Buying a puppy online???

[leight]

14 yrs ago dh & I decided to get our first dog. We reviewed info on different breeds and determined that we wanted a golden retriever. We knew that we wanted a family in a few years and wanted a really family friendly dog. We decided against adopting at the shelters because we just didn't want to take a chance when we brought infants into our home. We started our research for a breeder on the breed's website. Found several local breeders and we narrowed it down to one but she didn't have a litter available for the time we wanted- but she recommended a woman who did have a young litter from which her own champion was the sire. We were interviewed and it was an ideal situation. She was a golden lover, but had a young family and she was really just doing this for her love of the breed and to provide other people with wonderful pets. At the time- I don't know if genetic testing was prevalent- but we were provided with AKC ppwk that showed the bloodlines and the both sides were champion as well as OFA(is that the right term?) clear. Our pup was part of the 2nd( and last) litter for their family dog and the pups were played with by their own kids-they were all family. Our Kahlua was a wonderful, sweet family member we still mourn- she passed at 12.5 in 2008.

6 months later I was dreading spending the holidays without our beloved pet. I again reviewed breeders and found someone who bred labs. I was travelling 2 hrs to see the two young labs she had available (9months & 18months) but I also saw golden puppies on petfinder.com at a nearby rescue to the breeder I was visiting. I decided against the two labs as they were trained for a much more active hunting life than our lifestyle and decided to check on the goldens. There was only one left and the rescue was so horribly maintained that I couldn't bear to leave her, so I took her home. I have no idea about her background- was supposedly from a backyard breeder who was flooded during the hurricane that kept hitting N. florida in 2008. Riley has grown into our family and we love her but you can definiely see the difference in the breeding. I would only adopt again from a Breed rescue who is referred by that breed's club and if the rescue group do temperment training/matching to a family. She has been a lot of work and is worth it now- but I dread what medical issues she may have in the future because I adopted based on emotion and not research.

My point in this is always do what is in the best interest of your family as you welcome this new member- if you don't the poor pup may end up in a shelter because it wasn't right for your family. Don't let anyone guilt you if you have particular circumstances you have to consider- this is a lifetime commitment for all family members. Good luck!

 

[princessmom29]

Why does it have to be one or the other, however?

Show breeders DO produce wonderful pets while they are looking to produce a wonderful dog for the ring. A GOOD dog in the show ring will have a great temperament- shy, snappy dogs will easily be either dismissed and never called back or disqualified if they are THAT nasty.

It doesn't have to be one or the other. That is exactly my point. A dog doesn't have to be a show champ to produce healthy puppies

But these breeders are not usually breeding to show. They are breeding to provide people with quality pets. Some of their clients may want to show them, some may want to do agility or hunt tests, some may do nothing but dote on them all day. So the breeders breeding champion dogs are actually breeding for pets.

The reason the breeders need to show their dogs is that they can not breed their dogs until they have a certain number of championship points. My breeder usually stops showing her dogs as soon as they have the correct number of championship points, she doesn't love the show ring as much as some others do.


I admit, when I was first looking for dogs I thought the same thing about breeders though, I only learned why it was important not to go to a backyard breeder as I did more research.

Who says they cannot breed without a championship? The AKC certianly doesn't. They in fact can, but choose not to because a dog from "champion parents" sells for so much more. It is a money game. The same dog, without the champion behind its name still produces the same puppies,

 

[DisneyAprilFool]

You are missing the point... For most breeders who DON'T show- they DON'T know what they are looking for to PICK a Champion letalone breed for one. Don't be fooled by the thought that a breeder can eyeball a dog and pick the perfect specimen- it takes TIME and KNOWLEDGE of what the breed standard is actually calling for in order to do this. How do you learn? Well, by showing!

I do agree- a Champion title may not be necessary, but for me- showing is. Perhaps a dog had his tail caught in the door and a kink is a disqualification for that breed. Okay- well, the breeder is still showing their other dogs, they are still learning the breed standard and working towards furthering the breed, but they choose to breed that nonChampionship dog because he IS a good representative of the standard. Okay- I get that.

And I have to laugh- I'm sorry. Have you ever paid to show an animal? Yeah, someone with championship lines might ask more for a puppy- they also work harder to achieve those puppies and pay more to produce those puppies! So yes, those puppies are worth more! Dog people have it rough- I get to go to a show, attend 12 rings, see twelve different judges, and hope to make Best of Breed and then go on to place in a Final- TWELVE times. Dog people- they travel all over to show their dogs and then get ONE chance to wow ONE judge- who might pass them up (and oftentimes does), but MIGHT send them up to become best of breed. Their show entry fees are usually cheaper then cat show fees, but they are still paying for gas, hotels, pet deposits in hotels, food, and all of the other miscellaneous nonsense that goes into attending shows. And then! They pack up and do it again and again as they months go by!

It's not cheap being a reputable breeder. If you expect a cheap pet from one- go somewhere else and take your chances. Me? Nope. I'll pay that extra pretty penny and know that for the lifetime of my pet, I have the support of a breeder who cares and one that actually understands the breed standard and bred to improve the breed, not just to make money as has been implied more then once on this thread.

 

[deedeetoo]

You are missing the point... For most breeders who DON'T show- they DON'T know what they are looking for to PICK a Champion letalone breed for one. Don't be fooled by the thought that a breeder can eyeball a dog and pick the perfect specimen- it takes TIME and KNOWLEDGE of what the breed standard is actually calling for in order to do this. How do you learn? Well, by showing!

Ok, you think breed standards are important and you need to show to know what breed standards are and to breed for them. I get that.

But you are missing the other point, which is that most people don't care about the breed standard. They don't care if a breeder is trying to improve the breed or achieve some defined standard. All they want is a dog that will be a good pet.

I understand that a byproduct of breeding to improve the standard will be healthy happy puppies that don't quite qualify for show. But that doesn't mean you can't get healthy happy puppies by breeding dogs that don't perfectly match the standard.

Here is my one real world example of someone getting a dog from a "reputable breeder" (i don't know why I forgot about this when I posted earlier today). My sister has two dogs of the same breed. One is 7 years old, perfectly healthy, and came from a backyard breeder. The dog has no papers and my sister has no idea who the dog's father is. A few years ago they decided to get another dog of the same breed and researched it this time. They found a "reputable breeder" who bred dogs for show. After learning how much this breeder was charging for puppies my sister changed her mind because it was too much. But then she found out that the breeder had one older dog that she had kept intending to show, but that dog was too shy and didn't show well. The breeder offered my sister this dog at a discount and my sister took it. This dog is very pretty, I'll admit, but he's afraid of his own shadow. When we go to visit, the older dog comes out to greet us with tail wagging, while the ex-show dog goes running under the dining room table to hide. I personally think the first dog is a better pet even though the second dog is much closer to the breed standard.

 

[princessmom29]

You are missing the point... For most breeders who DON'T show- they DON'T know what they are looking for to PICK a Champion letalone breed for one. Don't be fooled by the thought that a breeder can eyeball a dog and pick the perfect specimen- it takes TIME and KNOWLEDGE of what the breed standard is actually calling for in order to do this. How do you learn? Well, by showing!

I do agree- a Champion title may not be necessary, but for me- showing is. Perhaps a dog had his tail caught in the door and a kink is a disqualification for that breed. Okay- well, the breeder is still showing their other dogs, they are still learning the breed standard and working towards furthering the breed, but they choose to breed that nonChampionship dog because he IS a good representative of the standard. Okay- I get that.

And I have to laugh- I'm sorry. Have you ever paid to show an animal? Yeah, someone with championship lines might ask more for a puppy- they also work harder to achieve those puppies and pay more to produce those puppies! So yes, those puppies are worth more! Dog people have it rough- I get to go to a show, attend 12 rings, see twelve different judges, and hope to make Best of Breed and then go on to place in a Final- TWELVE times. Dog people- they travel all over to show their dogs and then get ONE chance to wow ONE judge- who might pass them up (and oftentimes does), but MIGHT send them up to become best of breed. Their show entry fees are usually cheaper then cat show fees, but they are still paying for gas, hotels, pet deposits in hotels, food, and all of the other miscellaneous nonsense that goes into attending shows. And then! They pack up and do it again and again as they months go by!

It's not cheap being a reputable breeder. If you expect a cheap pet from one- go somewhere else and take your chances. Me? Nope. I'll pay that extra pretty penny and know that for the lifetime of my pet, I have the support of a breeder who cares and one that actually understands the breed standard and bred to improve the breed, not just to make money as has been implied more then once on this thread.

there is no reason you cannot research and recognize the breed standard without spending thousands on dog shows. There is no reason you need to go and pay a judge to tell you what is a "champion" dog. All it takes is observing them over time in their natural environment, not a show ring. You are seriously telling me that there is no way to know what makes a good dog without paying a judge to tell you?? I don't think so. I think years of experience dealing with a dog on a daily basis is much more valuble than what a show judge who has had 5 minutes of contact with them has to say. Breeders who care about their animlas know them, their temprament and their health better than any shoe judge could wether they have ever taken them to a dog show or not. Yes i do believe that selling "champion" dogs is about money. They are looking for money to fund thier next quest for the titile which, as you pointed out does not come cheap.

 

[princessmom29]

But you are missing the other point, which is that most people don't care about the breed standard. They don't care if a breeder is trying to improve the breed or achieve some defined standard. All they want is a dog that will be a good pet.

.

this. exactly this. I don't care that my baby is not the perfect show doxie. SHe is the perfect pet for us, and THAT is what is important, a healthy, happy, well ajusted pet, She didn't come form "champion" parents but somehow she and all of her siblings turned out to be happy, healthy, and well adjusted. You can get a GREAT dog without the "champion" tacked on and a $1000 mark up.

 

[DisneyAprilFool]

Sorry, I had to giggle...

Okay, can you tell me what a hooded eye is? Can you tell me what this quote means, "The thrust of correct movement is seen when the rear pads are clearly exposed during rear extension. Rear feet do not reach upward toward the abdomen and there is no appearance of walking on the rear pasterns". I could pick through every breed standard and ask if you knew exactly what is expected for the breed standard and chances are- you would know what some things mean- you wouldn't know what a lot of the tiny things mean, but as a whole- that's what makes up a breed!

The reason why there are breed standards is so that breeds LOOK the way they are supposed to look. Otherwise, take a good look at petstores and the type of puppies they sell there- without the breed standards, you will get these huge French Bulldogs that look like mutant Bostons, you will get ChowChows that kinda look like Labs...

Qualiy is not cheap. But if you want to keep believing that- hey, that's fine.

 

[luvmy3]

Colonel potter cairn rescue is AMAZING and national!!!

Just wanted to point out that they do not adopt to families with children under 12, and they they rarely make exceptions but if they do its only for families with children over 8.
I can understand the need to sometimes have rules like this on an individual case basis, but when its a general rule, it almost forces families to look elsewhere and they may end up at pet stores and backyard breeders when looking for a specific breed.

 

[princessmom29]

Sorry, I had to giggle...

Okay, can you tell me what a hooded eye is? Can you tell me what this quote means, "The thrust of correct movement is seen when the rear pads are clearly exposed during rear extension. Rear feet do not reach upward toward the abdomen and there is no appearance of walking on the rear pasterns". I could pick through every breed standard and ask if you knew exactly what is expected for the breed standard and chances are- you would know what some things mean- you wouldn't know what a lot of the tiny things mean, but as a whole- that's what makes up a breed!

The reason why there are breed standards is so that breeds LOOK the way they are supposed to look. Otherwise, take a good look at petstores and the type of puppies they sell there- without the breed standards, you will get these huge French Bulldogs that look like mutant Bostons, you will get ChowChows that kinda look like Labs...

Qualiy is not cheap. But if you want to keep believing that- hey, that's fine.

A hooded eye is one with a drooping over hanging lid, like a hood. Essentially what you r quote is describing is the proper walking giat. The dog does not pull thier feet upward unnaturally and walks on the proper part of the pad, ensuring proper joint alignment. Sorry, but it is not rocket science, but a basic knowledge of anatomy. I still say that you don't need to pay thousands to get a healthy dog. I did, and didn't pay anywhere near that. I know of no one who has ever paid more that $800 for a purbred dog, and none of them have had the kind of horror stories you are describing. Everyone who I know who has purchased a dog form a breeder who cares has gotten a happy, healthy dog. The $800 was my sister's english bulldog who never had any health issues and outlived the breed life expectancy. She was almost 10 when she passed in her sleep.

 

[design_mom]

I was interested in adopting but most shelters have pit bulls, labs, or mixed big dogs. I need a small non shedding dog.

Keep looking (Petfinder, etc.) My mother adopted the *sweetest* Maltese-Poodle mix last spring. She's small and non-shedding. It took my mom several months to find the "right dog" but she was worth the wait!

 

[princessmom29]

Just wanted to point out that they do not adopt to families with children under 12, and they they rarely make exceptions but if they do its only for families with children over 8.
I can understand the need to sometimes have rules like this on an individual case basis, but when its a general rule, it almost forces families to look elsewhere and they may end up at pet stores and backyard breeders when looking for a specific breed.

We ran into this problem as well. NO ONE would adopt to us because of our DD's age.

 

[marie1203]

I am super confused about what people are really trying to say about shelter dogs. There is plenty of puppies at the shelter. I understand why if you have a family might be a risk getting an older dog. We have 3 dogs that came from the shelter as puppies and they have wonderful temperaments while it is true there are certain aspect of their personality that come with them puppies (that usually shows early as it would any puppy from a breeder or not)most molds to the family. With good socialization as puppies and really don't see how they will be a risk. And this goes for our rescues too. Some of there are the leader or the shy of the group but that goes with any litter.

 

[cnlmom]

As a rescuer, my first response is always, check your local shelter and it will remain my mantra.

Regarding breeders. There are good and bad with any industry. However in the pet industry it is unfortunate that the number of bad breeders far outweighs the good breeders. And the ones that are bad are HORID. I personally have been in a "backyard breeders" home and rescued hundreds, yes you read that right, hundreds of animals out of a standard size home on a half acre lot. Many people were shocked. What they did is ran ads in the newspapers for several different small breeds under different peoples names and the deal was, you called, she gave you the address of a friends house, but never told you it was not her home. The potential buyer of the animal would go to visit with the animal, think they were visiting its home and feel things were on the up and up. Why wouldn't they, they were seeing a nice older woman in a clean tidy home with just a few animals in it. Meanwhile she had dozens of different breeds kept in cages in her basement at her real home. She ran this scam for years.

Multiply the number of bad breeders, which again, far outweighs the number of good, by the number of animals they breed...which runs in the thousands with even smaller scale operations and that is a lot of animals that are simply being bred for profit....not temperment, not beauty, not health....simply for the all mighty dollar.

The public can be guilable....I have a co-worker who purchased a Boston Terrier puppy from a "breeder". I do not personally know this breeder, but what I do know is that she took what was a defect in the coat and made it into a positive. Told my friend that it was rare for this breed to have a brown splotch. My friend thinking she got something special, paid extra to purchase this particular puppy with what esentially was a "defect" with that breed. What should have happened was that partiular puppy should have been less for the "defect" in the coat. It is all in how things are presented. Buyer beware...my friend did not do her homework and was taken to the cleaners price wise....that said, she loves her little dog and she really is a sweet little boston.


Like I said in my previous post.....anyone worth their salt, be it a breeder or a rescuer should interview you, ask questions about your lifestyle, ask what you expect in a dog, discuss the breed with you, help you choose a pet that will work with your family and situation. Quite often, what people think they want really is not what they want once they learn the particulars of that breed.

If they seem more interested in telling you what you want to hear or on simply making the sale....walk away.

Shelters have ALL different kinds of animals, big, small, purebred, mutts you name it they get it in....That said, you may have to be patient and wait for the right animal. Getting a pet is a lifetime commitment...take your time and make the right choice. Nothing is worse than picking a dog on a whim or out of guilt and it not working out because you were not prepared. This is why so many animals are in the shelters in the first place. (well that and spay/neutering is simply not done enough...but that is another soapbox).
Be realistic about your expectation, limitations, and lifestyle....get a dog for who you are, not who you wish you were. What i mean by that is don't get a Aussie cause you like to think of yourself as the outdoorsey type who will hike up a mountain when the reality is you spend your weekends chanel surfling and putzing at the local coffee shop......Your Aussie will be miserable and so will you when it tears up your house....you would be more suited for maybe a pug.

Regarding not being able to adopt a pet from a rescue because you have children under 12....Most municipal animal control shelters have really no criteria with ages and a good rescue group will not rule you out simply because of your childs age, UNLESS it is because that particular breed is not as suited for children as others would be. My rescue group is all breed and we match the animal to the family. We adopt to people with infants, toddlers, preschoolers, on up to the elderly. if the dog matches the family and vice versa that is good enough for me. We try to find the yes...which means we realize if rescues make it to difficult to adopt, people will be frusterated and go to petstores and breeders and I would rather them get a great rescue. That said, I will not knowingly put a dog in a bad situation, be it the people should not own an animal or I know this particular animal will not fit into their expectations or lifestyle.

 

[cheekymonkey]

We ran into this problem as well. NO ONE would adopt to us because of our DD's age.

We had similar issues. Our youngest child is 5.

 

[princessmom29]

We had similar issues. Our youngest child is 5.

It is sad but true, even of local animal control. They never asked anything beyond ages of children. They had no other basis upon which to make a decision. I was told it was for liability reasons. They don't wnt to be liable for a child's injury or the child injuring a dog.

 

[princessmom29]

Regarding not being able to adopt a pet from a rescue because you have children under 12....Most municipal animal control shelters have really no criteria with ages and a good rescue group will not rule you out simply because of your childs age, UNLESS it is because that particular breed is not as suited for children as others would be. My rescue group is all breed and we match the animal to the family. We adopt to people with infants, toddlers, preschoolers, on up to the elderly. if the dog matches the family and vice versa that is good enough for me. We try to find the yes...which means we realize if rescues make it to difficult to adopt, people will be frusterated and go to petstores and breeders and I would rather them get a great rescue. That said, I will not knowingly put a dog in a bad situation, be it the people should not own an animal or I know this particular animal will not fit into their expectations or lifestyle.

This has not been my experience. NO ONE locally wanted to hear anything past ages of people in the house. Once they heard 6 year old, they said no. They had no other information to base their decision on. That included animal control.

 

[cnlmom]

I am sorry...that makes me so sad that a family would be denied a pet simply because they have young children and no other reason. That is so unnecessary. There are many wonderful pets that need a home that would be great with a child.
I know many municipal animal controls that have zero rules on ages.

 

[Swalphin]

Please do not buy a puppy on line or from a pet store. If you could see the conditions these loving souls are forced to exist in it would break you heart. Kept in cages their entire lives forced to breed over and over. Never seeing the light of day, never knowing the tender touch of a good human. Never being allowed to be the companions they were meant to be , please don't do it.

I know you want a dog but honestly going without would be better than supporting these puppy mills. Best of luck to you and your family.

 

[kacaju]

Here is my one real world example of someone getting a dog from a "reputable breeder" (i don't know why I forgot about this when I posted earlier today). My sister has two dogs of the same breed. One is 7 years old, perfectly healthy, and came from a backyard breeder. The dog has no papers and my sister has no idea who the dog's father is. A few years ago they decided to get another dog of the same breed and researched it this time. They found a "reputable breeder" who bred dogs for show. After learning how much this breeder was charging for puppies my sister changed her mind because it was too much. But then she found out that the breeder had one older dog that she had kept intending to show, but that dog was too shy and didn't show well. The breeder offered my sister this dog at a discount and my sister took it. This dog is very pretty, I'll admit, but he's afraid of his own shadow. When we go to visit, the older dog comes out to greet us with tail wagging, while the ex-show dog goes running under the dining room table to hide. I personally think the first dog is a better pet even though the second dog is much closer to the breed standard.

Buy beware...Your sister bought the dog KNOWING it was *too shy* I am willing to bet if your sister bought another pup at *full price* your story would be different.

 

[Swimalie]

Great thread to OP!!!! Going through the same thing right now... SOOO....does anyoneee out there know of any Westie or Cairn breeders in the LI/NY/Tri State area??? TIA!

My in-laws had a Carin. After a year, the dog started to smell and was kicked outside only to come in for feedings. He would leave the house and the smell would stick around. I know if they had brushed him and cleaned him, the smell would have been less but that experience turned me off from those dogs. The dog lived about 9 years but died after a stoke which took his sight, heading and balance. It was a rough life for a dog living outside.