Can I do this???

[PKS44]

If I have points for This Use Year that I might use this use year or might want to bank to Next Year and I make a Reservation next year using Next Year's points, but then later decide I do not want to use This Year's Points this year but will bank them instead (within banking deadlines)--- can I then use those banked points for the already-made reservation next year, thus freeing up some of Next Year's Points for other use or banking???...or do I have to cancel the reservation and remake the reservation using This Year's Points and if it is a hard to get reservation-(like BWV standard views) might I then be out of luck?

Is that clear as mud? How about it, experts?

Paul

 

[Richyams]

I understood perfectly, and yes you 'could' be out of luck.

THis kind of falls under the same premise as making BWV reservations using BWV points then changing the reservations at seven months to your VB points. If you could do this without giving people on the waiting list a chance to get that reservation, you will have actually circumvented home resort priority rules.....I know that is not what you are trying to do, but it kind of falls into the same catagory.

You may also get a sympatheitc CM who may bend the rule, I am not sure if that happens or even if the can do that.

 

[sheryl0521]

Here was our situation...

Purchased BCV 2002

We made a ressie (Nov 2002) using 95 points this year and banked our remaining 2002 points. We then changed our ressie to a 1-bed at BCV which used 119 pts. Since we had already banked our remaining pts from this year, they "borrowed" the 24 points from next year to cover the increase.

At first we were confused, but realized that it all works out in the end and we still have our correct allotment of points for this year and next.

We were told that our first 2003 ressie will use the banked 2002 points first and then start to use the normal use year points.

Hope this helps?!?

 

[luckytso]

Sheryl,

I love your Xmas mickey at the bottom, it is so adorable!!!

 

[jennybobenny]

I'm certainly not an expert and will defer to those DVCers with more experience in the banking/borrowing department, but I thought member services could 'reallocate' point usage for pre-existing reservations. For instance, if you made a reservation with a combination of banked points and current points and then decided to cancel a day - MS could make sure that particular day uses 'current' points so after the cancellation those points would still be bankable.
Using PKS' situation...the reservation already exists. This years points get banked so wouldn't MS be able to reallocate those banked points into the reservation, freeing up the future points for bankability?
OMG, now I've confused myself. Just when I think I've got a grasp on the whole banking/borrowing thing....

 

[kem330]

Last week I called MS to make a ressie at VB this weekend. I had to borrow from Dec '02 use year for this ressie. Then we potentially needed another room for family and I did not have enough '02 points left as I am using the rest for our NY's trip to BCV. I specifically asked if it was possible to borrow some Dec '03 BCV points to cover my 12/28 - 1/3/03 trip then free up '02 points to be borrowed and she checked and said yes. So IF you are using/replacing a home resort ressie with home resort points, I do believe it is possible and does not come under the 7/11 month rule or any other.

 

[RobDoc]

can I then use those banked points for the already-made reservation next year, thus freeing up some of Next Year's Points for other use or banking???...

Yes, I think you can do that. Since you are not trying to use points from a non-home resort, but merely reallocating points from the same contract, I think MS will be happy to assist. This won't affect any home resort balance of points and is good account management.

If you reach a CM at MS who is unwilling to do this, I'd even suggest calling back later to try with a second CM.

Good Luck!

 

[Dean]

No one can answer your question for you other than MS at the time you ask them substituted the points. The reason is that technically you should be asked to cancel and remake the reservations but MS can substitute the points if they chose to do so. If you want an absolute answer now, you will need to cancel and reschedule the reservations. At a later date, you may have more favorable results.

 

[PKS44]

Originally posted by Dean
No one can answer your question for you other than MS at the time you ask them substituted the points. The reason is that technically you should be asked to cancel and remake the reservations but MS can substitute the points if they chose to do so. If you want an absolute answer now, you will need to cancel and reschedule the reservations. At a later date, you may have more favorable results.

Why technically would they need to do this? Here is another example. Suppose I made a 7 day reservation day by day at a popular time for a standard studio... for the first day reservation I used Banked points, then current points for the other days..then later I had to cancel that first day...if I wanted to use those Banked points first BEFORE dipping into the current points I would have to cancel one of the other days and then try to rebook that day using the banked points? And I would have to get on the waitlist possibly? That seems weird. Is that what is supposed to happen technically? Is there an official policy on point shifting/reservations, etc.???

 

[hoosiergirl]

I would advise you to be VERY careful. Something very similar just happened to me and it hasn't worked out yet!

I used non-home resort points to book 2 vacations--both 7 months out or less. I used non-banked points for the first one (rented this one) and banked points for the second (my ressie). I specifically asked if I could re-allocate the banked points from the second ressie to the first after I received the money from the renter of the first. Sure, the cast member said. No problem! I made sure to ask if the ressies would have to be cancelled and rebooked in order to do this. No was the answer.

I called last week and asked to do this and got a firm "We can't do that without cancelling and re-booking." I still haven't talked with a supervisor about it but I plan to. So......make sure you get the cast member's name, etc. in case it later doesn't work out!

 

[RobDoc]

Using non-home points does affect the process. Reallocation of home resort reservations won't change the balance of points at all and doesn't truly affect those on the wait list.

Changes with non-home points is little different and may require cancelling and rebooking in order to be fair to those on the waitlist.

As always, MS will have the final say with these issues.

Good luck!

 

[hoosiergirl]

Oops! Sorry--I must have missed the part about ressie being at a home resort with home resort points. I'm sorry if this is be-laboring the question, but if the ressies are made less than 7 months out, why does it matter if the points are home or non-home points? Ressies would be fair game for everyone at that point. Just confused, I guess. Not trying to argue anyone's expertise.....I am lacking in expertise in this area, that's for sure!!

 

[ILuvDVC]

When I first joined DVC in 1994...the only way to switch points for a reservation was to cancel that reservation (freeing up that room for the wait list) and then rebooking it, if there is no wait list. That was the only way any point switching could be done period...no ands, ifs or buts about it.

Then, about 1 or 2 years ago, can't remember now, seems like yesterday...I got wind that people were simply switching points out at 7 months out.....NOT GOOD! But hey...I called Member Services and asked if in fact this could happen....they said sure...I said....wow, cool, now I can use all my OKW points to stay at BW at 11 months out. LOL, I was being sarcastic (spelling?). Anyhow, I asked to speak to a manager, and she finally got a hold of the legal department, I explained how my owning OKW and BW, and being able to switch points around gave me the home resort advantage for all my points. Anyhow, they talked with the Legal department and Member Services were set straight.

I believe the same rules should apply for any reservation. I reservation point allotment cannot be switched around unless there is room availability for that unit.

For what I gather...DVC points were set up in a certain way for a reason. And, switching points around to help members who lost track of their points and were going to lose them, was not part of the system. The way it was explained to me, by causing the cancelation of reservation to switch points around, it would make the point system work the way it should. If I have a reservation in December.....then later, I decide to add a trip in November, so I have to borrow points. If, at the last minute, I find out I have to cancel my November trip...there is no way DVC Should switch those points over to the December reservation...had the December reservation not been there, then those points would go to waste (all depending on the use year, and booking other points).

All I can say is, it does make a difference if points are moved around, and I don't think they should be doing it for same home resort reports...maybe it's time to call Member Services and the Legal department again?

 

[Dean]

Originally posted by PKS44
Why technically would they need to do this? Here is another example. Suppose I made a 7 day reservation day by day at a popular time for a standard studio... for the first day reservation I used Banked points, then current points for the other days..then later I had to cancel that first day...if I wanted to use those Banked points first BEFORE dipping into the current points I would have to cancel one of the other days and then try to rebook that day using the banked points? And I would have to get on the waitlist possibly? That seems weird. Is that what is supposed to happen technically? Is there an official policy on point shifting/reservations, etc.???

I'm going to take a different stance from Doc. IMO, points should not be substituted later just for the benefit of the member. If there is availability, obviously it doesn't matter. I really see no difference whether it's home resort points or not. The issue is that DVC has set the policy that in order to substitute points, you must cancel and then rebook. They should, and usually do, apply this equally regardless of which home resort the points or the member belong to. Do they employ some flexibility at times, of course they do.

Put another way, MS should not substitute banked or borrowed home resort points unless they will do this for everyone that is otherwise following the rules. The example you give is a little different as I'd look at the points for one reservation as a group and if one cancelled a day, it should free up the better points.

Here's a different example that explains the potentially unfair nature of what's being discussed. Lets assume one makes 2 reservations, both for rental. The first week is with banked points, the second week with current points. They are consecutive weeks and for exactly the same number of points. The second week is sold out and there is a waiting list of members trying to stay there. The renter for the first week backs out but the owner finds a new renter but for a time after the use year. He wants to swap the banked points for the current year points then bank them to the next use year to use for the new replacement rental. It is my contention that this is unfair to the members on the wait list and should not be allowed to happen without cancelling the second reservation and then rebooking if available. I do realize there are many sides and issues here and that each situation will be different.

 

[hoosiergirl]

Even though it worked against me, I agree with you that re-allocation of points shouldn't happen unless it's there for everyone. I was only upset because I specifically asked about this BEFORE I made the reservations and was actually ADVISED by a cast member to do it a certain way--which was the WRONG way! It sounds like periodic training is in order so that all MS cast members are on the same page! It can really affect us--especially when we truly have the desire to abide by the rules!

 

[Terry S]

I recently did an add on of 100 points which gave me 100 2002 points and 100 2003 points. I immediately banked my 2002 points. I then asked about a reservation that I had already made with my 2003 points and asked if I could use those 100 banked 2002 for that reservation and they said no problem and re-allocated my points. This was all with my home resort.

 

[ILuvDVC]

It is no problem, if there is availability for that resort and room type.

 

[PKS44]

Originally posted by ILuvDVC
It is no problem, if there is availability for that resort and room type.

Well- isnt that just saying that you are cancelling and re-booking then? That is no question about the ability to do that...The question is about true "re-allocation" of points without losing a reservation.

I don't really see the unfairness of using home resort points for home resort...not the situation described by ILuvDVC in the earlier post where you used BWV points to hold the reservation then switch to OKW points...that is NOT the question here and would clearly undermine the 11 month advantage...we are talking about using points always good at 11 months and exchanging them for points always good at 11 months.--- why Dean sees his hypothetical situation as so unfair--that I don't really get...the reservations were all made with valid points at the 11 month mark and so long as points are banked within appropriate deadlines, I don't see how anybody is "cheated." Maybe I just don't understand the system--but I don't see a big difference between Dean's "unfair" example and mine which he accepts as fair...they are all legitimate reservations made with legitimate points and how those points get allocated ought to be governed by appropriate deadlines--- people are on the waitlist because they did not get their reservation in first- not because somebody used banked or borrowed or current points. In my example the banked points by chance end up being on the day cancelled..in Dean's example, the banked points by chance end up being with the renter cancelling...either way the reservation was made on time, in earnest, with valid points. I do wish there were a clearly written policy about this...and I appreciate everybody's thoughts on this murky area...

Paul

 

[Dean]

Originally posted by PKS44
I don't really see the unfairness of using home resort points for home resort...not the situation described by ILuvDVC in the earlier post where you used BWV points to hold the reservation then switch to OKW points...that is NOT the question here and would clearly undermine the 11 month advantage...we are talking about using points always good at 11 months and exchanging them for points always good at 11 months.--- why Dean sees his hypothetical situation as so unfair--that I don't really get...the reservations were all made with valid points at the 11 month mark and so long as points are banked within appropriate deadlines, I don't see how anybody is "cheated." Maybe I just don't understand the system--but I don't see a big difference between Dean's "unfair" example and mine which he accepts as fair...they are all legitimate reservations made with legitimate points and how those points get allocated ought to be governed by appropriate deadlines--- people are on the waitlist because they did not get their reservation in first- not because somebody used banked or borrowed or current points. In my example the banked points by chance end up being on the day cancelled..in Dean's example, the banked points by chance end up being with the renter cancelling...either way the reservation was made on time, in earnest, with valid points. I do wish there were a clearly written policy about this...and I appreciate everybody's thoughts on this murky area...

Paul

Paul, we may have to agree to disagree. To me, reallocating the points is unfair, home resort or not. It's doubly unfair to give that option to home resort points but no other DVC members at or after the 7 month window. The worst scenario would be substituting non home resort for home resorts points thus bypassing the 11/7 month window. The only exception I see as acceptable is when MS made a mistake, they should be able to correct it. This is what I've understood are the rules all along but as long as they are consistent and I can find out what the rules are, it's ok either way. Remember that the member is wanting reallocation for a reason, to have more potential use and flexibility with the freed up points. Not only would they be keeping their place in line but they would be making a new reseration with the freed up points potentially filling the resort up then as well. I've never admitted this nor have I heard anyone else admit it but like it or not, the system is built on the idea that some people will lose points some of the time. I will try to make sure it's not me but it may be in the future.

 

[PKS44]

Well- I hate finding myself disagreeing with Dean -who is not just one of this site's precious resources but a great source of timeshare knowledge and wisdom on the whole darn internet...that said, I don't think the system has to depend on people losing points. I think it depends on the developers/owners of the property knowing exactly what their occupancy will be as far in advance as possible and holding onto the money for those rooms as far in advance as possible. Unlike a hotel room which can be cancelled as late as just a day ahead, DVC requires 31 days warning. And actually once your points enter various checkpoints for banking including 0% for the last 60 days of a Use Year- you are "stuck" having to use them or lose them so that they know those are points they don't have to worry about. I always thought the strength was in knowing in advance, which is why it seems more important to me that deadlines be observed than whether you move around points within those deadlines...

Paul