CDC Notifies States, Large Cities To Prepare For Vaccine Distribution As Soon As Late October

[Jonfw2]

Fauci said earlier that Moderna's vax data will likely be out very soon- within a week- and he'd be surprised if the results are not similar to Pfizer's.

 

[DisneyJamieCA]

Actually, no. The government has already determined that the most at risk- the elderly, those with severe comorbidities, and first responders- will get it first. Sorry.

Understand that much of our government falls within those categories.

 

[RamblingMad]

FWIW, the good news about the Pfizer vaccine comes with a gotcha the size of a house: required storage temperature. For stable storage, the vaccine requires a freezer that can maintain at -80C. Those freezers are super-expensive and as rare as hen's teeth, and there are fewer than a dozen companies that have the capacity to make them. Distributing the vaccine safely and without excessive waste is going to be a huge challenge, especially since it is a 2-dose vaccine, and the second dose must be from the same mfr. as the first one. Pfizer has come up with a way to ship them in small batches, but the container is really small, requires dry ice (which has been difficult to source lately), and the countdown to spoilage starts the moment it goes into the container.

This article from about a month ago has a very good summary of the logistics problems inherent in distributing the vaccine: https://www.rollcall.com/2020/10/13/deep-freezers-and-dry-ice-for-pfizer-vaccine-may-face-shortages/
And this one: https://www.theguardian.com/busines...echs-vaccine-poses-global-logistics-challenge

It seems to me that what we will see is that getting vaccinated will require a set of appointments made well in advance, because every dose is going to need to be accounted for within a 5-10 day window between leaving the factory and entering the recipient's blood stream.

I think that even if you are in a priority category, actually getting this vaccine will be a lot like getting a ride time for ROTR: possible, but very difficult and time-consuming.

Supply chain problems exist. I don't think people realize how difficult it's going to be to deploy these vaccines.

 

[Jonfw2]

Supply chain problems exist. I don't think people realize how difficult it's going to be to deploy these vaccines.

No. It's not. I don't even know on what basis you'd say that. Of course it will take time to get distributed but that's due to supply itself. Not supply chains.

 

[godisney14]

UPS and FedEx have both already said they have been building freezer facilities nationwide to prepare for this.

Of all the promising vaccines, the one from BioNTek Pfizer is the trickiest to deliver. It requires storage at -80C. From what UPS has released so far, they only have one facility in the US (in Louisville, KY) with -80C freezers. UPS is currently building another -80 freezer farm facility in Netherlands at the moment. That’s it. Not sure what FedEx is doing.

Moderna’s vaccine only requires -20C, which is much easier to transport logistically. And, best, the AstraZeneca vaccine does not even need to be kept frozen.

 

[Jonfw2]

Understand that much of our government falls within those categories.

Okay. So?

 

[dvcgirl67]

UPS and FedEx have both already said they have been building freezer facilities nationwide to prepare for this.

Yes, I've read that too. But....it's still not going to be enough. And even if UPS and Fed Ex are able to store the vaccines temporarily, and ship them in dry ice, the recipients also have to have the deep freezers, which are very expensive.

However, I just listened to the Wall Street Journal Podcast about the Pfizer vaccine and it's really quite remarkable what they're doing. First of all, on the "is it in the warp speed or not category"....it's not as many have said. One of the main reasons it seems that Pfizer opted out of that program is a.) they're loaded and didn't need hundreds of millions or a billion up front from the government and b). they didn't want to have to jump through government hoops and red tape in the development of their vaccine. It seems that they were confident enough that their vaccine would get F.D.A approval when they presented it. They have invested 2 billion in the R&D, making the first 50 million vaccines *and*....something that is right out of a Sci Fi movie.

They have developed a large "suitcase/container" to transport thousands of vaccines at a time, at the correct temperature....which would then act as a temporary storage freezer wherever it is shipped....for a limited period of time. This is huge...because otherwise, this is very difficult undertaking. They're even going to lengths to send out dummy shipments of the vaccine, because they're very concerned about theft. And...US Air Marshalls may be accompanying shipments on flights as it's distributed.

I mean, to have these companies develop these vaccines in such a short period of time and also come up with massive distribution plans to this detail is the close to a "Moonshot" that I've seen in my lifetime. It should give us all hope. The next few months will be awful regardless of this news, even with the limited therapeutics we have. But, at least we know that in about 6-9 months, many of us will begin to have access to a vaccine.

 

[RamblingMad]

No. It's not. I don't even know on what basis you'd say that. Of course it will take time to get distributed but that's due to supply itself. Not supply chains.

What supply chain already exists for deploying vaccines with the temperature requirements? These are brand new. If you want a lot of people to get it, you want to be able to give the vaccines at pharmacies like the flu shot. If people have to wait to get a doctor's appointment, far less people will get it.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6279616/

 

[Jonfw2]

From a supply chain newsletter:

'To help with the distribution, Pfizer has designed a box to manage the temperature. The "temperature-controlled shippers" use dry ice to maintain a storage temperature of minus 70 degrees Celsius (plus or minus 10 degrees Celsius) for up to 10 days.

"The intent is to utilize Pfizer-strategic transportation partners to ship by air to major hubs within a country/region and by ground transport to dosing locations," the spokesperson wrote.

The boxes will be outfitted with a GPS tracker that will allow the company to track the shipments from a control tower where the company will work to ensure shipments don't experience temperature diversions. The box can then be refilled with dry ice at the dosing location to keep the vaccine at the correct temperature for storage.'

 

[godisney14]

Yes, I've read that too. But....it's still not going to be enough. And even if UPS and Fed Ex are able to store the vaccines temporarily, and ship them in dry ice, the recipients also have to have the deep freezers, which are very expensive.



They have developed a large "suitcase/container" to transport thousands of vaccines at a time, at the correct temperature....which would then act as a temporary storage freezer wherever it is shipped....for a limited period of time. This is huge...because otherwise, this is very difficult undertaking. They're even going to lengths to send out dummy shipments of the vaccine, because they're very concerned about theft. And...US Air Marshalls may be accompanying shipments on flights as it's distributed.

Thousands of doses at a time per delivery is a good start but that’s not going to cut it when you’re trying to get almost a million doses out per day.

 

[Jonfw2]

Thousands of doses at a time per delivery is a good start but that’s not going to cut it when you’re trying to get almost a million doses out per day.

Why isn't it going to cut it? What do you know about their delivery capabilities that I don't?

 

[godisney14]

Why isn't it going to cut it? What do you know about their delivery capabilities that I don't?

What do you know that others don’t?

 

[Jonfw2]

What do you know that others don’t?

Each individual package Pfizer ships out holds 1,000-5,000 doses of the vaccine. So many, many thousands can go out at once.

https://www.nbcnews.com/business/bu...ffort-distribute-coronavirus-vaccine-n1247147

 

[RamblingMad]

Thousands of doses at a time per delivery is a good start but that’s not going to cut it when you’re trying to get almost a million doses out per day.

Think about it this way. You can get a flu shot at any local pharmacy. How many people have already received the flu shot so far this year? Are you more likely to get a flu shot now that you can get one at pharmacy versus having to schedule a doctor's appointment? The side effects are also pretty well known. How would pharmacies manage side effects for this new vaccine?

If a limited number of places are available to get this new vaccine, it's going to take a lot longer to give everyone this shot. Having to get two makes it even more difficult. We have 350 million people living in this country. If half wants to get it, then that's going to take months to deploy, so if it becomes available in the spring, we could be into the fall before everyone that wants to get one gets one.

 

[Jonfw2]

Think about it this way. You can get a flu shot at any local pharmacy. How many people have already received the flu shot so far this year? Are you more likely to get a flu shot now that you can get one at pharmacy versus having to schedule a doctor's appointment? The side effects are also pretty well known. How would pharmacies manage side effects for this new vaccine?

If a limited number of places are available to get this new vaccine, it's going to take a lot longer to give everyone this shot. Having to get two makes it even more difficult. We have 350 million people living in this country. If half wants to get it, then that's going to take months to deploy, so if it becomes available in the spring, we could be into the fall before everyone that wants to get one gets one.

Bearing in mind that a month ago, you were telling us the vaccine was a 2022 event.

 

[Jonfw2]

Oct 16, RamblingMad:

I doubt we’ll see much from Pfizer until later next year.

 

[dvcgirl67]

Thousands of doses at a time per delivery is a good start but that’s not going to cut it when you’re trying to get almost a million doses out per day.

Agreed, it's going to take many months to get this done. However, I felt a heck of a lot better about the Pfizer containers that will maintain the correct temperature for the virus *throughout transit* right on to the destination for a period of time.

True story, just yesterday, I was listening to the WNYC podcast with Brian Leher. He had Dr. Syra Madad (she as one of the docs in the Pandemic doc on Netflix), to discuss the rising Covid cases and the vaccine. People called in with questions/comments. Near the end, a woman named Arlene called in and I immediately recognized her as a customer of mine. She said she is in the Pfizer trial and talked about how rigorous Pfizer has been in the study when it comes to the participants. So, I texted her last night, and I was right....it was her. Should have know, her late 20s son is a virologist who went to Johns Hopkins and works in NYC. He is also in the study. They both think that they got the placebo, as neither had any side effects.

Arlene told me that for both the vaccine and the booster, she had to wait 45 minutes while the vaccine thawed. She had to be on the premises for that period of time....because if it warms up....it's no longer effective. Anyway, I found it interesting to hear how administration went for her and her son. Makes me think that the same thing will apply once they roll it out. That you will need to be on site when it begins to thaw, so that you get it immediately. This is why I imagine it will go out to healthcare workers first. Easy to vaccinate them, at work, where the vaccines will be.

 

[dvcgirl67]

Oct 16, RamblingMad:

I doubt we’ll see much from Pfizer until later next year.

Let's be cool so the thread isn't shut down.

To be fair to RamblingMad....except for any people on this thread who are healthcare workers.....none of will see anything from Pfizer, likely until late spring/early summer.

 

[Jonfw2]

Here's the thing: a few months ago, we were arguing here about the vaccine even being possible. Then, we argued about how well it would actually work.

And now we have a vaccine years before expected working at a greater efficacy than every hoped for.

So we argue about how many problems there will be getting it out.

 

[dvcgirl67]

Here's the thing: a few months ago, we were arguing here about the vaccine even being possible. Then, we argued about how well it would actually work.

And now we have a vaccine years before expected working at a greater efficacy than every hoped for.

So we argue about how many problems there will be getting it out.

Well, while it is exciting news, we're literally a bit over a week since the Pfizer participants got the second injection.....so we've got 90% efficacy, but just one week of immunity. So, we have a long way to go before we know just how effective it is over time. Also, we just don't have the long term side effects data, because....not enough time has passed.

And also, forgive me, but there have been lots of "cures" thrown out along the way here, only to have them shot down as either not-effective at all, like hydroxychloroquine, to remdesivir which the W.H.O says is not effective at all, to the Eli-Lily antibody cocktail which doesn't seem to reduce hospitalization.

And so, anyone who is a bit skeptical, or cautious about the vaccine news has been given plenty of reasons to feel that way. Science isn't always a black or white thing...it takes time.