Catholic Guilt

[jack hannah bananah]

I baptized all 3 of my children and that is pretty much how I feel. They have also received Communion, well 2 of them have, the 3rd isn't old enough yet. My DH is Catholic as well. He goes to Church every Sunday . I have to also add that I don't hate the Catholic Church. I just don't follow all the rules and because I don't that is where my guilt lies.

But why feel guilty if you are not doing anything wrong? Is it possible that you feel guilty because down deep you know these teachings are good?
I know it is not easy to follow all of the Catholic teachings, and honestly I don't. However, I see the value in these teachings and think if I can stay as close to them as I can, then I will be a better person, and a better child of God. I feel guilt for some things (like missing church) because I know I should be there - I need to be there (no, not because I will go to the hot place). I don't feel guilt about others because I know God gave me a brain to think with and the free will to do what is best (hopefully).

 

[Buckalew11]

just wondering what kind of things you all feel guilty about?

 

[ProudMomTo3Boys]

But why feel guilty if you are not doing anything wrong? Is it possible that you feel guilty because down deep you know these teachings are good?
I know it is not easy to follow all of the Catholic teachings, and honestly I don't. However, I see the value in these teachings and think if I can stay as close to them as I can, then I will be a better person, and a better child of God. I feel guilt for some things (like missing church) because I know I should be there - I need to be there (no, not because I will go to the hot place). I don't feel guilt about others because I know God gave me a brain to think with and the free will to do what is best (hopefully).

But according to the Church I am doing something wrong and that is where the guilt is. I don't go to Church, I use birth control because 3 kids is enough for me. I do believe in a womans right to choose to abort if she wants to. Those things are wrong according to the Catholic Church. That is why there is guilt. Maybe its hard for you to understand but I really don't know how else to explain it.

 

[rotlex]

Interesting thread. Cradle Catholic here. I was away from the church for quite some time however. Finding my faith if you will. I was baptized Catholic, raised Catholic etc. etc.

I'm now back in full force as an adult, and in my early 40's, not feeling guilty at all! I feel I now understand things far better than I did in my early years, and have accepted, IMO, and belief, that the Catholic church is the one true church, started by Christ. I'm not looking for any backlash on that, but I am wondering why anyone stating they feel guilty, relieves that guilt by simply moving to another denomination?

I AM NOT looking for argument, or massive debate here, but I get rather confused when protestants, particularly those that are formerly Catholic, are happier outside of the Catholic church. It seems to me as though many other denominations simply change the rules to suit them, as they don't feel like being that "strict". Many of these "rules" are from the Bible itself, not necessarily the Catholic church. (i.e., birth control, abortion, attending mass etc. etc).

Anyway, don't mean to offend at all, but I'm finding the responses here rather interesting, as well as confusing.

 

[AnnetteF]

Interesting thread. Cradle Catholic here. I was away from the church for quite some time however. Finding my faith if you will. I was baptized Catholic, raised Catholic etc. etc.

I'm now back in full force as an adult, and in my early 40's, not feeling guilty at all! I feel I now understand things far better than I did in my early years, and have accepted, IMO, and belief, that the Catholic church is the one true church, started by Christ. I'm not looking for any backlash on that, but I am wondering why anyone stating they feel guilty, relieves that guilt by simply moving to another denomination?

I AM NOT looking for argument, or massive debate here, but I get rather confused when protestants, particularly those that are formerly Catholic, are happier outside of the Catholic church. It seems to me as though many other denominations simply change the rules to suit them, as they don't feel like being that "strict". Many of these "rules" are from the Bible itself, not necessarily the Catholic church. (i.e., birth control, abortion, attending mass etc. etc).

Anyway, don't mean to offend at all, but I'm finding the responses here rather interesting, as well as confusing.

I agree with you completely! If anyone is feeling guilty, it must be because deep down they believe they are doing something that they should feel guilty about. I'm Catholic and may not always follow every last rule to the letter, but I take full responsibility for the choices I make. I don't need to go out and find another religion that will tell me that something is ok.

 

[smartestnumber5]

But why feel guilty if you are not doing anything wrong? Is it possible that you feel guilty because down deep you know these teachings are good?
I know it is not easy to follow all of the Catholic teachings, and honestly I don't. However, I see the value in these teachings and think if I can stay as close to them as I can, then I will be a better person, and a better child of God. I feel guilt for some things (like missing church) because I know I should be there - I need to be there (no, not because I will go to the hot place). I don't feel guilt about others because I know God gave me a brain to think with and the free will to do what is best (hopefully).

I agree with you completely! If anyone is feeling guilty, it must be because deep down they believe they are doing something that they should feel guilty about. I'm Catholic and may not always follow every last rule to the letter, but I take full responsibility for the choices I make. I don't need to go out and find another religion that will tell me that something is ok.

These posts imply that feelings of guilt (and other emotions and attitudes) are a lot more rational than they often actually are. Sometimes I feel guilty for asking GF to do her share of the housework. Does that mean I'm wrong to do so? Of course not! I also feel guilty when telling a acquaintance "no" when they ask me for something--even if it's something which is clearly a request that oversteps the bounds of our relationship. And on the other hand, we know that people are capable of doing horrendous things without any feelings of guilt at all (slavery, the holocaust, etc.). Our feelings and our beliefs and reality simply do not always line up and this is a well known psychological phenomenon.

In grad school there is a lot of talk about "the imposter syndrome"--a situation which many grad students (and other kinds of professionals in high powered jobs)--especially people who are minorities in their field...i.e. are women or racial minorities--find themselves in which all of the evidence they receive about their intelligence and talent is positive and they believe in their academic abilities, but they experience feelings of worthlessness. They are afraid that at any moment their colleagues or advisers will find out that they are actually really stupid and worthless. I've experienced this myself and I know that my feelings are irrational--I know that I am just as smart as the other people in my PhD program...but I don't feel like I'm of similar intelligence and talent. The hypothesized explanation for why this dissonance between one's beliefs and one's feelings occurs (and why it is so much more common in women in male dominated fields) is that certain attitudes about what kind of people are intelligent and talented at certain things can be internalized even when we don't believe them. So a woman who is given the message over and over that women are just not good at science may recognize that as the b.s. that it is, but she may still come to internalize the message and then doubt her own abilities.

I suspect the posters are referring to the same type of thing--when one's emotions continue to cling to messages which one no longer believes but which have been ingrained in one over a long period of time (especially in childhood).

Personally I never experienced any "Catholic guilt" phenomenon after I stopped believing in my early teen years. Before that I think I did have some such instances. For instance, I always hated going to church throughout my entire childhood and seven years of Catholic school, but it was a sin not to go to church every Sunday. Every Sunday I hoped that something would come up so that we didn't have to go to church, but at the same time, I felt guilty for wanting that because I was told over and over and over that I had to go to church and that I was supposed to want to go. I remember thinking, "why would God require us to do something so horribly boring every week?" and "there must be something wrong with me if other people actually like church and I'd rather go to the dentist." Once I stopped believing, though, I had no leftover guilt.

I know other people who do though. One friend was shown movies about how horrible abortion is (movies which tried to pass off pictures of a late-term abortion as representative of what happens in a typical abortion before 12 weeks) and now though she does seem to moderately support abortion rights, she says she still has those images in her head and can't help but think about them when abortion comes up.

My mother is Catholic and has stopped going to church for a number of reasons a few years ago. A couple years after that she got breast cancer in both breasts at the same time. At the time, she said she couldn't shake the feeling that God was punishing her for not going to church. I'm guessing this has a lot to do with her time in Catholic school as a child where the nuns taught the children that they had to steel their hearts against the devil and that any sin they commit would be opening their hearts and that the devil might take them over in that moment. She actually has had severe anxiety problems all of her life which began in school when she would worry herself to the point of throwing up.

 

[smartestnumber5]

Interesting thread. Cradle Catholic here. I was away from the church for quite some time however. Finding my faith if you will. I was baptized Catholic, raised Catholic etc. etc.

I'm now back in full force as an adult, and in my early 40's, not feeling guilty at all! I feel I now understand things far better than I did in my early years, and have accepted, IMO, and belief, that the Catholic church is the one true church, started by Christ. I'm not looking for any backlash on that, but I am wondering why anyone stating they feel guilty, relieves that guilt by simply moving to another denomination?

I AM NOT looking for argument, or massive debate here, but I get rather confused when protestants, particularly those that are formerly Catholic, are happier outside of the Catholic church. It seems to me as though many other denominations simply change the rules to suit them, as they don't feel like being that "strict". Many of these "rules" are from the Bible itself, not necessarily the Catholic church. (i.e., birth control, abortion, attending mass etc. etc).

Anyway, don't mean to offend at all, but I'm finding the responses here rather interesting, as well as confusing.

Actually there is nothing in the bible about abortion (the Catholic Church actually had a completely different take on abortion for most of its history), and I don't believe there is anything specifically about artificial birth control methods. There is the spilling the seed story, but that only obviously refers to the withdrawal method.

I don't see protestant denominations as relaxing the rules so much as differently interpreting the bible and rejecting anything other than the bible and various ways of interpreting it as the basis for the faith. As far as I remember, the Catholic Church is quite upfront about the fact that it does not restrict itself to the bible alone in terms of religious authority. (Also, IMO many protestant denominations are actually "stricter" than Catholicism in some ways.)

In any case, I don't think that people leave one church for another--and hence start believing new things--merely to relieve guilt. I don't think our psychologies are even capable of working that way; I don't think we can just start believing X because then we won't have to feel guilty anymore. (It would be quite amazing if we could motivate ourselves that way--we'd never have to feel bad about anything. We could just say to ourselves "Hmm, it really sucks to feel guilty about having cheated on my wife. I don't want to feel that way anymore. So I'll just start believing that it's not wrong to cheat on your wife. 1...2...3 Okay done. Now I believe it's okay to cheat on my wife; so I've absolved my guilt." Our minds just don't work that way.)

So I think what's going on is that people leave a church because (among other reasons) they do not believe in what the church says. They may feel guilt, but they don't believe that they should feel guilt, because they don't agree with the church's standard of right and wrong.

To take a non-religious case, my family is very traditional and almost all members of the family live within 10 miles of one another. As a child I shared some of their more traditional views about family staying together, but then as I got older I stopped agreeing with them. I was the first of my family to move more than 10 miles away (more like 600 miles in fact) and when I chose to do so I did feel guilty given my family's reaction and their pleadings with me not to go. But I never thought that I should have felt guilty because I never believed that I was doing anything wrong or that my family had any cause for complaint. In fact, if anything I believed that they were in the wrong for trying to manipulate me and guilt me into staying.


Actually it just occurred to me, that there's a interesting related case of this kind of thing in The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn which moral philosophers discuss a lot. There's a scene where Huck helps Jim (a slave) escape, and Huck obviously feels guilty. He describes his conscience as telling him that he is stealing property (i.e. Jim) from another person. But yet in the end he decides to help Jim anyway even though he thinks he'll end up going to hell. Clearly the last thing Huck should have done was trust his guilt. His guilt was the result of being taught morally repugnant things (e.g. that African-Americans are property and that it is wrong to steal property for any reason). He may feel guilty for helping Jim escape, but clearly he doesn't have anything to feel guilty over--it's the rest of his society that ought to feel guilty.

It's hard to get a grasp on what exactly is going on in Huck's mind. It seems that part of him still believes that African-Americans are ownable, but then another part of him seems to recognize that it is wrong to treat a human being as a piece of property. It seems he is on his way to rejecting (or maybe already has rejected) the belief that African-Americans are property, but yet he still feels guilty. But when we read his story we would never think that he is changing his beliefs merely to assuage his guilt. It's completely clear that the guilt is not to be trusted.

 

[smartestnumber5]

On the issue of whether "Catholic guilt" is different from guilt that might go along with not following the rules of any religion one happened to be raised with I wondering if Catholicism might be a little different for a couple of reasons:

1) I have always gotten the feeling that Catholicism is different than many/most Protestant denominations in it's approach to sin. The way that purgatory is often presented/understood is as a place where one is going to have to pay for one's sins. And since in Catholicism, good works are required to get into heaven, there is always the fear that if one sins too much or doesn't do enough good, then one won't go to heaven (at least, that is how I used to feel as a child.) I've seen numerous protestants on the DIS, however, who seem absolutely sure that they are going to heaven and who emphasize the idea that all one has to do in order to get to heaven is accept Jesus (and truly accepting Jesus will lead to good works). I also have gotten the sense that in some Protestant denominations when one comes to truly accept Jesus one's past sins are forgotten and one doesn't need to make up for them and they won't be held against one in the future.

2) I think many Catholic parishes--more so than most Protestant denominations--often have a cultural or ethnic aspect to them and thus many people who are born and raised as Catholics experience the religion as very much tied up with their own and their family's cultural heritage. In the area in which I was raised the two biggest groups of Catholics appeared to be Lebanese Catholics and Italian Catholics. My family was Italian (and thus huge!) and I would say every person who was not a family member through marriage was raised and remained Catholic throughout their lives. All the big extended family events--weddings, baptisms, confirmations, first communions, funerals--involved the Catholic religion. So in my family there was no sense at all that one gets to choose a religion--it just is assumed that everyone born into the family is and will always be Catholic (though very much cafeteria Catholic...so far as I can tell, no one in my family has ever felt an ounce of guilt over using birth control, which I suspect is largely due to the fact that the entire family is completely in favor of it and since childhood children are taught that it is okay despite what the Church says).

This, I think, means there is a lot of family conflict over people questioning anything about the Church. When my mom stopped going to mass, my grandfather gave her a hard time for a quite awhile. Since he was elderly and too sick to leave the house for mass, he would watch each week on tv and eventually he started bugging my mom to watch. So she very much felt that in not going to church she not only would be leaving her religion but would some how be letting down the family. In fact, it has always puzzled me why my mom and a few other family members who have serious anger at the Church do not convert. I really think it has to do with the family/cultural issues.

 

[Buckalew11]

SmartestNumber,

I know we disagree on the view of religion but I really enjoyed reading what you wrote. Your point about Protestants was right on target as to what we believe. I thought your points were very well put. Thanks for taking the time to share them.

 

[castleview]

I still have the guilt if I miss church - well, sometimes. I spent over a year doing a church search and found a wonderful congregational church. It was hard dealing with my mother, however I now look forward to services and I've become quite involved. That's what church should be about. Do what's right for you.

 

[smartestnumber5]

SmartestNumber,

I know we disagree on the view of religion but I really enjoyed reading what you wrote. Your point about Protestants was right on target as to what we believe. I thought your points were very well put. Thanks for taking the time to share them.

Thanks

 

[castleview]

I feel I now understand things far better than I did in my early years, and have accepted, IMO, and belief, that the Catholic church is the one true church, started by Christ. I'm not looking for any backlash on that, but I am wondering why anyone stating they feel guilty, relieves that guilt by simply moving to another denomination?

.

Maybe Catholics feel guilty leaving because they're taught that they are leaving the "one true church". Personally, I think that attitude leads to the arrogance exhibited in people like William Donahoe and several patrons at the church I used to go to.

I, myself, wanted a church that I wanted to go to...not that I was supposed to go to. I don't agree with several Catholic principles (i.e. one man is infallible, birth control is bad, annulments, etc.) Why would I stay and live a lie?

 

[rotlex]

Maybe Catholics feel guilty leaving because they're taught that they are leaving the "one true church". Personally, I think that attitude leads to the arrogance exhibited in people like William Donahoe and several patrons at the church I used to go to.

I, myself, wanted a church that I wanted to go to...not that I was supposed to go to. I don't agree with several Catholic principles (i.e. one man is infallible, birth control is bad, annulments, etc.) Why would I stay and live a lie?

As I am FAR from a well spoken apologist, I won't comment deeply on these statements, but again, these answers are exactly what confuse me. Arrogance in considering the Catholic church to be the "one true church"? What other church, Christian, can trace it's roots all the way back to Peter? The rock, etc.? Most protestant denominations were started hundreds of years after Christ died. Sorry, I'll stick with the Church, and teachings, that Christ himself started.

As far as wanting to go to a church? Again, I actually enjoy getting up on Sunday's and going to Catholic mass. I look forward to it. How someone could not, is far beyond me. Christ is present in the Eucharist. We are celebrating him in a way that should be a sheer joy to anyone. This is the reason I attend mass. And yes, it makes me feel good. How any of this, and Christ's teachings are "a lie" are far beyond me.

I'll stop now, as I stated earlier, I'm not very good at arguing these points. I simply know what I believe, and what is true.

I won't comment further as it appears that my earlier post upset a few, and there are too many good folks on these boards to do that.

 

[pr surfer]

I left the church in 6th grade and never looked back.

All it took was 1 year at a Cathoic School to convince me to do that

The guilt quickly dissipated.

Now if someone can teach me how to get rid of the Jewish neurosis that my mother instilled in me, I'll be all set.

 

[Wishing on a star]

When one is talking about 'religion' that has been impounded into ones psyche (brainwashing and psychological control) it has NOTHING to do with whether something might be 'wrong'...

It is a widely known fact/phenomenom that even individuals who have been forcibly held hostage for any length of time often end up feeling a psychological connection to their captors and actually feel guilty and have to be 'de-programmed'... It has NOTHING to do with whether the situation is wrong or right.

I think that those who are saying that those who have left the Catholic Church must be feeling guilt because they have done something 'wrong' are WAY OUT OF LINE.

I really feel for those who felt so much of the brainwashing and false 'guilt' that they actually felt that they had to return to have their children baptized, etc... But, know, years of psychological control and brainwashing that if you do not do this in a CATHOLIC church your children will die and suffer... that will have that effect... Has NOTHING to do with whether one is right or wrong... has everything to do with control and fear....

We are programmed to feel 'guilty' when we do not meet the 'expectations' of our parents, our church, our family, friends, etc... This has NOTHING to do with whether those expectations were right or wrong to begin with.

 

[Wishing on a star]

Maybe Catholics feel guilty leaving because they're taught that they are leaving the "one true church". Personally, I think that attitude leads to the arrogance exhibited in people like William Donahoe and several patrons at the church I used to go to.

I, myself, wanted a church that I wanted to go to...not that I was supposed to go to. I don't agree with several Catholic principles (i.e. one man is infallible, birth control is bad, annulments, etc.) Why would I stay and live a lie?

I soooo agree!

 

[Wishing on a star]

I was a former Catholic for a while, but actually went back. The trick is to find a Catholic church that doesn't actually look like one.

A catholic church that doesn't look like one...

If one doesn't want to attend a church that is 'like a catholic church' then why not just find another church that fits? (that brainwashing, perhaps...)

That is like saying, "I want to be a member of a Southern Baptist church, but not one that is really like a Southern Baptist church....

Makes NO sense..

 

[Wishing on a star]

I have the Catholic Guilt Syndrome and it was really pretty bad for years. Bad bad bad bad BAD bad. But then one day, I stopped going to church regularly and I felt the bad feeling slowly go away. I do feel guilty Sunday mornings but now I just shrug it off, go to an all-you-can-drink mimosa/bloody mary brunch downtown and I feel so much better.

Ding ding ding! I think you beat me. Doesn't four children out of wedlock beat a gay guy?

If that's the case and our day comes calling, I'll be at the hot place holding your "Welcome Home" gift basket and complimentary bag of ice. Don't forget to pack your sunscreen! It's HOT there from what I understand! But not to humid though..

 

[ead79]

I AM NOT looking for argument, or massive debate here, but I get rather confused when protestants, particularly those that are formerly Catholic, are happier outside of the Catholic church. It seems to me as though many other denominations simply change the rules to suit them, as they don't feel like being that "strict". Many of these "rules" are from the Bible itself, not necessarily the Catholic church. (i.e., birth control, abortion, attending mass etc. etc).

Anyway, don't mean to offend at all, but I'm finding the responses here rather interesting, as well as confusing.

As a Christian who attends a Protestant denomination church (Southern Baptist in my case), I thought I'd chime in with my thoughts about your question.

I do not attend a Catholic church because I don't agree with some of the Catholic church's teachings/doctrine. I believe that we should draw our beliefs from the Bible alone, and Catholics believe that church tradition should be taken into account along with Scripture.

For me it has nothing to do with being less "strict" and everything to do with areas that I consider very important where I think that the Catholic church has added restrictions that aren't found in Scripture or interpreted Scripture in a way that I don't believe is correct. As far as the "one true church" concept, I believe that Jesus began the Christian church as a whole, not the Catholic denomination. Of course, I understand that Catholics view this differently.

If you want some specific examples where I disagree with the traditional Catholic stance on an issue, I can list some of those out. But the above is my general answer.

 

[Wishing on a star]

I just came back to add... Everyone is talking about 'guilt', but I truly do think that the underlying issue is fear. Definitely FEAR. Always the FEAR of death and damnation and excommunication etc...

So, again, guilt based on feeling that one has truly done something wrong has absolutely nothing to do with it.