Can someone explain the DVC trading dilemma?

[rutgers1]

I just referenced this in the "future" thread that is still somewhere on the main index of this forum, but I thought I would phrase it as a question and see if anyone had any insight....

Why do people have trouble trading their DVC with other timeshare owners? And likewise, why does it seem like anyone with a timeshare anywhere else in the world can get a DVC villa easily? I know people with timeshares who make trading seem like the best thing since sliced bread, yet we are cautioned that it isn't the best deal if you have DVC. Why?

 

[spiceycat]

DVC is expensive for a timeshare because of the maintence fees. (but that is true of most of Orlando timeshares)

you want a cheaper one - less than $5,000 in these days less than $2,000 and maintence fees way under $500 for trading.

that say if you thinking of trading - definitely join
www.tug2.net
so you can read the reviews and get other opinions on nice resort to trade into.

some DVC members felt had by II because their trades were lousy.

considering that you are trading something that values for $1,600 or more for a week - if you got something you could have rented for $500 or less - wouldn't you feel cheated?

 

[Dean]

I just referenced this in the "future" thread that is still somewhere on the main index of this forum, but I thought I would phrase it as a question and see if anyone had any insight....

Why do people have trouble trading their DVC with other timeshare owners? And likewise, why does it seem like anyone with a timeshare anywhere else in the world can get a DVC villa easily? I know people with timeshares who make trading seem like the best thing since sliced bread, yet we are cautioned that it isn't the best deal if you have DVC. Why?

I think you are not quite understanding the situation. While one can trade in, it's usually off season and smaller units and also to lessor demand resorts mostly. I wouldn't use the word easy overall for most situations. As Pat noted, one can get a unit MUCH cheaper that trades better. DVC doesn't have good trade power because it's Orlando (overbuilt) and II usually gets off season weeks at lessor resorts from DVC. Also, about 10% of the resorts on the DVC list are Marriott's and Starwood and likely half of the resorts worth trading to with owners in each system being in line ahead of you. To II, the location and demand of the week are a large part of the trade power. Marriott's Grande Vista trades about the same but has internal Marriott trading preference. You also get direct II access with all the perks associated but some costs as well. The extra $95 fee also affects the trade power significantly IMO.

Buying DVC to trade is a poor choice. The trade options are not guaranteed and greatly hit or miss as well as being far too expesive and having far greater options that will do better MUCH cheaper. However, if one does own and wants to trade, there are ways to do so and get a much better value IF you get the trade. The worst part to me is that I think it would be fairly easy for DVC to make trading a far better value and shift it from being a poor choice to being a great choice. They just leave far too much on the table and I think it's simply they want so much control and I frankly don't think they want it to be a good option to trade and don't want to encourage much trading in spite of their rhetorric.

 

[Anal Annie]

I think you are not quite understanding the situation. While one can trade in, it's usually off season and smaller units and also to lessor demand resorts mostly. I wouldn't use the word easy overall for most situations. As Pat noted, one can get a unit MUCH cheaper that trades better. DVC doesn't have good trade power because it's Orlando (overbuilt) and II usually gets off season weeks at lessor resorts from DVC.
Not quite following you here... Can you explain how / what DVC does to offer our points to II. I mean, since we don't have specific weeks assigned to us but rather can travel to WDW at any time of the year, how is this done? EX - we have a Dec. UY, but that doesn't mean DVC offers II a Dec week?! I don't understand how this is done.
Also, about 10% of the resorts on the DVC list are Marriott's and Starwood and likely half of the resorts worth trading to with owners in each system being in line ahead of you. To II, the location and demand of the week are a large part of the trade power. Marriott's Grande Vista trades about the same but has internal Marriott trading preference. You also get direct II access with all the perks associated but some costs as well. The extra $95 fee also affects the trade power significantly IMO.

I know we have to pay the $95 fee (which actually doesn't bother me THAT MUCH and I guess I am a minority on that one...). But are you saying that the other person who trades INTO DVC also has to pay the $95 fee so it's a deterrent for people to trade in?

Buying DVC to trade is a poor choice. The trade options are not guaranteed and greatly hit or miss as well as being far too expesive and having far greater options that will do better MUCH cheaper. However, if one does own and wants to trade, there are ways to do so and get a much better value IF you get the trade. The worst part to me is that I think it would be fairly easy for DVC to make trading a far better value and shift it from being a poor choice to being a great choice. They just leave far too much on the table and I think it's simply they want so much control and I frankly don't think they want it to be a good option to trade and don't want to encourage much trading in spite of their rhetorric.

We didn't buy JUST to trade but we DID buy with the intentions to trade SOMETIMES since it was touted as an option. Once every few years or so we figured. DVC does NOT make it seem like it would be such an ordeal to do tho that's for sure! They make it sound like it will be just as easy as booking a DVC unit at WDW. That DOES seem like a mis-representation now that we own and read all about it.

 

[CarolMN]

I think you are not quite understanding the situation. While one can trade in, it's usually off season and smaller units and also to lessor demand resorts mostly. I wouldn't use the word easy overall for most situations. As Pat noted, one can get a unit MUCH cheaper that trades better. DVC doesn't have good trade power because it's Orlando (overbuilt) and II usually gets off season weeks at lessor resorts from DVC.

Not quite following you here... Can you explain how / what DVC does to offer our points to II. I mean, since we don't have specific weeks assigned to us but rather can travel to WDW at any time of the year, how is this done? EX - we have a Dec. UY, but that doesn't mean DVC offers II a Dec week?! I don't understand how this is done.

I'm not Dean, but I think I know what he meant. DVC chooses a week to deposit into II. We don't know how they choose. However, the weeks available for others to trade into DVC are almost always off season weeks and from the larger resorts. We very seldom see BCV, or VWL and only occasionally see BWV weeks. Don't recall anyone saying they got a summer week at HH and I don't think VB weeks are available very often either. The weeks DVC chooses to deposit affect members' trade power.

Also, about 10% of the resorts on the DVC list are Marriott's and Starwood and likely half of the resorts worth trading to with owners in each system being in line ahead of you. To II, the location and demand of the week are a large part of the trade power. Marriott's Grande Vista trades about the same but has internal Marriott trading preference. You also get direct II access with all the perks associated but some costs as well. The extra $95 fee also affects the trade power significantly IMO.

I know we have to pay the $95 fee (which actually doesn't bother me THAT MUCH and I guess I am a minority on that one...). But are you saying that the other person who trades INTO DVC also has to pay the $95 fee so it's a deterrent for people to trade in?

Yes, those who exchange in also have to pay a $95 fee to DVC.

Buying DVC to trade is a poor choice. The trade options are not guaranteed and greatly hit or miss as well as being far too expesive and having far greater options that will do better MUCH cheaper. However, if one does own and wants to trade, there are ways to do so and get a much better value IF you get the trade. The worst part to me is that I think it would be fairly easy for DVC to make trading a far better value and shift it from being a poor choice to being a great choice. They just leave far too much on the table and I think it's simply they want so much control and I frankly don't think they want it to be a good option to trade and don't want to encourage much trading in spite of their rhetorric.

We didn't buy JUST to trade but we DID buy with the intentions to trade SOMETIMES since it was touted as an option. Once every few years or so we figured. DVC does NOT make it seem like it would be such an ordeal to do tho that's for sure! They make it sound like it will be just as easy as booking a DVC unit at WDW. That DOES seem like a mis-representation now that we own and read all about it.

I suppose it is easy as far as the process goes. It's just that people new to timeshares and trading often have expectations that exceed the reality. Those who trade DVC have found that it is difficult to get the more popular resorts during more popular times - for all the reasons Pat and Dean listed. If that is what you want, you may have better luck doing the exchange yourself. But then you have to find someone who has what you want and do the "due diligence" required for a private transaction.

 

[BWV Dreamin]

We didn't buy JUST to trade but we DID buy with the intentions to trade SOMETIMES since it was touted as an option. Once every few years or so we figured. DVC does NOT make it seem like it would be such an ordeal to do tho that's for sure! They make it sound like it will be just as easy as booking a DVC unit at WDW. That DOES seem like a mis-representation now that we own and read all about it.

I am most definitely going to try and trade into II every now and then. I don't think it is a waste of using DVC pts. Its all about personal preference, and our DVC points are already paid for. Unless one trys for a trade at an extremely popular time, I think most are getting their trades. Dean has a chart of successful trade percentages....maybe he can post it.

 

[bwvBound]

I know we have to pay the $95 fee (which actually doesn't bother me THAT MUCH and I guess I am a minority on that one...). But are you saying that the other person who trades INTO DVC also has to pay the $95 fee so it's a deterrent for people to trade in?

Yes, even if the person trading in is already a DVC member.

 

[Kathi OD]

We didn't buy JUST to trade but we DID buy with the intentions to trade SOMETIMES since it was touted as an option. Once every few years or so we figured. DVC does NOT make it seem like it would be such an ordeal to do tho that's for sure! They make it sound like it will be just as easy as booking a DVC unit at WDW. That DOES seem like a mis-representation now that we own and read all about it.

We didn't buy DVC just to trade either. We primarily use it for vacations within the DVC system. However, we have used it to trade out to II and have been successful in getting what we wanted, when we wanted to go. Now I know that some people try to determine whether what they got was "equal value" to what they gave away. DH and I are not concerned about that part of the equation. We make a determination with regard to where we want to vacation (location) and then if there is a resort we can trade into, we're good. When travelling outside of DVC we aren't usually looking for the "whole resort package," as we're usually spending most of our time outside of the resort sightseeing.

It has worked for us. Depending on your personal preferences, it might not work for you.

 

[spiceycat]

have no faith in II or DVC - they actually put Westgate in the list for Tenn - no one should EVER trade to westgate.

even if it the best one in that market - their sales people are horrible.

 

[bwvBound]

Why do people have trouble trading their DVC with other timeshare owners? And likewise, why does it seem like anyone with a timeshare anywhere else in the world can get a DVC villa easily? I know people with timeshares who make trading seem like the best thing since sliced bread, yet we are cautioned that it isn't the best deal if you have DVC. Why?

Speaking from my personal experiences: trading DVC is too costly compared to other alternatives. My other timeshare options were less expensive to purchase, remain less expensive in annual dues and offer trade bonuses. Examples of trade bonuses:

• Bonus weeks: RCI and other exchange companies offer me one or two Bonus Weeks every time I exchange my summer coastal week. Literally, I get two or three weeks of vacation from a single week of ownership. (The bonus weeks are generally off-season or lower quality resorts -- but still I'm going places!!)
• Low cost exchanges in the "last minute" windows: When booking exchanges w/in 59-days of travel (II) or 45-days of travel (RCI) I can book any resort, any size unit, any season paying the equivalent of a "low season studio."
• Trade ups: My 1BR SoCAL Coastal Summer unit easily trades into larger units (2BR, 3BR).
• Direct, individual Exchange Company memberships: My other timeshares allow me to join the various exchange companies as an individual -- with direct access to all the options offered by that company. (My favorite benefits: online searching, access to Bonus Vacations/Getaway weeks.)

So, with DVC, I pay for exactly what I get. It is a fair system and made "easy" by using Member Services and without having to pay a membership fee with an exchange company.

With my SoCAL summer week however, I pay dues on a 1BR unit and exchange into a 2BR unit ... and get one or more bonus weeks to use later. (Yes, I have to pay membership to the exchange company, and exchange fees on each week I use ... but not dues on the extra weeks.)

With my other point system, I pay for dues on a "low season studio" and exchange into a lovely 2BR unit in a highly desirable SoCAL beach resort -- as long as the exchange was made w/in 59-days of travel. (Again, I pay dues for the II membership, dues on the "low season studio" week and the exchange fee -- but "steal" a great trade from the system!)

Seems nearly every timeshare has its special "hook." Many are related to trading: lock-offs, last minute upgrades, bonus weeks, etc. These offer the owner an ability to "game" the system, even if only a little. DVC certainly has its special merits -- but none relate to trading. If DVC would give us any of those options -- especially the discounted last minute trades -- we might be singing a happier tune here on exchanging.

 

[spiceycat]

[*]Low cost exchanges in the "last minute" windows: When booking exchanges w/in 59-days of travel (II) or 45-days of travel (RCI) I can book any resort, any size unit, any season paying the equivalent of a "low season studio."

though everyone pay the same for last minute RCI ONLY
$199 for a studio
$219 for a 1-bedroom
$249 for a 2-bedroom

so you can get a 2-bedroom and pay only $199 - or am I missing something?

 

[CarolMN]

though everyone pay the same for last minute RCI ONLY
$199 for a studio
$219 for a 1-bedroom
$249 for a 2-bedroom

so you can get a 2-bedroom and pay only $199 - or am I missing something?

Can any member of the general public pay those prices or do you have to be a member of RCI?

I took bwvBound's statement as a "trading benefit" that DVC members do not have.

 

[spiceycat]

Can any member of the general public pay those prices or do you have to be a member of RCI?

I took bwvBound's statement as a "trading benefit" that DVC members do not have.

you have to be a member.

if you want a deal and not joing RCI - then go look at
www.skyauction.com

they are having their sale again. $199 for any week - but these are generally only 45 or less days - and not the best timeshares.

 

[spiceycat]

for ii - there pricing is different - depends upon which timeshares you trade into and where

orlando -
studio - $259 to $439
1-bedroom - $349 to $549
2-bedroom - $409 tp $619

mexico (cancum mostly)
studio - $404 to $479
1-bedroom $434 to $499
2-bedroom $409 to $619

so they vary a whole lot.

if you want some not so great timeshare with II - then go to
www.condodirect.com

you will pay more than II members - but these are still a good deal (well kinda of)

no marriott or DVC will be listed here - there are a couple of others (westgate I think) that won't be listed on condodirect.

 

[Anal Annie]

We didn't buy DVC just to trade either. We primarily use it for vacations within the DVC system. However, we have used it to trade out to II and have been successful in getting what we wanted, when we wanted to go. Now I know that some people try to determine whether what they got was "equal value" to what they gave away. DH and I are not concerned about that part of the equation. We make a determination with regard to where we want to vacation (location) and then if there is a resort we can trade into, we're good. When travelling outside of DVC we aren't usually looking for the "whole resort package," as we're usually spending most of our time outside of the resort sightseeing.

It has worked for us. Depending on your personal preferences, it might not work for you.

We typically only vacation during the summer because of school and limited amounts of vacation time. I would imagine with me being so-o anal I will research the heck out of any property we would consider trading to before initiating the trade. We would probably also try to be open to a couple of different dates which I hope would help our odds of being successful. I know that there could be times when we could book a "package deal" like thru Costco or something that would actually make the nightly rate less but we would be looking at it as an expense that we're saving on out of pocket. I also realize that trades to say Aruba or Hawaii might have a higher overall value than a trade to say Mexico, depending on the property. (i.e. I would not use DVC to stay in Ocean City, MD.)

 

[bwvBound]

though everyone pay the same for last minute RCI ONLY
$199 for a studio
$219 for a 1-bedroom
$249 for a 2-bedroom

so you can get a 2-bedroom and pay only $199 - or am I missing something?

Pat, I was referring to Exchange inventory, not Bonus Vacations. The idea is that my "blue studio" can book anything left in the exchange inventory -- including 2 and 3 bedroom units, any season, any resort -- based on availability during the 59-day (II) and 45-day (RCI) windows.

Why should I pay a "full price exchange" for distressed inventory?

 

[bwvBound]

for ii - there pricing is different - depends upon which timeshares you trade into and where

For exchanges (trades), I pay the same fee regardless of unit size, season, etc. (I do pay different fees for domestic vs international exchanges). Do the fees in your thread refer to rental weeks (Getaways, Bonus Vacations, etc.) instead of exchanges?

 

[Anal Annie]

I'm not Dean, but I think I know what he meant. DVC chooses a week to deposit into II. We don't know how they choose. However, the weeks available for others to trade into DVC are almost always off season weeks and from the larger resorts. We very seldom see BCV, or VWL and only occasionally see BWV weeks. Don't recall anyone saying they got a summer week at HH and I don't think VB weeks are available very often either. The weeks DVC chooses to deposit affect members' trade power.
Well that just bites. (Can I say that on the DIS?!)

Yes, those who exchange in also have to pay a $95 fee to DVC.

I suppose it is easy as far as the process goes. It's just that people new to timeshares and trading often have expectations that exceed the reality. Those who trade DVC have found that it is difficult to get the more popular resorts during more popular times - for all the reasons Pat and Dean listed. If that is what you want, you may have better luck doing the exchange yourself. But then you have to find someone who has what you want and do the "due diligence" required for a private transaction.

Guess we'll see how it goes in a couple of years when we try to trade. The new DVC at Ko'Olina will be helpful to us for sure, although we usually spend the majority of our time on Maui. We could make an exception tho to avoid the hassles of trading! We went to Aruba on our honeymoon and I wouldn't mind trying to go back one day...

 

[spiceycat]

For exchanges (trades), I pay the same fee regardless of unit size, season, etc. (I do pay different fees for domestic vs international exchanges). Do the fees in your thread refer to rental weeks (Getaways, Bonus Vacations, etc.) instead of exchanges?

yes - these are the last call vacations with RCI so 60 days out

with II - these are the getaways - II has different prices for different places and seasons.

 

[bwvBound]

Can any member of the general public pay those prices or do you have to be a member of RCI?

I took bwvBound's statement as a "trading benefit" that DVC members do not have.

Yes, my bullets were referring referring to trading benefits -- however access to rental weeks is certainly a benefit of having direct membership in RCI, II and other exchange companies. For better or worse, II does not extend direct membership to folks owning DVC but no other qualifying timeshare.