Carrying Guns

[Magpie]

 

[bcla]

The thing is, when he's in Canada, no one knows he's a police officer. He has no authority. He's a private citizen and expected to act as such.

For the record, this is what he wrote:

"I recently visited Calgary from Michigan. As a police officer for 20 years, it feels strange not to carry my off-duty hand-gun. Many would say I have no need to carry one in Canada. Yet the police cannot protect everyone all the time. A man should be allowed to protect himself if the need arises. The need arose in a theatre in Aurora, Colo., as well as a college campus in Canada. Recently, while out for a walk in Nose Hill Park, in broad daylight on a paved trail, two young men approached my wife and me. The men stepped in front of us, then said in a very aggressive tone: “Been to the Stampede yet?” We ignored them. The two moved closer, repeating: “Hey, you been to the Stampede yet? I quickly moved between these two and my wife, replying, “Gentlemen, I have no need to talk with you, goodbye.” They looked bewildered, and we then walked past them. I speculate they did not have good intentions when they approached in such an aggressive, disrespectful and menacing manner. I thank the Lord Jesus Christ they did not pull a weapon of some sort, but rather concluded it was in their best interest to leave us alone. Would we not expect a uniformed officer to pull his or her weapon to intercede in a life-or-death encounter to protect self, or another? Why then should the expectation be lower for a citizen of Canada or a visitor? Wait, I know – it’s because in Canada, only the criminals and the police carry handguns. Walt Wawra, Kalamazoo, Mich."

I interpreted this to mean he would have pulled a weapon, if he'd had one. You're quite right, though, that may not necessarily be the case. Maybe he would have felt so secure, just having that weapon on him, that he wouldn't have felt the need to pull it. Maybe that feeling of security would even have led him to perceive the young men in a friendlier manner.

However, as I said before, I rather disapprove of using a gun as a security blanket. So, that scenario isn't really much better, imo.

You never know. It sounds more like he's tilting at imaginary windmills.

And of course you can get cases like the one in Florida where an ex-cop with a legal right (via federal law) to carry shoots a guy who tosses popcorn at him in a movie theater.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I personally do not like to be around guns, so when I saw people discussing this, it didn't make me want to go to Disney.

I completely understand that feeling. I personally never want to touch a gun have never had a desire to own one or go to a shooting range but I have been around plenty of people who are gun owners and a couple that carry their guns with them on a holster. Both my mother-in-law and sister-in-law own guns. My husband has gone out to shooting ranges. Heck his company even had that as a 'health' activity a couple years ago that counted towards pointed needed for his wellness program in order to get a lower insurance premium.

It may depend on where you live in regards to the prevalence of guns (concealed or open) but there's no doubt you've probably been in the same vicinity as a gun owner with their gun on their person. But like a lot of things once it's brought to your attention you may feel more uneasy about it.

I don't pay $5,000 to go to Target.

Respectfully the amount of $ you spend on a Disney vacation has no relevance here at all. So many times I fail to see why people say "I paid X amount for Disney so ___".

If you're of the mindset of "I enjoy Disney because I don't have to think about ____" then that makes more sense in your concern for the presence of guns on Disney's property. But not because the money you paid for your Disney trip.

 

[KarenP64]

I completely understand that feeling. I personally never want to touch a gun have never had a desire to own one or go to a shooting range but I have been around plenty of people who are gun owners and a couple that carry their guns with them on a holster. Both my mother-in-law and sister-in-law own guns. My husband has gone out to shooting ranges. Heck his company even had that as a 'health' activity a couple years ago that counted towards pointed needed for his wellness program in order to get a lower insurance premium.

It may depend on where you live in regards to the prevalence of guns (concealed or open) but there's no doubt you've probably been in the same vicinity as a gun owner with their gun on their person. But like a lot of things once it's brought to your attention you may feel more uneasy about it.

Respectfully the amount of $ you spend on a Disney vacation has no relevance here at all. So many times I fail to see why people say "I paid X amount for Disney so ___".

If you're of the mindset of "I enjoy Disney because I don't have to think about ____" then that makes more sense in your concern for the presence of guns on Disney's property. But not because the money you paid for your Disney trip.

My point was, now that I know how prevalent they are at Disney & that people don't respect Disney's policies (which has been evident in this thread's responses), I'm not going to pay $5,000 for a Disney trip where I don't feel comfortable. I'll rent a house at a quiet NC beach instead. Choices...to each his own....

 

[Gumbo4x4]

The thing is, when he's in Canada, no one knows he's a police officer. He has no authority. He's a private citizen and expected to act as such.

For the record, this is what he wrote:

"I recently visited Calgary from Michigan. As a police officer for 20 years, it feels strange not to carry my off-duty hand-gun. Many would say I have no need to carry one in Canada. Yet the police cannot protect everyone all the time. A man should be allowed to protect himself if the need arises. The need arose in a theatre in Aurora, Colo., as well as a college campus in Canada. Recently, while out for a walk in Nose Hill Park, in broad daylight on a paved trail, two young men approached my wife and me. The men stepped in front of us, then said in a very aggressive tone: “Been to the Stampede yet?” We ignored them. The two moved closer, repeating: “Hey, you been to the Stampede yet? I quickly moved between these two and my wife, replying, “Gentlemen, I have no need to talk with you, goodbye.” They looked bewildered, and we then walked past them. I speculate they did not have good intentions when they approached in such an aggressive, disrespectful and menacing manner. I thank the Lord Jesus Christ they did not pull a weapon of some sort, but rather concluded it was in their best interest to leave us alone. Would we not expect a uniformed officer to pull his or her weapon to intercede in a life-or-death encounter to protect self, or another? Why then should the expectation be lower for a citizen of Canada or a visitor? Wait, I know – it’s because in Canada, only the criminals and the police carry handguns. Walt Wawra, Kalamazoo, Mich."

I interpreted this to mean he would have pulled a weapon, if he'd had one. You're quite right, though, that may not necessarily be the case. Maybe he would have felt so secure, just having that weapon on him, that he wouldn't have felt the need to pull it. Maybe that feeling of security would even have led him to perceive the young men in a friendlier manner.

However, as I said before, I rather disapprove of using a gun as a security blanket. So, that scenario isn't really much better, imo.

I didn't interpret that to indicate he'd have pulled his weapon if he'd had it. I interpreted it to mean that he wished he'd had his weapon because the event might have escalated.

 

[LYSE]

My point was, now that I know how prevalent they are at Disney & that people don't respect Disney's policies (which has been evident in this thread's responses), I'm not going to pay $5,000 for a Disney trip where I don't feel comfortable. I'll rent a house at a quiet NC beach instead. Choices...to each his own....

Better watch out, NC issues concealed weapons permits (And allows open carry without a permit) and has reciprocity with other states so visitors can carry as well...your looking at roughly about 7.7 percent of NC's population having permits + visitors and those carrying with Law Enforcement credentials.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

My point was, now that I know how prevalent they are at Disney & that people don't respect Disney's policies (which has been evident in this thread's responses), I'm not going to pay $5,000 for a Disney trip where I don't feel comfortable. I'll rent a house at a quiet NC beach instead. Choices...to each his own....

And my point is the amount of money you spend on a Disney trip is arbitrary.

It could be $1,000 or it could be $10,000..regardless your feelings of "I personally do not like to be around guns, so when I saw people discussing this, it didn't make me want to go to Disney." won't be altered if you chose to spend more or less. If that's the reason you're feeling uneasy about being at Disney no amount of $ you spend going to Disney will change that.

Unless you're saying that if you only spent $1,000 or $500, etc rather than $5,000 you'd want to go to Disney knowing there may be people who have guns with them on their trip.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

I don't pay $5,000 to go to Target.

My point was, now that I know how prevalent they are at Disney & that people don't respect Disney's policies (which has been evident in this thread's responses), I'm not going to pay $5,000 for a Disney trip where I don't feel comfortable. I'll rent a house at a quiet NC beach instead. Choices...to each his own....

I and my family easily spend $5000/year at WalMart and gas stations.

 

[Hikergirl]

I didn't interpret that to indicate he'd have pulled his weapon if he'd had it. I interpreted it to mean that he wished he'd had his weapon because the event might have escalated.

That is how I interpreted it too.
I thought he was saying that if they hadn't walked away and instead they pulled a weapon that he would be defenseless because he didn't have one.

When dh and I were dating we were sitting on a table in a small park near his apartment. This guy came walking toward us, we both felt that something was going to happen. I can't explain it but we knew something wasn't right.
Dh is pretty big guy, he is over 6 ft and at the time he was pretty muscular. He stood up and placed himself in between this guy and me, and then started walking toward him. The guy then asked if we knew what time it was, but you could just tell that was not what he was planning to do when he was approaching us. Its been 20 years and I still remember that because something was not right about it. Sometimes people just know.Maybe it was because dh and I have both been victims of violent crimes in our past, I don't know, I can't explain it.

Anyway my point is that sometimes instincts are right, and who knows if this cop did feel something and his reaction to them changed what they were going to do. Maybe they were just being friendly. Nobody knows.

Edited to say that I am not saying that people should carry guns in places that they are prohibited. I'm just explaining why I can understand why that the PO felt something was up.

 

[robinb]

Edited to say that I am not saying that people should carry guns in places that they are prohibited. I'm just explaining why I can understand why that the PO felt something was up.

.. or maybe he felt vulnerable without his gun and he was jumpy.

 

[Hikergirl]

.. or maybe he felt vulnerable without his gun and he was jumpy.

Of course he could have, I said nobody knows, and that includes me...and you, and anyone else not there.

 

[luvsJack]

The thing is, when he's in Canada, no one knows he's a police officer. He has no authority. He's a private citizen and expected to act as such.

For the record, this is what he wrote:

"I recently visited Calgary from Michigan. As a police officer for 20 years, it feels strange not to carry my off-duty hand-gun. Many would say I have no need to carry one in Canada. Yet the police cannot protect everyone all the time. A man should be allowed to protect himself if the need arises. The need arose in a theatre in Aurora, Colo., as well as a college campus in Canada. Recently, while out for a walk in Nose Hill Park, in broad daylight on a paved trail, two young men approached my wife and me. The men stepped in front of us, then said in a very aggressive tone: “Been to the Stampede yet?” We ignored them. The two moved closer, repeating: “Hey, you been to the Stampede yet? I quickly moved between these two and my wife, replying, “Gentlemen, I have no need to talk with you, goodbye.” They looked bewildered, and we then walked past them. I speculate they did not have good intentions when they approached in such an aggressive, disrespectful and menacing manner. I thank the Lord Jesus Christ they did not pull a weapon of some sort, but rather concluded it was in their best interest to leave us alone. Would we not expect a uniformed officer to pull his or her weapon to intercede in a life-or-death encounter to protect self, or another? Why then should the expectation be lower for a citizen of Canada or a visitor? Wait, I know – it’s because in Canada, only the criminals and the police carry handguns. Walt Wawra, Kalamazoo, Mich."

I interpreted this to mean he would have pulled a weapon, if he'd had one. You're quite right, though, that may not necessarily be the case. Maybe he would have felt so secure, just having that weapon on him, that he wouldn't have felt the need to pull it. Maybe that feeling of security would even have led him to perceive the young men in a friendlier manner.

However, as I said before, I rather disapprove of using a gun as a security blanket. So, that scenario isn't really much better, imo.

Perhaps as a trained officer, he could tell something by the way they carried themselves. He said they approached them aggressively. DD's bf is a cop. And he does carry a gun when he and dd are traveling. He also is very observant of their surroundings and how other people are acting. So if someone walks up to him in a normal everyday manner, he wouldn't think much of it. But if someone walks up to him in a manner that makes him brace himself, he may put his hand on his gun. Does he pull it? No. DD says he never has but he will let someone know he has it IF they act in a manner that is threatening to him or dd. Its not a "security blanket" but it is second nature to him as a protector.

 

[luvsJack]

My point was, now that I know how prevalent they are at Disney & that people don't respect Disney's policies (which has been evident in this thread's responses), I'm not going to pay $5,000 for a Disney trip where I don't feel comfortable. I'll rent a house at a quiet NC beach instead. Choices...to each his own....

And you think there will be fewer guns in NC than in WDW? sure. . . ok.

 

[Gumbo4x4]

.. or maybe he felt vulnerable without his gun and he was jumpy.

I think the whole point of his statement was to demonstrate how vulnerable he felt. I'm not in law enforcement, nor do I carry a gun. But, if I were, I imagine being without it would make me feel pretty vulnerable.

Jumpy? Dunno.

 

[Soldier's*Sweeties]

And you think there will be fewer guns in NC than in WDW? sure. . . ok.

Right?

 

[Magpie]

Perhaps as a trained officer, he could tell something by the way they carried themselves. He said they approached them aggressively. DD's bf is a cop. And he does carry a gun when he and dd are traveling. He also is very observant of their surroundings and how other people are acting. So if someone walks up to him in a normal everyday manner, he wouldn't think much of it. But if someone walks up to him in a manner that makes him brace himself, he may put his hand on his gun. Does he pull it? No. DD says he never has but he will let someone know he has it IF they act in a manner that is threatening to him or dd. Its not a "security blanket" but it is second nature to him as a protector.

Perhaps. Or perhaps he was just jumpy.

But I guess my question is... given that the gentlemen in question did nothing untoward, would your daughter's boyfriend then write a letter to the local paper, saying that everyone should be armed? In a country where people typically aren't? Or insist that he should have been allowed to bring his gun into that foreign country?

By and large, people don't walk around armed in Canada because they don't feel the need to do so. It seems hugely presumptuous to suggest that Canada's laws and culture needs to change, because of a socially awkward encounter on a hiking trail.

That is how I interpreted it too.
I thought he was saying that if they hadn't walked away and instead they pulled a weapon that he would be defenseless because he didn't have one.

When dh and I were dating we were sitting on a table in a small park near his apartment. This guy came walking toward us, we both felt that something was going to happen. I can't explain it but we knew something wasn't right.
Dh is pretty big guy, he is over 6 ft and at the time he was pretty muscular. He stood up and placed himself in between this guy and me, and then started walking toward him. The guy then asked if we knew what time it was, but you could just tell that was not what he was planning to do when he was approaching us. Its been 20 years and I still remember that because something was not right about it. Sometimes people just know.Maybe it was because dh and I have both been victims of violent crimes in our past, I don't know, I can't explain it.

Anyway my point is that sometimes instincts are right, and who knows if this cop did feel something and his reaction to them changed what they were going to do. Maybe they were just being friendly. Nobody knows.

Edited to say that I am not saying that people should carry guns in places that they are prohibited. I'm just explaining why I can understand why that the PO felt something was up.

We're completely on the same page, with regards to people not carrying in places where they are prohibited. And I would never suggest anyone should ignore their instincts.

However, I've also known people who set off my alarms, without meaning to and without intending me any harm. It's impossible for you to know what the gentleman who was walking toward you intended. You're quite right that something was off about him and your DH reacted appropriately. However, that doesn't mean he was actually a threat to you.

Your instincts are your instincts. They're neither right, or wrong. It's like a home alarm going off. Certain conditions will set it off, and the alarm doesn't know or care whether it's a burglar or a child's baseball breaking your window. (And, of course, you wouldn't ignore it, either way, because you wouldn't know which it was until you checked it out!)

I've known two men who made me very, very nervous. One turned out to have severe anxiety, and I just couldn't be near him without feeling anxious and afraid myself. It wasn't anything he said or did, it was how he held himself and the way he moved. The other man had been diagnosed with bipolar disorder and multiple personalities. He was a gentle man, who would not intentionally harm anyone, but the last time I saw him I had a strong sense that I wanted to put distance between myself and him. So, I did. We never spoke again and he died years later.

I have been the victim of crime, too. I was molested. I went to court to testify as a child. I was even present at a bank robbery once. My instincts are pretty sharp, and I feel like they've protected me on several occasions. But I've never been in a situation which I felt would have been improved by the presence of a gun. That said, maybe if I lived in Kalamazoo, I'd feel differently.

 

[Domo]

I'd sincerely hope that the lacklustre security outside WDW would pick up and stop most lethal weaponry from entering the parks.

 

[luvsJack]

Perhaps. Or perhaps he was just jumpy.

But I guess my question is... given that the gentlemen in question did nothing untoward, would your daughter's boyfriend then write a letter to the local paper, saying that everyone should be armed? In a country where people typically aren't? Or insist that he should have been allowed to bring his gun into that foreign country?

By and large, people don't walk around armed in Canada because they don't feel the need to do so. It seems hugely presumptuous to suggest that Canada's laws and culture needs to change, because of a socially awkward encounter on a hiking trail.

If asked, he may say that I don't really know his opinion of whether people should be armed. I seriously doubt he would write anyone about such an incident. And he respects the laws of wherever he is, just the way he is.

One night we were getting ready to leave a place. Dd and I went out to her car to get something. Dh and her bf were inside. There was a guy sitting on the sidewalk playing with a very large knife. He startled Dd and she ran back to me and I told her to go get her bf. He came out and sort of stood over the guy and just talked to him. I did notice he had his hand on his gun. The guy was harmless and he could tell that pretty quick. But it could have been very different. Danger doesn't just come from people armed with guns.

 

[robinb]

Of course he could have, I said nobody knows, and that includes me...and you, and anyone else not there.

Even though you did say "nobody knows", you wrote an entire post about instincts being right and that you understood how he might feel "something was up". It was that part of the post I was commenting on.

 

[Hikergirl]

Even though you did say "nobody knows", you wrote an entire post about instincts being right and that you understood how he might feel "something was up". It was that part of the post I was commenting on.

Actually this is what I said, maybe you missed the bolded.
Anyway my point is that sometimes instincts are right, and who knows if this cop did feel something and his reaction to them changed what they were going to do. Maybe they were just being friendly. Nobody knows.