Can Disney admit that FP+ and MDE are a fail?

[dayvewc]

By "print" I meant text in all forms of media - web pages, terms of service, marketing collateral, advertising, usage guides, etc.

Which most of which will be super easy to change. All the electronic forms can probably be updated in about 30 seconds. Some of the advertising will take slightly longer for distribution purposes. But I doubt even that would consume more than a week.

I was just trying to point out that having the "3 per day" "one park only" out there is not necessarily meaning that it can't or won't change, and that I'm confident (or at least as confident as I am in any major corporation) it can be changed with minimal issue.

 

[redrosesix]

In the board room and the meeting rooms, heads may roll, people may get "reassigned" and others might leave for "other opportunities in the entertainment industry". But there will never come a day when defeat will be conceded. Instead, there will be "improvements" coupled with new, flashy videos. There will be "enhancements" designed to make your experience "even better". But there will never be surrender unless a new CEO were to come in and pivot away from past programs. But I do not see that happening.

This.

 

[jade1]

I agree. I would almost guarantee that Disney has a very detailed rollout plan. Unless there is something critical broken, I don't foresee Disney making changes until a full rollout is completed. Too many changes makes it difficult to determine the optimal number.

Yea I kinda think the "over 3" might end up as incentives, purchases or headliner expansions.

But this has been suggested on the other thousand threads exactly the same.

 

[PeterPanic]

The New York Times restaurant critic is a "huge minority" also, and if he says that the soup is awful, yet hundreds of other patrons don't seem to be sending the soup back to the kitchen, the chef/owner of said restaurant will be looking into the situation and will consider making changes. Don't kid yourself about the power of a huge minority. Those are the guys who threw tea into Boston Harbor. Some day, when park hopping and a 4th FP are added to FP+, you would do well to thank that huge minority, for without their persistence, corporate Disney would assume that everything is aces.


That may be true for the first half-billion in budgeted costs. But the almost-billion in overage was sucked out of other areas. They didn't just print the money needed to cover the cost overruns. It was "borrowed" from other projects.

I would never kid myself about the power of a few bullies, however, this isn't a government it is a business. You are not ever required to go there or financially support it. They have the freedom to do whatever they please that doesn't hurt business. Actually, they have the right to run it into the ground if that is what they want to do.

It seems that the common thought is that it is only the Guests that have an interest in how it is working. Disney does as well. They have been and will continue to experiment to get the thing tweaked to what they want to accomplish. If 3 FP's are determined to not be achieving what they were trying to achieve, they they will change that. It won't be because a small group of people complained that they didn't get the number of FP's that they wanted. The additional FP's locations are blatantly designed to take the FP crowds away from just the more popular attractions and get them in line at others. Doing that will speed up the standby lines at the popular ones because the FP lines will be smaller. Due to the fact that many of the traditional FP's machines are now in the old machinery graveyard, tells me that there is no turning back. They might adjust, but, it won't be from threats, it will be for focus on what they are trying to achieve. Almost none of us really know what that is, Disney is not a big talker about motivation on their part.

Another point is that I don't remember any numbers being released officially concerning how much they budgeted, or how much they have spent. The figures of 1.5 Billion and 2 billion are being pulled out of thin air and they seem to escalate depending on how much impact the informer wants to make. How many of us on these boards are able to see the books and know what is being spent and on what.

Correct. And if Disney makes changes based on user feedback, that means there was a significant amount of user feedback.

My comment was for those who indicate that the amount of feedback is relatively small when put in perspective. I'm offering that if that is the case, then Disney would have no reason to increase the number of FP's per day, eliminate tiers, permit use of FP's in multiple parks on the same day or allow multiple FP's for the same attraction.

Because, as you pointed out, if there aren't enough people complaining about those elements, there is no reason for Disney to change them.

("Devil's Advocate").

Disney committed a lot of money for this project. It is going to take a lot more then a few people complaining to make a dent in their give a damn factor. This isn't a plan with a one year recovery target. This is huge and long range. Most of what they spend will be made up by whatever plan they have and the taxes saved by amortization over 20 years of probable use.

Disney does, to some extent pay attention to feedback, but that isn't the sole bit of information that is used to make these decisions. They only way that feedback will make a massive impression is like, using the Coke theme as if it were the same thing, the majority decides that they will abandon the product and cut deeply into their operating abilities and stockholders wallets. Until the parks empty out and people stop making reservations at the rate that they currently are... Disney will not be swayed into veering from the course, unless they decide that the course is unattainable. Then and only then, Disney will change it. The only power any of us has over them is with our wallets. We cannot make demands with no negative results for Disney. It will just be politely acknowledged and then tossed in the trash can.

 

[Sammie]

OK, the wording of the post is a little weird, so if anyone has a better wording, let me know and I will change it.

Is there a possibility that Disney will just give up at one point and say that MDE and FP+ are an epic fail? For example, Coke gave up on New Coke, even after pouring $$ into it. McDonalds has given up on many new products even after massive testing and promos.

Do you think Disney will just man up and say that guests are plain unhappy and angry about this system? That commandos, one-timers, off-sites, APs, and locals are all pretty upset? (OK, some loved it, but then again, some people loved New Coke.) That its sucking $$ from other needed projects?

Will Disney backtrack on FP+ and MDE, or will they keep steamrolling the product and telling us that we must love MDE. It's so high-tech and how Walt always wanted to be innovative; that he would love this idea.

Nope, because many people do like it.

 

[Sammie]

I wonder if the day will ever come when more of the parameters of FP+ are in place and the bugs in the MDE app are worked out, that some of the most vocal detractors of FP+ will admit "maybe I overreacted".

I recognize the possibility that things could evolve in a way that would move me from my current position of being somewhere between generally indifferent about FP+ to seeing how it could be a positive for us, like it was on our recent Christmas trip.

I don't see that happening because those complaining the most, by their own admission, are used to getting more than 5 Fastpasses in one day, and I don't see that ever happening.

 

[famy27]

I think it is too early to call MDE/FP+ a fail. Certain aspects of it are fantastic and others are terrible (for me) at this moment in time. I hope they can improve some of the issues with the app, removing tiering, etc.

What I do think has been a fail has been the rollout/"testing" process. If any vendor I deal with tried to roll out a new product the way Disney has dealt with MDE/FP+, I would have 1) fallen over laughing at their ineptitude and 2) fired them. The constant changing with no communication is terrible. You get notified if your hotel will have construction, but POP guest received no advance notice from Disney that they would be limited to only three FPs with no possibility of getting more while every other onsite resort got access to FP+ and original FP and offsiters could pull as many paper FPs as the system allows. If that was necessary "testing" to see how the system would respond, POP guests should have received compensation or at least advance warning.

I think one of the biggest issues people have with FP+ right now is the uncertainty. Day to day experiences in the park can vary widely depending on what "flavor" of FP+ you happen to experience. What I saw in October with no tiers, no offsiters on the system, and paper FP still available is drastically different than what a POP guest saw in December or what an offsiter sees today. Instead of putting a notice on MDE in big, bold letters that FP+ will be available in to offsiters in April, we have to guess that that is the plan based on what happens when someone clicks on the symbol of a lock. If I knew what Disney's end game was in all of this and any type of timeline for getting there, I might feel less apprehensive. I feel the same way when my plane or train is delayed. Don't sugarcoat it or hide the length of the delay. Just tell us where we really stand so we can make plans accordingly.

And I don't care for the idea that FP+ is seen as a negative because "people fear change" and will get used to the new system in time. When I went to WDW in 2001, I saw FP for the first time. I'd never heard of it and had done no research on it. But the first time I used it, I was hooked. It totally changed every theme park experience for me from that day forward. Disney was the gold standard and nothing else could measure up. It was amazing. For grins, I went back to internet posts from 1999 to see if I could find any negative feedback on FP, but I didn't find a single negative report. So, change isn't the problem. Change that negatively affects people is.

Finally, I want to address the issue on the call today that more people are using FP+ than paper FP. I think that is largely a function of training and education. If you reactivated paper FPs tomorrow and had hundreds of CMs in parks offering to book your express ride passes as you walked in the gates, I bet you'd see a significant uptick in usage. Also you get MBs mailed to you with instructions on how to select your rides. If Disney had mailed paper FPs with detailed instructions, that would likely have increased usage as well. They have a lot riding on this, so it makes sense that they would pull out all the stops to increase usage, but that doesn't mean that some guests are using it more because it's a superior system. It likely means that more guests are using it because of awareness.

 

[tlady]

OK, the wording of the post is a little weird, so if anyone has a better wording, let me know and I will change it.

Is there a possibility that Disney will just give up at one point and say that MDE and FP+ are an epic fail? For example, Coke gave up on New Coke, even after pouring $$ into it. McDonalds has given up on many new products even after massive testing and promos.

Do you think Disney will just man up and say that guests are plain unhappy and angry about this system? That commandos, one-timers, off-sites, APs, and locals are all pretty upset? (OK, some loved it, but then again, some people loved New Coke.) That its sucking $$ from other needed projects?

Will Disney backtrack on FP+ and MDE, or will they keep steamrolling the product and telling us that we must love MDE. It's so high-tech and how Walt always wanted to be innovative; that he would love this idea.

Never in a million years will Disney admit to any of this. After all, why should they? Disney is never wrong, correct?

It's too bad, really, because their failure to do so means continued frustrations for all of us. For anyone whose WDW trip isn't focused a lot on the rides, this entire FP+ fiasco probably isn't that big of a deal. But for the millions of us whose trips are ride-based, it is a MAJOR fiasco. The limitations on riding one's favorite rides are absurd and not defendable, I don't care how much Kool Aid one is drinking.

But, after spending a billion dollars on this system, there is no way on god's green earth that Disney will ever admit to any major failings with it.

 

[tlady]

I've been wondering along similar lines but not quite as big a question as you are posing.

See I don't think MDE is a fail at all. I think it's something perhaps ahead of its time, but it's cutting edge and will eventually function extremely well.

The FP+ element is the part of MDE that I do believe is a fail. Others will argue with me, and that is fair, since I really have nothing solid to base my statement on, but I believe Disney made a mistake replacing the previously existing and very efficient FP system. There may have been room for improvement on it, but this current system is not it.


As for Disney admitting it as a mistake, that, again in my own opinion, will never happen. If they think they got it wrong and decide to change it, they may do so - but not under admission in any way that their design was a mistake.

Have to agree with you on the separation of the MDE idea itself from the epic fail that is the FP+ portion of it. Not sure I agree, however, that MDE is cutting edge - or at least it's not based on the way Disney has designed and released it. It COULD be cutting edge if they would hire IT people who knew what they were doing. As it now stands, the system has many bugs in it leading to huge frustrations for those of us forced to use it. But, hopefully, these bugs will, one day, be worked out.

What cannot be justified in its present form is the debacle Disney has made of the FP system. There is nothing about it that is an improvement over the old system, IMO. The absurd limitations that it imposes on guests are just not defendable. Why shouldn't people be able to FP their favorite rides more than once a day?? Why shouldn't people be able to get more than 3 FPs for 1 park for 1 day??? Why is everyone forced to jump thru hoops 60 days in advance of their trip, just to make the FP reservations?? There is so much about FP+ that is simply bad, that one cannot express it all in a few sentences.

But Disney will never admit that the new FP system is a major fail. Never.

 

[tlady]

I loved New Coke.
Not willing to give FP+ a try.

I wish they'd use the technology to have the bands work like old FP. No pre-booking. Just walk to the ride, look at the time, tap if you want the FP. Sure, eliminate paper, use your new technology, but work it the old way.

But I'm not holding my breath.

Your suggestion is brilliant in its simplicity. Which is probably why Disney will never adopt it, LOL.

 

[tlady]

Ooooooooh, okay. "The Plan". So if they increase the number of FP's from 3 to say, 5... it's because they "planned" on giving everybody 5 from the start and just thought it would be fun to piss off a lot of paying customers for more than half a year by only giving them 3?

Or could it possibly be because enough people complained that 3 wasn't enough?

LOL. Right on! How anyone can claim knowledge that this is all "part of The Plan" is absurd, unless they have a seat in the Disney board room.

It is ludicrous to believe that Disney purposefully imposed these strict limitations on usage of FP, while all along they "planned" to loosen the limits in the future.

I think that changes to FP will ONLY come about if enough guests complain OR if revenues drop. If neither occurs, Disney has NO INCENTIVE to change anything!

 

[tlady]

Of course FP+ has a higher customer usage than FP-. Everyone is being forced to use it!!!! And how does he define "higher customer usage" anyway? 1) A greater % of park guests using it? Again, of course they are, for the reason stated above. 2) A greater number of people able to ride what they want in each park/each day? That we know is definitely not true.

This is all corporate BS, designed to deflect attention from the fact that "the emperor isn't wearing any clothes."

 

[DividedSky]

Of course FP+ has a higher customer usage than FP-. Everyone is being forced to use it!!!! And how does he define "higher customer usage" anyway? 1) A greater % of park guests using it? Again, of course they are, for the reason stated above. 2) A greater number of people able to ride what they want in each park/each day? That we know is definitely not true.

This is all corporate BS, designed to deflect attention from the fact that "the emperor isn't wearing any clothes."

you are not being forced to use fp+.

the UI is silly, in that if you want to use 1 fp, you are forced to get all three. Maybe that's what you meant?

2) A greater number of people able to ride what they want in each park/each day? That we know is definitely not true.

we don't know that either. Many people didn't use legacy fp at all.

 

[Eldon_Brasche]

Of course FP+ has a higher customer usage than FP-. Everyone is being forced to use it!!!! And how does he define "higher customer usage" anyway? 1) A greater % of park guests using it? Again, of course they are, for the reason stated above. 2) A greater number of people able to ride what they want in each park/each day? That we know is definitely not true.

This is all corporate BS, designed to deflect attention from the fact that "the emperor isn't wearing any clothes."

"Forced to use it", Really?
A little objectivity would go a long way. No one is being forced to use FP+.

 

[DividedSky]

Your suggestion is brilliant in its simplicity. Which is probably why Disney will never adopt it, LOL.

nope, that idea still sucks. having to walk to the ride to tap the app?

that is why that system sucked.

how about using the app, but having it work like fp, in that you can only have one at a time...unless the one is further out then 2 hours.

the whole walking to the ride thing, BOOOOO. that was the facet of the system that technology can and should improve.

 

[redrosesix]

Of course FP+ has a higher customer usage than FP-. Everyone is being forced to use it!!!! And how does he define "higher customer usage" anyway? 1) A greater % of park guests using it? Again, of course they are, for the reason stated above. 2) A greater number of people able to ride what they want in each park/each day? That we know is definitely not true.

This is all corporate BS, designed to deflect attention from the fact that "the emperor isn't wearing any clothes."

"utilized by more guests" so yes, it just means everyone got 3 fp's per day and more than 50 percent used at least one of them (since only 50 percent used fp-). And at a time when you wouldn't need them on most days, and when fp- was still working in most parks.

nope, that idea still sucks. having to walk to the ride to tap the app?

that is why that system sucked.

how about using the app, but having it work like fp, in that you can only have one at a time...unless the one is further out then 2 hours.

the whole walking to the ride thing, BOOOOO. that was the facet of the system that technology can and should improve.

It might be a good idea for people to have to see the ride to add additional fp's. Lots of people are coming back and saying they got to their FP+ returns and if the SB wait was short they would change their FP+ to another ride.

I think it would be good if you didn't have to always run to the ride, but I'd like to be able to add a fp at the ride as well.

 

[Tonka's Skipper]

OK, the wording of the post is a little weird, so if anyone has a better wording, let me know and I will change it.

Is there a possibility that Disney will just give up at one point and say that MDE and FP+ are an epic fail? For example, Coke gave up on New Coke, even after pouring $$ into it. McDonalds has given up on many new products even after massive testing and promos.

Do you think Disney will just man up and say that guests are plain unhappy and angry about this system? That commandos, one-timers, off-sites, APs, and locals are all pretty upset? (OK, some loved it, but then again, some people loved New Coke.) That its sucking $$ from other needed projects?

Will Disney backtrack on FP+ and MDE, or will they keep steamrolling the product and telling us that we must love MDE. It's so high-tech and how Walt always wanted to be innovative; that he would love this idea.

Actually there seems to be ALOT of people happy with it!. Your assumptions that the majority isn't happy is in error and is based on the forums and even that is a limited number.!

AKK

 

[momof2n2]

nope, that idea still sucks. having to walk to the ride to tap the app?

that is why that system sucked.

how about using the app, but having it work like fp, in that you can only have one at a time...unless the one is further out then 2 hours.

the whole walking to the ride thing, BOOOOO. that was the facet of the system that technology can and should improve.

Sending one person to ride A while the rest moseyed on over to ride B worked for a decade

 

[crostorfer]

Actually there seems to be ALOT of people happy with it!. Your assumptions that the majority isn't happy is in error and is based on the forums and even that is a limited number.!

AKK

Or one could base it on the thousands of comments on the WDW Facebook page that are 3:1 negative.

 

[cleophus12]

Do you suppose we will ever know if the inability to use FP+ in two parks/day is effecting the sale of park hoppers and thus the bottom line? I'm not hopping on my next trip and we have hopped on every one of our 25+ visits.