Calling all parents with opinions

[Aidensmom]

I think we owe it to our kids to keep them within the norms of our society and to not tell them it's okay to do, act like, or BE whatever the heck they want. It sets them up for a great deal of pain in early adulthood...a time when many young adults are horribly lost and tend to attempt suicide. Here are a few statistics:

--Suicide is the third leading cause of death among young people ages 15 to 24. In 2001, 3,971 suicides were reported in this group.

--Of the total number of suicides among ages 15 to 24 in 2001, 86% (n=3,409) were male and 14% (n=562) were female.

The answers to the problems of making those numbers lower are in open communications with your kids, spending time with them, and teaching them survival and coping skills.

So the short answer from me is this: If you're teaching them to cope and survive by giving them free reign over their bodies to dress, pierce, and tattoo but not allowing them to drink, smoke, and do drugs, you're sending a mixed signal about conforming to societal standards for appearance. You're also giving those around him/her a good reason to judge him/her based on looks. It's much more difficult to survive in this society when you stick out.

Good luck with whatever you decide.

I completely disagree that we should NOT encourage our children to be whatever they want to be. I strongly believe in encouraging my son to be exactly who he is, because meeting society's expectations does not neccessarily mean happiness.

Success is society is a subjective observation. The local cashier at McDonald's can be a success in life if they are happy. It may be more difficult to survive in society when you stick out, meaning you may be more subject to the judgementalism of others, but that does not mean you cannot have a good, happy life.

I am speaking from experience. I have often been told by people, including my mother, that I am not living up to my abilities, do not look like someone with a professional job, and do not "fit in". But guess what, I am happy where I am, I would NOT be happier working longer hours, having more responsibility at work, or having more money. And just a note, I have always made sure my tattoo was in full view in job interviews, because I want someone to hire me for who I am and not for who they want me to be. I have always gotten any job I interviewed for. And I have a fairly well paying, respectable, professional job.

I would be a very unhappy person if I was worried about always fitting into the "norms" of society.

 

[aprilgail2]

Ear piercing I am fine with at any age..my godson had his first earring at 5 and his second hole at 8...his hair was below his shoulders from preschool-5th grade (of course since he had cancer he lost it and had to grow it back a couple times!)...he wore it in a pony tail sometimes, other times down...he was far from a punk, he was a good kid and very involved in community things..he became a Junior firefighter at 12. I would be fine with hair coloring wouldn't be real happy with any other type facial piercing...tattoo is fine once they turn 18, clothes..who cares...they are just clothes....

 

[Marseeya]

But clearly, in your family, your children have actually lived up to a code set by their parents. It's really no different than those of us who encourage our children to "conform", you have encouraged them not to "conform". Parents do have a right (and an obligation) to try to raise their children in a way that they think will get them far in society. There are just different ways of thinking about what kind of behavior will accomplish that.

I don't have any problem with your notion that being different gives them strenth of character. What I have a problem with is the parents who think they don't dare try to give their child any boundries for fear their kids won't like them. I think trying to stretch boundries is part of the teenage experience and that those with no boundries miss out.

Oh, I give my kids boundaries! Just ask them and I'm sure they'll emphatically let you know. And this might be semantics, but I'm not actually "encouraging" my kids not to conform, I'm supporting them in being themselves.

I find it interesting (and some of you might say, "that's different," but I don't see it that way), that a couple of months ago I posted on here about my DD. She had told me before I bought her school clothes that she didn't want anything Disney princess on them because the kids in school hated her for it. I told her it was such a shame that she had to hide who she really is just to be liked by kids who would probably find a stupid reason not to like anybody, but that we'd buy her whatever clothes she wanted within reason.

Well, she changed her mind and basically said, "to heck with what everyone else thinks" and told me she wanted princess stuff! When I posted that, everyone was all, "Good for her! It's so great she's going to just be herself!"

To me, that's no different. Just because her idea of being herself is something that's acceptable to adults, why does that make it more right than something that's not acceptable to adults? Clearly, the kids in her school don't find princess clothes socially acceptable. Why is it so much better to be looked down upon for wearing princess clothes than it is to have black hair and to wear black nail polish?

I think what it boils down to is that we all want what's best for our kids, even if we as parents can't agree on exactly what that is. It's not like we were handed a user's manual when they were born.

(I wonder if my attitude has to do with the fact that I originally went to college to study music? I was around so many incredibly talented and wonderfully creative individuals who looked like what the outside world would consider freakish. They were the most well-grounded, interesting, polite, kind and gentle people I've ever met. )

 

[leighe]

DH and I have been discussing this a lot lately since our first is due in January. I am a more "pick your battles" kind of person. If DD wants to have green hair - hey, she's the one who will look silly and it's not permanent. DH on the other hand thinks wanting to have green hair is a sign of a more serious behavior problem. I don't think that's necessarily true at all. I teach high school and spend a lot of time with teenagers so I have a frame of reference that DH lacks. Also, DH is a much more in the box thinker than I am. He tends to get really uncomfortable and a little insecure in situations or with people or ideas he is not familiar with.

Of course - ask me this question again when DD really is old enough to want green hair or a nose ring! I'll probably say "Absolutely not!"

 

[Marseeya]

DH and I have been discussing this a lot lately since our first is due in January. I am a more "pick your battles" kind of person. If DD wants to have green hair - hey, she's the one who will look silly and it's not permanent. DH on the other hand thinks wanting to have green hair is a sign of a more serious behavior problem. I don't think that's necessarily true at all. I teach high school and spend a lot of time with teenagers so I have a frame of reference that DH lacks. Also, DH is a much more in the box thinker than I am. He tends to get really uncomfortable and a little insecure in situations or with people or ideas he is not familiar with.

Of course - ask me this question again when DD really is old enough to want green hair or a nose ring! I'll probably say "Absolutely not!"

I see you're in Kentucky, so I bet the schools wouldn't allow green hair and body piercings! That kind of lets you off the hook. I went through the green hair dilemma with my DS last spring, but the school's dress code didn't allow it. I told him he could do it over the summer if he paid for it himself. It wasn't exactly something I could do at home, as I'd have had to bleach his hair, then dye it green. There seems to be so much room for error there! Needless to say, he didn't pay for it

 

[PatsGirl]

So the short answer from me is this: If you're teaching them to cope and survive by giving them free reign over their bodies to dress, pierce, and tattoo but not allowing them to drink, smoke, and do drugs, you're sending a mixed signal about conforming to societal standards for appearance. You're also giving those around him/her a good reason to judge him/her based on looks. It's much more difficult to survive in this society when you stick out.

Good luck with whatever you decide.[/QUOTE]


I couldn't disagree with this more Drinking, smoking, and doing drugs has nothing to do with societal standards of appearance. It is against the law, bad for your health, dangerous to your body and potentially to those around you, impairs your judgement which so often creates more teenage issues, among other things.

When was the last time wearing baggy pants or a nose ring caused hospitalization, increased the risk of pregnancy (or suicide for that matter), or endangered the health of those around you?

While I agree that personal appearance can play a big part in the employment scene and can unfortunately give a bad "first impression", this is one of life's lessons.

"And the sign said long-haired freaky people need not apply, so I tucked my hair up under my hat and went in to ask him why. He said you look like a fine, upstanding young man, and I think you'll do, so I took off my hat and said, imagine that, huh -- me working for you!

Sign, sign, everywhere a sign, do this, don't do that, can't you read the sign?"

IMHO I would much rather have a well-mannered and respectful, albeit tatooed and ear-ringed, nose-ringed, or tongue-ringed, teenager bag my groceries or wash my car, than some snotty-nosed well-dressed one that doesn't even acknowledge my existence (and this happens to me all the time!) and I'd certainly rather hire one too.

From a mother of baggy-jeaned, boxers showing honor roll student who once had blue hair and earrings and a beautiful DD8 that I just know is going to push my buttons even more than he does. Do I like his appearance, NO, do I hound him about him, NO. Has it hurt his chances for employment, NO. He has worked at least 10 hours a week since the month he turned 14 and now pays for all those clothes I don't like. And, both of his bosses have nothing but good things to say about him.

Brenda

 

[Bashful2]

DD has her tongue and her nose peirced. She used to have her eyebrow pierced, but when she got her nose done I talked her into taking it out. It was the only piercing I didn't like. She also has 4 holes in each ear and her tragus on one ear.

For a couple of years, she also wore all black with a lot of chains and other goth accessories. Most of her friends were also goth. She now dresses more normally for the most part, but many of her friends still wear the goth style.

She is definitely not a bad kid nor are her friends. Yes, a lot of them have problems, such as depression and/or messed up family lives. She does know some kids who are heavy into drugs, but they are either acquaintences or friends she drifted away from.

As far as antisocial, I'd have to disagree. I would call them non-conformists. I've met her friends and a lot have been to the house. They are in no way antisocial. In fact, the goths who I have known have been much more accepting of others than other groups I see.

I also see how people judge these kids. DD has gotten dirty looks more than once. The funny thing is that she is the kid who will give up her seat on the bus, hold the door open for someone or turn a lost item into lost and found. I really think it's sad that our society continues to judge others based on looks.

 

[Marseeya]

I also see how people judge these kids. DD has gotten dirty looks more than once. The funny thing is that she is the kid who will give up her seat on the bus, hold the door open for someone or turn a lost item into lost and found. I really think it's sad that our society continues to judge others based on looks.

Yup. And try being overweight too.

I'm always so disgusted at the rudeness people display just because others are different.

 

[MUFFYCAT]

I do like choose some battles. I'll go with most except the piercing (other than 2 holes in the ear) and tattoos. Those they'll have to wait until they are adults.

 

[CharlesTD]

My mom and I are having a debate over something so I decided to get more opinions on the topic and what better place then the DISboards! (I think)

Seriously, I told her that when my kids are teenagers (they are 10,8,5,5,now) that I wasn't going to make a bit deal over certain things.

Son wants his ear-pierced? Fine. They want tattoos? Fine. Nose pierced? Fine. Dress in black from head to toe including lips and nails? Fine Safety pin through your eyebrow? Fine.

Drugs, alcohol or smoking? No way, absolutely not. DH and I do none of those and they better not either.
Show respect and kindness for those around you? You better believe it.
Keep up the grades? Of course.

If my kids turn out to be decent, smart and respectful, should it really matter that they have a ring through their nose?

All opinions welcomed....that's why asked!

Disclaimer: OP's kids are still young and OP reserves the right to change any and all of the above should she deem necessary anytime within the next 10-12 years. Thank-you and have a nice day.

Good work but I have to say from experiance drinking and drugs are not going to dictate wether the kids turn out polite and kind. From experiance I am generally a very polite and kind person and I drank lots and did many many different drugs when I was 18-19-20 and luckily with no ill effects. It is more about how you raise the child if you teach them respect without excluding them from trying things it usually works out much better for you in the end. Just remember one thing and that is support your kids even if they make some bad choices or decisions because having them know you are there to help and offer support will make a big difference take it from me I have 5 tattoos and 5 earings and did all teh wrong things according to many while I was growing up but I learned some valuable lessons from it and I am not going to limit my kids in that way by telling them they can't do things especially when I know full well I did the same stuff. I will however be there to help them should they need it.

 

[leighe]

I see you're in Kentucky, so I bet the schools wouldn't allow green hair and body piercings! That kind of lets you off the hook. I went through the green hair dilemma with my DS last spring, but the school's dress code didn't allow it. I told him he could do it over the summer if he paid for it himself. It wasn't exactly something I could do at home, as I'd have had to bleach his hair, then dye it green. There seems to be so much room for error there! Needless to say, he didn't pay for it

My school just tightened up their dress code this year. Last year we had kids with mohawks and all kinds of colored hair. You are right, however! The school dress code probably will let me off the hook!

 

[disykat]

Good work but I have to say from experiance drinking and drugs are not going to dictate wether the kids turn out polite and kind. From experiance I am generally a very polite and kind person and I drank lots and did many many different drugs when I was 18-19-20 and luckily with no ill effects. It is more about how you raise the child if you teach them respect without excluding them from trying things it usually works out much better for you in the end. Just remember one thing and that is support your kids even if they make some bad choices or decisions because having them know you are there to help and offer support will make a big difference take it from me I have 5 tattoos and 5 earings and did all teh wrong things according to many while I was growing up but I learned some valuable lessons from it and I am not going to limit my kids in that way by telling them they can't do things especially when I know full well I did the same stuff. I will however be there to help them should they need it.

But part of teaching respect is asking them to respect your values. Dh and I don't have tats or piercings, we don't smoke, curse, etc. We expect our kids to respect this and live similarly while living in our home. If you are a person with tats and piercing, or someone who smokes, or someone who likes to cuss, etc. "allowing" your child to also do so is really doing the same thing I am - it's just that you have different expectations. While we can't control what they do when the leave home or are out of our home, we can expect them to live according to our rules while they are there.

I totally agree that parenting teens requires a certain amount of flexibility. I don't think that means that you can't discourage certain things. My kids have always broken rules, that's what kids do. It doesn't mean I'm not going to establish expectations and boundries that meet my expectations and what I want them to learn. It also doesn't mean I'm not going to love them when they don't follow my expectations.

When my child was a toddler and started resisting bedtime, I didn't just say okay do whatever you want. I tried to guide and mold him to meet my expectations. I didn't hate him when he failed, I lovingly supported him while continuing to try to meet my parenting objectives. Sometimes that involved compromise on my part, sometimes on his, but I kept working towards the goal that I, as the parent, set. If I, as the parent, decide it is in my teen's best interest to conform to certain guidelines, that is what I will continue to encourage.

 

[sha_lyn]

DS wears all back "goth" type clothing. Often dyes his hair wild colors. Holds down a job, and ask his boss permission when changing his appearance. Just received another raise/promotion at work. DS is now the head instructor for all youth classes. Makes decent grades (98-85 average in everything except Algebra, where he has an average around 79 right now). We are often complemented on how well mannered and well spoken DS is. He also babysits very often for a wide variety of ages, from infant to preteens. Babysitting often cuts into his social life LOL, but then it does help support the social life too.

Our boss recently pointed out that DS received a huge complement from the parent of one of DS's students. The student is 5 and went to get his hair cut right before class one night. The student asked his dad if he could wear his hair like DS so the dad let the stylist spike his hair with blue styling gel. I happened to be teaching that night because DS was sick. The Dad even took pictures for DS. Apearntly the story was the talk of the town on the TKD/TSD instructors/school owners forums. DS has an excelent reputation in the martial arts comunity and is often requested (and was ordered to by the cheif national referree for USSA TKD) to coach and judge at tournaments.

DS has friends of many different ages. When in the company of younger friends he asks the parents (not the kids) what games, music, movies are ok for the friend to watch/listen to. Just last week DS refussed to burn a CD for a 13 yr old unless the boys mom called DS so they could talk about the lyrics.

If people chose to judge DS by his clothing/appearance instead of his actions, that is their loss.

 

[Tiggeroo]

i'm not going to read all the posts so i'll just reply. I think on some level you need to give your kids something to rebel against. If you say yes to everything too easily they will keep pushing til they find something you don't like even if it's drugs. I prefer saying no sometimes or convincing them to postpone things.
I wouldn't let the boys pierce their ears til they were 14. Then they didn't want to. I told them they could get tattoos and i'd even help pay or take them when they were near end of sr. year. They didn't want to then.
Also, i'd strongly discourage kids from doing things that limit employability and cause people to treat them differently. My kids have a diverse group of friends and I love the ones with piercings/tats, enlarged piercings but i'm easy going. The world won't look at them that way.

 

[CharlesTD]

Oour oldest DD is 9 and doens't have her ears pierced even though DW and I have offered to take her. I told her at 16 if she wants we can go and get a tattoo if she wants one but she has said no LOL. DW also has tattoos so does her dad but no one else wants to get one. Her mother plans on getting one for her 60th this year so DW is going to go with her and get another one. My kids like to try to push the limits but only on things they know the rules are running loosely on like bedtimes and shows. They still all prefer to listen to Disney music and watch Disney shows rather than mainstream music and tv. Our oldest daughter doesn't even care for the music they play at practice for her power cheer program she is in so I think I am safe for the time being LOL. It is DW and I that the kids need to worry about LOL.

 

[person]

Well my view would be:

Boy and girl: teens like hair dyeing and it will soon wash off.

Boy: earring(s) preferably not before 15-16 but maybe 12-13.

No tattooing under 18, boy or girl.

 

[EthansMom]

I'm with the "nothing permanent" crowd for the most part.

If the kids want to dye their hair and they are paying for it, I'm okay with that.

Also, if they want one piercing in each ear, that's okay (boy and girl).

I wouldn't let them get a tattoo since they are permanent and your tastes/interests at 16 are different than at 30.

Already, I've taught my 4 year-old that illegal drugs are bad and make people sick.

But, I wouldn't have any problem with my children having a half-glass of wine or a bottle of beer at home with dinner in their late teens. They would know that they couldn't drink at other people's homes without asking Mom or Dad first and that drinking to excess and drinking and driving were not acceptable behaviour. That's pretty much how DH and I were raised and it seems to have worked with us -- we enjoy a nice glass of wine or a good beer, but never over-imbibe.

 

[Desnik]

I think how we parent has alot to do with how we were raised. For example absolutely no alcohol/drugs would be tolerated by me. Not even a sip of wine. I think that is mostly because growing up my dad was an alcoholic/drug addict. I also had some trouble with that when I was a teen. It's in the jeans and it wouldn't be tolerated by myself or DH. Luckily DH doesn't drink so this isn't a problem from him. I wouldn't tolerate smoking either. DH and I watched his grandfather die of lung cancer, and it wasn't pretty. I use to smoke and quite when I found out I was pregnant with DD. She is almost 8 and she has been drilled about how bad smoking is for you, she thinks it's gross, even though her grandparents do it! Let's hope she keeps that opinion!LOL

As a teen I was able to express myself and my parents never tried to control how I looked. They would complain occasionally, but pretty much let me dress how I wanted. I had blue hair at one point, a shaved head underneath long hair, I wore combat boots, then went through fases of dressing with baggy pants and boy clothing, then got older and dressed more provocatively. I was all over the place. No tatoos. Parents wouldn't allow it and I'm glad they didn't. I wouldn't allow my kids to get a tatoo, they have to wait to be an adult to do that one. I had piercings, tongue, navel, etc... So, no biggy if they wanted a piercing. DH has both ears pierced. I only have my ears pierced now, boy have I changed!!!
I want my kids to have a very high self worth/esteem. To not damage their bodies with drugs/smooking/alcohol. I want them to be kind and respectful. I also want them to have the freedom of expression so if they want purple hair when they are 16 and they are a straight A student, then it won't bother me.

I do have to add that I am very open and up front with my daughter and I've told her some of the crazy stuff I did like hair colorings and piercings. I showed her the barbell I had in my tongue! She thinks I was crazy and often tells me she would never do those things!!! She'll probably be so straight and narrow like her dad!

 

[SC Minnie]

I am in the nothing permanent camp too. Piercings to some extent OK-- nothing in the lip, tongue, or on the face at all. Those big things in the ears that they change every so often to bigger things (sorry, don't know what they are called ) are definitely out of the question. Tattoos are a no until 18 or no longer being supported by me.

 

[2sweetangels]

My opinion is LET THEM BE WHO THEY WANT TO BE if they are comfortable dressing a certain way, let them. If you let your kids be who they want to be, they will not be so rebellous. About the smoking and drinking, just talk to them about the dangers of it, don't make it sound like your TELLING them NO, just offer them the dangers smoking and drinking brings along. I believe if we treat our kids the way we want to be treated, they will be more respectful twords parents and other people.