that a 5 day script for Tamiflu is about a gazillion times cheaper than the Eli-Lily antibody cocktaili infusion.

The reality is that some of these therapeutics are going to be incredibly expensive, and likely do very little to decrease hospitalization and death.

Another reality is....that the county hospitals in a place like El Paso, TX, which is full of poor people with COVID, some of whom may be undocumented immigrants....well, I'm thinking that the whole "These drugs are free for ALL"....isn't going to apply so much for those folks. Or the poor folks. That's just the world (and now country) that we live in.

It DOES reduce hospitalizations! Where are you getting this info from? It's wrong.

Yes, drugs will be free for "poor folks" through medicaid. As far as illegal immigrants are concerned, with all do respect, they are not entitled to free drugs in the US.

 

[Jonfw2]

"COVID-19–related hospitalization or emergency room visit rates were 1.6% (5 of 309 patients) in the antibody group and 6.3% (9 of 143 patients) in the placebo group, suggesting an association between higher viral clearance and lower hospitalization rates. The hospitalization rate was more striking among patients 65 years or older with a body mass index of 35 or more— 4% and 15% respectively for the antibody and placebo groups."

https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-per...lys-covid-19-antibody-treatment-shows-promise

 

[Colleen27]

UPS and FedEx have both already said they have been building freezer facilities nationwide to prepare for this.

And yet, this is the current state of affairs as it relates to distributing and administering a drug that requires deep freeze conditions:

https://www.propublica.org/article/...Tm_uz30ek1ZLrIRhtzT8s9V6G2Mu8fgWrvXjdfB-Ly3KA

A review of state distribution plans reveals that officials don’t know how they’ll deal with the difficult storage and transport requirements of Pfizer’s vaccine, especially in the rural areas currently seeing a spike in infections.

 

[dvcgirl67]

Remdesivir: 3 days ago, the NIAID (that's Fauci's people) reiterated that it works.

Eli Lily: what you wrote is simply false. It was ineffective for LATE stage Covid patients, but very effective early- and that is who it was approved for.

I can't find the link for the article I read about the Eli-Lily drug's effectiveness....it was more about exactly how useful this infusion will be for people not sick enough to be hospitalized. This is a two step infusion...so given by I.V....to non-hospitalized patients. This isn't something you get at most General Practitioner offices. It will need to be given in a clinic or an emergency room that can handle Covid-positive patients. Also, the government pays for the drug, but likely not for the infusion itself....meaning the practitioner who administers it. And as this article also states, it's a real judgement call on who should get it, when to give it, and then convincing patients to take it.

https://www.npr.org/sections/health...s-deal-for-covid-19-treatments-from-eli-lilly

 

[Jonfw2]

And yet, this is the current state of affairs as it relates to distributing and administering a drug that requires deep freeze conditions:

https://www.propublica.org/article/...Tm_uz30ek1ZLrIRhtzT8s9V6G2Mu8fgWrvXjdfB-Ly3KA

i do not disagree that this is challenging. But Pfizer has answered most of these questions already with the boxes they’ve created.
As an example, a box of doses could be flown to, say Kansas City met several hours later by a UPS truck and driven straight to a rural nursing home and thawed and given immediately.

 

[Jonfw2]

I can't find the link for the article I read about the Eli-Lily drug's effectiveness....it was more about exactly how useful this infusion will be for people not sick enough to be hospitalized. This is a two step infusion...so given by I.V....to non-hospitalized patients. This isn't something you get at most General Practitioner offices. It will need to be given in a clinic or an emergency room that can handle Covid-positive patients. Also, the government pays for the drug, but likely not for the infusion itself....meaning the practitioner who administers it. And as this article also states, it's a real judgement call on who should get it, when to give it, and then convincing patients to take it.

https://www.npr.org/sections/health...s-deal-for-covid-19-treatments-from-eli-lilly

Regardless of all that, it DOES reduce hospitalizations.

 

[lifesavacation]

And yet, this is the current state of affairs as it relates to distributing and administering a drug that requires deep freeze conditions:

https://www.propublica.org/article/...Tm_uz30ek1ZLrIRhtzT8s9V6G2Mu8fgWrvXjdfB-Ly3KA

Thank you for posting this article. I've been wondering just how they were going to ship and distribute vaccines at that temperature.

 

[aggiedog]

https://www.npr.org/sections/health...s-deal-for-covid-19-treatments-from-eli-lilly
So even with insurance, paying the associated costs for illness that doesn't actually require hospitalization may be a non-starter for many. At least, the many without a hefty disposable income.

https://www.npr.org/sections/health...19-patients-are-covered-but-no-one-tells-them
It doesn't help to have your costs covered if hospitals don't tell you they are. :/

 

[dvcgirl67]

Regardless of all that, it DOES reduce hospitalizations.

Ok, I get it, I get it.

However, can you see how it will be challenging? The president is the perfect example of how it needs to be given. I know he got the Regeneron cocktail, but it's very similar. Not picking on his appearance, age, or gender for that matter....but as an obese older male who gets tested frequently (and has a private hospital and helicopter at his disposal).....he was clearly a risk for a bad course of covid. He got that drug quickly, but in a hospital as an isolated Covid patient. For the rest of us...not so easy.

Logistically, this is tricky to deliver in the real world. This Eli-LIly drug is best given to Covid positive patients, who are high risk, before they get too sick. But how to deliver/administer the drug...again, tricky.

 

[dvcgirl67]

https://www.npr.org/sections/health...s-deal-for-covid-19-treatments-from-eli-lilly
So even with insurance, paying the associated costs for illness that doesn't actually require hospitalization may be a non-starter for many. At least, the many without a hefty disposable income.

https://www.npr.org/sections/health...19-patients-are-covered-but-no-one-tells-them
It doesn't help to have your costs covered if hospitals don't tell you they are. :/

That's what I was trying to say. Aren't you the surgeon aggiedog?

 

[Colleen27]

Ok, I get it, I get it.

However, can you see how it will be challenging? The president is the perfect example of how it needs to be given. I know he got the Regeneron cocktail, but it's very similar. Not picking on his appearance, age, or gender for that matter....but as an obese older male who gets tested frequently (and has a private hospital and helicopter at his disposal).....he was clearly a risk for a bad course of covid. He got that drug quickly, but in a hospital as an isolated Covid patient. For the rest of us...not so easy.

Logistically, this is tricky to deliver in the real world. This Eli-LIly drug is best given to Covid positive patients, who are high risk, before they get too sick. But how to deliver/administer the drug...again, tricky.

And the fact that it needs to be administered fairly early in the virus's course makes it particularly difficult in the US, where the financial aspects of our medical system discourage people from seeking testing or care until it has become apparent that the virus is not just a cold/flu that will resolve on its own with minimal/no intervention. It will probably become more effective/helpful if or when we have better control of the virus and can do more surveillance testing of high-risk population to identify cases sooner, as was done for the president, but at the present moment it is going to be challenging to connect to those high-risk patients who would get the most benefit from the treatment early enough in their illness.

 

[aggiedog]

That's what I was trying to say. Aren't you the surgeon aggiedog?

I'm an ophthalmologist (eye surgeon.)

 

[Jonfw2]

The funny thing is the first thought I had Monday when I heard the Pfizer news was “who could possibly be negative about this???”

 

[anniemae]

The funny thing is the first thought I had Monday when I heard the Pfizer news was “who could possibly be negative about this???”

I have a quick question for you. I hop in and out of this thread and you seem to have a lot of info about covid. Are you a Dr. or do you work for a pharmaceutical company?

 

[wvjules]

It DOES reduce hospitalizations! Where are you getting this info from? It's wrong.

Yes, drugs will be free for "poor folks" through medicaid. As far as illegal immigrants are concerned, with all do respect, they are not entitled to free drugs in the US.

A healthy population is good for ALL OF US.

 

[skeeter31]

The funny thing is the first thought I had Monday when I heard the Pfizer news was “who could possibly be negative about this???”

It’s no negative, it’s being more realistic. The news also doesn’t call for 100% Pollyanna optimism either. People have to admit that there are going to be challenges to getting this vaccine out there. While your earlier example of flying it out and getting it to the NH is excellent and most likely will be how this vaccine will initially be deployed around the country. I think others are starting to wonder how it will get to the point where they would be able to get it. This isn‘t going to be the type of vaccine that doctors offices or pharmacies have in stock that you can just head over and get. Most likely it’s going to be hospitals that get those cases of vaccines and it will be very difficult, logistically, for people to get vaccinated once it opens up to everyone can get it. There just won’t be enough places around the country that can store it properly.

 

[dvcgirl67]

I'm an ophthalmologist (eye surgeon.)

Ahhh, I knew it was surgery of some kind.