Can we profit off DVC?

[Cruelladeville]

I am against any rule that is brought against all of us, when DVC is trying to catch those few people who are commercial renters. They could have had a rule limiting the number of pts transferred into or out of an account, or a rule limiting how many ressies you are booking for Christmas week, or whatever, but making a blanket rule against everyone is wrong. I have had some freedoms taken away, through DVC(and at the airports) that probably still won't negatively affect the "bad boys/girls" in the group. I am affected because I might want 370 pts at OKW to rent a GV, and now I have to find one person who is willing to transfer pts, not an easy thing to do. In the past, I could rent pts from lots of people with 50-75 pts each, and still get the pts to get the GV, but now I am pretty much locked out.

 

[greenban]

I am against any rule that is brought against all of us, when DVC is trying to catch those few people who are commercial renters. They could have had a rule limiting the number of pts transferred into or out of an account, or a rule limiting how many ressies you are booking for Christmas week, or whatever, but making a blanket rule against everyone is wrong. I have had some freedoms taken away, through DVC(and at the airports) that probably still won't negatively affect the "bad boys/girls" in the group. I am affected because I might want 370 pts at OKW to rent a GV, and now I have to find one person who is willing to transfer pts, not an easy thing to do. In the past, I could rent pts from lots of people with 50-75 pts each, and still get the pts to get the GV, but now I am pretty much locked out.

I hear/feel your pain, especially at airports, but transfers for any compensation have always been banned in all version of the POS, just as the commercial activity of renting.

I have no proof, but suspect that DVC will continue to monitor the rent/trade board, and make offers to transfer points. I would not want to be caught in that sting.

The DVC PTB have made it perfectly clear that they are going after any and all renters with, "a pattern of commercial activity." Wether that means 30 or more ressies per year, 2 or more ressies not in your (the contract owner's) name, multiple ressies at the same time of year, or simply advertising points for rent here on the DISboards is not yet apparent. I predict that in the end, the DVC definition of Commercial will be much tighter than the majority of this website will be thrilled with.

I believe, in order to maximize our enjoyment of the DVC (The *MOST* good for the *MOST* members) that the transfer restriction will remain for the forseeable future, that The renting crackdown will go beyond what most of us consider Commercial Renting, and I expect a transfer for compensation crackdown to be next.

I also expect that the DVC *WILL* shortly correct the point tracking error at MS, but will *NOT* reverse the transfer limitation, or commercial rental crackdown.

Just my 2 cents. Not worth anymore than that.

-Tony

 

[spiceycat]

Wether that means 30 or more ressies per year, 2 or more ressies not in your (the contract owner's) name, multiple ressies at the same time of year, or simply advertising points for rent here on the DISboards is not yet apparent. I predict that in the end, the DVC definition of Commercial will be much tighter than the majority of this website will be thrilled with.

Tony I make reservations for my family - don't charge them and I am NOT going with them.

we don't get along that well to make vacations together a good ideal. but I let my family use my points.

DVC is not going to stop that.

the way it was described - what you do with your points is your business. You can rent them for cash or give them away - I do both. Or use them yourself - I do that too...

It is what some members are doing with OTHERS member points that DVC is trying it best to stop.

 

[greenban]

Tony I make reservations for my family - don't charge them and I am NOT going with them.

we don't get along that well to make vacations together a good ideal. but I let my family use my points.

DVC is not going to stop that.

the way it was described - what you do with your points is your business. You can rent them for cash or give them away - I do both. Or use them yourself - I do that too...

It is what some members are doing with OTHERS member points that DVC is trying it best to stop.

Hey Pat!

I too learned (after one *SPECIAL* vacation), to give points to family, not vacation with them in a larger room, .

I also agree that the point morphing must be stopped.

I agree that you will be able to do with your points as you please, except, I think people who advertise their points in any medium (eBay, R/T boards, TV, etc.) may be (correctly) considered commercial, by the DVC. This is where we politely disagree (and I may be wrong here), but I suspect any renting of points accompanied by advertising is going to be defined commercial.

Certainly not immediately, or overnight. But once the 'Big Time' commercial renters and point morphers have been handled, I suspect the definition of commercial renter to expand. Think of this as a predicition, only time will tell and we can revisit this in about a year. I hope I am wrong, but I don't think so.

-Tony

 

[bounceliketigger]

Well, I can only comment that one commercial renter actually bragged on this board a year or more ago that he once got $21/point for a rental unit.

If I recall, I think he said he averaged around $15-$16/point. He rented via E-bay, mostly prime time 5-day weeks.

Bear in mind: a new 200pt SSR contract, if financed by DVC, including maintenance fees, costs the owner approx. $12 per point, per year until the loan is paid off. Combine that with listing fees, $15-16 pp is fairly reasonable, but I would certainly not brag about doing it once, forget making a living that way.

I will add, in the interest of the "Magic", even at $16 pp the average person is getting quite a deal over DVC's "rack rates" for DVC units. Some of these folks could never afford to take that family vacation otherwise.

Flip side-I've been pretty peeved to see prime weeks for sale on e-bay when I as a member couldn't get a single night.

We'll see what the future holds with this topic!

 

[DebbieB]

--

i was wondering if you sold your dvc (purchased at the discount) -- whether disney would use the rofr and take the K at the original sale price rather than the resale bid - which would be higher?q

anyone know?

They can only ROFR at the same terms as in the resale contract. It doesn't matter how much you originally paid for it.

 

[Barnum01]

You should only include capital apprecaition if you expect to sell before 2042 or 2054 (SSR). At the end of the term there will be no value. Also there is no guarantee that DVC will appreciate. As the number of years left decrease it could get harder for the existing DVC resorts to match prior appreciation. Some believe that at some point the value of DVC will go down at the older resorts. So if you are planning to hold on to your points until they expire then I agree with you analysis as a starting point.

With all the DIScussion on this topic, I've been wondering about this very fact. At some point, based upon the contracted ending-year, there will be no appreciation and perhaps great depreciation to the initial investment because no one in their right mind is going to pay the going ppp being asked for today for only 10-15 years of use. Whenever that day is, I have no idea, but it's coming. Until then, I'll keep using the limited amount of points I have.

Regards

p.s. this is my 75th post, I've earned my ears!

 

[bounceliketigger]

I've seen a couple of comments on other posts referencing a section in the contract that talks about "monitoring renting activity". Does anyone know more about this?

Also, I saw someone comment on the DVC member being liable for any damage caused by guests/ renters. Anyone know more?

I doubt I'll be able to use any of my points this year and will likely give them to family and friends. I'm a little concerned...

Thanks!

 

[Dean]

Also, I saw someone comment on the DVC member being liable for any damage caused by guests/ renters. Anyone know more?

As a rule, most timeshares consider the owner responsible for the actions of their guests (renter or otherwise). I think it's a small risk but one needs to know.

 

[Deb & Bill]

I've seen a couple of comments on other posts referencing a section in the contract that talks about "monitoring renting activity". Does anyone know more about this?

Thanks!

I don't know what they are looking at, but to me monitoring renting activity would be looking at the reservations a member makes and see how many of them will have the member as one of the guests. Plus maybe see how many different people would be staying on the member's points. And possibly, how many Sun-Fri reservations (those 5 day studio stays).

 

[Dr. DVC]

If anyone was lucky enough to have a family get them the 15% discount, they would not get ROFRed because would be bought directly from DVC at full price - 15% cast member discount.

Has anyone here had a family cast member get them a discount off a DVC purchase?

 

[joepoe]

Well, I can only comment that one commercial renter actually bragged on this board a year or more ago that he once got $21/point for a rental unit.

If I recall, I think he said he averaged around $15-$16/point. He rented via E-bay, mostly prime time 5-day weeks.

I guess there is a sucker born every minute, Bill. You are an old DVC'er like me, dont you think that sounds too good to be true?

 

[Caskbill]

I guess there is a sucker born every minute, Bill. You are an old DVC'er like me, dont you think that sounds too good to be true?

At the time, if I recall correctly, this person did all their rentals on e-bay. Had a real snazzy ad. Definitely a commercial renter.

The particular rental I seem to recall was a prime Christmastime week, or some other popular time, probably at OKW. If it was the week before Christmas, that would be in 'choice' season, and OKW Studio is 8 points/night, weekdays.

At $21/point that would have been $168/night for the renter. Equivalent to a hotel rate of $150 before taxes.

Considering how the CRO rate would probably have been over $300/night, I could see how someone going to e-bay, would think $168 (with no taxes) would be a good deal. Especially someone who hadn't researched much, and obviously didn't know about the DIS.

At $15/point, he could still rent that OKW studio for $120/night with no tax, or equivalent to a hotel rate of $107/night plus tax. People who purchase things on e-bay probably think they're getting the best bargain, and someone comparing it to CRO rates would definitely think so, even though in reality there would be better rates out there. Rates such as typically found here on the DIS Rent-Trade board.

Just .02