Can Disney admit that FP+ and MDE are a fail?

[AmyB2006]

If that's true then I guess there is no reason for Disney to change anything about FP+ and MDE.

I don't think that's what I was saying. But thanks for the sarcastic response.

I wouldn't deem it as an epic failure just yet though.

 

[crostorfer]

The Q1 Earnings Report was released a couple hours ago, followed by a conference call to discuss the report. From what I understand, every question about MM+ was successfully dodged or ignored, specifically the questions about how much more money they need to sink into it to get it to where they need to be.

 

[Pooksie]

The Q1 Earnings Report was released a couple hours ago, followed by a conference call to discuss the report. From what I understand, every question about MM+ was successfully dodged or ignored, specifically the questions about how much more money they need to sink into it to get it to where they need to be.

If you have any real interest you can go to the webcast site right now and listen to a replay of the call. It lasts an hour and will give you first hand knowledge. I only heard two questions concerning FP+ and both were responded to completely. Nothing was dodged or ignored. There is a thread about the conference call already, and I posted my notes in there. I missed the first 20 minutes or so, and I'm listening to the call replay now as I type this.

Here are my notes taken starting at 5:25 and the comments are by Bob Iger....

He stated that MM+ has been a "real success".

He stated that MM+ allowed them to accommodate more than 3 thousand more guests per day than normal in the MK during the busiest holiday season.(Christmas)

He spoke of FP+ specifically and stated that FP+ has had a higher customer usage than FP- by a wide margin.

He listed the benefits of MM+ as:

1. Accommodate more people in the parks
2. Provide a better guest experience

He stated that they are not even close to being able to quantify the financial results of MM+ as it is still being rolled out. But that the additional capacity in the parks is a sign of success.

 

[Laketravis]

I don't think that's what I was saying. But thanks for the sarcastic response.

I wouldn't deem it as an epic failure just yet though.

I wasn't being sarcastic at all. I was simply following your logic to the next conclusion; if pretty much everyone is happy with FP+ as it is, there wasn't much reason for Disney to make changes to the components that the "tiny" number of people might have been complaining about.

 

[Joe Dirt 1972]

New Coke was around for more than a decade and essentially accomplished its goal -- Pepsi had been creeping up on Coke for years; once Coke put Classic Coke back on the shelves, between Classic and New Cokes they reclaimed some of the ground Pepsi had taken and Pepsi hasn't gotten as close to first since. Coke did not "give up on" New Coke, and they did get their money's worth out of it.

I don't think there's any evidence that MDE and FP+ are an epic fail. And I don't think FP+ will be an epic fail, because at any time, Disney can reconfigure FP+ to work the way legacy FP worked. If they end up doing that, whether there's an announcement or not, it'll be pretty clear that FP+ as it is right now, at any rate, was indeed a failure. But it won't be an epic fail because Disney can change it so easily.

If it really is an epic fail, Disney might admit it as part of an ad campaign to draw people back into the parks -- "you were right, so sorry, we're going back to what Disney should be" -- but, personally, I don't see that happening. Coke did it because they were thrilled with the revival of interest in Coke Classic; the people who fought for the return of Coke Classic gave the company a huge boost and kicked sales up. I don't see Disney having quite the same attitude toward the people who hate FP+, even if the legacy FP lovers turn out to be a majority.

It is a fail read this about Coke

Despite New Coke's acceptance with a large number of Coca-Cola drinkers, a vocal minority of them resented the change in formula and were not shy about making that known — just as had happened in the focus groups. Many of these drinkers were Southerners, some of whom considered the drink a fundamental part of regional identity. They viewed the company's decision to change the formula through the prism of the Civil War, as another surrender to the "Yankees".[24]

Company headquarters in Atlanta started receiving letters expressing anger or deep disappointment. Over 400,000 calls and letters were received by the company,[20] including one letter, delivered to Goizueta, that was addressed to "Chief Dodo, The Coca-Cola Company". Another letter asked for his autograph, as the signature of "one of the dumbest executives in American business history" would likely become valuable in the future. The company hotline, 1-800-GET-COKE, received 1,500 calls a day compared to 400 before the change.[14] Coke hired a psychiatrist to listen in on calls and told executives some people sounded as if they were discussing the death of a family member.[25]

They were, nonetheless, joined by some voices from outside the region. Chicago Tribune columnist Bob Greene wrote some widely reprinted pieces ridiculing the new flavor and damning Coke's executives for having changed it. Talk show hosts and comedians mocked the switch. Ads for New Coke were booed heavily when they appeared on the scoreboard at the Houston Astrodome.[21] Even Fidel Castro, a longtime Coke drinker, contributed to the backlash, calling New Coke a sign of American capitalist decadence.[26] Goizueta's own father expressed similar misgivings to his son, who later recalled that it was the only time the older man had agreed with Castro, whose rule he had fled Cuba to avoid.[27]

Pepsi took advantage of the situation, running ads in which a first-time Pepsi drinker exclaimed "Now I know why Coke did it!"[28] Pepsi gained few long-term converts over Coke's switch, despite a 14% sales increase over the same month the previous year, the largest sales growth in the company's history.[22] The most alienated customers refused to buy New Coke rather than switch to Pepsi,[29] or purchased large amounts of remaining old Coke, including one Texan who spent $1,000 on his hoard of the old formula.[14] Coca-Cola's director of corporate communications, Carlton Curtis, realized over time that they were more upset about the withdrawal of the old formula than the taste of the new one.[30]

Gay Mullins, a Seattle retiree looking to start a public relations firm with $120,000 of borrowed money, formed the organization Old Cola Drinkers of America on May 28 to lobby Coca-Cola to either reintroduce the old formula or sell it to someone else. His organization eventually received over 60,000 phone calls. He also filed a class action lawsuit against the company (which was quickly dismissed by a judge who said he preferred the taste of Pepsi[31]), while nevertheless expressing interest in landing The Coca-Cola Company as a client of his new firm should it reintroduce the old formula.[32] In two informal blind taste tests, Mullins either failed to distinguish New Coke from old or expressed a preference for New Coke.[33]

Still, despite ongoing resistance in the South, New Coke continued to do well in the rest of the country.[24] But executives were uncertain of how international markets would react. Zyman heard doubts and skepticism from his relatives in Mexico, where New Coke was slated to be introduced later that summer, when he went there on vacation.

Goizueta publicly voiced a complaint many company executives had been making in private as they shared letters the company had received thanking them for the change in formula, that bashing it had become "chic" and that, as had happened in the focus groups, peer pressure was keeping those who liked it from speaking up in its favor as vociferously as its critics were against it. Donald Keough, the company's president and chief operating officer, reported overhearing this exchange at his country club outside Atlanta:


"Have you tried it?"
"Yes."
"Did you like it?"
"Yes, but I'll be damned if I'll let Coca-Cola know that."[34]

Company dissatisfaction[edit]

Some Coca-Cola executives had quietly been arguing for a reintroduction of the old formula as early as May.[35] By June, when soft drink sales usually start to rise, the numbers showed the new formula was leveling among consumers. Executives feared social peer pressure was now affecting their bottom line. Some consumers began trying to obtain "old" Coke from overseas, where the new formula had not yet been introduced, as domestic stocks of the old drink were exhausted.[36] Over the course of the month, Coca-Cola's chemists also quietly reduced the acidity level of the new drink, hoping to assuage complaints about the flavor and allow its sweetness to be better perceived (ads pointing to this change were prepared, but never used).[37]

In addition to the noisier public protests, boycotts, and bottles being emptied into the streets of Southern cities, the company had more serious reasons to be concerned. Its bottlers, and not just the ones still suing the company over syrup pricing policies, were expressing concern. While they had given Goizueta a standing ovation when he announced the change at an April 22 bottlers' meeting at Atlanta's Woodruff Arts Center, glad the company had finally taken some initiative in the face of Pepsi's advances,[21] they were less enthusiastic about the taste.[37][38] Most of them saw great difficulty having to promote and sell a drink that had long been marketed as "The Real Thing", constant and unchanging, now that it had been changed.

The 20 bottlers still suing Coca-Cola made much of the change in their legal arguments. Coca-Cola had argued in its defense when the suit was originally filed that the formula's uniqueness and difference from Diet Coke justified different pricing policies from the latter – but if the new formula was simply an HFCS-sweetened Diet Coke, Coca-Cola could not argue the formula was unique. Bottlers, particularly in the South, were also tired of facing personal opprobrium over the change. Many reported that some acquaintances had stopped speaking to them, or had expressed displeasure in other emotionally hurtful ways. On June 23, several of the bottlers took these complaints to Coca-Cola executives in a private meeting.[39] With the company now fearing boycotts not only from its consumers but its bottlers, talks about reintroducing the old formula moved from "if" to "when".

Finally the board of Coca-Cola changed their minds and decided to bring back the old Coke. Company president Donald Keough revealed years later in the 2002 documentary The People vs. Coke that they realized this was the only right thing to do when they visited a small restaurant in Monaco and the owner of the restaurant proudly said that they had "the real thing, it's a real Coke," offering them a bottle of old Coke.[40]

In the late 1990s, Zyman summed up the New Coke experience thus:


Yes, it infuriated the public, cost a ton of money and lasted only 77 days before we reintroduced Coca-Cola Classic. Still, New Coke was a success because it revitalized the brand and reattached the public to Coke


I see the same for MDE and FB+ as New coke, it will change and piss people off but after the changes it will drive people to WDW as it did with Coke

That's why we all need to let Disney know how we feel as the old coke supporters did those many years ago for Coke and made as a result they were heard and changes were made

 

[Laketravis]

"Parks and Resorts revenues for the quarter increased 6% to $3.6 billion and segment operating income increased 16% to $671 million. Operating income growth for the quarter was primarily due to increased guest spending at our domestic parks and resorts, which reflected higher average ticket prices and food, beverage and merchandise spending. The increase in guest spending was partially offset by higher costs for the continued roll out of MyMagic+ and labor and other cost inflation, partially offset by lower pension and postretirement medical costs."

Rasulo provides some real insight as to the magnitude of those higher costs during the investor call. At mark 26:00, he makes the comment that "those new initiatives are a drag on our margins, almost to the tune of 190 basis points".

He is speaking specifically to the previous comments made by Iger at mark 25:30 about the implementation and roll-out of MDE/FP+

He clearly identified the costs of MDE/FP+ for just one quarter, and it represented more than 55% of net operating income (170 basis points reported out as net margin against 190 basis points in increased costs).

 

[BuckeyeBama]

Well, you have your official answer from Disney. It is not a failure, and it is already driving greater park attendance. Their response, not mine.

 

[kbelle8995]

If it is a failure, I don't see Disney admitting anything. It will change due to "guest demand."

I am not sure it's a failure yet. I think there are issues that need to be ironed out.

Add in general guest who do not come on this board and who do not do the research and it might take a long time to consider it a success. And there are more of them than Disney likes to admit.

And I don't think New Coke was success. It's been a long time since I saw it on shelves

 

[TreyQ3]

I wasn't being sarcastic at all. I was simply following your logic to the next conclusion; if pretty much everyone is happy with FP+ as it is, there wasn't much reason for Disney to make changes to the components that the "tiny" number of people might have been complaining about.

I could see a scenario where WDW limited the FP+ to 3 while both FP- and FP+ were both available to reduce the impact to the standby lines. Later WDW would increase the FP+ to a higher number once FP- was removed and/or some other variable was changed. Then would any changes be attributed to customer complaints or a planned rollout? Or maybe a combination of both!

 

[Laketravis]

I could see a scenario where WDW limited the FP+ to 3 while both FP- and FP+ were both available to reduce the impact to the standby lines. Later WDW would increase the FP+ to a higher number once FP- was removed and/or some other variable was changed. Then would any changes be attributed to customer complaints or a planned rollout? Or maybe a combination of both!

Okay, but why wait? Why risk the backlash from any number of park guests, no matter how small? We hear constantly about how CM's acknowledge what they hear most often from guests (3 isn't enough, park hopping, etc).

It's been 3 for over half a year. Printed materials say "up to 3". Same park has been for over half a year. Printed materials say "in one park". Paper FP's have been gone from AK for how long now? I don't see what Disney has to gain, test, or needs to learn in the interim that would take months to go from 3 to 5.

 

[BuckeyeBama]

Okay, but why wait? Why risk the backlash from any number of park guests, no matter how small? We hear constantly about how CM's acknowledge what they hear most often from guests (3 isn't enough, park hopping, etc).

It's been 3 for over half a year. Printed materials say "up to 3". Same park has been for over half a year. Printed materials say "in one park". Paper FP's have been gone from AK for how long now? I don't see what Disney has to gain, test, or needs to learn in the interim that would take months to go from 3 to 5.

I agree - If they can go to 5, they should do so now. There is no way that they have not received the message by now. So, if they do not, we have to assume that they have another reason for not doing so. I can guess what that/those reason(s) might be, but it would just be conjecture.

I am hoping that they just take a long tme to make these kinds of decisions.

 

[AmyB2006]

I wasn't being sarcastic at all. I was simply following your logic to the next conclusion; if pretty much everyone is happy with FP+ as it is, there wasn't much reason for Disney to make changes to the components that the "tiny" number of people might have been complaining about.

But I didn't say pretty much everyone. Obviously there are unhappy people. All I'm saying is I think the majority of Disney visitors are happy with the system. Not that there isn't room for improvement either. There is always room for improvement.

Sorry thought you were being sarcastic. LOL. Cause I didn't say "everyone" is happy and there is no room for improvement. I like the fact that people are complaining because it will hopefully make it better for everyone in the end.

 

[AmyB2006]

I agree - If they can go to 5, they should do so now. There is no way that they have not received the message by now. So, if they do not, we have to assume that they have another reason for not doing so. I can guess what that/those reason(s) might be, but it would just be conjecture. I am hoping that they just take a long tme to make these kinds of decisions.

I think they need to get all off site people on the 3 first with AP holders and everyone pre booking and go from there. I think it's too soon to jump to 5.

 

[TreyQ3]

Okay, but why wait? Why risk the backlash from any number of park guests, no matter how small? We hear constantly about how CM's acknowledge what they hear most often from guests (3 isn't enough, park hopping, etc).

It's been 3 for over half a year. Printed materials say "up to 3". Same park has been for over half a year. Printed materials say "in one park". Paper FP's have been gone from AK for how long now? I don't see what Disney has to gain, test, or needs to learn in the interim that would take months to go from 3 to 5.

Maybe Disney will not increase from 3 at all of the parks due to the impact to the standby lines for parks with limited rides like EP and DHS. I would wait until I understood the ramifications from the new system before making more changes. It is hard making conclusions if there are constant changes. But I really don't know.

The real answer to why is "because Disney says so." It's their game and they make the rules. We can only say that we don't want to play the game. I'm betting the number of dissatisfied guests are relatively small in total. According to their earnings statements, the anecdotal negative experiences/opinions detailed here and facebook do not give a full picture. A tempest in a teapot so to speak.

 

[Laketravis]

I think they need to get all off site people on the 3 first with AP holders and everyone pre booking and go from there. I think it's too soon to jump to 5.

That could be. I would think Disney is pretty good at projecting park attendance for any given day, and they know how many people are projected to be on site on any given day, so it's probably not a huge leap for the bean counters to figure out how many more people will be reserving 3 FP's when they open it up to them, and they know how many FP's they can produce each day for each attraction, and they could pass those projections on to IT and Operations so they could load calculate, etc....etc......

Come to think of it, back when we participated in the early testing in 2012 the limit was 3 then.

 

[dayvewc]

Okay, but why wait? Why risk the backlash from any number of park guests, no matter how small? We hear constantly about how CM's acknowledge what they hear most often from guests (3 isn't enough, park hopping, etc). It's been 3 for over half a year. Printed materials say "up to 3". Same park has been for over half a year. Printed materials say "in one park". Paper FP's have been gone from AK for how long now? I don't see what Disney has to gain, test, or needs to learn in the interim that would take months to go from 3 to 5.

Do we know how many printed materials were printed? Versus how many materials they give out in a day or week? And I can see them keeping it to one park until everything is set and done. Legacy has been gone from AK for 6 weeks now, but from the rest of the parks for about 2 weeks. And based on what others are reporting, it looks like off-site will be able to start pre-booking in the next couple of days. Until they have everyone able to prebook, and have paper removed from all parks, I can easily see them holding off on increasing the numbers and multiple parks. Does this mean that both will be available by summer? Only Disney knows. But that's the earliest I would expect the changes to happen. (Under the assumption that off-site can start pre-booking 60 days out next week, and can start using them in April, that gives them 6-8 weeks to evaluate exactly how the system will work with everyone on it and then open it up for more passes, and then for multiple parks.) Just my $0.02.

 

[TreyQ3]

I think they need to get all off site people on the 3 first with AP holders and everyone pre booking and go from there. I think it's too soon to jump to 5.

I agree. I would almost guarantee that Disney has a very detailed rollout plan. Unless there is something critical broken, I don't foresee Disney making changes until a full rollout is completed. Too many changes makes it difficult to determine the optimal number.

The optimal number may be 3 due to the limited number of rides at EP, DHS and AK. It would be easier to educate new people that the number is always 3 versus it is 5 at MK, 4 at AK and 3 at EP and DHS. Remember KISS!

 

[Laketravis]

Do we know how many printed materials were printed? Versus how many materials they give out in a day or week?

By "print" I meant text in all forms of media - web pages, terms of service, marketing collateral, advertising, usage guides, etc.

 

[larryz]

Is there a possibility that Disney will just give up at one point and say that MDE and FP+ are an epic fail?

Yes, there's a chance, but they won't say it like that, and it surely won't be until they're done "testing." They'll likely say they're moving into another phase of testing, and one or more features will be gone or drastically modified. Not to worry, though, I'm sure they'll give plenty of notice to everyone affected, and no actual vacations will be harmed in the process.

Disclaimer: I'm not pro- or anti-MDE/FP+. I'm waiting until it morphs into final form, whatever that will look like. I am, however, disgusted at the way they rolled this project out, and they'll have to tweak it into something really fantastic to get me over that.

 

[DOOM1001]

Magic bands are a success because not having to whip out your tickets everytime you enter a park is a big plus in my book,the same with using it to enter your room.

The MDE website is a fail because it's just not a very good easy to navigate website,the same with the app,I can't even get to my personal info using the app.

The FP+ system is also a fail,any system that makes you choose FP+ options for rides that don't need them is a failure.Just like those worthless surprise FP's the machines used to shoot out on slow days when any ride that wasn't a headliner was a walk on or a 5 minute wait.The whole tiering thing,the 3 FP+ per day and the inability to book FP+ at multiple parks are also why FP+ is a joke.

If they can make a good website and app and rework FP+ to correct all its issues then maybe the whole MyMagic + system can succeed,right now the only thing I like are the bands.

Also while I'm at the parks I use my phone for other things other than using the MDE website,I don't like having to use it to change FP+ reservations as the MDE website is so difficult I would drain my phones battery doing so.Can people with magic bands use the kiosks to make changes or are those only for those with RFID tickets.I think everybody should be able to use these and there should be kiosks all over the parks,maybe 10-15 kiosks spread throughout as I don't want to make long lines to get FP+,especially since these are not as simple as just putting your ticket in and getting a ticket out,you actually have to think about the timing of your options.I will still stand by my feelings that I would have rather had Disney spend their money on new rides and attractions instead of a more tech advanced reservation system that's worse as it's more limited than the previous one.