Casey Anthony TRIAL thread #2

[Wadecool]

I don't buy it for multiple reasons:

1. I don't believe anything that comes out of the mouth of Padilla.

2. Where was Casey leaving Caylee after drugging her? In her car at a nightclub? I can't believe nobody noticed a passed out little body in a car. In the trunk? I think Caylee would have been scared if she was being locked in a trunk regularly and wouldn't have been the incredibly happy girl that we have seen pictures and videos of. In one of her friend's apartments? I think most of these people can't stand Casey now and one would have come clean and said what they suspected Casey was doing to Caylee.

3. It would take a lot of Xanax to knock someone out for most of the night. I know Caylee was just a baby but still, she would have to have the right dosage to keep her out like a light or she risked Caylee wandering out of the
car or apartment in a drug induced fog. Xanax can make someone tired but it
isn't a sleeping pill.

4. George and Cindy spent more time with Caylee than anyone. I find it hard to believe they wouldn't notice their granddaughter was under the influence a good deal of the time.

5. Casey didn't pull the name Zanny out of thin air. Zanaida went to the same apartment complex Casey went to with her boyfriend to look for a place to live. Zanaida filled out an information card and that is where Casey came up with the name.

Obviously, this is just my opinion. I could be wrong. I doubt we will ever get the real truth anyway.

You make some excellent points and as you point out we are all just throwing darts here anyway. The only person who knows what went down will likely take the truth with her to the lethal injection table (hopefully). While I do think that Padilla is doing a lot of self promotion here, he was inside the Anthony home during height of the storm, so I think he does have some relevant insight into Casey's behavior. How much, I have no idea. I also agree that if Caylee was being drugged, Casey would have had to stash her somewhere other than inside the car. Orlando in June is HOT, so if she left Caylee drugged in the car, it would have needed to be left running with the a/c on, and that would have drawn too much attention.

 

[MaryAnnDVC]

Cindy testified that Casey had talked about Zanny (not Zenaida) for 2 years.

It's so hard to know what to believe about any of them. Maybe she was using Xanax on Caylee and calling it "Zanny the nanny." It certainly wouldn't surprise me. Doesn't mean she was keeping her drugged, or that anyone would necessarily see signs. Or, they did see signs that they didn't realize, hindsight being 20/20.

Didn't friends claim that Caylee could sleep through parties? But then again...I've been surprised at times what my kids have slept through. The night before DD's christening, we hung pictures in her room, hammering nails into a wall, while she slept. (No drugs involved!)

I've taken Ativan. While one will help me sleep, two will make me groggy the next day. There's a huge difference. Same thing with Sominex...if I ever take it, I take half of one, and I'm fine the next day...a whole one, very groggy. If Casey gave Caylee "a little" Xanax to get her to sleep, it doesn't necessarily mean she'd be drugged and groggy the next day.

I think Cindy was watching Caylee when Casey was telling her friends that Caylee was with the nanny, and that Caylee was with Casey at friends' houses when she was telling Cindy she was at work. I don't believe that Caylee was drugged and in the trunk, ever, except perhaps that last day. It seems like all of her friends were recent (in 2008). I can't help thinking that Casey found this new life with all these new friends, was going out more, wanted her mother to watch Caylee more, there was increasing conflict, and then...what happened happened.

I'm reading through the thread that Seahunt started back in 2008. I was just reading the transcript of the 911 call about the dead body in the car, when George walked in and defense is saying all he said is "what?", and that he wasn't yelling. At one point, Cindy says something inaudible, and then says "I'm on the phone with them." So obviously, George asked a question, or stated she should call 911, and we didn't hear that. So we CAN'T hear everything anyone said there. Just sayin'.

 

[Kurby]

ya but all this "drugging" her for 2 years - she was only 2 1/2 years old.

why would she need to drug a 6 month old?

plus all she had to do was tell her parents she had to work and BOOM instant babysitters.

i honestly dont see why she would need to take her and drug her to go out and party. her parent were always there to watch her and her made up job made it so easy

 

[MaryAnnDVC]

ya but all this "drugging" her for 2 years - she was only 2 1/2 years old.

why would she need to drug a 6 month old?

plus all she had to do was tell her parents she had to work and BOOM instant babysitters.

i honestly dont see why she would need to take her and drug her to go out and party. her parent were always there to watch her and her made up job made it so easy

Caylee was almost 3 when she was killed. Casey said it had been about a year and a half that she had used "Zanny the Nanny" and offhand, I'm not sure Cindy would know exactly when Casey claimed she had a nanny named Zanny. So, if there's any truth to anything Casey says, Caylee could have been about 18 months old.

Why would any "normal" person drug a child? They wouldn't. Someone like Casey? Keep her sleepy when she needed to.

Her parents weren't always there to watch her. They both worked, if not consistently. I'm expecting a grandchild, and I'll be a wonderful grandmother but I wouldn't be tying up my life so my DD could be going out all the time. I don't think it was as simple as Casey saying "I have to work" and voila! George and Cindy could/would watch her. And again, it sounded like as time went on, Casey was away from home more and more. I'm guessing they had some fights about that, and those alleged arguments about Casey not being a fit mother.

 

[Wadecool]

Caylee was almost 3 when she was killed. Casey said it had been about a year and a half that she had used "Zanny the Nanny" and offhand, I'm not sure Cindy would know exactly when Casey claimed she had a nanny named Zanny. So, if there's any truth to anything Casey says, Caylee could have been about 18 months old.

Why would any "normal" person drug a child? They wouldn't. Someone like Casey? Keep her sleepy when she needed to.

Her parents weren't always there to watch her. They both worked, if not consistently. I'm expecting a grandchild, and I'll be a wonderful grandmother but I wouldn't be tying up my life so my DD could be going out all the time. I don't think it was as simple as Casey saying "I have to work" and voila! George and Cindy could/would watch her. And again, it sounded like as time went on, Casey was away from home more and more. I'm guessing they had some fights about that, and those alleged arguments about Casey not being a fit mother.

Let's face it, if there ever was a real person named "Zanny the nanny" the detectives would have found her. So if Casey had been telling her mom that Zanny had been watching Caylee for as long as she claimed, my money's on Xanex pills being "Zanny".
There are just too many pieces to this puzzle that point to Casey being the killer in my mind: research on how to make chloroform on the computer, her continual lying to her parents and the cops about where Caylee really was (since the nanny didn't exist), its all just too much.

My question of the week though is this: If Jose Baez is really going with the defense of Caylee accidentally drowning in the pool, George finding her and disposing of the body, why is he trying so hard to discredit all the evidence from the trunk of the Pontiac Sunfire? With his defense that he claimed in his opening statement, George would have used Casey's car to get rid of the body and that's how the hair and the smell would have gotten there. I'm not thinking Baez is the smartest guy out there.

 

[joviroxx]

My question of the week though is this: If Jose Baez is really going with the defense of Caylee accidentally drowning in the pool, George finding her and disposing of the body, why is he trying so hard to discredit all the evidence from the trunk of the Pontiac Sunfire? With his defense that he claimed in his opening statement, George would have used Casey's car to get rid of the body and that's how the hair and the smell would have gotten there. I'm not thinking Baez is the smartest guy out there.

Ive asked this same question. Its a schizophrenic defense! The little girl died accidently or so they claim. So why fight the evidence that she dies? I don't get it and I think it will be what kills the defense. They need to stick with a defense and explain the evidence to fit it otherwise, its just throwing things to see what sticks.

Same thing with Kronk, etc. If it was an accident and George helped to hide it all, then, really, who cares about Kronk?

 

[MaryAnnDVC]

Let's face it, if there ever was a real person named "Zanny the nanny" the detectives would have found her. So if Casey had been telling her mom that Zanny had been watching Caylee for as long as she claimed, my money's on Xanex pills being "Zanny".
There are just too many pieces to this puzzle that point to Casey being the killer in my mind: research on how to make chloroform on the computer, her continual lying to her parents and the cops about where Caylee really was (since the nanny didn't exist), its all just too much.

My question of the week though is this: If Jose Baez is really going with the defense of Caylee accidentally drowning in the pool, George finding her and disposing of the body, why is he trying so hard to discredit all the evidence from the trunk of the Pontiac Sunfire? With his defense that he claimed in his opening statement, George would have used Casey's car to get rid of the body and that's how the hair and the smell would have gotten there. I'm not thinking Baez is the smartest guy out there.

It's been pretty well established as fact that there is no actual nanny, Zanny or otherwise. I agree that there had probably been Xanax involved. I don't agree with others' assessment of Casey drugging her on a regular basis, or that it would be obvious that Caylee was drugged, nor that Caylee was necessarily left somewhere. I'm not sure if we have much of an idea how much actual partying Casey even did BEFORE June 16/17. We see pictures of her partying like crazy after that, but before that, who knows.

Lord only knows where Baez is going to end up with his story about what happened that day. He left it very open ended in his opening statement. He doesn't say what happens next after Casey cradled her dead daughter in her arms crying rolleyes: ), and then covered up with her happy face and lying, as she learned to do from her family, does he? Did he ever mention who was responsible for getting rid of the body, or is that where Roy Kronk comes in? Honestly, I think he's waiting to see how things play out with the prosecution's case, and then he'll pick and choose what he thinks works best. On The View, Chris Cuomo (ABC News Chief Legal Reporter) said that the defense claims that George FORCED his daughter to bury Caylee. Was that EVER claimed, anywhere? Or is Chris Cuomo pulling that one out of his ptootie?

 

[Kurby]

i didn't see the opening until 2 days ago on some show - they showed a clip that had dippy saying something like

she learned to lie after having her fathers ***** in her mouth one minute then going to school the next.

i was like did he really open with THAT???????

i haven't seen a lot of trials but i've never heard of a defence team opening with that kind of statement - they usually say something like - we'll show why this behavour happened or something along those lines but they don't come right out and say it in opening.

PLUS.

i don't care if he did do that -THAT is not a defense to murder your own child years and years later - kill your father ok i can see it but not your child.

not to mention he's now locked himself into that stupid defence that has been questioned within the first 7 days of the trial

 

[joviroxx]

Honestly, I think he's waiting to see how things play out with the prosecution's case, and then he'll pick and choose what he thinks works best. On The View, Chris Cuomo (ABC News Chief Legal Reporter) said that the defense claims that George FORCED his daughter to bury Caylee. Was that EVER claimed, anywhere? Or is Chris Cuomo pulling that one out of his ptootie?

Well, right now to me, they look like a desperate defense. Like they can barely breathe after being hit in the solar plexus! I think the prosecution is doing an amazing job laying it all out. Step by step, layer by layer. Linda Drane Burdick and Jeff Ashtons experience is showing and I find myself enthralled watching them.

I also wonder when the defense made the decision that Baez cross examine the experts. I thought that was why Dorothy Sims was brought aboard as that was her expertise. She did all the questioning of experts during the pre trial hearings.

Tomorrow is Dr Vass. Not sure who might have seen him testify during the Frye hearings. He is this science geek who loves what he does and is fascinated by science. I loved him! I usually find some of these scientist to be a little out there but I really enjoyed his testimony. Really looking forward to seeing him on the stand tomorrow.

 

[Wadecool]

It's been pretty well established as fact that there is no actual nanny, Zanny or otherwise. I agree that there had probably been Xanax involved. I don't agree with others' assessment of Casey drugging her on a regular basis, or that it would be obvious that Caylee was drugged, nor that Caylee was necessarily left somewhere. I'm not sure if we have much of an idea how much actual partying Casey even did BEFORE June 16/17. We see pictures of her partying like crazy after that, but before that, who knows.

Lord only knows where Baez is going to end up with his story about what happened that day. He left it very open ended in his opening statement. He doesn't say what happens next after Casey cradled her dead daughter in her arms crying rolleyes: ), and then covered up with her happy face and lying, as she learned to do from her family, does he? Did he ever mention who was responsible for getting rid of the body, or is that where Roy Kronk comes in? Honestly, I think he's waiting to see how things play out with the prosecution's case, and then he'll pick and choose what he thinks works best. On The View, Chris Cuomo (ABC News Chief Legal Reporter) said that the defense claims that George FORCED his daughter to bury Caylee. Was that EVER claimed, anywhere? Or is Chris Cuomo pulling that one out of his ptootie?

I have been watching way too much of the legal analysis of this trial and I haven't heard anyone saying anything about George forcing Casey to bury Caylee. The truth of what really happened with Caylee is so totally unknown as well as where Baez is ultimately going with their defense, that I think some of these legal experts are just firing off scenarios blindly hoping that if their's is the right one, then they'll look smart.

I agree with you that Baez is trying wait and see what the prosecution finishes with before he goes with a final plan of action. Most of the experts I've heard so far all agree that because of the sexual allegations Baez made against George in his opening statement, Casey is probably going to have to take the stand to back it up. That would be the only way that the defense could get it out for the jury to hear about it. Believe me, if Casey does take the stand, I'm taking that day off from work because that tough prosecuting attorney will rip her to shreds on cross examination.

 

[richmond282]

Click on this link - I always was impressed by this particular photo comparison someone had questioned as a "could it be"?

http://i509.photobucket.com/albums/s336/starshineinca/caylee.jpg

Who is that??

I don't really understand how the defense is going to say that George disposed of the body and still explain the smell. That body had to have been in the trunk for longer than it would have taken to just drive to the dump site straight from the house. I can't imagine George (even if I thought he helped) leaving a body in the trunk for several days. He also would not have brought that car home from the tow company if he knew what the smell was because he supposedly disposed of the body.

I'm certainly not in the camp that Casey is innocent, but I haven't decided whether I think it was premeditated or not. She doesn't seem like the type to plan things in advance, but then there were the computer searches. There was also the flurry of calls to Cindy on the 16th around 4 pm. It makes me wnoder if Casey had done something stupid and was tryin to get in touch with mom to come "fix" it.

 

[Kurby]

just from what i've heard and her lifestyle i am in the "spir of the moment" camp.

i really don't think it was premeditated

i think ssomething happened to piss her off and it got out of hand.

though i am wondering about the cloriform and maybe that's what happened. maybe she had used it in the past to keep caylee quiet but gave her too much this time.

 

[MaryAnnDVC]

Well, right now to me, they look like a desperate defense. Like they can barely breathe after being hit in the solar plexus! I think the prosecution is doing an amazing job laying it all out. Step by step, layer by layer. Linda Drane Burdick and Jeff Ashtons experience is showing and I find myself enthralled watching them.

I also wonder when the defense made the decision that Baez cross examine the experts. I thought that was why Dorothy Sims was brought aboard as that was her expertise. She did all the questioning of experts during the pre trial hearings.

Tomorrow is Dr Vass. Not sure who might have seen him testify during the Frye hearings. He is this science geek who loves what he does and is fascinated by science. I loved him! I usually find some of these scientist to be a little out there but I really enjoyed his testimony. Really looking forward to seeing him on the stand tomorrow.

I love watching the prosecutors too. They're so capable and on track. Altho, I do have to say, I wish Burdick wouldn't get impatient with witnesses. She scares me. I'd have a lump in my throat if she snapped at me. But at least it come off as impatient (IMHO) and not accusatory and whiney like Bozo and Mason.

Maybe the defense team feels like they need big man voices to attack the experts, and not the cooing Simms lady. I don't think I ever watched pre-trial hearings, so I don't know what she may otherwise be like. And I have this picture of her in my head of her just about putting her head on Casey's shoulder when Casey was distraught over her mother leaving the stand and being comforted by her husband. I don't think I've ever seen Vass...now I'm looking forward to it.

I have been watching way too much of the legal analysis of this trial and I haven't heard anyone saying anything about George forcing Casey to bury Caylee. The truth of what really happened with Caylee is so totally unknown as well as where Baez is ultimately going with their defense, that I think some of these legal experts are just firing off scenarios blindly hoping that if their's is the right one, then they'll look smart.

I agree with you that Baez is trying wait and see what the prosecution finishes with before he goes with a final plan of action. Most of the experts I've heard so far all agree that because of the sexual allegations Baez made against George in his opening statement, Casey is probably going to have to take the stand to back it up. That would be the only way that the defense could get it out for the jury to hear about it. Believe me, if Casey does take the stand, I'm taking that day off from work because that tough prosecuting attorney will rip her to shreds on cross examination.

You're right. I think reporters are getting confused about what's fact, what's put out there by the defense, and what they (the reporters) think they heard of each.

If Casey takes the stand, I think it will break TV watching records. I know I'll be watching.

just from what i've heard and her lifestyle i am in the "spir of the moment" camp.

i really don't think it was premeditated

i think ssomething happened to piss her off and it got out of hand.

though i am wondering about the cloriform and maybe that's what happened. maybe she had used it in the past to keep caylee quiet but gave her too much this time.

I think Casey was getting to a point where she was, at the very least, fantasizing about what life without Caylee could be like for her. I think she did those searches in the process. Whether or not she planned prior to the actual death to actually kill her then and there. Too many things, IMHO, point to premeditation, but I can see others POV too. I just hate that we'll never really know the truth. I hate unsolved mysteries.

 

[TLSnell1981]

Same thing with Kronk, etc. If it was an accident and George helped to hide it all, then, really, who cares about Kronk?

Never mind missed earlier post, regarding Kronk. Duplicated info.

 

[denisem]

Click on this link - I always was impressed by this particular photo comparison someone had questioned as a "could it be"?

http://i509.photobucket.com/albums/s336/starshineinca/caylee.jpg

Whoa! That's pretty incredible. I'd seen pictures of Jesse Grund and this photo didn't fit. Did a bit of searching and found the photo is J P Chatt. I think he was another Tony L roommate? Off to do some searching, let you know what I find out...

 

[plutotek]

When it comes to Baez's opening statement, it was a seed. From that point, his focus has to be on fertilizing (he's got THAT down ) that seed so that the doubt of the prosecution's case grows. However, he doesn't have to prove his theory is fact. I think he's going to be successful in creating enough doubt that she will be found not guilty of the most serious charge, but not the rest.

 

[sorcerormickey]

Speaking of Kronk..Padilla commented,, that Kronk's girlfriend works at the jail. She eavesdropped on Casey's private conversations WITH her attorney, and knew were the body was. They just had to wait for water levels to drop, so the area would be accessible.

NO WAY!! IS THAT TRUE??????


On a side note, SO is making me leave the house tomorrow ( ) so I will have to keep track of stuff on my phone.

 

[kidshop]

Ive asked this same question. Its a schizophrenic defense! The little girl died accidently or so they claim. So why fight the evidence that she dies? I don't get it and I think it will be what kills the defense. They need to stick with a defense and explain the evidence to fit it otherwise, its just throwing things to see what sticks.

Same thing with Kronk, etc. If it was an accident and George helped to hide it all, then, really, who cares about Kronk?

Although this may be giving Jose too much credit, he may try going with that even when confronted with overwhelming reality, Cindy chooses to turn a blind eye. 1)They didn't know she was pregnant, 2)they never asked who the father was or tried to find her other set of grandparents if the father was dead 3)they never met Caylee's nanny who was noted to be around a few years, not even a phone number for her 4) they believed Casey had a job and was going to work, even as she was stealing from them. For YEARS. 5) Cindy believed until 6 weeks ago Zanny was real and was looking for her.

Where I'm going with this is if the alleged abuse defense is true, Cindy would choose not to see it just like every other instance named. She would just pretend it was not happening. Everyone knew Zanny was imaginary since July 2008, why didn't Cindy? I know she doesn't want Casey to get the death penalty, but come on!

For the record I do not believe the abuse defense or that George was involved. But I think they can cast some reasonable doubt based on the unbelievable life they all lived.

 

[Kurby]

ya but there are a lot of parents who don't see or believe what's right in front of them.

how about all those parents of bullies who say - nooooo not my child. my son/daughter would never ever do that even if there is cell phone video of their kid beating the crap out of another kid those parents will often make up some kind of excuse as to why it's not THEIR childs fault.

makes you just wanna slap the parent for being so stupid/blind/trusting whatever of their child.

maybe cindy was one of those parents who thought KC could do no wrong even if they did have their fights and problems maybe cindy thought - she wouldn't lie to me with the important stuff.

 

[EMom]

I don't see any resemblance to anyone besides Cindy in Caylee's face. Take the bleached blonde hair off Cindy and replace it with brown and I have always thought Caylee was a smaller version of Cindy. She does not look like her mother at all.

As far as first degree murder is concerned, I did a quick check re Florida and it seems you can be guilty of this if you commit premeditated murder (and in some states, that can be formed "in the blink of an eye") OR if you commit felony murder.

This is a much easier fit for felony murder as first degree murder and can also earn the death penalty. If the state proves the child was killed because aggravated child abuse was being committed, that is felony murder. You do not need intent to kill. Much easier standard to meet.