Can I trust the wife after this??

[kessieann]

Joe I sent you a PM-hope that is ok

 

[Boston Tea Party]

Originally posted by Dakota_Lynn
I may be way off base here, but I just want to throw in another idea. Addiction comes in many forms, not just alcohol and drugs. People also get addicted to food, gambling, spending and many, many other things. This typically happens when a person feels incomplete...they find something that gives them pleasure (spending, eating, drinking) so they can temporarily forget thier problems. Since your wife's spending issues developed in the last three years (she hasn't always been that way), it sounds like a new behavior which makes me wonder if she has developed such an addiction. If that is the case, you may want to consider counselling for both of you to figure out what area in her life is lacking so that the two of you can learn to fill those voids in ways other than spending money.

I agree. Best of luck to you both.

 

[DebbieB]

The girl that used to sit next to me at work made a comment a couple years ago that her mother has to run over to her house on the 28th of each month in order to get her department store bill from the mailbox before her husband came home. She was always down at the department store at lunch time and brought back expensive outfits. These days very few women wear dresses or suits at work but this girl is always dressed to the 9's, I think to "showoff". Meanwhile, her husband worked for this dept store in the warehouse, so she had a discount card for this store. From the way she talked about her husband, it didn't sound like a good marriage. I started to suspect that they were separated when she started shopping at a different store and making bad comments about her husband's store. I no longer sit near her, I never did find out if they were really separated or divorced. She's still wearing those expensive outfits.

I agree with DoeWDW, get some counseling, there are more problems under the surface if you can't talk about this.

 

[Lynn CC]

Joe, I'm sorry your going through this, you must feel so shocked by this news.
What I would do is go online to myfico.com and get a credit report from them. You can get one for your social security number or just your wifes. I'm assuming you know her ss#.
The three major credit resourses report to my fico...experian, equifax and one other that I can't think of right now.
You pay online and within minutes you can see every credit card and loan that was open and if obligations are being met on that ss#.
and your fico score which is important to know if your going for a mortgatge.


I would let my wife know what I plan to do. Tell her you want an open and honest relationship. Her debt is your debt, afterall your married now. Good Luck and {HUGS} to you Joe.
Your not the only one that is going through this...have you ever watched the Suze Orman Show. It's on tonight from 8-10 on CNBC..you can learn a lot!

 

[annemariec]

YIKES!! Shocking!

As others have stated, I think it is "shared debt" when you're married. It stinks doesn't it?

I love Suze Orman, Lynn CC! She has sage advice.

Joe, for whatever reason or reasons your wife has racked up this enormous bill, I wouldn't trust her! I would also seek legal advice to see if there is any way to block any debt you may be held responsible for in the future.

Just my 2 cents. Good luck.

Annemarie

 

[Toby'sFriend]

Sorry Joe. $15k in debt is amazingly easy to accomplish, I've seen it many times. Lunches with friends, trips to the grocery store, a few outfits here and there, I'd be willing to be there was even some stuff in there that she bought for you -- and then just making the minimum payments. $15k over 3 years is a little over $400 a month. A couple living just a little over their income level can easily accomplish that. I hope it's nothing more serious than that, because if it's the case, then the problem will be much easier to fix.

But back to your question, should you trust her after this? Well it's not that easy because in most marriages, both parties should be involved in the finances, Although she is certainly guilty of obtaining alot of debt without including you, you are also guilty of not doing your part in staying involved in the household budgeting and bill paying.

I'm also married to a guy that just doesn't get involved and it is so frustrating to me that when I say -- No we don't have the money for that he doesn't know why and then acts like I'm embezzling all his paycheck and diverting it to some super secret offshore account. Either that or I must have a safe full of diamands and jewels hidden somewhere....at least in his opinion. :lol He's just clueless, I don't think he could tell you what our average electric bill is if you offered him a steak dinner for the correct answer. Thankfully in these situations Quicken is a Godsend. Those reports of "extra" ATM withdrawals and budget vs. actual spending can be quite an eye opener.

I hope you work it out Joe. There is a reason money is the number one cause of divorce, these issues are never easy for any couple to deal with.

 

[Pixie_Dust]

Originally posted by joe
I guess I should now go out and cheat on her and use the same lame excuse.

Red flag! I can't believe no one commented on this. Are you looking for an excuse? THERE IS NONE. No matter what she has done there is NO excuse for you to make it worse by opening that can of worms!

Other than that, good luck! Dear Abby always says if your spouse won't go for counseling, go yourself, but it sounds like task #1 is to account for that $15,000. That is shocking to read (we have never even had that much at any one time in 20 years of marriage), so yes it is a big deal and definitely it is your business!

 

[disykat]

I think Joe comment was pointing out that her excuse wasn't valid - not that he planned on retaliating.

I wondered about addiction too, just because of her "none of your business" response. I agree with the people who suggest immediate counseling. Your finances = your business. She cannot use the excuse that she's unhappy with the way you communicate to rack up bills. Counseling may help you work through the issues, but trust will probably always be an issue from now on.

 

[joe]

Thanks for the responses.

No, I don't plan on cheating on her.

I'm just sick of the attitude that because she works she thinks she can spend as much money as she wants. I have every intention of finding out what the money was spent on and how it got to be such a high amount. I also think a credit report every 6 months would be a requirement for me to make sure she isn't doing it again.

I have an inheritance coming and I need to make a decision soon. I am not going to let her throw all of that money away too. Unfortunately, this will always be something that will be on my mind.

 

[chell]

Good luck Joe! Hope you get all the answers soon.

 

[BibbidyBobbidyBoo]

Originally posted by Christine
joe,
My household sounds like yours in that I am the wife that manages all the money. My DH has never really taken an interest in what the finances look like until he wants to go out and buy something and I tell him that we don't really have the money for it. He then kind of pouts around and wants to see the inflow/outflow of cash, which fortunately, I can show him since we use Quicken. Having said that, I could easily rack of $15K in credit card debt if I wanted to and he would never know it, nor would it be a "malicious" or "non-communicative" move on my part. I am just in control of the money and it would be easy to think that I could get a handle on it in a few months. I'm sure that this is what happened with your wife--she probably started spending a little out of control and felt she could keep on top of it and couldn't.

At this point, her wrongdoing was her response when you questioned her. I'm sure she's very embarrassed by what she's done and doesn't want to be questioned about it. But, you do have a right to know. I think that this is where her parents are correct in the "not communicating" part. Maybe she just did what she wanted and you haven't been overly interested in the finances. You know, there's nothing wrong with letting the finances fall to one spouse. I know plenty of marriages like that. Some people are just not interested or do not have the knack to manage that. But the one partner that does has GOT to be trustworthy and good at it. So, it seems to me that your wife does need to apologize for how she responded to you and realize that she's made a mistake. Then you need to find out how you can both clean it up.

I totally agree- especially the part above that I have in bold.
Problem is... sometimes if you aren't "interested" in the finances you don't find out that they AREN'T good at it or aren't trustworthy until it's too late- damage is done.

I'm also married to a guy that just doesn't get involved and it is so frustrating to me that when I say -- No we don't have the money for that he doesn't know why and then acts like I'm embezzling all his paycheck and diverting it to some super secret offshore account. Either that or I must have a safe full of diamands and jewels hidden somewhere....at least in his opinion. :lol He's just clueless, I don't think he could tell you what our average electric bill is if you offered him a steak dinner for the correct answer. Thankfully in these situations Quicken is a Godsend. Those reports of "extra" ATM withdrawals and budget vs. actual spending can be quite an eye opener.

My husband is the same way/I'm the same way. I handle the finances and sometimes I think he must think those same things. LOL Not truly though- because if he wants to see the finances- I can certainly show him why we can't afford this or that at the time.

I think it is very wrong to say it's none of your business -her debt is your debt, it most certainly IS your business.

 

[TIGGERSMOM]

I have to agree 15,000 over 3 years is so easy to rack up. That is only 5,000 a year, which is easy to spend. ost men don't think of how much womens clothes - designer cost. SO if she simply bought 1 DNKY or Prada jacket there is 500-600 dollars. I know from whence I speak.

Long story short, my EX walked leaving me single w/DS. My income was good but not great and I started to rack up huge bills because since my DS didn't have Dad he needed the best of everything. I covered our regular expenses easily. Well 8 years later I was over 25,000 in debt and drowning. Get a new card to pay old card etc...

When I met my DH we talked marriage, he asked about my finances. I was so ashamed I hid it. I was hugely defensive about it, like your DW. We finally talked, he gave me ultimatum, let him see all the bills or he was out. I almost let him go, but he wouldn't let me. You need to TALK to her. DO NOT SHOUT - no matter how much she protests you must tell her you can work it out together(that is if you still want to - you must also decide that).

Insist on seeing all the bills, find out which are current. Which are overdue. Since you do not mention calls to your home I assume she is current on all. Now here is hard part, you and she have to pay off what you can. Lower rates on others if you can. But you must SEE the bills EVERY MONTH! A credit report is great but it is after the fact. They might be an idea for maintaining.

You must also know, even if you divorce these a communal debts. This is so in most states. SO it would behoove you to clear as much as possible.

Can you consolidate on a new HO loan?
Move the accounts from bank, she has too much access.
Now you must step up and start paying the bills.
Get a PO Box and start having bills sent there, you keep the key.

My DH paid my debts, that was 12 years ago. We are in great shape credit wise, but believe me I let him see all the bills (yes I pay them). He knows I would never do that again, but it took a few years before he relaxed. If you stick it out the trust can be restored.

 

[Stepharoonie!]

This sounds a bit familiar...


My mom remarried after my father died. When they were signing the pre-nup, her new hubby asked her to be upfront about any bills, etc. before they signed. Well, she signed it without saying anything about 2 credit card bills and a car.

Car was repossessed (he hasn't found out about that yet), two credit cards were a year behind..one is about $11K and the other was $10K. Last week, one of them demanded payment or court. That one was $10K. Of course, they tracked her down and spoke to her husband. He paid it, but now that has to be paid back. He asked her point blank if there was anything else, and she said no.

Well...now the second card is starting to pound on her door, and she just will not own up to it.

I was always up front and honest with my hubby about any money spent, but I know in my heart there is just NO WAY you can (or should) hide anything in a marriage.

 

[bumcat]

I think the "it's none of your business" would really bother me. Is this her attitude with other stuff? This is a marriage and it is your business! I guess I'm cheap because I (I'm female) cant imagine running up 15,000 in credit cards in 3 years! That's crazy, but then again we pay cash for everything except the vehicles and emergencies.

 

[Pooh93]

An issue very similar to yours only it was my dh that did the racking up of the bills for his construction business. He kept telling me he could handle it and alas when the creditors started calling, I knew he couldn't handle it! If you had asked me a year ago at this exact time, I'd have told you we were headed for divorce. Had I not had my two young dd's, I without a doubt would have left. I screamed at him, told he might as well have cheated on me and I basically couldn't stand to be in the same room with him for months. I have always handled the payment of all bills for our home, utilities, groceries, etc, so none of that was in jeopardy. I have always had credit cards in my name only and his were in his name only. We finally refinanced our home to combine "his" debt. But I was the one that had to clean up the mess. Do I and did I resent him for it??? YES Will I ever trust him again regarding money?? Probably not. He will NEVER have another credit card as long as he is married to me. At this point, he doesn't want anymore credit cards either. Harsh, you might say, but that's the way it is. Should we have gone to counseling? Yes. A year later things are looking much brighter and looking back, I don't know how we made it, but we did.

I hope all of this rambling makes some sort of sense to you, but I can wholeheartedly understand your feelings of betrayal. Just remember that two wrongs, don't make a right, so don't do anything that you will have to apologize for later.

 

[Serena]

Go to counseling, marital and financial. It's very possible she got in over her head and didn't know how to deal with it and now she's defensive about it.
If you didn't know about any of it, then you are partially to blame.

This is a major hurdle in your marriage, help each other over it and please, don't be thinking of revenge, even in jest. She needs you now.

 

[C.Ann]

That's a tough question - because there are so many things that we don't know about this situation..

What kind of lifestyle are the two of you accustomed to - and is your combined salaries sufficient to cover those expenses?

How much of her salary goes into the "community pot" - to cover household bills and such - and is there money leftover for her to spend freely?

Is she behind in payments on this debt - or has she been able to stay current?

Prior to your learning of this hidden debt, what was your attitude towards her financial contributions to the household and her "spending" money?

What is your attitude towards money in general? Do you want to save every dime for a rainy day/retirement fund - thereby leaving your other family members feeling somehow deprived?

------------------------------

I think before the woman is fried - or deemed as totally untrustworthy - there needs to be an accurate accounting of
both sides of the story...

I witnessed a very similar situation a few years ago and while the poor woman was intially deemed a "sneak", it was a real eye opener when all the cards were laid out on the table..

Not saying that's the case with you Joe, but so far all I've read here (unless I missed something) is that your wife has a large debt that you weren't aware of and you want to know if you can ever trust her again..

I'd need a lot more information before I could venture a guess at that..

 

[Kallison]

Sounds like she is a spendaholic who doesn't know how to delay gratification. Unfortunately I know too many people like that. I would rather live within my means than keep up with the Jones' and go to bed with a clear conscience. Hope you work it out.

 

[annemariec]

Originally posted by joe
... I have an inheritance coming and I need to make a decision soon. I am not going to let her throw all of that money away too. Unfortunately, this will always be something that will be on my mind.

It'll be on your mind for good reason, too. I'd say run and get some legal advice on how you can handle your inheritance!

From what I've read, I'd have a hard time dealing with a spouse that has a BIG spending problem and a BAD attitude. Double whammy. Makes communicating kinda hard, I'd gather.

What a way to start a new year!
Annemarie

 

[GAIL HAYDEN]

Originally posted by joe
I've been married 7 years and I don't remember seeing anything other than about $1,000 on her credit report 3 years ago when we bought the house. She said she was doing this to "keep us from running out of money" but that's a crock. You don't go to Macy's and Dillard's to save yourself from personal debt.

Eve if that were true, which it isn't, I think telling me that money is tight is better than ringing up an incredible amount of debt. I spoke to her parents and they said it is because we don't communicate. I guess I should now go out and cheat on her and use the same lame excuse.

Yep, that will work, compound the issue with stuff that has no issue with anything else. Get counseling.