Can Disney admit that FP+ and MDE are a fail?

[Tonka's Skipper]

Or one could base it on the thousands of comments on the WDW Facebook page that are 3:1 negative.

however many of those comments are the same people repeating over and over.

AKK

 

[Bluegrrl]

Just wanted to whisk in here, and say thank you to everyone for the nice discussion. Everyone is making great points, and I mainly was posing the question of how long is Disney going to continue to invest in an over budget people tracking system when it could have invested in revamping of old rides, infrastructure improvements, light rail systems (instead of more pollution causing buses.), creating better food, and redecorating/revamping hotels.

One thing: I am a local. I am also a Passholder. When I got to Disney, I eat at their sit-down restaurants as well as the FF ones. My DS celebrates his birthday at Crystal Palace, and we have eaten at Le Cellier, the French Bistro, Biergarden, Boma, Tony's, Cinderella's, Morroco, Mexico, and many other sit-downs. To say locals only come in for a day, eat at the FF places and FF on the way home is a little offensive. Lots of locals come to Epcot for the food, or the MK for special days. And we do buy stuff. Stuff for our friends, special pins, exclusive merch, etc. And we ride rides. Lots of rides! We go for the rides. And we go to hard ticket events like the Christmas party and Halloween. Why do you think there are FL local discounts? Disney courts us, they want us to be there, they want us at the hotels, parks and special events. So the new FP+ system is a bit of a mystery to me. Also, I really hated spending my time looking at a cell phone when I could have been paying attention to my family and my DS.

And what is also important is that the locals ARE Disney. We work at Disney, we take our family that may be visiting us to Disney, we are the ones who provide Disney with its support (hospitals, police, roads). When everyone was afraid to fly after 9/11, who kept Disney open? Florida locals. When the economy tanked and tourism budgets were slashed who kept Disney open? Locals. We are not a group to be pawned off, Disney and locals have a very symbiotic relationship.

Yes, us locals go whenever we want to, but we are also the ones who are very heavy FP- users. We try and make the most of our time at the parks, and FP- was a big part of that. So please do not count out a very large and important part of Disney's revenue.

 

[BuckeyeBama]

At some point, this theoretical "baseline" changes. For many, I'd guess that you can chuck a baseline several years old and set a new one as the standard. Unless of course, doing so doesn't buttress a case one is trying to make.

Otherwise, we should all be comparing our current lifestyle most directly to Marconi and Model Ts. (Or earlier, take your pick.)

I think that this holds true for the Disney veteran - our baseline involves the use of fast passes. But remember that many (maybe most ???) parks do not have fast passes - certainly not for free. So for new guests, the baseline truly is "standby only".

 

[momof2n2]

And what is also important is that the locals ARE Disney. We work at Disney, we take our family that may be visiting us to Disney, we are the ones who provide Disney with its support (hospitals, police, roads). When everyone was afraid to fly after 9/11, who kept Disney open? Florida locals. When the economy tanked and tourism budgets were slashed who kept Disney open? Locals. We are not a group to be pawned off, Disney and locals have a very symbiotic relationship. Yes, us locals go whenever we want to, but we are also the ones who are very heavy FP- users. We try and make the most of our time at the parks, and FP- was a big part of that. So please do not count out a very large and important part of Disney's revenue.

Thanks for this reminder.
I hadn't thought of THIS. But I bet Disney has.

 

[roomthreeseventeen]

Just wanted to whisk in here, and say thank you to everyone for the nice discussion. Everyone is making great points, and I mainly was posing the question of how long is Disney going to continue to invest in an over budget people tracking system when it could have invested in revamping of old rides, infrastructure improvements, light rail systems (instead of more pollution causing buses.), creating better food, and redecorating/revamping hotels.

One thing: I am a local. I am also a Passholder. When I got to Disney, I eat at their sit-down restaurants as well as the FF ones. My DS celebrates his birthday at Crystal Palace, and we have eaten at Le Cellier, the French Bistro, Biergarden, Boma, Tony's, Cinderella's, Morroco, Mexico, and many other sit-downs. To say locals only come in for a day, eat at the FF places and FF on the way home is a little offensive. Lots of locals come to Epcot for the food, or the MK for special days. And we do buy stuff. Stuff for our friends, special pins, exclusive merch, etc. And we ride rides. Lots of rides! We go for the rides. And we go to hard ticket events like the Christmas party and Halloween. Why do you think there are FL local discounts? Disney courts us, they want us to be there, they want us at the hotels, parks and special events. So the new FP+ system is a bit of a mystery to me. Also, I really hated spending my time looking at a cell phone when I could have been paying attention to my family and my DS.

And what is also important is that the locals ARE Disney. We work at Disney, we take our family that may be visiting us to Disney, we are the ones who provide Disney with its support (hospitals, police, roads). When everyone was afraid to fly after 9/11, who kept Disney open? Florida locals. When the economy tanked and tourism budgets were slashed who kept Disney open? Locals. We are not a group to be pawned off, Disney and locals have a very symbiotic relationship.

Yes, us locals go whenever we want to, but we are also the ones who are very heavy FP- users. We try and make the most of our time at the parks, and FP- was a big part of that. So please do not count out a very large and important part of Disney's revenue.

I think you are vastly overestimating how much Disney cares about locals.

 

[mesaboy2]

I think that this holds true for the Disney veteran - our baseline involves the use of fast passes.

1. But remember that many (maybe most ???) parks do not have fast passes - certainly not for free.

2. So for new guests, the baseline truly is "standby only".

1. Actually, I think most parks have it monetized in some form or another.

2. I agree that new guests unfamiliar with legacy FP will believe this to be an improvement. And I maintain that guests who used legacy FP minimally also see this as an improvement. Doesn't mean I have to like it. If that makes me "spoiled" (dare I say "entitled") by legacy FP in some circles, so be it.

 

[mom2rtk]

I think you are vastly overestimating how much Disney cares about locals.

I agree. It's not like we're talking about DLR here.

 

[BuckeyeBama]

I agree that new guests unfamiliar with legacy FP will believe this to be an improvement. And I maintain that guests who used legacy FP minimally also see this as an improvement. Doesn't mean I have to like it. If that makes me "spoiled" in some circles, so be it.

They will not "believe" it to be an improvement - it will be an improvement. 3 free fast passes which can be reserved in advance is much better than no fast passes, or having to pay for fast passes for most people. That is their baseline.

 

[DividedSky]

They will not "believe" it to be an improvement - it will be an improvement. 3 free fast passes which can be reserved in advance is much better than no fast passes, or having to pay for fast passes for most people. That is their baseline.

yep. As someone familiar and having used the old system, I see this as an improvement as well.

 

[mesaboy2]

They will not "believe" it to be an improvement - it will be an improvement. 3 free fast passes which can be reserved in advance is much better than no fast passes, or having to pay for fast passes for most people. That is their baseline.

From their perspective, you are correct. For anyone who's been to WDW since 1999, well...that's why there's debate, isn't there?

 

[surferdave]

They will not "believe" it to be an improvement - it will be an improvement. 3 free fast passes which can be reserved in advance is much better than no fast passes, or having to pay for fast passes for most people. That is their baseline.

Since FP- was available to them then it is a perceived improvement, Disney is just selling the new system harder. I told plenty of people in the parks that it was available for anybody to use, and they would just eye me suspiciously and get in line (and continue to murmur that it was "unfair"). Disney didn't really care if guests used FP-, but they are pushing FP+ as hard as Kroger pushes their customer card because they want the data.

 

[famy27]

1. Actually, I think most parks have it monetized in some form or another.

2. I agree that new guests unfamiliar with legacy FP will believe this to be an improvement. And I maintain that guests who used legacy FP minimally also see this as an improvement. Doesn't mean I have to like it. If that makes me "spoiled" (dare I say "entitled") by legacy FP in some circles, so be it.

I don't know about Point 2. I imagine that even minimal users (or brand new ones) of FP will look at the lines in EP for Soarin' and TT and want to know why they can't use 2 of their 3 FPs for both. Same with HS. Especially if they've been to MK first and have been able to pick any three rides. Even if they've booked something else in advance, I imagine that CMs will get questions from people wanting to cancel their Captain EO and change it for TT and wanting to know why they can't.

I've talked to a few people IRL who were fairly infrequent FP users, and they've all had issues with the tiers.

From a pure number of headliners standpoint there will be very few people who will come out ahead under FP+ in the tiered parks.

 

[BuckeyeBama]

...Disney didn't really care if guests used FP-, but they are pushing FP+ as hard as Kroger pushes their customer card because they want the data.

Winner! FP+ drives people to MDE/MDX. And that is just in phase one.

 

[mom2rtk]

Winner! FP+ drives people to MDE/MDX. And that is just in phase one.

FP+ is the gateway drug.

 

[PlutoTheDog89]

WDW just announced yesterday that the first quarter sent an all time attendance record for WDW. I don't think MB or FP+ is going anywhere.

Hey - it was actually Q4 (Oct. Nov. Dec.) and was across the entire Disney Company.

Honestly, I'm not surprised and don't feel that this has anything to do with the popularity of MagicBands...

They saw an increase in revenue in the parks from MNSSHP, Mickey's Christmas Party, the holidays

And in media, they saw the unexpected success of Frozen

On the MB side, they did cite that MyMagic+ allows them to handle more than 3,000 additional guests per day

 

[TeamJones22]

I think you can sum up the answer to this whole thread pretty easily after listening to/reading the Q&A from the earnings call. Its already been mentioned.

Firstly, it was alluded to that FP+ is an income generator not just through getting people into shops/restaurants spending money but also in return business. At the moment, they see FP+ leading to an increase in return consumers. If they see that, as mentioned, what incentive is there to change?

Secondly it is very early days, as mentioned by Bob Iger "In a public sense, fact, we are actually just learning more about how its working and what impact it is having on our business today". Its still very, very early days. $1 billion plus is a huge investment for something like this and it needs to be in operation for a while before they can truly understand the impact its having.

Now is the time to give feedback. But it must be constructive feedback, otherwise as others have alluded to Disney may just see it as people resisting to change. At the moment Disney, at least publicly, see the change in guests behaviour as "all very good" (Bob Iger); rather than people just saying they hate it they should lobby, perhaps through some sort of organised fan group, for certain changes to be made (for example five passes per day).

Anyone who honestly believes that there is a 1% chance that the future isnt MDE, MyMagic+ and FP+ is kidding themselves; that wont be changed. What still can be changed is its form and delivery method. But people stamping their feet, moaning about how poor it is without offering cohesive alternatives and then returning to Disney anyway are achieving nothing.

Please read the Q&A from the earnings call if you havent already. Whether you like it or not, the future of WDW is Fastpass+.

 

[roomthreeseventeen]

Hey - it was actually Q4 (Oct. Nov. Dec.) and was across the entire Disney Company.

Again, no. The end of the calendar year is Q1.

 

[TDC Nala]

Disney's not going to admit it's a fail because they dont' consider it one - it's doing exactly what Disney intended for it to do.

 

[Pixie Princess]

I don't intend this to be snarky or sarcastic in any way, so please don't take it that way. This is a sincere question that so far, has largely eluded an answer here. Here goes: Insofar as this relates to FP+, does "It worked perfectly for us" mean that you found it to be a tremendous improvement over the old system, or simply that you have no complaints about it? There have been many, many posts such as yours where people are stating that "it worked for them", and there is no basis to question that conclusion at all. But what seems to be missing is the taking of the next step. Did you find that getting 3 FP+ per day at one park only with tiering and no repeats is better than the old system, just as good, or not as good, but perfectly acceptable? I think that it is very clear how the people who do not like FP+ come out in all of this. But there seems to be a lack of clarity coming from the other side. Lots of "we liked it" and "it worked for us" posts, which is fine. But it isn't necessarily the case that those responses are coming from people who view this as an improvement as opposed to merely a change that they can adjust to. Hope that made sense.

p.s. This question actually goes out to anyone who falls into the "we liked it" or "it worked for us" camp, and not just PrincessJo, so anyone is free to comment. (Obviously.)

For a number of reasons, I've pretty much quit reading these threads. However, for some reason I clicked on this one, and lo and behold I run across this interesting post! Great question, and for me, I can say it a combination of all the things you mentioned.

There are aspects of FP+ that are a definite improvement. Traveling with a now teen, it is now far less pleasant to get her up and going in the morning to snag that ever elusive TSM FP than it was just a couple of years ago (she used to be a morning person). Even if trying to get to TSM isn't a concern, said child would be happy to sleep until noon, and FP+ allows me to let her sleep in without worrying about what the FP situations will be when we arrive at the park.

The parade and fireworks viewing reservations are welcome addition to the FP system. Not something I imagine I will use every trip, but it sure was nice having a place I didn't have to guard for an hour before the start of the show.

The rescheduling flexibility is also a plus to the old system. On our last trip we were meeting friends for a TS meal. I wasn't the one who made the ADR, and I had recorded the wrong time for the ADR on my calendar. Naturally I made our FP reservations based on my bad information. The day rolls around and my friend says something to me about needing to head over to the restaurant to make the ADR, and there I was holding FPs that now conflicted with the ADR. I was easily able to reschedule the FPs. Under the old system, I would have been giving the FPs away, and hoping when we returned to the park that the FP return times would work with the rest of our day. Admittedly, for some rides this is more of an issue than others.

As far as the number of FP's and tiering, I guess that would fall in the "just as good" category because they didn't affect our touring at all. I can count on one hand the number of times I used more than three FPs at any park. We have always ridden rides multiple times without waiting in long lines, and did so without pulling more than one FP for the same ride. The tiering didn't matter. We usually don't pull a FP to ride TT. We generally go stand-by or single rider depending on the wait, and at DHS my old lady body has decided that it is no longer up for rides like RnRC. My DD likes it, and usually just rides single rider if she chooses to ride it at all.

Now the only one park per day thing is definitely in the "not as good, but can roll with it" camp. Personally I think they'll end up changing this if you've bought the PH option. If they don't, I think I'd be less inclined to spend money on the PH option. I can make it work, but it is a definite minus over old FP.

I also really enjoyed the convenience of the MBs, and I won't lie, the whole reason I decided to give the whole FP+ thing a shot was so I could get a MB and bling it out. Yeah, they saw me coming a mile away with all those add ons for the bands.

 

[Sammie]

Disney's not going to admit it's a fail because they dont' consider it one - it's doing exactly what Disney intended for it to do.

Exactly