Buying Strategy Question - GFV and BCV content (I think)

[PedroD]

Wow, so much to learn and so many things to consider. I thought I would try to just post the basics of what I think I know and my basic profile/preferences to see if I am on the right track or what better thoughts might be out there. Apologies in advance for the long post!

We are pretty fortunate after working hard and saving well to be in a nice position financially. Our family of 5 (kids 18-23) have made many, many Disney trips and we probably should have done this years ago. But, with Disney trips still every 18-24 months into our future, new family members (serious boyfriends and girlfriends) and grandkids coming into the clan in probably the next 8-10 years, we still see ourselves visiting frequently for many years to come. As grandparents in the future, we would happily ‘trade down’ into more moderate resorts as the kiddos won’t care and it would get us more days on property.

As our position has improved over the years, we have worked our way up to settling on the Grand Floridian as our preferred resort and typically spend 5 days there, typically taking advantage of weekend days given busy schedules, approx. every 18 months. We typically do the dining plan and food for us is as important as the parks. We don’t eat a ton, but we like to eat pretty well.

We also will typically want to do one nice vacation every other year at a non-Disney location/hotel. I can also see trips every 3-4 years to either Europe or Hawaii also as part of our travel plan in the ‘non Disney’ years. We also live mid-east coast, with some family ties to the Hilton Head area and a son who likes to surf…so Vero Beach and HHI for an occasional getaway are attractive.

We have the fortunate position to be able to spend up to 80k on the initial DVC purchase and are ok with maintenance fees associated with this purchase annually.

So, for our general situation as described above, I’m thinking about a couple of options:

Option 1 – waitlist for a 100 point direct purchase to GFV, with an add on of 250-300 points at GFV through the resale market
Option 1a – just buy 500 points on the resale market for GFV. (Is the value of having direct purchase through Disney for some base points really worth the price difference versus just buying resale? Other than being restricted from Riviera and other future resorts, I'm thinking 100% resale might be the better way to go?)

Option 2 – waitlist for 100 point direct purchase at BOTH GFV and BCV, and then supplement with another total up to our budget for points at GFV (or possibly both) on the resale market.
-I assume that this might give us more flexibility on bookings and maybe even split stays between properties? For example, if GF is booked when we want the time, could we then use the open points easily on transfer to BCV at the 11 month window point?

I am open to other strategies that we should think about in our case if you have ideas! I think we like the ‘lighter décor’ at these resorts versus at places like AKL or the Wilderness Lodge/Polynesian options. Bay Lake Towers might lack the 'Disney Ambiance' that my wife is looking for.

I guess we then take advantage of Tables in Wonderland and maybe Annual Pass holder options to cover the food and ticket option on the years we intend to visit a Disney property? That's a whole new set of stuff to research...ugh.

Many thanks in advance for any other ideas/wisdom that gets passed along. This will be a great family Christmas present if we pull the trigger!

 

[Cfrone]

Just some food for thought and we're certainly no authority but...

We just closed on a resale contract at the Grand Floridian and at least from my perspective, it is hard to justify the cost difference of going direct (probably @ $100/point). The perks are nice but the cost difference is fairly significant.

In terms of option two, keep in mind that Grand Floridian and Beach Club tend to be some of the hardest properties to book if you dont own there and you won't be able to use VGF points at BVC villas until the 7 month window (and vice versa). That being said, owning at two properties certainly has its benefits but split stays may be the norm (booking a few nights at each property at the 11 month window).

 

[becauseimnew]

If I were in your position I would find a 250-300 GFV resale contract then I would buy 100 points direct that way they can match your UY to your resale contract. Someone just posted that they bought 100 GFV with no wait. Good luck!

 

[thanxfornoticin]

Something to consider with your option 2 - if you are buying multiple contracts, things are so much simpler if you get them in the same use-year. Getting both a GFV and BCV direct from Disney, at the point totals you seek, in the same use-year, could be challenging - not impossible. But it's probably not going to happen quickly.

And just a clarification, to repeat Cfrone's point - if you have 100 points at GF and 100 at BC, you can only use the resort-specific points to book 11 months out at that resort. You could not use 50 of your BC points to book at GF 11 months in advance - you could only do that at 7 months. You might already realize that, but it's an important point in your decision tree! Good luck.

 

[limace]

I don’t think direct makes sense for you with your pattern of travel.

 

[PedroD]

Ok...great to know about the use of points at the 11 month window. I didn't understand that level of detail. So that point alone probably makes my Option 2 not a smart option at all. I was thinking just by getting my foot in the door with base points, I could just apply all points available to me at either property. That simplifies things, so THANK YOU!

But to be clear, if we bought 500 GFV points on resale for example, we could use any available and banked points at any available property (other than Riviera or other new properties) within the 7 month window, correct? Can you just use the points to secure 'standard' rooms also or does it only work within the available rooms that are designated as DVC? Could we use our points to get a standard room at the Animal Kingdome Lodge for example? I'm sure I could 'rent' our points for cash value to apply, but can you use the points directly for standard rooms?

You guys are awesome...thanks for the help!

 

[sethschroeder]

@ $100/point

That is my magic number for just going resale. It starts to get more like 15 years for a breakeven on our personal APs which at that point I am fine losing out. If its 10 years then I am okay with paying some extra. I have been putting in some low offers that I would be fine staying all resale for.

with Disney trips still every 18-24 months into our future

Does not sounds like AP is going to be of benefit (biggest $$$$ saver of direct) and also doesn't sounds like Moonlight Magic would ever be used as well

We typically do the dining plan

So you lose out on any tiny savings you would see from food savings as well from Direct.

It really makes no sense to buy Direct unless you are plan on starting to go way more in the future or you absolutely need to be able to book at future built resorts (or Riviera) which is not a great plan with VGF points since they are so expensive.

 

[RoseGold]

The thing that immediately jumps out at me is that these two resorts are on the opposite end of value for money with VGF being top or near the top for value because of the length of the contract and BCV being dead last because of the opposite. That doesn't mean BCV is a bad pick for your family, it's just something to consider when deciding what's a good value for you.

500 points is a big commitment for young adult kids living their own lives. I can't think of any 20-somethings who want to hang out at Disney. You can always buy direct after resale and then Disney can match your use year. Direct is not going anywhere. Take your time and find the right resale contract instead of giving yourself an arbitrary deadline of Christmas. Especially right now, when points are so cheap to rent.

I picked VGF because I have young kids and wanted them to benefits from the contract. The cool thing about your older kids is that a 2042 BCV might be all they need to take their kids, so maybe BCV is a better pick for you. OR-- maybe you want the VGF to pass to grandkids instead?

Another consideration is that contracts can't be split once they are done. So, if you bought 500 resale, that one contract would have to be given/inherited by your three kids as one singular contract. Obviously, some families do better than others at handling this. If you bought multiple contracts, or even points at both resorts, you could split smaller contracts more evenly. Just a consideration with three kids involved.

Oh, and you can get TiW with a white card.

 

[Where'sPiglet?]

You've gotten a lot of information on whether or not to buy direct at all. If you do choose to buy direct points, I'd go with VGF over BCV for your direct points, simply due to the longer expiration date at VGF. I wouldn't want to get used to any benefits and then lose them while you still have a collection of resale points.

I'd also look into how many points you actually need by using the points charts. Your options 1 and 1a have a spread of 350-500 points, and if you're going every other year, those become 700-1000 points, which is a pretty big difference and may be more (or less) than you need.

Also, keep in mind that room layouts (bed configurations) and services provided (housekeeping) are different on the cash and DVC side of things.

 

[Marionnette]

Ok...great to know about the use of points at the 11 month window. I didn't understand that level of detail. So that point alone probably makes my Option 2 not a smart option at all. I was thinking just by getting my foot in the door with base points, I could just apply all points available to me at either property. That simplifies things, so THANK YOU!

Yeah. If it worked that way we would all buy the bare minimum number of points at the most sought after resorts and then load up on cheap points at another resort.

But to be clear, if we bought 500 GFV points on resale for example, we could use any available and banked points at any available property (other than Riviera or other new properties) within the 7 month window, correct?

Correct

Can you just use the points to secure 'standard' rooms also or does it only work within the available rooms that are designated as DVC? Could we use our points to get a standard room at the Animal Kingdome Lodge for example? I'm sure I could 'rent' our points for cash value to apply, but can you use the points directly for standard rooms?

You guys are awesome...thanks for the help!

Direct points can be used for The Disney Collection (which includes the WDW hotel rooms) but points from resale contracts purchased after March 2011 cannot.

 

[CastAStone]

I think that if you are certain that you want to buy, and I would echo @Where'sPiglet? that you will want to understand the differences between DVC and hotel room layouts if you don't already, in your shoes I would go with 1b and buy 100% resale. Save the money. If you're going every 1.5-2 years then I'd suggest buy about 75% the points it would take to take your vacation in a year, and bank and borrow your points as needed to have enough in the years you go. You probably don't want to regularly be renting out points.

 

[HappyDisneyWife]

The Grand Floridian Resort is absolutely beautiful and the villas are a wonderful place to stay! You have started your research and are off to a great start! But I would recommend doing a bit more to make sure DVC is a good fit for you before diving in with that large of a sum. Of course, at the end of the day- it’s your money, your life, and your choice!

Can you just use the points to secure 'standard' rooms also or does it only work within the available rooms that are designated as DVC? Could we use our points to get a standard room at the Animal Kingdome Lodge for example?

As marionette pointed out, direct points technically can, but the Disney Collection points charts are so much higher, that it’s not worth it.

I'd also look into how many points you actually need by using the points charts. Your options 1 and 1a have a spread of 350-500 points, and if you're going every other year, those become 700-1000 points, which is a pretty big difference and may be more (or less) than you need.

This was a definite question/concern I had as well. You said you’d only be coming ~5 nights per year. If you always want to stay in the GFV grand villas, then I could understand the need for so many points. Any other room type for only 5 nights every other year and I’m just not seeing the need for so many points. Maybe I’m missing something? I know you said you may be interested in visiting some off-site DVC resorts as well, but they don’t require the points that the GFV does. Just a thought.

On the other hand, I have pretty serious addonitis and can completely understand ending up with that many points (I started with 180 and now have over 600)... you may want to start with what you know you want/need and add-on as you go

& I would definitely buy resale all the way (just in a few smaller contracts, versus one big one)

I can't think of any 20-somethings who want to hang out at Disney.

I can! I was one myself. I have 6 children, 3 of which are very near that age-group, and the love isn’t going out anytime soon. It’s something we all share & enjoy together... even when we can’t all go at the same time

 

[PedroD]

Great points by all...thanks so much. So the BCV thing is pretty much DOA now in my mind.

My kids actually are 'those kids' (kids, young adults I guess... ugh) that LOVE going to Disney. We don't necessarily bomb the parks like we used to, but we have so many great memories there that it just feels like a second home for us. 7 times out of 10 if given a choice of where to go, they will probably vote Disney. And now that significant others are in the mix, most of whom never got the full Disney experiences, there is demand for more heads to visit that just us 5. So I need to think about an average of 7-8 heads now moving forward I think, and that is before grandkids. So while 500 seems excessive, I think we will figure out how to use 'em up. And if we have them in the bank, I'm sure we will feel 'forced' to go a bit more often.

Great point on not being able to split the contract. Might be better for me to think about three 150 point contracts for that reason. So glad I asked this expert forum. Great stuff!

 

[poofyo101]

IF you are planning on sleeping around personally I do not think you need all VGF points. The larger rooms are easier to get than studios at the 7 month mark. Get some VGF and some SSR to use as SAP.

 

[PedroD]

A new thought crept into my mind last night. If I were to buy two 150 point resale contracts at GFV, and then bought a 150 pt direct contract for Aulani, I'm thinking it might be something to consider for the following reasons: 1) Gets us direct points with Disney for whatever perks that may or may not be worth. 2) Having three contracts for 150 points each allows us to split the contracts to each of our three kids down the line in a clean manner 3)Gets us into a beach vacation option in the years we may not want to got to the parks 4)As grandkids come onto the scene, it mixes up Disney vacation options at both the parks and in Hawaii...kids could rotate points between themselves depending on ages of grandkids and preferences 5)Minimizes the cost implications of going through Disney versus on the resale market, by only doing 150 points. 6)I think this also gets us options to book at Riviera and new resorts as they come online?

I would think that the points could also more easily be sold for a higher dollar value at these two resorts generally...IF we are not going to use all points in any given year (to help defray cost of maintenance fees for example).

Still having 300 points at GFV is a healthy number and should generally get us into a 2 bedroom unit for the typical 5 days we might normally use anyway. Then banking or borrowing at Aulani could also get us a nice unit there every other year for example.

Using this potential strategy, would it be relatively easy to pull pull points from one home location to another location (albeit at the 7 month mark for the non-home reservation). So for example, if we wanted to use our Aulani points one year to supplement our points at a booked GFV week, is it pretty easy to do that as long as there is availability at the 7 month mark?

Downsides that this strategy might have that I am not considering? The alternative would be to get a larger number of points on one contract at GFV (like 450 or 500 on one contract there for example).

 

[thanxfornoticin]

Once you get to the 7-month mark, assuming all your points are the same use-year, your remaining points would all be available to you for a reservation - very easy. Heck, at 7 months out, you could use the Aulani points and GF points to stay at Animal Kingdom Lodge (or any other DVC resort), if you chose to do so.

You're really thinking this through! It's been interesting!

 

[sethschroeder]

I mean are you for sure going to AUL often enough? Or would it be better to get direct from a lower priced WDW location and then just get AUL at 7 months. Not sure what availability looks like or anything there though.

 

[davidl81]

I think I can see where you are going with all of these points. You are going to end up staying at grand villas with the size of your family over time. And having 500ish points will be what you need for VGF. It sounds like you don't go often enough where the APs would be a good value for you, and to me that is by far the biggest perk of buying direct. So I would say your best bet would buy buying resale and just get them all at VGF since to get grand villas there you may need the 11 month booking window. Aulani to us has always been open at 7 months (maybe not grand villas all the time, but you can do 2 BR and a extra studio for example).

Generally speaking you would prefer to buy a few smaller contracts at VGF that have the same use year (that part is very important for what you are wanting to do) since they will hold their value better. But the counter to that is if let's say you find a 500 pint VGF contract for sale it should be priced significantly cheaper than smaller contracts so your cost basis starts off a lot lower.

 

[PedroD]

Right...thinking really nice family vacations for 5-8 people (depending on whether significant others are invited or not...) for an average of 5 days per year for the next 5-10 years. Then moving to larger time blocks at more reasonably priced properties when the rug-rats start entering the scene. Just trying to understand if better to split properties or do everything at one.

We would want to mix in some other types of beach vacations (through RCI Registry trade or the aforementioned Aulani tie) every 3rd trip on average. We just got back from an awesome experience in Cabo, at a hotel that is in the Registry collection. Frankly, their 'time share' sale presentation is what started this whole dastardly ball rolling...

I honestly believe the smarter play financially is to take a larger chunk of money and set it aside in a separate investment account, and then just use that money for flexible vacations as we go. That way interest is working in our favor. But the math I think means we have to make a 2x investment on the front end (swallow hard), and we just love Disney. This offers a more fun/exciting process with better accommodation options that the whole crew could look forward to for years to come. I also suppose there is a flipping strategy in here somewhere that might warrant a whole new set of strategic options...

This is a good problem to have I guess.

 

[sethschroeder]

Most people will say other than booking a room in DVC anything else is not a good deal typically.

Also if you are buying VGF or BCV points and in the future just staying elsewhere you might be better of at that point selling you would have to see. VGF and BCV are two of the more expensive resorts (VGF because of total price and BCV because of price compared to years left).