Casey Anthony Trial Thread #3

[MaryAnnDVC]

Very interesting article on TRACY CONROY who lived with CA for 9 days in Cindy and George's home in August 2008. Diane Dimond discussed this last night on Primetime.

"For nine days and nights in August 2008, Conroy lived inside the Anthony home and saw firsthand what she described as the “completely narcissistic world” in which Casey operated. “It was always all about her... and when she spoke of Caylee she talked about her in the past tense,” says Conroy. “It was clear to me she knew her daughter was already dead and [the search for Caylee] was all a big game to her.”

Conroy is a longtime employee of television bounty hunter Leonard Padilla, the man who orchestrated a $500,000 bond for Casey on August 21, 2008. As a condition of helping free their daughter, Padilla got parents George and Cindy Anthony to agree to allow his colleague, Conroy, to move into the Anthony home for 24/7 protection. (Conroy’s cohabitation ended after Casey was re-arrested on bad-check charges nine day later.) "


http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2011/06/22/casey-s-rommate-tells-all.html

NOT in the FIRST POST. LOL But, posted a few pages back. It's interesting reading, definitely.

I believe they are truly trying to do their best but they are just not qualified (with the exception of CM). By all accounts, this witness could be powerful. He has a great deal of experience with science and with testifying. He could provide reasonable doubt but the defense needs to know how to ask the right questions of this guy. The defense has managed to confuse their own witness because they are such bumbling fools. The jury has lost interest and the defense doesn't seem to know how to get themselves out of this mess.

Time after time I have heard the commentators say that Baez made a good point and was heading in the right direction but he either drones on and on and loses everyone or he gets off track and the little point he was making to prove reasonable doubt is lost. More qualified attorneys would close the deal. They would make their point without hours worth of testimony. Look how fast Ashton generally is. He asks the question, makes the point and moves on.

I don't think they're GOOD lawyers, but I don't think what they've done qualifies as incompetent or ineffective, in legal terms, to qualify as grounds for a mistrial or overturn of a conviction. I think part of the reason they look so bad is that the prosecution looks so good, based on experience, and just having a good case against a (IMHO) guilty person.

 

[momrek06]

It's interesting reading, definitely.

 

[TLSnell1981]

I wonder if George and Cindy came out with their opinion of guilt yesterday, before JB calls her to the stand today. It's almost like a warning to him not to ask too much because he may not like her answers.

Your right I just realized this. Maybe they feel left out with everyone else doing this. I wonder what Casey thinks since her parents dont think she is innocent. If she knows. I wonder if that is something Baez will ask her.

Why are "commentators" saying, he hasn't denied, saying this?

"I've never said they thought she was guilty," Lippman said. "I only said they have no idea what happened. They have no idea what the facts are. That's why they're sitting in the courtroom every single day. They hope they can get some semblance of truth."Lippman added that "obviously" there was some misunderstanding in the reporting.

He said his statements were taken and "qualified to say that my clients think she is guilty...Based on his story it sounds like I was saying my clients think she is guilty of murder. I never said that. And any inference to that is wrong."

Lippman added that "obviously" there was some misunderstanding in the reporting.

He said his statements were taken and "qualified to say that my clients think she is guilty...Based on his story it sounds like I was saying my clients think she is guilty of murder. I never said that. And any inference to that is wrong."

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/os-casey-anthony-george-cindy-cnn-20110623,0,2311080.story

 

[Nancy]

I don't think we know where she started digging, or if she did. The dogs hit right outside the playhouse. So in theory, I'm guessing she would have laid Caylee down there if she tried to dig inside the house.

My thought was that is where she laid her down to (I cringe just typing what comes next) put her into the laundry bag/trash bags..whatever. Maybe she killed her in the backyard by the playhouse.

"oh Caylee, come on outside and let's play a game" and that is where she used the duct tape.

For a while I was thinking accidental death, but now I just can't get past the use of the duct tape.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

This may not be a very popular opinion but I am going to say it anyway.

I feel everyone is entitled to fair and competent representation and I am now of the belief that Casey is not getting that. Baez and Sims are not qualified to handle a case of this magnitude. I want Casey put away for life but this representation is going to be the death of the state. I truly believe there are grounds for a mistrial based on inappropriate representation. I hate that idea but these lawyers are not qualified. I have tried to laugh it off and laugh at their mistakes for the past few weeks but they are bumbling this process and that is not the way things are suppose to be done in the USA. As much as I despise what Casey did, she is entitled to fair representation and she is clearly not getting that.

I agree...however...

It seems the litmus for incompetence is very high and Casey already had a hearing and signed documents that showed she understood Jose's lack of qualifications but went with him anyway. Plus it is a team of 5 attorneys.

That appeal will falter.

 

[NEVERENOUGHWDW]

Dorothy Sims is not a criminal lawyer. Her specialty is social security/disability work. She has never tried a murder case or any type of felony case where the sentencing would be more than 5 years.

Why dos that make you cry?

CA has a team of lawyers. Mason if capable he just isn't allowed to be the talking head.
I will say the night before court it would be refreshing if they could learn how to pronunciate words they are going to use the next day.

 

[LisaR]

Why dos that make you cry?

CA has a team of lawyers. Mason if capable he just isn't allowed to be the talking head.
I will say the night before court it would be refreshing if they could learn how to pronunciate words they are going to use the next day.

It was suppose to be a sad face instead of a crying face.

I think it is very sad that the defense team consists of unqualified attorneys. I am guessing the people working behind the scenes are just as unqualified.

I wouldn't want this team defending my daughter for a traffic ticket much less a murder charge - even if she was guilty.

 

[MaryAnnDVC]

Have the commentators (InSession or whatever) mentioning Barry Logan's resignation from the crime lab in 2008??

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2004183869_logan15m.html

 

[kidshop]

Your right I just realized this. Maybe they feel left out with everyone else doing this. I wonder what Casey thinks since her parents dont think she is innocent. If she knows. I wonder if that is something Baez will ask her.

Well, since her defense is that George was there at the 'drowning' and then he covered it up for her, I don't think she's too surprised.

George knows if he was there or not, and if he wasn't; they know Casey was directly involved in her death.

 

[chris1gill]

Have the commentators (InSession or whatever) mentioning Barry Logan's resignation from the crime lab in 2008??

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2004183869_logan15m.html

The local news commentators are commenting on it, they expect Ashton to either start with that or weave it in with finesse... I hope he does, if in fact they ever get to a cross examination with this witness

 

[poohluvrs]

I am just glad Caylee has such dedicated representation. I type dedicated (although I also think they are highly qualified) b/c it is pretty obvious they have put their heart and soul into this trial and the same can in no way be said for the defense. CA's choice in Baez is fitting, I think they are both so blinded by love for themselves that she can't accept what is in store for her just as much as he can't allow Mason to step in and take the reigns from him.

I think CA has made her bed every step of the way and I feel zero remorse for her. I can only hope justice is served for little Caylee.

 

[ajksmom]

do you believe george sexually abused casey? i know only that le wanted to know if he could've been the father and that looks suspicious to me. I cannot find in any witness statements anything that made them wonder, about lee yes, but george no.

do you believe that factors into casey's behavior? it could i guess, i would think it factors more into george's - guilty for the part he played in creating the monster that casey has/had become.


if not, do you know what would cause casey to continue to lie for not only the 31 days but to continue the lies after she was arrested? it appears to me that everyday of casey's life was at least partly a lie for at least a few years. And she got away with it; pretending to go to work, pretending to have a nanny, spending freely on her mom's and others dime, etc. At some point when caught stealing (i think from shirley) cindy even said "she only did it once" as though that was okay. Lying had worked very well for casey thus far, it's how she "coped" with anything standing in her way of getting what she wanted.


was she really more afraid of cindy's wrath than jail, prison, the death penalty? i believe that because she had yet to pay the piper for any of her lies that (at least initially) she didn't think anyone could possibly call her out on it.


even if you do believe casey was sexually abused by george, do you think her partying, happy-go-lucky behavior during the 31 days was "normal" behavior given the circumstances?i believe "normal" behavior after someones death is anything out of the ordinary. I cannot imagine going out and partying after the loss of a loved one.but it seems like casey was quite used to "living a lie" and i don't doubt for a minute that someone like that could per se put themselves into a different place.

[/quote]

Kristy

 

[hambirg]

I don't have a lot of time right now. . .so first, Kurby I hope you are feeling better. I know it sucks to have to stay in the hospital when you wanted to go home, but it's always better to be safe than sorry. Soon your little girl will be here!

Second, regarding ineffective assistance of counsel, it must meet two requirements:

First, the defendant must show that counsel’s performance was deficient. This requires showing that counsel made errors so serious that counsel was not functioning as the "counsel" guaranteed the defendant by the Sixth Amendment.

Second, the defendant must show that the deficient performance prejudiced the defense. This requires showing that counsel’s errors were so serious as to deprive the defendant of a fair trial, a trial whose result is reliable.

http://www.caught.net/caught/ineffec.htm

If you follow the link it will show examples of the first requirement. As bad as Bozo et al are, I still don't think they meet that requirement. They are trying, however badly, to represent CA.

This stuck out to me as far as the second requirement:

The reasonableness of counsel's actions may be determined or substantially influenced by the defendant's own statements or actions. Counsel's actions are usually based, quite properly, on informed strategic choices made by the defendant and on information supplied by the defendant. In particular, what investigation decisions are reasonable depends critically on such information. For example, when the facts that support a certain potential line of defense are generally known to counsel because of what the defendant has said, the need for further investigation may be considerably diminished or eliminated altogether. And when a defendant has given counsel reason to believe that pursuing certain investigations would be fruitless or even harmful, counsel's failure to pursue those investigations may not later be challenged as unreasonable. In short, inquiry into counsel's conversations with the defendant may be critical to a proper assessment of counsel's investigation decisions, just as it may be critical to a proper assessment of counsel's other litigation decisions.

So basically, IMHO, they are going by what CA has told them. The fact that it is not a very good defense (most likely because it is just more of her lies, that can't be proven) is not really their fault. They are trying to provide a defense. . .it's just not a very good one.

 

[ajksmom]

That's all fine and good. . .and possibly plausible. BUT the part that leaves me shaking my head is the "where is Caylee?" stuff. The state repeated that many times during there opening statement. And if the defense's scenario is to be believed, then they will have to fill in those gaps. What happened after finding her drowned and deciding to cover it up? What did they DO with her? Wrap her in a blanket, and some bags and a laundry bag (from the house mind you) and then what? Put her in the playhouse? And then in the trunk of CA'S car for several days? And then, of course! They handed her decomposing body off to the meter reader guy. . .after they put duck tape on her and the gas can. . .because that would all make logical sense if you were trying to cover up the death of a toddler.

If they can't tell us what happened during the cover-up in the drowning scenario, then they lose. And in order to do that, they would have to put CA on the stand. It would come down to her word against George. And in my opinion, they lose there too.

I am also inpatiently waiting to hear JB present us with more evidence to support his opening statement.

If you're asking me for my version I can say the whole JB "trying" to refute the evidence of a body in the trunk doesn't make any sense. However, did LE ever look into any other family vehicles? Perhaps George's vehicle was used?

I actually believe at some point her body was placed on the site off of Suburban Dr. I find it odd that Equuasearch(sp?) called off their search of the site in I believe August due to so much water, but there are statements made from volunteers there that day who didn't see any water.

My mom has told me a few things that I haven't been able to find in statements or such.

One being that LE listened in on JB and Casey speaking, and she identified the site on Suburban Dr but someone caught wind of this, told their boyfriend (who may or may not be Kronk) and when LE got out there, there was no body.
Two being that some neighbors heard screaming and crying in that area and called 911 but when the police came to check it out they heard nothing. And of course they didn't go in to look.....again.
Lastly, has anyone heard that Equuasearch is looking for a ghost writer to pen the book about the search?

Thanks
Kristy

 

[CurlyGirl]

While I do agree with you that Sims and Baez are not doing a very good job with their presentation and handling of the case in order for a verdict to be overturned based upon inadequate representation the lawyer would literally have to be drunk, on drugs, absent or asleep during the trial. The fact that they are not calling appropriate witnesses or asking good questions is a matter of our opinion. They are putting up a defense (albeit not a good one in our judgement). She has chosen these lawyers and they are putting up a defense case. Just because the prosecution is doing a better job (in your & my opinion) doesn't mean that she has a mistrail in the works.

Exactly!!! I agree completely with this!

 

[CurlyGirl]

But.....but......but........I'll work on another Kronk story. Would that let me back into the club?

Do you need me to start thinking like a sociopath again and come up with a theory for you to throw dialogue to?

 

[Kurby]

Hey Kurby,
Stop watching Baez make a fool of himself and your BP might go down. Did your BP go up when you started watching the trial? HAHAHA

I hope everything is ok with you and Nicole. You are in my prayers.

As a matter of fact. Lol but I think that was just timing

I was given meds and bp now down to normal but staying another night at least. Nicole looks great. Longs full and nice hydrops almost gone

 

[Wadecool]

I am just glad Caylee has such dedicated representation. I type dedicated (although I also think they are highly qualified) b/c it is pretty obvious they have put their heart and soul into this trial and the same can in no way be said for the defense. CA's choice in Baez is fitting, I think they are both so blinded by love for themselves that she can't accept what is in store for her just as much as he can't allow Mason to step in and take the reigns from him.

I think CA has made her bed every step of the way and I feel zero remorse for her. I can only hope justice is served for little Caylee.

Great post! Totally agree with it, especially the part about Casey and Baez deserving each other.

 

[MaryAnnDVC]

As a matter of fact. Lol but I think that was just timing

I was given meds and bp now down to normal but staying another night at least. Nicole looks great. Longs full and nice hydrops almost gone

Wonderful!

 

[usnuzuloose]

As a matter of fact. Lol but I think that was just timing

I was given meds and bp now down to normal but staying another night at least. Nicole looks great. Longs full and nice hydrops almost gone

I am so glad that your BP came down I hope you can go home tomorrow. Just dont watch Baez so your Bp wont go up.