Can a kid be dyslexic and a GOOD reader?

[Magpie]

I've been wondering about this for many years now, but another thread got me to thinking about it again.

My 13yo son has been diagnosed with a Non-Verbal Learning Disability (NVLD). But when I look up the symptoms of NVLD, he doesn't fit most of them at all. If anything some of the weaknesses they list are his greatest strengths (he's a big picture kid, with a lot of common sense).

I've always thought he might be dyslexic, but when I called the local association the woman on the other end of the phone said abruptly, "If he reads above grade level, then he's not dyslexic!" and that was the end of that conversation.

So I wonder... if I hadn't taught him to read when he was three, would he be diagnosed dyslexic now? Based on the list I've read, he has all of the verbal characteristics, and many of the mental and physicals ones. He just happens to be a very good reader, too. (Comprehension-wise, anyway - he does read slower than most other kids.)

It doesn't really matter, I guess, but I'm still curious. He definitely has a learning disability, I'm just not sure that they've slapped the correct label on him.

 

[kirstenb1]

DH was dx'd with dyslexia in his senior yr of HS. He repeated third grade, because he couldn't read. His dad was a career Marine so they moved all the time. DH always felt he was stupid because his reading was very subpar. In twelvth grade, his teacher recommended him for testing, because she was concerned about his reading/writing inabilities.

I guess my answer is no, in his case, he is dyslexic, and not a great reader. I'll say that in college, they gave him many strategies and accomodations. He's an electrical engineer, who can easily function reading emails, etc. But he doesn't pick up a book just to read it. It will always be a challenge.

 

[Magpie]

DH was dx'd with dyslexia in his senior yr of HS. He repeated third grade, because he couldn't read. His dad was a career Marine so they moved all the time. DH always felt he was stupid because his reading was very subpar. In twelvth grade, his teacher recommended him for testing, because she was concerned about his reading/writing inabilities.

I guess my answer is no, in his case, he is dyslexic, and not a great reader. I'll say that in college, they gave him many strategies and accomodations. He's an electrical engineer, who can easily function reading emails, etc. But he doesn't pick up a book just to read it. It will always be a challenge.

I'm glad to hear that about your DH's college being supportive! That's reassuring to hear. My son's starting high school in September, and I'm definitely wondering what I need to do to make sure he gets the supports he needs.

It's a large part of why I'm starting to try to figure out how to describe him.

His 8th grade English teacher recommended he take English as a summer school course after grade 9, because apparently the summer students don't have to read as many books. (He struggled a bit with the one-novel-a-month pace this year.)

 

[Singledad]

The trouble with Dyslexia is that there is no single test for it. They cannot test for it, just rule everything else out. Since he currently appears not to struggle to badly with reading, they look at other things.

Personally, I too am 'too good' of a reader to be labeled Dyslexic. Yet I fit all the signs of it, outside of that reading thing. I also read for enjoyment. Because of this, I have had to say that I have dyslexia traits/tendencies rather than just saying, I have dyslexia. Just because he reads well now, doesn't mean his skills will keep up with his grades. I tested three grades above back in 5th grade, but even in college, I never progressed in the way my classmates did. although in grade school I would read books above grade level, I am still reading that same level as back then.


Also, it would help if you mentioned exactly what signs you are referencing. Because some of them over lap with dysgraphia and dyscalculia.

Further more, who tested him? if you question it, get him tested again by someone else! If you school district did the testing, it is completely within your rights to have him privately tested. also, if you had him privately tested, you can also have him tested through the school as well. They are not one or the other.

 

[clanmcculloch]

He's diagnosed with NVLD. What about the diagnosis does not fit?

My DD10 has definite reading problems. She was evaluated by a COVD trained eye doctor. She has a variety of visual learning problems but the doctor states it is NOT dyslexia based on the most up to date definition. She had problems with letter reversal, visual retention, tracking problems, teaming problems and a couple other issues I can't recall at the moment. At one time, all of these fell under the umbrella of dyslexia which is what my mother was diagnosed with but now it seems that they've separated out a variety of issues and created a much narrower definition for dyslexia, at least according to my DD's eye doctor and our school's Occupational Therapist. She benefitted greatly from Vision Therapy but not all of her issues were treatable and she'll always have reading difficulties. She's actually now being evaluated for NVLD as well as PDD as she does have additional issues that are unrelated to her vision.

If you're not seeing the other issues beyond vision related that are part of NVLD then I would encourage you to find a COVD trained eye doctor to get a very comprehensive vision exam that looks for visual processing issues. Heck, the exam IMO is worthwhile even if he does have the other issues.

 

[Magpie]

Also, it would help if you mentioned exactly what signs you are referencing. Because some of them over lap with dysgraphia and dyscalculia.

Thank you for your response! Here's the list I was looking at: http://www.readingrockets.org/article/227/

My 13yo son (sorry it's so long!):

*Has trouble remembering words and will string together long convoluted, ungrammatical sentences while he's trying to figure out how get to the point.

*He mixes up the sequence of events, when he's telling a story, though he's often clearly aware of this and will get hung up trying to sort them all out verbally.

*Has problems with opposites - over/under, before/after... Substitutes one when he means the other.

*He speaks in a distinctive monotone, which gets much more noticeable when he's under stress. His friends have commented on it.

*He mispronounces words, then pretends he did it on purpose as a joke.

*Interrupts class to ask questions or start discussions that don't have any obvious connection to the subject. It seems to come out of left field. One teacher says she simply raises her index finger at him and he shuts right up.

*He does have many friends, though he doesn't consider them "friends" per se. But he manages them well, and his teachers often comment admiringly on his "leadership" skills. I think he feels safer when he's controlling the people around him.

*Struggles with writing - forgets the beginning of sentences before he gets to the end. His essays inevitably devolve into piles of unrelated words and phrases.

*Can't see his own errors (particularly with those incomprehensible essays).

*His handwriting and spelling are atrocious. He'll have all the right letters in a misspelled word, but they'll be out of order.

*Reads very slowly, but with excellent comprehension. He enjoys reading.

*Seems to "glaze over" in lecture situations. Always misses homework if it's given verbally. Often misses it if it's written on the board.

*(His dad, an engineer, noticed this one) Doesn't seem to be able to tell a two dimensional drawing apart from a three dimensional one. Struggles horribly with art/drafting/diagrams, anything like that.

*Very good, intuitive understanding of math, but poor ability to put work down on paper. He can do amazing things using just mental math, even algebra.

*Very poor gross motor skills - runs slowly and awkwardly and generally misses the ball when he tries to kick it.

Where he's strongest is in critical thinking skills and social skills. He's extremely intelligent (surviving in Gifted classes, despite his academic difficulties!), and hard working. The one thing everyone who meets him says is, "He's a really NICE kid." It's become a family joke that he can't go anywhere new without at least one complete stranger coming up to tell us that.

I had him privately tested by a psychologist at the end of grade four, which is when he got the "NVLD" label. He's not getting any accommodations in school, though he is allowed to do his work on his personal laptop.

I don't know... maybe I should just hand his high school teachers this list next year?

 

[kamik86]

Thank you for your response! Here's the list I was looking at: http://www.readingrockets.org/article/227/

My 13yo son (sorry it's so long!):

*Has trouble remembering words and will string together long convoluted, ungrammatical sentences while he's trying to figure out how get to the point.

*He mixes up the sequence of events, when he's telling a story, though he's often clearly aware of this and will get hung up trying to sort them all out verbally.

*Has problems with opposites - over/under, before/after... Substitutes one when he means the other.

*He speaks in a distinctive monotone, which gets much more noticeable when he's under stress. His friends have commented on it.

*He mispronounces words, then pretends he did it on purpose as a joke.

*Interrupts class to ask questions or start discussions that don't have any obvious connection to the subject. It seems to come out of left field. One teacher says she simply raises her index finger at him and he shuts right up.

*He does have many friends, though he doesn't consider them "friends" per se. But he manages them well, and his teachers often comment admiringly on his "leadership" skills. I think he feels safer when he's controlling the people around him.

*Struggles with writing - forgets the beginning of sentences before he gets to the end. His essays inevitably devolve into piles of unrelated words and phrases.

*Can't see his own errors (particularly with those incomprehensible essays).

*His handwriting and spelling are atrocious. He'll have all the right letters in a misspelled word, but they'll be out of order.

*Reads very slowly, but with excellent comprehension. He enjoys reading.

*Seems to "glaze over" in lecture situations. Always misses homework if it's given verbally. Often misses it if it's written on the board.

*(His dad, an engineer, noticed this one) Doesn't seem to be able to tell a two dimensional drawing apart from a three dimensional one. Struggles horribly with art/drafting/diagrams, anything like that.

*Very good, intuitive understanding of math, but poor ability to put work down on paper. He can do amazing things using just mental math, even algebra.

*Very poor gross motor skills - runs slowly and awkwardly and generally misses the ball when he tries to kick it.

Where he's strongest is in critical thinking skills and social skills. He's extremely intelligent (surviving in Gifted classes, despite his academic difficulties!), and hard working. The one thing everyone who meets him says is, "He's a really NICE kid." It's become a family joke that he can't go anywhere new without at least one complete stranger coming up to tell us that.

I had him privately tested by a psychologist at the end of grade four, which is when he got the "NVLD" label. He's not getting any accommodations in school, though he is allowed to do his work on his personal laptop.

I don't know... maybe I should just hand his high school teachers this list next year?

I think it is possible. I believe my mom is dyslexic but when she was a kid they just didn't test for that sort of thing (she can mess up spelling extremely simple words, and when reading will sometimes see close words instead of the one actually one the page) I think I have an EXTREMELY mild case.

I had been friends with someone whose job it was at schools to recognize the signs of dyslexia and recommend for testing, she also was dyslexic as were her kids. One day she asked if I was because she saw some small signs of it, but it wasn't really affecting me (I still read above grade level, got good grades etc) it affected me most when I got really tired, especially with numbers (so I had to be really careful being a cashier at a coffee shop in college sometimes to read totals off right lol) I definitely think its possible to show signs while still being too good a reader to get a real diagnosis.

 

[Magpie]

He's diagnosed with NVLD. What about the diagnosis does not fit?

My DD10 has definite reading problems. She was evaluated by a COVD trained eye doctor. She has a variety of visual learning problems but the doctor states it is NOT dyslexia based on the most up to date definition. She had problems with letter reversal, visual retention, tracking problems, teaming problems and a couple other issues I can't recall at the moment. At one time, all of these fell under the umbrella of dyslexia which is what my mother was diagnosed with but now it seems that they've separated out a variety of issues and created a much narrower definition for dyslexia, at least according to my DD's eye doctor and our school's Occupational Therapist. She benefitted greatly from Vision Therapy but not all of her issues were treatable and she'll always have reading difficulties. She's actually now being evaluated for NVLD as well as PDD as she does have additional issues that are unrelated to her vision.

If you're not seeing the other issues beyond vision related that are part of NVLD then I would encourage you to find a COVD trained eye doctor to get a very comprehensive vision exam that looks for visual processing issues. Heck, the exam IMO is worthwhile even if he does have the other issues.

Here's what doesn't fit: (from http://www.med.umich.edu/yourchild/topics/nld.htm)

What are the signs of NLD?


Great vocabulary and verbal expression (He has an excellent vocabulary, but poor verbal expression.)
Excellent memory skills (True, except when it comes to memorizing foreign words or spelling lists.)
Attention to detail, but misses the big picture (No, he's our big picture kid.)
Trouble understanding reading (No, comprehension is a strength)
Difficulty with math, especially word problems (No.)
Poor abstract reasoning (Definitely not!)
Physically awkward; poor coordination (True.)
Messy and laborious handwriting (True.)
Concrete thinking; taking things very literally (No, he's actually excellent at making inferences. His teachers always comment on this.)
Trouble with nonverbal communication, like body language, facial expression and tone of voice (True. He gets very paranoid about other people's intentions and sometimes reads too much into what they say and do.)
Poor social skills; difficulty making and keeping friends (No, he has many friends.)
Fear of new situations (True.)
Trouble adjusting to changes (True.)
May be very naïve and lack common sense (No, quite the opposite! He's remarkably sensible.)
Anxiety, depression, low self-esteem (True, especially on the anxiety front.)
May withdraw, becoming agoraphobic (abnormal fear of open spaces) (No, he keeps throwing himself out there. ...but, he does hide his emotions and become expressionless under stress, which I suppose is a kind of withdrawal.)

He's been seeing an eye doctor every year since he was three, but I don't think I've ever discussed his learning issues with her. She's given him prisms in his glasses, because she says his eyes don't work together well.

Thank you for the suggestion. I can definitely ask her, next time I see her!

 

[clanmcculloch]

How does he do with things like math word problems or comprehension on items he reads? My daughter can do very well in these areas if somebody reads the problems/books to her but if she reads them herself, the information just doesn't process correctly. She's gotten in the habit of reading out loud to herself but even then she has to reread a few times for the audio to sink in since she's struggling so much to make the visually read words make sense as more than a string of disconnected characters. Hearing it though, she can process the info very quickly.

 

[Magpie]

How does he do with things like math word problems or comprehension on items he reads? My daughter can do very well in these areas if somebody reads the problems/books to her but if she reads them herself, the information just doesn't process correctly. She's gotten in the habit of reading out loud to herself but even then she has to reread a few times for the audio to sink in since she's struggling so much to make the visually read words make sense as more than a string of disconnected characters. Hearing it though, she can process the info very quickly.

My son's the opposite! If he reads to himself, he does very well, even if it takes awhile.

He was diagnosed with "borderline" hearing a child, but because he was ahead academically and had good diction on single words, it was never treated. He insists he has no problem hearing now, but I have noticed that he tunes out whenever he's in any kind of lecture situation. And when I read aloud to him, he doesn't seem to comprehend me at all.

He's very visual and tactile. If I'm trying to show him how to do a problem, I'll explain it verbally first and he'll look at me blankly and say, "Huh?" Then I'll do it on paper and he'll get it right away.

I think it's very cool that your daughter has found an effective way around her difficulties!

 

[clanmcculloch]

It sounds to my amature mind as though the convergence/teaming problem with his eyes not fully working together is making him a slower reader but that he's actually a strong visual person. To me, that doesn't translate to dyslexia but as I said, that's just my amature opinion. My other daughter who has Asperger Syndrome is much like your son with her learning style. She actually has it written in her IEP that all homework assignments must be in writing. If she's verbally told to do something, it just doesn't register. The traits you describe actually sound more to me like somebody who's possibly on the extremely high functioning end of the autism spectrum who also has a visual problem. While he's social, he acknowledges that his friends are more peers than real friends. It seems to me that he acts very mature, almost adult-like in his social interactions (I'm making some assumptions based on what you said) which is very common for kids at the high functioning end of the spectrum. I very well could be wrong about this but it does seem as though the psychologist who did his initial evaluation/diagnosis was mixing in his visual problems with the other stuff while in fact they sound like they're separate issues. I'd get another evaluation without stating any kind of diagnosis other than the medically determined visual convergence problem and see what the new evaluation shows.

You might want to have his hearing retested by an audiologist. Ask for testing for auditory processing difficulties in addition to regular hearing tests.

Unfortunately for DD10, it's not an effective way around her difficulties. She's VERY slow and she gets extremely frustrated with visual work. Having to read material out loud several times over times a lot of time and as the work gets harder, she's having to read it more times and there's that much more to read resulting in lots of time devoted to studying or else she doesn't pass her tests. I'm really hoping that once we get a formal diagnosis of a learning disability that the school will be able to do some kind of accomodation involving maybe e-text books with an audio reading software of some kind (if such a thing even exists, I should really research this more; it's probably something that's used for the blind) and hopefully allowing her to type all of her work (she's an excellent touch typist thank goodness).

 

[Singledad]

You might want to have his hearing retested by an audiologist. Ask for testing for auditory processing difficulties in addition to regular hearing tests.

I second this one!

(Links links links)

http://www.ldonline.org/article/Visual_and_Auditory_Processing_Disorders for info about why I think you should check the processing.

I also want to point out Dysgraphia again: http://www.ldonline.org/article/12770?gclid=CLOBvOWOkKoCFQw75QodOnb6zQ

The spelling and handwritting issues are the same as mine.

they also have a whole section about gifted students. ( http://www.ldonline.org/indepth/gifted )

i'd also look at Mixed receptive-expressive language disorder http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/001545.htm

as when you were talking about the trouble with words, well, that is what I thought of first.

there are SO many things this could be.... but a lot of what you wrote made me think of dysgraphia. putting things on paper, or typing them out is nearly impossible.

 

[Gigi22]

Not sure about the ins and outs of dyslexia as a diagnosis--but I thought I should mention here that my first boss was dyslexic. She was a lawyer, and later a judge. I don't know how she did it, but she clearly managed the reading requirements for both positions. And, her first language was not English, but Danish.

 

[katrina1122]

In 4th grade my parents had me tested for learning disabilities, we were told I had some, without a description of what they were, because the school system wouldn't help me due to an above average IQ and I read above grade level. All my life I had problems though. I'd cross a d and dotted a t. When writing a sentence some words would be very far apart others would be on top of each other. I'd mispell of as uv but get tangerine just fine. I could never understand math the way it was taught. The teacher just wanted you to follow a string of steps to get an answer, I needed to know why that answer was correct, how that string worked. I would add 2+2 and get 5 if I worked too fast, which was often the case because I work and read slowly.

Finally in college a prof suggested I go to our disability resource center when she noticed some of my 'dumb' mistakes as they were always called. She said she knew I was smart and didn't think they were just mistakes. Oh praise that center and that professor! They tested me again and we compared the records my parents had from 4th grade to the new tests. Turns out I had several mild disabilities, including several forms of dyslexia. i had always thought dyslexia was just flipping letters around, turns out it can be other things, like how I wrote. Also, when I read I see the spaces between the words before I see the words, this causes diagnonal white stripes down the page. This is why I'd read so slow. My whole life I thought that's how everyone saw a page! I finally knew I wasn't 'stupid'. They explained that my brain processes things differently, that's why I always needed an explanation behind the math to be able to do it. They said it's sort of like asking me to explain how to make a bed. I'll end up with a bed that looks just like yours, but I just did it an order that doesn't make sense to most of the world, but to me it's the only logical way of doing it. Sure, that's an odd example, I mean how many ways can you make a bed, but it's a great simplified explanation.
So my resource center started tutoring me on how to take notes so that they made sense. I had real problem getting what was on the board correctly into my notes for example. How to read a page and see the words first, boy did my comprehension go up! How to understand things in a different way. They also gave me allowances for class. I could register before others so I could pick profs I knew would work with me and I understood well. I was allowed extra time on tests, I couldn't be penalized for misspelling of, but if I messed up a term related to my majors (geography or geology) they could ding me. I could use a calculator for anything I felt I needed it for so I got to 5 correctly. I also had a problem with standardized tests, so profs were asked to give me the ability to at least answer the questions on the paper rather than filling in the bubbles, if not give me a more personalized test. For some reason my brain can't answer those questions that are geared towards tricking you, even if i know the answer. And when it comes to filling in the bubbles forget it. I either skip a line or simply fill in the wrong letter.

I'm now 12 years out of grad school and working. I still have my issues, but thanks to the training and tutoring I got, I'm able to work with them. I know if I'm getting tired to stop reading and switch to something else. I type everything, hand writing things just turns out bad for me. I spell check everything. I could go on. I read on a kindle now, I can change the font as necessary so that stupid white line thing doesn't bother me as much and I read twice as fast.

My point? Don't give up on your son, you don't need a name per se, you need someone to help him get through the problems he has. And yes you can be dyslexic and be a good reader.

 

[Pinmaniac]

I believe it is possible for a dyslexic person to be a good reader. My brother was diagnosed with dyslexia when he was in grade school and as long as I can remember he has read books for pleasure. I don't know the specifics of the type or severity of his dyslexia but I believe it is number related. He still reads for pleasure when he has the time, graduated college and recently graduated nursing school at the top of his class.

 

[Magpie]

It sounds to my amature mind as though the convergence/teaming problem with his eyes not fully working together is making him a slower reader but that he's actually a strong visual person. To me, that doesn't translate to dyslexia but as I said, that's just my amature opinion.

That makes a lot of sense, actually!

One test that really stood out to me was when they asked him to copy shapes, and have the two shapes touch each other. Every time he tried he could see that it was wrong, but he couldn't seem to do it right. He also couldn't seem to put the tip of his pencil inside a small circle.

My other daughter who has Asperger Syndrome is much like your son with her learning style. She actually has it written in her IEP that all homework assignments must be in writing. If she's verbally told to do something, it just doesn't register. The traits you describe actually sound more to me like somebody who's possibly on the extremely high functioning end of the autism spectrum who also has a visual problem. While he's social, he acknowledges that his friends are more peers than real friends. It seems to me that he acts very mature, almost adult-like in his social interactions (I'm making some assumptions based on what you said) which is very common for kids at the high functioning end of the spectrum.

Autism has come up a few times, mainly because he won't make eye contact and he tends to ignore people he doesn't know. But... it doesn't ring true to me, based on the little bit I understand of autism. Isn't it a kind of social blindness?

You're right that most of his friends are "peers". He treats his teachers that way, too, which has caused them some consternation (To quote one teacher, "He's never rude, but I get the impression he thinks we're colleagues!").

However... my son's also maintained two "best friends" for years, one of whom has severe anxiety issues (diagnosed). When his buddy is melting down, my son always seems to know how to be a calming influence. These are definitely real friendships, with healthy give and take. He seeks them out, even when they're not in the same school, and he'll take a bus halfway across the city to see them. He's not one to let a friendship die of neglect.

It's very puzzling to me, honestly. Because he is SO much more of a social butterfly than I ever was a kid. He always has a group of boys tagging around after him. But then the attendant at the store's change room tries to crack a joke with him and my son freezes and gets a deadpan expression on his face, refusing to even look at the man. I get on his case about not being rude to strangers, and sometimes he's fine... but then something will catch him by surprise and he's right back to ignoring people. When he was a toddler, if anyone spoke to him, he'd sink his teeth into my shoulder (ouch!) and start flailing with his arm, trying to hit them. He's past that (thank goodness!), but in some ways he hasn't changed a whole lot.

Is he just shy?

I very well could be wrong about this but it does seem as though the psychologist who did his initial evaluation/diagnosis was mixing in his visual problems with the other stuff while in fact they sound like they're separate issues. I'd get another evaluation without stating any kind of diagnosis other than the medically determined visual convergence problem and see what the new evaluation shows.

You might want to have his hearing retested by an audiologist. Ask for testing for auditory processing difficulties in addition to regular hearing tests.

Great idea! I will do that.

Unfortunately for DD10, it's not an effective way around her difficulties. She's VERY slow and she gets extremely frustrated with visual work. Having to read material out loud several times over times a lot of time and as the work gets harder, she's having to read it more times and there's that much more to read resulting in lots of time devoted to studying or else she doesn't pass her tests. I'm really hoping that once we get a formal diagnosis of a learning disability that the school will be able to do some kind of accomodation involving maybe e-text books with an audio reading software of some kind (if such a thing even exists, I should really research this more; it's probably something that's used for the blind) and hopefully allowing her to type all of her work (she's an excellent touch typist thank goodness).

Sorry to hear that - I hope you get your diagnosis soon, and that it leads to the right kind of help for your DD!

I second this one!

(Links links links)

http://www.ldonline.org/article/Visual_and_Auditory_Processing_Disorders for info about why I think you should check the processing.

I also want to point out Dysgraphia again: http://www.ldonline.org/article/12770?gclid=CLOBvOWOkKoCFQw75QodOnb6zQ

The spelling and handwritting issues are the same as mine.

they also have a whole section about gifted students. ( http://www.ldonline.org/indepth/gifted )

i'd also look at Mixed receptive-expressive language disorder http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/001545.htm

as when you were talking about the trouble with words, well, that is what I thought of first.

there are SO many things this could be.... but a lot of what you wrote made me think of dysgraphia. putting things on paper, or typing them out is nearly impossible.

Oh boy, lots of reading! Thank you!

Based on the links you've given me, mixed expressive-receptive makes some sense. He has a lot of the traits, even though he actually has quite a high vocabulary. Dysgraphia definitely fits, too!

I think clanmcculloch is probably right - there's likely more than one issue going on here. Visual processing, dysgraphia, possibly a hearing issue, too... I'll get that checked out this summer.

I made him "homework sheets" for school last year. They worked better than an agenda, because they only had that particular day's classes, and BIG spaces to write in. I intended for him to write down his homework and then have his teachers sign off on it to show it was correct. But they all ended up writing his homework in his book for him - I guess it was easier. I hope I can still do that in high school!

Also, whenever he wrote an essay, I had him give it to me. Then I'd write all over it in red pencil, asking him what he meant when it didn't make any sense, and circling all the trouble spots. Then he'd go do a rewrite. After which he'd give it to me again, and I'd write all over it again. Rinse. Repeat. Not the most fun thing to do in an evening, but it got him through English.

However, I sometimes wonder what he'll do when I can't be his personal editor any more.

 

[Magpie]

In 4th grade my parents had me tested for learning disabilities, we were told I had some, without a description of what they were, because the school system wouldn't help me due to an above average IQ and I read above grade level. All my life I had problems though. I'd cross a d and dotted a t. When writing a sentence some words would be very far apart others would be on top of each other. I'd mispell of as uv but get tangerine just fine. I could never understand math the way it was taught. The teacher just wanted you to follow a string of steps to get an answer, I needed to know why that answer was correct, how that string worked. I would add 2+2 and get 5 if I worked too fast, which was often the case because I work and read slowly.

Finally in college a prof suggested I go to our disability resource center when she noticed some of my 'dumb' mistakes as they were always called. She said she knew I was smart and didn't think they were just mistakes. Oh praise that center and that professor! They tested me again and we compared the records my parents had from 4th grade to the new tests. Turns out I had several mild disabilities, including several forms of dyslexia. i had always thought dyslexia was just flipping letters around, turns out it can be other things, like how I wrote. Also, when I read I see the spaces between the words before I see the words, this causes diagnonal white stripes down the page. This is why I'd read so slow. My whole life I thought that's how everyone saw a page! I finally knew I wasn't 'stupid'. They explained that my brain processes things differently, that's why I always needed an explanation behind the math to be able to do it. They said it's sort of like asking me to explain how to make a bed. I'll end up with a bed that looks just like yours, but I just did it an order that doesn't make sense to most of the world, but to me it's the only logical way of doing it. Sure, that's an odd example, I mean how many ways can you make a bed, but it's a great simplified explanation.
So my resource center started tutoring me on how to take notes so that they made sense. I had real problem getting what was on the board correctly into my notes for example. How to read a page and see the words first, boy did my comprehension go up! How to understand things in a different way. They also gave me allowances for class. I could register before others so I could pick profs I knew would work with me and I understood well. I was allowed extra time on tests, I couldn't be penalized for misspelling of, but if I messed up a term related to my majors (geography or geology) they could ding me. I could use a calculator for anything I felt I needed it for so I got to 5 correctly. I also had a problem with standardized tests, so profs were asked to give me the ability to at least answer the questions on the paper rather than filling in the bubbles, if not give me a more personalized test. For some reason my brain can't answer those questions that are geared towards tricking you, even if i know the answer. And when it comes to filling in the bubbles forget it. I either skip a line or simply fill in the wrong letter.

I'm now 12 years out of grad school and working. I still have my issues, but thanks to the training and tutoring I got, I'm able to work with them. I know if I'm getting tired to stop reading and switch to something else. I type everything, hand writing things just turns out bad for me. I spell check everything. I could go on. I read on a kindle now, I can change the font as necessary so that stupid white line thing doesn't bother me as much and I read twice as fast.

My point? Don't give up on your son, you don't need a name per se, you need someone to help him get through the problems he has. And yes you can be dyslexic and be a good reader.

Thank you SO much!

When my boy gets back from his trip, I'm going to ask him how he sees a page when he's reading. It didn't occur to me that he might see it differently than the rest of us.

Your description of needing to understand math is dead-on. I was homeschooling him in Grade 4 and when it came time for long division, I ended up having to break it down and show him WHY it works. He couldn't remember the steps, otherwise. Each and every step had to make sense to him, before he could move on. We must have spent a month on that, just doing long division every day.

Most of his mistakes on his math tests are from working too quickly, or mixing up operations. He won't write 3+2 = 5, he'll write 3+2 = 6, because he multiplied instead of added.

I think it might be time for a reassessment, since he's heading into high school...

 

[katrina1122]

So glad my descriptions could help.

The seeing the page thing differently was the most amazing thing to me. Here I am 20 years old in college and I find out I'm not supposed to see white lines on a page? And all the others things to boot, I remember crying with joy that I was learning disabled because I knew I wasn't stupid, but my grades just didn't reflect what I knew...about a C avg in college, B+ in HS.

When I went to Grad school I had all my skills right off and ended up with a 3.8 avg, I would have had a 4.0 but my teacher was sexist. There were 5 girls and 4 boys in my class, girls all got B's, guys all got A's, but I didn't care because I knew I had an A and I was able to keep up, etc. I didn't even request extra time, etc from my grad school profs, but did tell them up front about my disabilities. If they noticed I was having an issue they'd step in to help get me back on track.

Getting the right help and training, regardless of the name of the disabilty is what matters.

 

[katrina1122]

I also wanted to add that i've always had a quiet personality too as well as overly anxious at times.

As a kid I was always asking if the doors were locked. If I thought my sister was being too dangerous I'd disipline her even though my parents were right there and knew she was just being her ususal dare devil self and all was fine, but to me, she was going to get hurt and so I worried. I always had friends, but was never someone's best friend, or if I was, they'd move on after a year or 2. I never could figure out why. In college that went away, but I just never totally fit in until then. It wasn't that i was shy or rude, but I was always the naive one, the quiet one, the careful one. Even today I hate being in meetings/groups where I don't know the people, I just don't tend to talk in those situations. Once I'm comfortable with people you can't shut me up.

In my early 30's I was diagnosed with panic/anxiety disorder and depression. The dr's weren't surprised when I told them my childhood history and that I had learning disabilities. They say the 2 often go together. Don't panic, I'm not saying this will happen to your son, but I am saying you've mentioned his difficulty talking to strangers and making connections with people, so it reminded me of me. Turns out my anxiety was triggered by a medication I was given for a sleep disorder, otherwise it probably would have never triggered into a full blown disorder. I'm on 1 med for it now and don't have any problems anymore.

I also have gone through vision training a few times because I go crossed eyed too easily and my depth perception is slightly off. Have your eye dr check for this. It helped with my reading as well.

Lastly, I have fibromyalagia and I believe I've had it my whole life. I always had terrible pains which were always said to be growing pains. I've always been overly sensitive to noise. I hate loud things, and by loud, I mean just above normal sounding to most people. My hearing tests show I have way above normal hearing on low and high pitched sounds. My whole life my parents wondered why sometimes I'd just stop what I was doing, sit down and just stare off into space, they thought I was just being lazy and would yell at me to get up and do something. I could never explain it, but it was just something I needed to do. When they diagnosed my problems they told me I was overly stimulated by noise at that moment and was just recentering myself and encouraged me to sit quietly when I need to. Sometimes noise can bother me so much I hear a conversation across a restaurant, but not the person at my table, I start to feel sick to my stomach. I'll just get up, go outside for a few minutes and let my brain reset. Noise and light sensistivity are also common to people with fibro, as are learning disablities. No one knows why but when you start comparing notes with other fibromyalagia patients you often find these things. The only other person I know who see's the white lines has fibro too.

So that's something to consider for your son as well. Does he hurt alot? Do you have someone in your family with it? It's not a cure for the issues, but it's just another reason to keep fighting until he gets the help he needs.

 

[clanmcculloch]

Autism has come up a few times, mainly because he won't make eye contact and he tends to ignore people he doesn't know. But... it doesn't ring true to me, based on the little bit I understand of autism. Isn't it a kind of social blindness?

You're right that most of his friends are "peers". He treats his teachers that way, too, which has caused them some consternation (To quote one teacher, "He's never rude, but I get the impression he thinks we're colleagues!").

However... my son's also maintained two "best friends" for years, one of whom has severe anxiety issues (diagnosed). When his buddy is melting down, my son always seems to know how to be a calming influence. These are definitely real friendships, with healthy give and take. He seeks them out, even when they're not in the same school, and he'll take a bus halfway across the city to see them. He's not one to let a friendship die of neglect.

It's very puzzling to me, honestly. Because he is SO much more of a social butterfly than I ever was a kid. He always has a group of boys tagging around after him. But then the attendant at the store's change room tries to crack a joke with him and my son freezes and gets a deadpan expression on his face, refusing to even look at the man. I get on his case about not being rude to strangers, and sometimes he's fine... but then something will catch him by surprise and he's right back to ignoring people. When he was a toddler, if anyone spoke to him, he'd sink his teeth into my shoulder (ouch!) and start flailing with his arm, trying to hit them. He's past that (thank goodness!), but in some ways he hasn't changed a whole lot.

Is he just shy?

Boy, you could be describing my Aspie (child with Asperger Syndrome).

DD13 is extremely social. She'll talk to amost anybody who will let her talk to them.

The thing with teachers is actually a big complaint of DD13's teachers. She's had a goal in her IEP for the last couple of years involving teaching her appropriate ways to converse with people of differnt social positions such as peers vs teachers. They haven't been overly successful with this and it drives her teachers nuts. They know she's not being disrespectful but it's hard for them to talk with a student to talks to them like they're peers. Thank goodness they're understanding.

DD13 has a few really good friends. They're all on the spectrum or have their own anxiety or social problems. They seem to just "get" each other even though they're all so different. When any one of them is melting down, they're great about either supporting them through the meltdown or else helping them get past it. They're such a great group of kids.

DD13 definitely does have trouble with people she doesn't know if she's not the one who initiates contact. Even at WDW she won't always answer CMs who talk to her. I've had to really drill into her what kinds of responses are expected by TSA because one time she wouldn't even talk to the agent asking her for her name. Yikes! That could have been bad. It's mostly adults that she doesn't know who elicit this response from her. Kids she seems to try to dominate (not intentionally I don't think but she just seems to think she's always supposed to be in charge; we're working on that too).

Sorry to hear that - I hope you get your diagnosis soon, and that it leads to the right kind of help for your DD!

Thanks! We've seen the neurologist who has confirmed that there will be some kind of diagnosis but we're now on a waiting list to see a neuro-psychologist who specializes in ASDs, NVLD (I think he actually wrote a book on this) and ADHD. I don't think we'll have the dx before school starts but should be soon after. Thank goodness I've already got a good raport with the school because of her big sister so I don't think I'll have any difficulties once I get the formal diagnosis.

there's likely more than one issue going on here. Visual processing, dysgraphia, possibly a hearing issue, too... I'll get that checked out this summer.

Good luck!! I hope you also get some answers soon.