Buying a puppy online???

[luvmy3]

My in-laws had a Carin. After a year, the dog started to smell and was kicked outside only to come in for feedings. He would leave the house and the smell would stick around. I know if they had brushed him and cleaned him, the smell would have been less but that experience turned me off from those dogs. The dog lived about 9 years but died after a stoke which took his sight, heading and balance. It was a rough life for a dog living outside.

What a sad story, that poor dog. I have a Cairn and yes she has an odor (not always just after we spend time outdoors) but I keep her clean as possible, I couldn't inagine forcing her to live outside, if it ever came to that (which it wouldn't) i'd try to find her a home where people wouldn't do that. If the dog developed an odor after a year, it may have had a bacterial infection.
No offense to you, but your inlaws shouldn't be pet owners.


I saw this in the community board and thought you all would like to see it. Dogs rescued from a puppy mill and placed in shelters in NY.
http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/story?section=news/local/northern_suburbs&id=8041486

 

[tammymacb]

A friend of mine decided to go the rescue route after losing his 13 year old dachshund. He's found a rescue that has a rescued puppy mill cairn who recently had puppies. He's getting one of the puppies. He also has small children.

He has to fly out to the rescue ( or drive around 18 hours round trip ) to pick his puppy up. He's doing it because he really wants the puppy and he doesn't want to buy. Many people would not chose this route because it's work/time/effort. My opinion is if you don't want to expend work, time and effort, don't get a dog in the first place.

The reality is NO good breeder will simply mail you a puppy without meeting you and having YOU sign a contract regarding your puppy's long term care including spay neuter ( if the puppy hasn't been deemed show quality ) and returning the puppy to the breeder *at any time* if you can't keep it.

There is enough public knowledge now about puppy mills that I have a hard time believing adults with good sense still consider this route.

Op, you can certainly adopt the dog you seek. If you put in the time and effort. Or you could buy from a reputable breeder if that is the direction you choose. But, buying a dog sight unseen is simply sentencing another dog to live in the life long cruelty that is breeding puppies for pure profit. It's cruel and heartbreaking. I hope you can find another way to bring love into your family.

 

[tlbwriter]

The reason why there are breed standards is so that breeds LOOK the way they are supposed to look. Otherwise, take a good look at petstores and the type of puppies they sell there- without the breed standards, you will get these huge French Bulldogs that look like mutant Bostons, you will get ChowChows that kinda look like Labs...

Qualiy is not cheap. But if you want to keep believing that- hey, that's fine.

I think the issue is that for you, quality means "the dog looks the way this breed is supposed to look." But not everyone cares about that. As long as it's not a health issue, I don't care if my dog is shorter than the breed standard, or has an off-color coat.

For example, the breed standard for my dog says the nose should be "entirely black except in light-coloured hounds when it may be brown or liver." So, would my dog, who is not light-colored, be undesirable as a pet simply if she had a brown nose instead of a black one? Her appropriate tail is described as "when moving, stern carried well up and curving gently, sabre-fashion, never curling or gay." I don't know what a gay tail is , but if her tail curled in a non-sabre-fashion, would that mean she was undesirable as a pet?

 

[dixonismydog]

Just my 2 cents....we have bought 2 dogs online......and they are both SUPER!!!! Couldn't have done better, if I had purchased them locally. DO YOUR RESEARCH.....is the advice I have for you. I even went as far as calling the humane societies close to their area, to see if they knew who these breeders were, or if they had any dealings with them. I called a lot of people actually.....just checking up on them. I also had a good feeling about them.....trust your instincts.

 

[mjkacmom]

I think the issue is that for you, quality means "the dog looks the way this breed is supposed to look." But not everyone cares about that. As long as it's not a health issue, I don't care if my dog is shorter than the breed standard, or has an off-color coat.

For example, the breed standard for my dog says the nose should be "entirely black except in light-coloured hounds when it may be brown or liver." So, would my dog, who is not light-colored, be undesirable as a pet simply if she had a brown nose instead of a black one? Her appropriate tail is described as "when moving, stern carried well up and curving gently, sabre-fashion, never curling or gay." I don't know what a gay tail is , but if her tail curled in a non-sabre-fashion, would that mean she was undesirable as a pet?

But it can be a health issue. Not only are good breeders breeding for looks, they are breeding for health. They want to know if previous litters ended up with health problems down the road. Most backyard breeders, even if they are a nice family, hooking Fido up with the dog down the block, aren't doing health checks on these dogs.

I used to have a min-pin (bought at a puppy store in my early 20's - I had no clue about puppy mills). Turns out she was healthy. When I was out with her, more than once, people would approach me and ask if she was neutered, because they had male min-pins, and thought it would be cool to breed them and sell the puppies.

 

[tlbwriter]

But it can be a health issue.

That's why I specifically said I don't care if it's NOT a health issue. I realize there are issues that are related to a dog's health. Nose color is not one of them.

 

[janey99]

But it can be a health issue. Not only are good breeders breeding for looks, they are breeding for health. They want to know if previous litters ended up with health problems down the road. Most backyard breeders, even if they are a nice family, hooking Fido up with the dog down the block, aren't doing health checks on these dogs.

I used to have a min-pin (bought at a puppy store in my early 20's - I had no clue about puppy mills). Turns out she was healthy. When I was out with her, more than once, people would approach me and ask if she was neutered, because they had male min-pins, and thought it would be cool to breed them and sell the puppies.

Thanks for posting this - I think some people are not realizing that breed standards in many cases are not simply visual items - they can be indicative of physiological issues as well, and physiological issues can lead to health problems.

I don't know what a gay tail is either, but I do know that some breeds can be born with a kink in thier tail, which is not the breed standard. You can think this is purely a visual fault, or you can realize that the tail is actually part of the spine, and pathology in the end of the spine where it is visible may be indicative of additional issues in the "backbone" (ie supportive) area of the spine.

The standards, including the visual markers, are intended to identify a dog that is a perfect physical specimen - any deviation from that can have knock on effects for the dogs health.

The problem is, most nice families just looking for a dog don't know what aspects of the standard are purely visual and which can be indicative of health/physiological problems. The "backyard breeder" is just going to tell you what they want you to hear to make the sale (anyone ever hear of "rare white boxers"?), and googling phrases from breed standard documents is not going to get you very far if you're not experienced in actually applying that info to a living animal.

Jane

 

[jodifla]

So, adopting a shelter dog is pretty much THE SAME as getting a dog from a puppy mill, it's just one step removed, since most of these shelter dogs were bred by puppy mills. I don't get how that doesn't actually end up supporting the puppy mills.

Again, the problem with this is that you don't know the background of any shelter dog. You MIGHT get lucky, or not. It's a gamble. And it seems like 50 percent of the dogs have pit bull in them, which are prohibited by many local communities.

I agree that lots of the rescues/shelters I've come in contact with STUPIDLY deem us "unsuitable" because we don't have a fenced yard and we have a 9-year-old. So they are exacerbating their own problem.

 

[tammymacb]

So, adopting a shelter dog is pretty much THE SAME as getting a dog from a puppy mill, it's just one step removed, since most of these shelter dogs were bred by puppy mills. I don't get how that doesn't actually end up supporting the puppy mills.

You can not possibly be serious.

I'll try to type slowly for you if it helps. By NOT buying a puppy from a mill, the millers no longer have an income. Then there is no reason to breed more dogs to end up in shelters. How's that?

 

[tammymacb]

I have to say. ( And I know the warning is coming ) that last statement was possibly the stupidest thing I've ever read on the Dis. And I've read some stupid things.

 

[RachaelA]

So, adopting a shelter dog is pretty much THE SAME as getting a dog from a puppy mill, it's just one step removed, since most of these shelter dogs were bred by puppy mills. I don't get how that doesn't actually end up supporting the puppy mills.

Are you serious?????

Yeah the puppy mill dogs end up in the shelters... because the puppy mill owners drop them off there when they can't sell them. The shelter isn't buying the dogs. The mills are losing money not making it....

 

[tlbwriter]

You can not possibly be serious.

I'll try to type slowly for you if it helps.

Hey, being rude is a really good way to sway others. Awesome job there.

So, here's a question... if the dogs in shelters come from puppy mills, and dogs from a puppy mill are inferior to those from reputable breeders because they will have health issues, why would a puppy mill dog who ended up at a shelter be any better?

(Disclaimer - I would never buy from a puppy mill, and I have no problem with getting an animal from a shelter. But I'm seeing a lack of logic in this argument.)

 

[princessmom29]

Thanks for posting this - I think some people are not realizing that breed standards in many cases are not simply visual items - they can be indicative of physiological issues as well, and physiological issues can lead to health problems.

I don't know what a gay tail is either, but I do know that some breeds can be born with a kink in thier tail, which is not the breed standard. You can think this is purely a visual fault, or you can realize that the tail is actually part of the spine, and pathology in the end of the spine where it is visible may be indicative of additional issues in the "backbone" (ie supportive) area of the spine.

The standards, including the visual markers, are intended to identify a dog that is a perfect physical specimen - any deviation from that can have knock on effects for the dogs health.

The problem is, most nice families just looking for a dog don't know what aspects of the standard are purely visual and which can be indicative of health/physiological problems. The "backyard breeder" is just going to tell you what they want you to hear to make the sale (anyone ever hear of "rare white boxers"?), and googling phrases from breed standard documents is not going to get you very far if you're not experienced in actually applying that info to a living animal.

Jane

I would not consider this a purely visual flaw as it has to do with the bone structure of the dog. I would think any reasoable person would know the difference? If you research the breed you find out what specific things to look for as markers for potential health problems. You don't have to be a fancy breeder to do that. It just takes some reading. For instace, one of the major "things to look for" in doxies is mixing of coat patterns. A double dapple or dapple mixed with piebald can result in a pigmentation based alopecia because of a defective gene carried with the dapple gene. It can also result in hearing and vision issues. You should never buy a mixed pattern dog without evidence of careful genetic screening. I knoe this becuase I took the time to read, not becuase I show dogs or spend thousands on them. It really isn't that hard to do the legwork.

 

[tammymacb]

Hey, being rude is a really good way to sway others. Awesome job there.

I'm sorry. But stupid is stupid.

Would you have had the same problem if the poster said, "Well if people would stop having children, then pedophiles would have no one to molest? It's the stupid parents that bring these kids into the world who are the problem.."?

 

[tlbwriter]

I'm sorry. But stupid is stupid.

Would you have had the same problem if the poster said, "Well if people would stop having children, then pedophiles would have no one to molest? It's the stupid parents that bring these kids into the world who are the problem.."?

All I'm saying is, if you're trying to inform people, being rude is ineffective.

Do you have an answer for the question in my post?

 

[tammymacb]

My answer would be, if you don't care about the standard/health issues that your dog may have. ( And many people don't hence the proliferation of backyard breeders and mills ) then at least save a life instead of placing generations more of these animals in prison.

 

[robinb]

I have to say. ( And I know the warning is coming ) that last statement was possibly the stupidest thing I've ever read on the Dis. And I've read some stupid things.

So, where do you think the "purebred" and designer dogs in the shelters and rescues come from?

 

[tammymacb]

Hey, being rude is a really good way to sway others. Awesome job there.

BTW, my DH would tell you that sarcasm is the lowest form of wit. However, I don't really care.

 

[tammymacb]

So, where do you think the "purebred" and designer dogs in the shelters and rescues come from?

OMG. Really. I know exactly where they come from. From irresponsible people. Lets make some more excuses for them, shall we?

BTW, "designer dogs" are nothing more than mutts. Mixed breeds. Lets call them what they are. And, I'd have far less problem owning a mutt then pretending I had a *designer dog"

 

[tlbwriter]

My answer would be, if you don't care about the standard/health issues that your dog may have. ( And many people don't hence the proliferation of backyard breeders and mills ) then at least save a life instead of placing generations more of these animals in prison.

But do you not see the issue here? You're saying we should care about those issues, should care very much about them, but then should ignore them. Don't buy from backyard breeders! Their dogs are unhealthy! Unless you find one in a shelter, then they're fine! Don't buy a dog of unknown or nonstandard parentage because there's no telling what horrible things are hidden in its DNA! Unless you find it in a shelter, then it's fine!