Can we talk about how bad FastPass+ is?

[kay1864]

MagicBands can also be read by long-range readers located at Walt Disney World Resort used to deliver personalized experiences, as well as provide information that helps us improve the overall experience in our parks.

located - past tense
used - past tense
provide information - what information? location? time? wearer? unrelated individual data points, or aggregated into sets?
helps us - "helps," not "will help"..."us, not you"
overall experience - not just help you find your pictures

The entire policy above says what Magic Bands can do. Their potential. Now or in the future. There's no requirement that Disney has to use the phrase "will help" if it's only for future use.


More important, the "can also be" applies equally to "provide information". The pertinent verbs are "deliver" and "provide". To wit:

MagicBands can also be read by long-range readers located at Walt Disney World Resort used to deliver personalized experiences,

MagicBands can also be read by long-range readers located at Walt Disney World Resort used to provide information that helps us improve the overall experience in our parks.

Either part refers to potential uses of the MBs. Doesn't mean they're doing it today.

Is this the totality of your backup for your claim of "They have them they're using them"? Parsing of a Disney CYA policy?

 

[kay1864]

Wait...those still exist?? They're not extinct??

Yes, CMs still have "comprehensive" legacy FPs. (I think some call them Gold FPs or somesuch) They're usually good for 30 days, for any ride, except lately some have said "except for A&E". I think they're usually limited to the current park.

 

[over50visits]

So why did they spend $1B or more on a system that uses magic bands to do zero more for you than they did in the past with the existing plastic admission cards (that are still in use by many customers, all entering parks, getting FPs, charging meals and purchases, opening room doors, buying photos with these cards)? Why spend so much money on sending out wrist bands?

Hmmmm.....if they said "please wear these so we can track your activities" they wouldn't be a success. So dress them up, make them in colors, show smiling kids using them in commercials, and try to make everyone think they are providing something new even when they aren't.

I don't lose sleep over Disney's tracking everywhere I go (nothing sinister seems to be in the works other than finding ways to get more of my money). I DO fault them in that they seem a bit disingenuous about their (MBs) purpose.

It (getting more money from me) has already started. I have NEVER purchased any photo package, yet after a recent visit my email had a message notifying me that my photos from my last trip (on a ride like Splash Mountain I presume) were available for purchase and warning that I better hurry and buy them before they expire. What????

Now that's crossing the line, and even borders on creepy. Only one way they could have known what ride I rode, what car I was in...and they used my email for unsolicited commercial sales pitch.

No, it's not better. And they're hiding it from us. We had a great visit recently, and will be back and will love it, but the good old days of Disney seeming to be in the business of providing magical vacations seem to have left us. Now I feel nickeled, dimed, and dollared to death at every turn.

 

[itchin2go]

Straw man much? I said it was a bad argument, not a stupid one.

Assuming your sig is up to date, I see that you've yet to take a trip under the full FP+ system currently in use. I look forward to your trip report for your upcoming Thanksgiving trip, where I'm sure you'll do it all standby.

I'm not worried.

 

[FLchick415]

So why did they spend $1B or more on a system that uses magic bands to do zero more for you than they did in the past with the existing plastic admission cards (that are still in use by many customers, all entering, getting FPs, charging meals and purchases, opening room doors with these cards)? Why spend so much money on sending out wrist bands?

Hmmmm.....if they said "please wear these so we can track your activities" it wouldn't be a success. So dress them up, make them in colors, show smiling kids using them in commercials, and try to make everyone think they are providing something new even when they aren't.

Actually, there will be a lot new. The on-ride photos will be automatically uploaded to anyone w/ a MB and Memory Maker. There's also apparently going to be a lot of interactive elements all over the resort that will use the RFID signals from the bands...IASW is one that comes to mind, and I think it's even used with Talking Mickey. The $1B price tag covers the ENTIRE MM+ infrastructure.

 

[kay1864]

They ARE. But they are NOT using them to track every single move you make and see exactly where you are the entire time you are inside a Disney park or resort. Do they know what park you are in, yes, do they know you are riding a ride because you scanned in or triggered a picture, yes, do they know you are in a bar or or the restroom? Do they know you are currently watching Voices of Liberty? No. Do they know you are walking through Frontierland, no. Unless you buy something in that area and charge it to your room they don't know THAT much.

How dare you bring a dose of reality and common sense into my tinfoilhattedness!

Now I need two of these!

 

[kay1864]

So why did they spend $1B or more on a system that uses magic bands to do zero more for you than they did in the past with the existing plastic admission cards (that are still in use by many customers, all entering, getting FPs, charging meals and purchases, opening room doors with these cards)? Why spend so much money on sending out wrist bands?

1. KTTW cards are rapidly being phased out. I wouldn't exactly use the word "many".

2. Easier to tap my band than to fish out my wallet or card when making a purchase. Shorter lines, more impulse buys = $$ for Disney.
(note: I've had the MB fail on the first try at the turnstile. At point of sale OTOH...I've always gotten a green Mickey)

3. Future use potential.

 

[OtherScott]

The entire policy above says what Magic Bands can do. Their potential. Now or in the future. There's no requirement that Disney has to use the phrase "will help" if it's only for future use.

More important, the "can also be" applies equally to "provide information". The pertinent verbs are "deliver" and "provide". To wit:

Either part refers to potential uses of the MBs. Doesn't mean they're doing it today.

Is this the totality of your backup for your claim of "They have them they're using them"? Parsing of a Disney CYA policy?

Parsing?

Here is the entire thought put forth by Disney

Each MagicBand contains an HF Radio Frequency device and a transmitter which sends and receives RF signals through a small antenna inside the MagicBand and enables it to be detected at short-range touch points throughout Walt Disney World Resort. MagicBands can also be read by long-range readers located at Walt Disney World Resort used to deliver personalized experiences, as well as provide information that helps us improve the overall experience in our parks.

First sentence uses the phrase "enables it to be detected at short-range touch points throughout Walt Disney World Resort." We agree the first sentence applies to current condition, right? MBs are touched at FP+ and PoP locations in all parks, as well as resorts.

Second sentence of the same paragraph uses the phrase "can also be read by long-range readers located at Walt Disney World Resort used to deliver personalized experiences, as well as provide information that helps us improve the overall experience in our parks."

So Disney says MBs are enabled to be read short range (touch points) and can be read long range (readers).

And it's your argument that the part of the second sentence ("can also be read by long-range readers located at Walt Disney World Resort") applies to the current condition (with respect to a feature it doesn't mention - photo pass), but not to a feature it specifically addresses ("provide information that helps us improve the overall experience in our parks")?

It does the thing Disney says it can do short range
It doesn't yet do the the thing Disney says (in same paragraph) it can long range
It does a thing Disney doesn't say it can do long range

That about it?

 

[OtherScott]

Hmmmm.....if they said "please wear these so we can track your activities" they wouldn't be a success. So dress them up, make them in colors, show smiling kids using them in commercials, and try to make everyone think they are providing something new even when they aren't.

Said this here in November.

Crowd arguing about FPs and ignoring the fact they agreed to wear tracking devices.

 

[JanaDee]

How dare you bring a dose of reality and common sense into my tinfoilhattedness!

Now I need two of these!

But I'm supposedly the rude one?

 

[kay1864]

And it's your argument that the part of the second sentence ("can also be read by long-range readers located at Walt Disney World Resort") applies to the current condition (with respect to a feature it doesn't mention - photo pass), but not to a feature it specifically addresses ("provide information that helps us improve the overall experience in our parks")?

No, my argument is exactly as stated above.

The "can also be" applies equally to "provide information". The pertinent verbs are "deliver" and "provide". To wit:

MagicBands can also be read by long-range readers located at Walt Disney World Resort used to deliver personalized experiences,

MagicBands can also be read by long-range readers located at Walt Disney World Resort used to provide information that helps us improve the overall experience in our parks.

Either part refers to potential uses of the MBs. As I said, this way Disney doesn't have to rewrite their policy to cover future use. They're covering their bases.

It doesn't mean they're doing it today. Which is what you seem to be arguing.


Again, to confirm: Your proof of your emphatic claim

They have them they're using them

is based on the grammar of a Disney CYR policy?

That's it?

 

[maxiesmom]

2. Easier to tap my band than to fish out my wallet or card when making a purchase. Shorter lines, more impulse buys = $$ for Disney.
(note: I've had the MB fail on the first try at the turnstile. At point of sale OTOH...I've always gotten a green Mickey)

And that is what I loved about the Magic Band. Not having to dig through my park bag looking for my card in order to pay for something. Or to get FPs. Or to get in the park.

And so what if Disney doesn't come out and say Hey, we want you to wear this band in part so we can track what you do. My local grocery store doesn't admit that about their card either. And as I pointed out before, people don't seem to care that their cell phone tracks them wherever they go. It is just someone different doing it in the parks.

 

[OtherScott]

No, my argument is exactly as stated above.

The "can also be" applies equally to "provide information". The pertinent verbs are "deliver" and "provide". To wit:

Either part refers to potential uses of the MBs. As I said, this way Disney doesn't have to rewrite their policy to cover future use. They're covering their bases.

It doesn't mean they're doing it today. Which is what you seem to be arguing.


Again, to confirm: Your proof of your emphatic claimis based on the grammar of a Disney CYR policy?

That's it?

I see. When you see Disney doing something (touch points) that they describe as "enabled," it's logical to think they're doing it now..

When, in the next sentence, they say the thing in sentence 1 "can also" do something you can't see, it's not only questionable as to whether they're doing it, it means they aren't:

But at present, there aren't long-range sensors in the parks, and at present, Disney is not tracking MB guests' movements in the parks. If there were long-range sensors, it would be (and eventually will be) all over the DIS boards.

You started the day with no long range readers being in the parks

Now they're in the park, doing something Disney doesn't say they can do (photopass), but not doing the very thing Disney says they can do (gather data). For 1.8 billion large.

This morning they emphatically weren't tracking.

Now their statement could be read to mean they aren't yet.

This is understandable if one considers that you don't see the value in Disney knowing where you've been.

I'm out.

 

[DebbieB]

And that is what I loved about the Magic Band. Not having to dig through my park bag looking for my card in order to pay for something. Or to get FPs. Or to get in the park.

And so what if Disney doesn't come out and say Hey, we want you to wear this band in part so we can track what you do. My local grocery store doesn't admit that about their card either. And as I pointed out before, people don't seem to care that their cell phone tracks them wherever they go. It is just someone different doing it in the parks.

The old paper fastpasses had your ticket # printed on the bottom. So they could easily track what fastpasses you pulled before. If you used the KTTW for dining & purchases, they knew where you were.

 

[kay1864]

I'm out.

Dang. I was so hoping for some backup for

They have them they're using them

I guess the secret evidence will remain secret.

 

[ncdj2013]

I see what you are saying but I don't understand what makes this any different than paper FP-. With paper FPs you'd still be checking your watch and you'd still have to decide if you wanted to blow off your FP. The only difference is that now you have the additional option to see about changing the window time or experience.

The big difference for me was not having to run back and forth across a huge park numerous times. When we went in April I had achilles tendonitis so the FP+ saved my life. It was a relief to know what time I needed to be at my favorite ride ahead of time. Also elimininated conflicts with ADR's. Having a schedule made it much more relaxing and leisurely for us rather than stressful.
And that was when you only got 3 per day. Period.

How are the extra ones working out for people? Do you basically start from scratch with no restrictions?

 

[OtherScott]

Dang. I was so hoping for some backup for

I guess the secret evidence will remain secret.

Then I guess you know how the rest of feel

Originaly posted by You - 8 hours ago
But at present, there aren't long-range sensors in the parks, and at present, Disney is not tracking MB guests' movements in the parks. If there were long-range sensors, it would be (and eventually will be) all over the DIS boards.

I could refer you to the patent application, or the FCC filings for the actual hardware (something a few of us discussed in depth all over the DIS boards for the past year), but if the plain language on Disney's website or $1.8 million doesn't do it for you, ain't much "hope" left.

Each MagicBand contains (actual) an HF Radio Frequency device and a transmitter which sends and receives RF signals through a small antenna inside the MagicBand and enables it to be detected at short-range touch points (actual) throughout Walt Disney World Resort. MagicBands can also be read by long-range readers located at Walt Disney World Resort used to deliver personalized experiences (actual - PhotoPass), as well as provide information that helps us improve the overall experience in our parks (potential).

Sneaky lawyers, changing tense within a sentence.

Peace

 

[glamdring269]

Love the Magic Band.

Prefer paper FP, or at least a similar concept that could be used in conjunction with the Magic Band.

This is based on testing last October. We'll be back next week and I'll see if I change my mind but not counting on it.

 

[Davey Jones II]

OP, your observations pretty much nail all the problems I have with FP+. Add the whole tiering thing too. Can't stand having to choose between Soarin or Test Track, or TSMM or RnRC.

I do like the benefit of being able to hit the headliners without needing to be at park open, and I also love being able to get good FP's for our arrival day. (they tended to be gone by the time we arrived before FP+ was implimented).

However, saying that, I would most definately go back to the old paper FP system given the choice.

Dan

In a heartbeat.

 

[Sparkly]

Well, the OP sure knew how to rile everyone up...

I just hope newbies aren't scared off!