Cannot believe this is happening. Teacher lied about my son.

kappy

Earning My Ears
Joined
Dec 7, 2010
Messages
31
This is going to be long, so I apologize ahead of time.

My son is in the 1st grade. There is an autistic child in his class whom he gets along with pretty well. The problem is that when the two of them get into trouble, only my son can get disciplined because the child has and IEP and he cannot get in trouble like the other children, only sent to the resource room. This child has a history in blurting out the word "kill" in the middle of class for no apparent reason. So the class had a long talk about saying that word and how they are not allowed to say it. Fine.

The other day my son gets a note home saying that he got in trouble at lunch for saying the word kill and that if it happened again, there would be a major consequence. That was all it said. So I asked my son about it and he said this child was in line next to him, twisting him arm. When he was asked to stop, he did not. So my son said "you're killing me!" and got into trouble for it. I asked him who he got into trouble from and he told me that name of the para that is assigned to this other child. Apparently her job is to be with him all day to make sure that he is not getting out of line.

So I called the teacher and left her a message letting her know that we got the note and talked to my son about not saying that word again. I also explained what he told me was going on in the line and what exactly he said he said to this child. She called me back the next day and quite rudely told me that she talked to the para and the para said that it did not happen at all like my son said. The para said that she was standing by the boys and overhead my son tell the other one to say the word kill, like egging him on. She said "that is all the information I have because I was not there". I said OK and hung up the phone.

I later talked to my son and told him what the para said and he said "that's not true!" "she was not even near us!". I asked him where she was and he told me across the room talking with another adult. So at this point I am extremely confused as to how she could have heard him say anything when she was not there. So I asked him how she knew he said anything and he told me the other child ran out of line and went up to the para and told her something. She came over and told my son he was in trouble and she was telling the teacher.

At this point my husband and I are pretty upset because it has seemed all year that he has been picked on by his teacher, but we always let it go because we did not want to make waves for him. So my husband calls the teacher and sets up a meeting for the next morning. The teacher agrees and tells him the principal will be there as well. When they sit down DH asked the teacher again to tell the para's side of the story and it was the same as what she had told me. He then tells the teacher and principal our son’s side. Their response was that the para has worked there for a long time and they saw no reason that she would lie about it. The principal said that sometimes kids make things up to try and get out of trouble. My DH agrees but said that my son was not trying to get out of trouble, he agreed that he said "kill", but says he DID NOT tell this other child to say kill. He also told them that our son said the para was not even standing there. Again they said that there was no reason for the para to lie about what happened but the teacher said she would talk to the para again. The teacher called back that day and said that the para's story has not changed and she maintains that she was standing there and heard my son say this. That my son was not telling the truth. My DH said "I hope he is the one that is lying because it is a much larger issue if it is the para". They both agreed and acted as if she would get into huge trouble if that were the case.

Over the weekend we tried to trip our son up. Trying to get him to admit he was making it up. He never faltered and maintained that it happened the way he said it.

On Sunday I emailed the principal and asked him to talk with both boys separately to ask them what happened that day. He did. I got an email this afternoon telling me that while one boy said his arm was being twisted, the other one maintains that he did not. Ok, fine, not a big deal. Then he said what they did both say was that the para was across the room and nowhere near them. He then proceeds to tell me that things happened with kids in the blink of an eye and that it is all fine because both boys really get along and seem to be great friends. That if I wanted to discuss it further, please feel free to contact him. Not ONE mention of the fact that his employee would be talked to about lying about my son! Not even an acknowledgement that she could not have heard my son say ANYTHING because she was not there!

I am so blown away and I don't even know what to do at this point. I feel that at the very least, this woman, and frankly his teacher as well, owe my son an apology for lying about him! His teacher never even asked him what happened! She just assumed that the para was right and he was wrong.

So what do you think I should do? I just feel like someone punched my gut knowing that an adult who is supposed to be someone my son can trust, totally lied about him to save her own butt.
 
I am a teacher, and, believe it or not, we can't be everywhere and see everything. Sometimes, we have to listen to all sides and make a judgment call because people can and do lie about their actions.

Have you talked to the paraprofessional at all? From your post, it sounds like you only spoke with the classroom teacher, who likely has no idea what really happened because she wasn't there.

At this point, you are still assuming that your child and the autistic child are telling the truth over the paraprofessional. You may be right, but I would at least talk to the lady herself before making such assumptions. Also, please don't bring the classroom teacher into this. Can you imagine how difficult it would be for one teacher to have to accuse a co-worker of lying? You've already gone to the principal, so have him or her arrange a meeting between you and the parapro.

I am a mom of a second grade girl, so I know that it can get difficult not to jump to your child's defense. But, i do think you shouldn't just assume that the parapro is the one who is lying.
 
:confused3

Since this is your first post, I'm not all that familiar with your writing style.

Are you venting? Seeking advice on next steps? Bored and decided to post this on a Disney Community Board, or just plain old :stir: :confused3
 
I'm going to be the person that says....if you feel there is something bigger going on here, a gut feeling that something more needs to be done, be THAT parent. I know this pribably won't be the popular opinion, but I've lived through a year like this and I won't let it happen again. My son's 3rd grade year was hell. His teacher was awful to him. I didn't do much about it because, (1) I didn't realize just how bad it was until after (hindsight), (2) I didn't want to be the parent that believes her child over an adult. To keep this short, my son was fine in K, 1 and 2...suddenly a trouble maker in 3rd grade and then was instantly fine in 4th and then 5th, 6th, 7th and currently 8th grade. He isn't perfect, and we know it, but he has never been a behavioral problem at school. My son ended seeing a pshychologist after 3rd grade because he would say things like, "I'm the worst kid ever. It would be better if I wasn't born" I wish I had trusted my gut and done more to help him.

I would push the issue about the aide lying a bit more. The school (aide/teacher/principal) made a point to say they had no reason to believe the aide would lie and therefore assumed your son was lying. Now they have reason to believe they were wrong and I would expect this to be dealt with (with the aide and with an apology).

Also, does your son understand the special considerations being given to the child on the spectrum? 1st grade is a little young, but he should be given some explanaiton as to why some rules are not as strongly enforced for this child...and I have a child on the spectrum so I have complete understanding for the child. I would hate to see him feel resentment toward the child and/or feel that he was being treated unfairly....1st grade is not when you want your child being 'turned off' from enjoying school.

Good luck...
Jess
 

I am a teacher, and, believe it or not, we can't be everywhere and see everything. Sometimes, we have to listen to all sides and make a judgment call because people can and do lie about their actions.

Have you talked to the paraprofessional at all? From your post, it sounds like you only spoke with the classroom teacher, who likely has no idea what really happened because she wasn't there.

At this point, you are still assuming that your child and the autistic child are telling the truth over the paraprofessional. You may be right, but I would at least talk to the lady herself before making such assumptions. Also, please don't bring the classroom teacher into this. Can you imagine how difficult it would be for one teacher to have to accuse a co-worker of lying? You've already gone to the principal, so have him or her arrange a meeting between you and the parapro.

I am a mom of a second grade girl, so I know that it can get difficult not to jump to your child's defense. But, i do think you shouldn't just assume that the parapro is the one who is lying.

Why would both boys lie about the para not being there? There would be no reason to lie about that. They both were asked where she was, and they both said the exact same place. Near the door, talking with another teacher.

We have tried on several occasions to meet with her. The first time we were told she does not come in that early (our meeting was at 8:00) and the other time the principal said that she was his employee and he would deal with her. So it is not like we have not tried to meet with her. They are not wanting us to, for whatever reason.

I am not blaming the teacher for not being there, I am upset that she did not even ask my son what happened and right off the bat decided that he was lying.
 
From my experience the boys were probably telling the truth about the para being across the room. My Ds has had a shared para since kindergarten and they are supposed to supervise during non-structured times like lunch and recess (Ds has had problems getting bullied). In almost every non-structured situation the para's congregate in one area and talk. I volunteered for Halloween and they had even misplaced a child who had a one-on-one para!

Having said that, choose your words very carefully with the staff. If you come on too strong they will circle the wagons and may take it out on your DS. They are unlikely to admit they could have been wrong (or they would have done so already). There is also a slight possibility that the para was closer than your DS or the boy described. I might email back something to the effect that it's best to let this matter drop, but that you want it to be noted that there is more than one side to most stories and that it's not only children who may get the facts wrong.

When it comes to the other boy not being punished because he has an IEP, don't be so sure that's the case. For that boy being removed the the resource room may be a considerable punishment. There may also be further consequences that you are not aware of. He is likely to have a behavior plan in place (or should) that would have steps for them to follow.
 
I realize you're upset but I think you're probably making a mountain out of a molehill. If my child had come home with this note, I'd have reminded her not to say the word "kill" and let it go.
 
/
I agree, as a teacher and the mom of a 1st grader. Kids can and do tell thier version of the truth and firmly stick to it, even when it is not what actually happened. These boys are firends so they are sure to have discussed this prior to talking to the principal. I would not just assume that the para is lying without having talked to her personally about it. If she is lying, at the very least she is on alert that she cannot continue to get away with doing so. The classroom teacher had to act on the info she had at the time, and when in doubt the adult's word wins out until proven otherwise. If you had to make the call between what a child, not your own, said happened and an adult you know which one are you going with? I think yuo have already made a bigger issue from this than it needed to be, your child was not punished for the incident, and the school knows how you feel about it nad what your stance is. I don't see what further benefit could come from contniuning. If fact I would think the possible animosity generated would be enough to keep me from pushing any further.
 
I'm going to be the person that says....if you feel there is something bigger going on here, a gut feeling that something more needs to be done, be THAT parent. I know this pribably won't be the popular opinion, but I've lived through a year like this and I won't let it happen again. My son's 3rd grade year was hell. His teacher was awful to him. I didn't do much about it because, (1) I didn't realize just how bad it was until after (hindsight), (2) I didn't want to be the parent that believes her child over an adult. To keep this short, my son was fine in K, 1 and 2...suddenly a trouble maker in 3rd grade and then was instantly fine in 4th and then 5th, 6th, 7th and currently 8th grade. He isn't perfect, and we know it, but he has never been a behavioral problem at school. My son ended seeing a pshychologist after 3rd grade because he would say things like, "I'm the worst kid ever. It would be better if I wasn't born" I wish I had trusted my gut and done more to help him.

I would push the issue about the aide lying a bit more. The school (aide/teacher/principal) made a point to say they had no reason to believe the aide would lie and therefore assumed your son was lying. Now they have reason to believe they were wrong and I would expect this to be dealt with (with the aide and with an apology).

Also, does your son understand the special considerations being given to the child on the spectrum? 1st grade is a little young, but he should be given some explanaiton as to why some rules are not as strongly enforced for this child...and I have a child on the spectrum so I have complete understanding for the child. I would hate to see him feel resentment toward the child and/or feel that he was being treated unfairly....1st grade is not when you want your child being 'turned off' from enjoying school.

Good luck...
Jess


My gut feeling was that there was something bigger going on, that is why I did not just let it go. It was just not adding up.

My son did not understand why he was the one that was always getting into trouble and it really bothered him. I talked to his teacher about it and asked her if she had any advice on what to say to him. I told her that he really felt picked on. She said "tell him that I am the teacher, and I make the rules". WHAT? So I explained to him that some kids have brains that work a little differently and so they don't always understand that their actions are wrong. He seemed OK with that.

I am so sorry to hear about your son. It really hits close to home.:hug:
 
From my experience the boys were probably telling the truth about the para being across the room. My Ds has had a shared para since kindergarten and they are supposed to supervise during non-structured times like lunch and recess (Ds has had problems getting bullied). In almost every non-structured situation the para's congregate in one area and talk. I volunteered for Halloween and they had even misplaced a child who had a one-on-one para!

Having said that, choose your words very carefully with the staff. If you come on too strong they will circle the wagons and may take it out on your DS. They are unlikely to admit they could have been wrong (or they would have done so already). There is also a slight possibility that the para was closer than your DS or the boy described. I might email back something to the effect that it's best to let this matter drop, but that you want it to be noted that there is more than one side to most stories and that it's not only children who may get the facts wrong.

When it comes to the other boy not being punished because he has an IEP, don't be so sure that's the case. For that boy being removed the the resource room may be a considerable punishment. There may also be further consequences that you are not aware of. He is likely to have a behavior plan in place (or should) that would have steps for them to follow.

This is the best advice. I would also tell my child that I believed him.
 
I realize you're upset but I think you're probably making a mountain out of a molehill. If my child had come home with this note, I'd have reminded her not to say the word "kill" and let it go.

:thumbsup2 I agree with this.
 
I agree, as a teacher and the mom of a 1st grader. Kids can and do tell thier version of the truth and firmly stick to it, even when it is not what actually happened. These boys are firends so they are sure to have discussed this prior to talking to the principal. I would not just assume that the para is lying without having talked to her personally about it. If she is lying, at the very least she is on alert that she cannot continue to get away with doing so. The classroom teacher had to act on the info she had at the time, and when in doubt the adult's word wins out until proven otherwise. If you had to make the call between what a child, not your own, said happened and an adult you know which one are you going with? I think yuo have already made a bigger issue from this than it needed to be, your child was not punished for the incident, and the school knows how you feel about it nad what your stance is. I don't see what further benefit could come from contniuning. If fact I would think the possible animosity generated would be enough to keep me from pushing any further.

This happened on a Thursday and my son missed school on Friday. They were talked to Monday morning by the principal. They did not discuss it prior to talking to the principal.

If it would have been my son that was found out to be the one lying, I was fully prepared to march him into school and make him apologize to the principal, teacher and the para. I don't understand why an adult would not be held to the same standard as a 6 year old.
 
If the para is being paid to be with the child she should be with the child and that is what I would be asking the principal. Why was she not with him?

I would also tell my son to not be anywhere near this child. do not stand in line next to him, do not sit next to him, period and I would tell the teacher and principal the same thing. that I do not want my child near this child. And if he finds himself next to him he is to get out of line and go to the back of the line away from the child. I also think I would be stopping in a few lunches to see if the para was with him. I also would be telling my child that IF that child TOUCHES him in any way shape or form he is to immediately tell the teacher, lunch aid and me when he gets home. And if he hurts him to ask to go to the office so it is documented.

I do not go along with the no punishment, if the child is high enough functioning to be in a classroom then they need to follow the same rules and punishments. If he is hurting children he does not belong with them and the para should be fired if her job is to keep him from doing so.
 
I realize you're upset but I think you're probably making a mountain out of a molehill. If my child had come home with this note, I'd have reminded her not to say the word "kill" and let it go.

:thumbsup2 This matter would've been over 1 minute after I read the note. In your situation now, I'd tell my ds I believe him, and that would be the end. My kids have gotten in trouble for things they haven't done, but it's never been anything serious.
 
I am not sure how high fucntioning the other child is but as your son is in first grade and will be at the school for a few more years and it's only december i say that this is not the hill you want to die on.

Most of my very good friends are teachers and frankly, teacher's talk. Para's talk. I would just drop it.

Lara
 
Why would both boys lie about the para not being there? There would be no reason to lie about that. They both were asked where she was, and they both said the exact same place. Near the door, talking with another teacher.

We have tried on several occasions to meet with her. The first time we were told she does not come in that early (our meeting was at 8:00) and the other time the principal said that she was his employee and he would deal with her. So it is not like we have not tried to meet with her. They are not wanting us to, for whatever reason.

I am not blaming the teacher for not being there, I am upset that she did not even ask my son what happened and right off the bat decided that he was lying.

Justy because she wasn't right next to them doesn't mean she didn't hear or see what happened.
 
They both pointed to a door that was across the lunchroom.

Surprisingly, you can still hear and see across a lunch room. And why would the para lie?
 
Surprisingly, you can still hear and see across a lunch room. And why would the para lie?

Because according to the principal, her job is to be with the child to help him with his tray and getting it to his table. How could she be doing that from across the room? If she was across the room talking to an adult, then she was not doing her job.
 
If the para is being paid to be with the child she should be with the child and that is what I would be asking the principal. Why was she not with him?

I would also tell my son to not be anywhere near this child. do not stand in line next to him, do not sit next to him, period and I would tell the teacher and principal the same thing. that I do not want my child near this child. And if he finds himself next to him he is to get out of line and go to the back of the line away from the child. I also think I would be stopping in a few lunches to see if the para was with him. I also would be telling my child that IF that child TOUCHES him in any way shape or form he is to immediately tell the teacher, lunch aid and me when he gets home. And if he hurts him to ask to go to the office so it is documented.

I do not go along with the no punishment, if the child is high enough functioning to be in a classroom then they need to follow the same rules and punishments. If he is hurting children he does not belong with them and the para should be fired if her job is to keep him from doing so.

:eek: Wow! I think that's an overreaction. It sounds like her son and the child are buddies. While it is frustrating her child is the one who is catching the flak for things, it is wild that you would equate to no contact. That's alot to put onto the kid.

I think the op has gone mama bear over something that I would have personally shrugged off. Like another person said, this is not a hill I would die on. I would have told my child not to say kill and if I felt he was not at fault I would have said the brilliant words all kids understand "That sucks!"
 














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