Can’t do back to back cruises on the Magic?

[jwalk03]

Hypothetically speaking, could one book a b2b on two different cruise lines (or s2s to be more correct) and still be compliant? I assume since either sailing is okay but not together it's per person and not per cruise line.
2nd hypothetical, not sure if it's even an actual possibility, could one book a one way to PR, a closed loop from there to the ABCs, and then a one way back to the FL?

- If you switch to a different ship in San Juan and then sail back to the mainland US that would not be a PVSA violation.
- If you visit a distant foreign port, like the ABC islands it would also not be a violation.

 

[PrincessShmoo]

Hypothetically speaking, could one book a b2b on two different cruise lines (or s2s to be more correct) and still be compliant? I assume since either sailing is okay but not together it's per person and not per cruise line.
2nd hypothetical, not sure if it's even an actual possibility, could one book a one way to PR, a closed loop from there to the ABCs, and then a one way back to the FL?

A one way cruise from, say Galveston to Puerto Rico on on ship, and an immediate Puerto Rico to Ft Lauderdale, ON DIFFERENT SHIPS is acceptable under the PVSA.

The B2B2B, if all on the same ship would violate the PVSA if the beginning and ending ports of the 1st and 3rd cruises are different. It doesn't matter how many cruises that are linked, what matters is where a person first embarks and finally disembarks. But adding in the distant foreign ports (ABC islands) would make it legal.

 

[Carohs]

Oh this is interesting! Not that the rules won't ever change by the time I have the time/money to book such an itinerary, but it's good to know what you can or can't do. The first hypothetical was worrisome because although DCL coded it so you couldn't book this b2b, what about someone who didn't know better and ended up doing something like that on two different cruise lines. I didn't see a way for it to be caught. Good to know that shouldn't be an issue! Now I'm thinking I could probably find a s2s from Anchorage to Vancouver, for example, and then from Vancouver to Hawaii. The two ships thing I'm still hesitant on but I think I would feel more comfortable if it was two different cruise lines' ships.

 

[Kwami]

Oh this is interesting! Not that the rules won't ever change by the time I have the time/money to book such an itinerary, but it's good to know what you can or can't do.

Unfortunately, the rules aren't likely to change soon. They've been the same for a very long time now.

 

[jwalk03]

Unfortunately, the rules aren't likely to change soon. They've been the same for a very long time now.

The law was signed by Grover Cleveland in 1886; so yeah.

That said- there have been some rumblings of amending it or repealing it in the last few years- particularly when Canada shut down all its ports during the pandemic which would have negated all Alaska cruises- but they only passed a temporary waiver at the time. I do feel like this is something that could be accomplished even in our current polarized political environment though.

 

[scroogie]

what about someone who didn't know better and ended up doing something like that on two different cruise lines.

Provided it's not the same ship getting you between the start and end ports, it's perfectly legal.

Something that I haven't seen mentioned in this thread yet is that this rule only applies to passenger vessels not registered in the United States. Unfortunately for us, that means practically every cruise ship must abide by it. One major exception is NCL's Pride of America, which if it were to ever be pulled from its Hawaiian circuit, could operate these kinds of itineraries without the need to stop at a distant foreign port.

 

[jwalk03]

Provided it's not the same ship getting you between the start and end ports, it's perfectly legal.

Something that I haven't seen mentioned in this thread yet is that this rule only applies to passenger vessels not registered in the United States. Unfortunately for us, that means practically every cruise ship must abide by it. One major exception is NCL's Pride of America, which if it were to ever be pulled from its Hawaiian circuit, could operate these kinds of itineraries without the need to stop at a distant foreign port.

The law also requires that the ship be built in the US- which the Pride of America was not. It received a special exemption to be allowed to operate- but the exemption only applies to Hawaii. So no it currently could not operate between other US ports without violating the PVSA.

 

[anricat]

If I remember correctly, John McCain crafted some legislation to try to repeal the Jones Act (the sister act to this one which deals with cargo and is often confused for this one) but it didn't go anywhere.

The Jones act really bit us in the butt when the PR hurricane happened because it meant we had a hard time getting supplies into PR. Honestly, I don't understand the point of either law in modern society. The two laws apparently didn't pass at the same time. The Jones Act was actually 35 years later.

I'm surprised that the cruise industry hasn't tried to lobby lawmakers to craft legislation to get rid of PVSA, honestly.

 

[anricat]

Huh, apparently Senator Lee of Utah tried to get rid of the PVSA in 2021: https://disneycruiselineblog.com/20...l-services-act-of-1886-pvsa-in-the-us-senate/

 

[jwalk03]

Huh, apparently Senator Lee of Utah tried to get rid of the PVSA in 2021: https://disneycruiselineblog.com/20...l-services-act-of-1886-pvsa-in-the-us-senate/

Lisa Murkowski also introduced some legislation to repeal it as well- as the Protect Alaska Tourism Act or something similar. Canada is apparently a big supporter of the PVSA to force Alaskan cruises into Victoria and Vancouver.

 

[Kingkonig]

I'm surprised that the cruise industry hasn't tried to lobby lawmakers to craft legislation to get rid of PVSA, honestly.

They're not really companies that the federal government is a fan of - many are technically headquartered in tax havens, the ships are registered in the Bahamas, and few of the crew are American. Now, there are a couple of states that like the cruise industry (specifically Florida and Texas given the tourism revenue that they bring by being the major places they leave out of), but that isn't enough to offset the rest that are indifferent to the industry (or hostile to it for what they view as dodging taxes).

It is part of the reason why the industry didn't get much (or any?) relief during COVID with the PPP or other corporate relief. They will not find friends in Congress.

 

[PrincessShmoo]

For those interested here's a good explanation of the PVSA history:
https://boards.cruisecritic.com/top...essel-services-actjones-act/#comment-67325610

 

[happycamper47]

For those interested here's a good explanation of the PVSA history:
https://boards.cruisecritic.com/top...essel-services-actjones-act/#comment-67325610

After reading that the Coast Guard must not be too worried about how the crews are trained or that the ships are unsafe since they are allowing the virtual muster drills in lieu of in person. After the last virtual one we went through on NCL two weeks ago, I doubt 1/2 the passengers had a clue as to where to go.

 

[anricat]

For those interested here's a good explanation of the PVSA history:
https://boards.cruisecritic.com/top...essel-services-actjones-act/#comment-67325610

Wow, thanks for that. Now things make a LOT more sense.

 

[Nannaj]

Hello fellow cruisers, I booked a Disney cruise with Disney on the Magic from Galveston to San Juan leaving on 3-24-25 as soon as bookings were available for Platinum members. The cruise travels to Castaway Cay, the Bahamas and Lookout Cay. Over the weekend I booked the next cruise on the Magic with Costco travel going from San Juan to the Bahamas, Castaway Cay and then ending in Fort Lauderdale. I noticed that the Castaway Club member numbers were incorrect on my Costco booking so I called to get this resolved. Come to find out I must cancel one of these cruises as the full itinerary violates the Jones Act!!!! I looked into this a little bit and don’t have a good understanding as to why I cannot travel on these 2 cruises??? I’m also reading that Puerto Rico is exempt from all of this???

Any insight would be appreciated! Thank you!

This is interesting (and confusing). I am doing a btb from Hawaii to Vancouver, BC/Vancouver, BC-San Diego. We do have to get off and go through customs in BC (which means we have to take our luggage off), so maybe that makes it not truly a btb, but we are able to take both cruises.

 

[happycamper47]

Canada counts as the foreign port. That's why the Alaska cruises out of Seattle normally stop at Victoria BC on the way back. Personally I think they need to do away with it.

 

[jwalk03]

This is interesting (and confusing). I am doing a btb from Hawaii to Vancouver, BC/Vancouver, BC-San Diego. We do have to get off and go through customs in BC (which means we have to take our luggage off), so maybe that makes it not truly a btb, but we are able to take both cruises.

Wait you are starting in Hawaii and ending in San Diego? Are you sure this is allowed? This seems like it would be a PVSA violation and subject to a fine for the cruise line. (And they would likely pass this on to you.)

 

[jwalk03]

Canada counts as the foreign port. That's why the Alaska cruises out of Seattle normally stop at Victoria BC on the way back. Personally I think they need to do away with it.

Canada is a foreign port; but it is not a “distant” foreign port that would allow you to sail from one US port to another US port. You have to sail to somewhere outside North America to qualify as a “distant” foreign port. That is why Panama Canal cruises always stop at a South American port- so they are compliant with the PVSA.

 

[jwalk03]

Canada counts as the foreign port. That's why the Alaska cruises out of Seattle normally stop at Victoria BC on the way back. Personally I think they need to do away with it.

A cruise that starts and ends in the SAME US port only has to visit a foreign port. (Any port outside the US will comply)

A cruise that starts in one US port and ends in a DIFFERENT US port has to visit a “distant” foreign port to comply with PVSA. No foreign port in North America qualifies as a “distant” foreign port under the law.

 

[Kwami]

This is interesting (and confusing). I am doing a btb from Hawaii to Vancouver, BC/Vancouver, BC-San Diego. We do have to get off and go through customs in BC (which means we have to take our luggage off), so maybe that makes it not truly a btb, but we are able to take both cruises.

Disney might very well contact you and fix that oversight before your cruises.