Can Disney admit that FP+ and MDE are a fail?

[JimmyV]

I bumped it so that these threads would finally end. It's not going away. It will be adjusted, but it's reality time for some people...

What, exactly, about this news is in any way related to the positives/negatives of FP+? How could this news cause the debate to stop? What "adjustment" is being implemented through the unremarkable and predictable removal of Legacy FP machines? Just not getting your point. Sorry. If your point is that people are hoping that Legacy FP will be reinstituted, rest assured that no one thinks that.

 

[Pooksie]

What, exactly, about this news is in any way related to the positives/negatives of FP+? How could this news cause the debate to stop? What "adjustment" is being implemented through the unremarkable and predictable removal of Legacy FP machines? Just not getting your point. Sorry. If your point is that people are hoping that Legacy FP will be reinstituted, rest assured that no one thinks that.

Sorry but I thought that I was very clear.

I said that I believed that there will be adjustments to the system, and I never said that there shouldn't be discussion of FP+. I encourage it as it will hopefully provide positive change.

And there have indeed been may posts over the past few months calling for the reinstatement of FP-, or people posting that they hope that Disney will see that FP+ is a failure and revert back to the old system since the new system is in testing, or saying that if enough people complain, they may junk the new system. It's those people who I refer to in my post.

P.S. - Just read the OP's post which contradicts your last sentence.

 

[wisblue]

I wonder if the day will ever come when more of the parameters of FP+ are in place and the bugs in the MDE app are worked out, that some of the most vocal detractors of FP+ will admit "maybe I overreacted".

I recognize the possibility that things could evolve in a way that would move me from my current position of being somewhere between generally indifferent about FP+ to seeing how it could be a positive for us, like it was on our recent Christmas trip.

 

[rteetz]

Can you see a need for improvement?

there is always room for improvement in anything. This is not a fail yet. It may turn out to be but right now it isn't. Early tests indicated it actually increased guest spending that would mean its a success.

 

[jj1403]

It's like anything. some people love it, some people hate it. Everyone usually hates anything "new" in the beginning.

We can either accept it, and try to maximise its use, or we don't have to go...

I'm hoping that once this "testing' phase is over they will allow for a couple more fast passes. But I'm really going to reserve my opinion until I try it out in March. When it's busy.EEK

 

[2Tiggies]

Removal of legacy FP machines has no significance to me. The old machines are not necessary to reinstate the old system. It can be launched quite easily from the new MDE platform using the 'tap to pay/tap to access' principle.

I am not taking the removal of the old legacy machines as any suggestion that the system as we knew it will never return in some, possibly modified, form.

 

[momof2n2]

I wonder if the day will ever come when more of the parameters of FP+ are in place and the bugs in the MDE app are worked out, that some of the most vocal detractors of FP+ will admit "maybe I overreacted".

I recognize the possibility that things could evolve in a way that would move me from my current position of being somewhere between generally indifferent about FP+ to seeing how it could be a positive for us, like it was on our recent Christmas trip.

I respect that you've continually maintained your position in such a thoughtful, civil way. But I know I'm not overreacting. At this point they'd have to change it so we can get MANY more than three & allow the same ride multiple times. I hold out no hope.

 

[saskdw]

Can you see a need for improvement?

Are you asking me if I think the system we used in December could be improved?

I'm pretty confident it will be tweaked. I would be surprised if they didn't do something to accommodate the park hopping tickets. I would be surprised if at some point they don't use the FP+ system to fill their rooms. Whether staying onsite gets you more FP's then offsite or if the level of resort gets you more. Can't say for sure what angle they will play, but IMO it could be a great tool for them to fill rooms.

I reserve final judgement until I see what I believe is the final product, but the new system did add to the enjoyment of our vacation this past December. Which was our 5th Orlando December trip in the last 6 years. We come all the way from western Canada which costs a lot of money so WDW obviously needs to keep our interest for us to keep coming. And for the record we are not "brainwashed WDW" people either. We enjoy staying onsite at Universal as well. Now that we are used to the Express pass perk at Universal I couldn't go there with out staying onsite.

 

[FireDancer]

I think NextGen will end up a success but think it will take at least 2 and probably closer to 5 years to produce any real ROI. People keep talking about earnings calls this quarter or next providing answers but I think all the investment is expected to take until the end of 2015 to start showing returns at all and probably 2018 - 2020 to really start showing the returns they expect.

It is a long-term investment and I mean actual long term as in 5, 10, 20 years down the road. Not a few quarters down the road. I wouldn't make any real judgement about the entire system before that time. I think more companies need to make long term plays and not bow to the pressure of immediate returns.

 

[rteetz]

OK, the wording of the post is a little weird, so if anyone has a better wording, let me know and I will change it. Is there a possibility that Disney will just give up at one point and say that MDE and FP+ are an epic fail? For example, Coke gave up on New Coke, even after pouring $$ into it. McDonalds has given up on many new products even after massive testing and promos. Do you think Disney will just man up and say that guests are plain unhappy and angry about this system? That commandos, one-timers, off-sites, APs, and locals are all pretty upset? (OK, some loved it, but then again, some people loved New Coke.) That its sucking $$ from other needed projects? Will Disney backtrack on FP+ and MDE, or will they keep steamrolling the product and telling us that we must love MDE. It's so high-tech and how Walt always wanted to be innovative; that he would love this idea.

where do you get this information that most people are upset with the system? The people on the disboards make up a very small amount of who is in WDW. Disney will never admit it's a fail and so far just because some people are upset with it doesn't mean it is. Disney has not seen lower attendance, and they have not seen lower guest spending or lower on site booking. Disney is seeing average or above average of all of those. Early tests indicated that magic bands increased spending. Yes their is room for improvement and there is with any new system. A food product is much different than something that is supposed to make your vacation simpler. Most one-timers don't find out about the new system until they are there anyways. Disney is also building avatar, Disney Shanghai, and other projects around the world. If your inferring that it's sucking money out of other WDW projects well really if you look at it there is no need for a lot of new things. Disney also doesn't do a lot of expansion or big projects at once in one spot. Disney springs is also a main priority. They are too far into the roll out to pull back and go back to old ways. All Disney resorts give out magic bands as a default, all legacy FP machines are closed and don't look to be reopening. Like it or not this is what Disney is doing and they aren't going to change until people just don't show up and spend money anymore which there are no indications of that.

 

[Laketravis]

No project of this size would ever be publicly characterized as a "fail" by any corporation. Especially Disney.

Components deemed not meeting objectives will be modified or removed; over the years the entire project may morph into something totally unrecognizable from it's original rollout.

It is whatever required to meet the original ROI you can count on happening.

I encourage everyone to listen in to the Disney webcast taking place in about an hour. Good news or bad, it will be the most reliable source of information.

 

[rteetz]

I loved New Coke. Not willing to give FP+ a try. I wish they'd use the technology to have the bands work like old FP. No pre-booking. Just walk to the ride, look at the time, tap if you want the FP. Sure, eliminate paper, use your new technology, but work it the old way. But I'm not holding my breath.

sorry that's not going to happen

 

[ktlm]

I can think of over a billion reasons why that will never happen.


I think the only reason that will ever happen is if they can't fix all the major glitches with MDE and MB. I do think they will be able to get a lot of the IT problems worked out. If not, they may not have a choice at some point-because at least when we were there with MDE hardly working in the parks; the park wireless being unable to handle the load, MBs glitching right and left, huge guest services lines, and lots of stressed out looking CMS and guests, I don't think they can keep it that way. I don't see that happening though. They have an IT nightmare and they are probably sinking a ton more money in it- but I think they will ultimately resolve most of the IT issues. Maybe I am overly optomistic there though.


I do think they will continue tweaking and changing FP+ as the complaints continue rolling in. Honestly, I would like to see FP+ limited to 1 advance, and then once you get into the park you can add 1 additional one with your smart phone or at a kiosk, and then the rest of the day it works like FP- where after a set amount of time, you can get another for the rest of the day. Of course- that would be contingent on them actually fixing the wifi and MDE where you can actually get them to work in the parks!


(As for those who think only the minority dislike it- that was not our experience on our visit. We saw consistently large Guest Services Lines and concierge lines with complaining people; stressed out CMs (some so stressed out they actually admitted some opinions about it to guests which they clearly aren't supposed to be doing right now); irritated people in line to use the MB readers; and where there used to be friendly chatter and conversations on the buses, in lines, and waiting for shows, it was now almost always someone talking and complaining about their MB/MDE/FP+ nightmare. It was really a different feeling trip for us. Also, just because people weren't complaining, didn't mean they liked it. We hated MDE and were not fans of FP+ other than for the first one of the day (to our surprise we liked the MBs themselves)- but we weren't complaining or voicing our opinions to any CMs on the trip, nor did we initiate the conversations with others about it. We may have participated in some discussions in buses, lines, or during waits with other guests, or said something to someone who we observed having trouble with it-but it was always someone else or some problem they were having that prompted it. I would say that the majority of people who like it are the first timers (if they don't experience major glitches) because they do not know any better. My guess would be of the people who make trips annually, or even every couple of years, the majority don't like MDE/FP+ in its current form.)

 

[AmyB2006]

No, because it is not a failure.

Agreed. Just because a few vocal people on here and on FB dislike it doesn't mean it's a failure. Good grief it hasn't even been fully released yet!

I think more people like it than dislike it honestly. You see the negative feedback more because people are always more vocal about things when they don't like them. Of course on Disney fan sites you are going to have your "commandos" that are not going to like it.

But the general Disney goer isn't going to be as unhappy.

 

[Laketravis]

I think NextGen will end up a success but think it will take at least 2 and probably closer to 5 years to produce any real ROI. People keep talking about earnings calls this quarter or next providing answers but I think all the investment is expected to take until the end of 2015 to start showing returns at all and probably 2018 - 2020 to really start showing the returns they expect.

It is a long-term investment and I mean actual long term as in 5, 10, 20 years down the road. Not a few quarters down the road. I wouldn't make any real judgement about the entire system before that time. I think more companies need to make long term plays and not bow to the pressure of immediate returns.

Rare is a company (or stockholders in that company) that spends such a substantial sum and then finds it acceptable to wait six years for expected returns.

The current period is when projected NexGen returns were supposed to materialize. Thus the accelerated pace of implementation over the last 90 days.

 

[Pooksie]

Removal of legacy FP machines has no significance to me. The old machines are not necessary to reinstate the old system. It can be launched quite easily from the new MDE platform using the 'tap to pay/tap to access' principle.

I am not taking the removal of the old legacy machines as any suggestion that the system as we knew it will never return in some, possibly modified, form.

I don't agree that Disney will return to the same system in some modified form, but I respect your opinion. I do believe something similar, the Disney will modify the new system to be more like the old system by offering additional FP+ reservations by tier for a fee. The difference between the old system and the new system in theory, forgetting about the machines, is the limit to the number of FP+ with the new system compared to the unlimited FP- that existed in the old system. By offering additional FP+ reservations by tier for a fee, Disney would be modifying the new system to be more like the old. You want as many FP+ as you used to get with FP-, you can get them for a small fee. It's the melding of the old and the new, all wrapped up in a new digital format that allows Disney to monetize the FP system and allows guests to cater their vacations to the specifications that they want concerning attractions. We're not that far apart, it's that we disagree on how we will get there. Time will tell..

 

[Laketravis]

Agreed. Just because a few vocal people on here and on FB dislike it doesn't mean it's a failure. Good grief it hasn't even been fully released yet!

I think more people like it than dislike it honestly. You see the negative feedback more because people are always more vocal about things when they don't like them. Of course on Disney fan sites you are going to have your "commandos" that are not going to like it.

But the general Disney goer isn't going to be as unhappy.

If that's true then I guess there is no reason for Disney to change anything about FP+ and MDE.

 

[saskdw]

I can think of over a billion reasons why that will never happen.


I think the only reason that will ever happen is if they can't fix all the major glitches with MDE and MB. I do think they will be able to get a lot of the IT problems worked out. If not, they may not have a choice at some point-because at least when we were there with MDE hardly working in the parks; the park wireless being unable to handle the load, MBs glitching right and left, huge guest services lines, and lots of stressed out looking CMS and guests, I don't think they can keep it that way. I don't see that happening though. They have an IT nightmare and they are probably sinking a ton more money in it- but I think they will ultimately resolve most of the IT issues. Maybe I am overly optomistic there though.


I do think they will continue tweaking and changing FP+ as the complaints continue rolling in. Honestly, I would like to see FP+ limited to 1 advance, and then once you get into the park you can add 1 additional one with your smart phone or at a kiosk, and then the rest of the day it works like FP- where after a set amount of time, you can get another for the rest of the day. Of course- that would be contingent on them actually fixing the wifi and MDE where you can actually get them to work in the parks!


(As for those who think only the minority dislike it- that was not our experience on our visit. We saw consistently large Guest Services Lines and concierge lines with complaining people; stressed out CMs (some so stressed out they actually admitted some opinions about it to guests which they clearly aren't supposed to be doing right now); irritated people in line to use the MB readers; and where there used to be friendly chatter and conversations on the buses, in lines, and waiting for shows, it was now almost always someone talking and complaining about their MB/MDE/FP+ nightmare. It was really a different feeling trip for us. Also, just because people weren't complaining, didn't mean they liked it. We hated MDE and were not fans of FP+ other than for the first one of the day (to our surprise we liked the MBs themselves)- but we weren't complaining or voicing our opinions to any CMs on the trip, nor did we initiate the conversations with others about it. We may have participated in some discussions in buses, lines, or during waits with other guests, or said something to someone who we observed having trouble with it-but it was always someone else or some problem they were having that prompted it. I would say that the majority of people who like it are the first timers (if they don't experience major glitches) because they do not know any better. My guess would be of the people who make trips annually, or even every couple of years, the majority don't like MDE/FP+ in its current form.)

I didn't witness any more complaining people then previous trips.

Regardless the complaining you witnessed would have been more about having trouble with their Magic Bands not the premise of the system itself. We had a couple small glitches, but the CM's we encountered dealt with the issue so quickly and pleasantly it wasn't an inconvienence at all. I was genuinely impressed with the CM service in this regard.

 

[wisblue]

Here is a story from CNBC about what analysts are looking for in Disney's earnings announcement, which should be coming any minute:

http://www.cnbc.com/id/101389421

It helps to keep in mind that the theme parks are just one piece of the whole Disney company, and I wouldn't expect analysts to be focusing too specifically on how the MM+ rollout is going. We'll see.

Maybe there is a Diser analyst who can ask when the number of FPs will be increased and when we can get FPs in more than one park per day.

 

[wisblue]

If that's true then I guess there is no reason for Disney to change anything about FP+ and MDE.

They just announced that they are making changes to MDE, and I have no doubt that changes to some of the specific parameters of FP+ have always been contemplated. I just don't expect those changes while all of the operational transition is going on.