Bush Will Win...

[lucky_bunni]

Ironically, the U.S. was one of the founding countries to support to Olympic Truce being brought back. Now we're not even trying to abide by something we started to begin with - just another reason we look like giant hypocrites to the rest of the world.

 

[Elwood Blues]

Lucky and Laura.

How do you propose the US honor the Olympic Truce when

1) we aren't fighting another country

and

2) the "enemy" would still try to kill our soldiers?

 

[Laura]

Originally posted by Elwood Blues
How do you propose the US honor the Olympic Truce when

1) we aren't fighting another country

and

2) the "enemy" would still try to kill our soldiers?

You aren't understanding the concept. Or you don't want to.

1) It doesn't matter that we aren't fighting another country. Why must you harp on this?

2) The US can have a cease-fire for 16 days and not fight the insurgents. It won't stop them from suicide bombing anyone either way.

What's so hard to understand about peace?

 

[Laura]

Wanted to add a thought, or a worry, actually.

What makes anyone think that the Iraqi government will stop fighting off rebels/insurgents? The government is US-supported, as will be the upcoming elections, basically. The Iraqi people are used to being lied to and deceived. What makes anyone think that they will trust the government spawned by the US occupation, even when Iraqis vote?

I'm afraid that because the gov't has been founded by the US (the "enemy") that many Iraqis will never ever accept it. I know that the USA isn't the enemy of Iraq, but it sure must be hard for the Iraqis to feel the same way.

 

[WillyJ]

Before the invasion Bush said we were going in and disarm Saddam and then let the Iraqi's govern themselves. . .

Then this past Feb. after Saddam was captured and no WMD's had been found, Iraqi cleric Ali al-Sistani called for free elections. . and George "Mr. Democracy" Bush said no way. . .

Now he says there'll be elections there this January and you believe it Elwood?





Laura has it right. . . Bush has created so much animosity towards our country that the Iraqi people won't accept any kind of government we have anything to do with setting up. .

 

[Elwood Blues]

Originally posted by Laura

You aren't understanding the concept. Or you don't want to.

1) It doesn't matter that we aren't fighting another country. Why must you harp on this?

2) The US can have a cease-fire for 16 days and not fight the insurgents. It won't stop them from suicide bombing anyone either way.

What's so hard to understand about peace?

I understand the concept completely but what you don't seem to understand is that the insurgents don't care about the Olympic Truce. So if they don't care and will continue to attack us (and their own people), I'd rather have soliders fight back than have a cease fire only to be killed. What's so hard to understand about that?

I understand peace. Peace is achieved through complete victory over the enemy.

 

[GaryAdams]

its funny, didnt the US troops pull back on the 13th of aug from Najaf?
i guess when the US pulled back and ordered a cease-fire,that it doesnt count?
i guess the day of the opening of the OLYMPICS doesnt count to the anti-bush crowd?
seems to me a pull back on that day would mean they are respecting the truce?

Oh wait, i guess that kidnapping of a journalist is upholding the truce?
nevermind the shelling of the green zone by insurgents,they are following the truce?
heres another 1, i guess the roadside bomb that killed a U.S. soldier in baghdad doesnt matter either,its an olympic truce?

never mind the Ukrainian patrol commander who was killed on saturday in Suwayrah.

hey we can also forget about the Dutch military policeman who was also killed saturday in Rumaythah.

dont let the truth cloud your judgement people, the US pulled back,it was only after the peace talks between the Iraqi National Conference,and Shiite militants including cleric Muqtada al-Sadr failed that the US again engaged them.

keep your heads buried in the sand,it only goes to show you really have no clue about the things you post.
try checking the facts before you make claims, the US did try a cease-fire, but the otherside didnt want it.
get off your high horse and learn the facts.

no wonder Kerry has so many sheep following him, people dont want to hear the facts.

 

[Laura]

Originally posted by Elwood Blues
I understand the concept completely but what you don't seem to understand is that the insurgents don't care about the Olympic Truce. So if they don't care and will continue to attack us (and their own people), I'd rather have soliders fight back than have a cease fire only to be killed. What's so hard to understand about that?

I understand peace. Peace is achieved through complete victory over the enemy.

Nice try. Ever heard of Gandhi? It isn't all about fighting back.

But my problem is that the attempt to keep the truce wasn't made.

 

[Viking]

Originally posted by Elwood Blues

I understand peace. Peace is achieved through complete victory over the enemy.

That was also one of Hitler's favourite mottos

So why did you transfer control before that goal was reached

 

[Laura]

Originally posted by GaryAdams
its funny, didnt the US troops pull back on the 13th of aug from Najaf?
i guess when the US pulled back and ordered a cease-fire,that it doesnt count?
i guess the day of the opening of the OLYMPICS doesnt count to the anti-bush crowd?
seems to me a pull back on that day would mean they are respecting the truce?

What, we're only fighting in Najaf? I must have missed something somewhere. Some "facts" ya got there, Gary.

On August 13, 2004
"Asked why U.S. forces were not observing a cease-fire for the duration of the Olympic Games in Athens, Powell said the idea was a noble one but that 'the world does not stop entirely for the Olympics.'"
http://www.news-leader.com/today/0814-Powelltake-156056.html

On August 14, 2004
"The 16-day truce, however, is clearly not being observed by Washington, which has troops that have been fighting major fronts in Afghanistan and Iraq since shortly after the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks."
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2004/olympics/2004/08/15/bc.oly.athens.olympictr.ap/

 

[auntpolly]

Originally posted by Elwood Blues


I understand peace. Peace is achieved through complete victory over the enemy.

I know this <i>sounds</i> like a Gandhi quote Laura, but I'm pretty sure it was MLK who said it....Right after he said, "One day we must come to see that peace is not merely a distant goal we seek, but that it is a means by which we arrive at that goal. We must pursue peaceful ends through peaceful means."

Elwood Blues, you have a career waiting for you as a GWB speechwriter -- such a way with words!

 

[Elwood Blues]

Originally posted by Laura
Nice try. Ever heard of Gandhi? It isn't all about fighting back.

Yes. Of course I have.

If you want to stop fighting back, that's your choice.

Maybe you should pass that message onto the insurgents too because I'm pretty sure that once they stop fighting, we will as well.

 

[Elwood Blues]

Originally posted by Viking
That was also one of Hitler's favourite mottos

It is? I looked (only a little) but I can't find a reference to that. Care to help a poor guy out?

So why did you transfer control before that goal was reached

I don't know. My guess is so that the Iraqis can work to winning the peace over *thier* enemy.

 

[GaryAdams]

laura,
can you be a little clearer on your post?

are you trying to say that even when troops are being attacked and killed they should just not fire back or protect themselfs?

funny how in the SI link you provided it didnt say anywhere that the insurgents signed the cease-fire?

hey this is kinda neat,this is from your first link,

On the negotiating front, Powell said representatives of al-Sadr and the Iraqi interim government are talking about a cease-fire in Najaf.
The United States wants the fighting to end, but is deferring to the Iraqi government, he said.
The U.S. military has said it had suspended operations against al-Sadr's militiamen, who are holed up in the city's cemetery and the Imam Ali shrine.

funny that paragraphs from your link sure sounds like the US was trying to have a cease-fire?

again,i guess the dutch soldier who was killed sat doesnt count because the the insurgents are following the cease-fire?

http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/world/archives/2004/08/16/2003198994

hear yea go, how about this soldier? i guess the people who planted the explosive device that killed him are following a cease-fire?

http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/news/local/9410354.htm?1c

i guess this journalist doesnt count either? im sure who ever kidnapped him signed a cease-fire for the olympics?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3569234.stm


i guess under your little palm tree if someone is attacked they shouldnt do anything about it?

in the real world,it takes 2 sides to have a cease-fire,thats kinda hard when 1 side wont.

 

[Laura]

Gary, apparently you don't understand English if my post wasn't clear. We're not just fighting in Najaf or Iraq. There's this little country called Afghanistan--ever heard of it?

And the cease-fire in Najaf has nothing to do with the Olympic Truce. The US isn't even trying to abide by it. It hasn't intended to. Sure, if we'd said, "no more fighting during the Olympics" and then boom the insurgents attack, I can understand that the troops are going to defend themselves. No I don't like it, but it's understandable. You can argue that Iraq doesn't count, I suppose. Blair doesn't think it counts but he signed the Olympic Truce. Hypocritical to say so, IMO.

Oh well, I guess it's useless to argue with people who don't know what they're talking about. Bye

 

[beattyfamily]

RNC!!!

I can't wait! I'm so glad I won't miss it while at WDW!!!

Funny how for at least the 2 weeks before, all you heard was non-stop coverage on the DNC, but here we are 2 weeks before the RNC and nothing on the TV or here. Hummm, I wonder why?

I heard that Reagan's other son will speakand Elizabeth Dole too but here's a list I saw of the keynote speakers:

Monday, August 30, 2004
- Mayor Michael Bloomberg
- Former Mayor Rudy Giuliani
- Senator John McCain (R-AZ)

Tuesday, August 31, 2004
- First Lady Laura Bush
- Secretary of Education Rod Paige
- Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger

Wednesday, September 1, 2004
- Mrs. Lynne Cheney
- Vice President Dick Cheney
- Senator Zell Miller (D-GA)

Thursday, September 2, 2004
- Governor George Pataki
- President George W. Bush

Can't wait!

 

[GaryAdams]

funny how you keep forgetting those people who were killed this weekend?

it must be nice to be able to just gloss over the fact that people died?

just forget the fact that even though france signed the truce 1 of their citizens was kidnapped.

Oh well, I guess it's useless to argue with people who don't know what they're talking about. Bye

dont worry i feel the same way about some people who wont see the big picture,they are only worried about keeping their head in the sand.
no matter what you say,the US has tried to have a cease-fire,but when they get attacked they defend themselfs.

funny you should bring up Afghanistan did you realize this is the first time in a few years they have been able to send people to the olympics?

seems their old government wouldnt let anyone go to the olympics.silly isnt it?

 

[shortbun]

Originally posted by GaryAdams
funny how you keep forgetting those people who were killed this weekend?

it must be nice to be able to just gloss over the fact that people died?

Glad someone is finally getting it that people are dying over
our President's personal war with Saddam Hussein. This is
what we've been trying to tell you for months now and it's
finally sinking in. GREAT!

We have Saddam in custody now. If we were
out of Iraq, there would be no one to fight . Had we gone into
Iraq with a plan, good intelligence, a realistic idea of what the
goals were and how we would achieve them.... this taking of Saddam would have been quick and over.

AHHH, as my great grandmother used to say to me,"If wishes were horses, then beggars could ride." The rush to war, the killing of thousands of innocents- I hate it but some of you seem to relish in it.

EB-Your blood thirsty statements repulse me. You claim to care about the people getting killed - as long as they are Americans.

 

[Elwood Blues]

Originally posted by shortbun


EB-Your blood thirsty statements repulse me. You claim to care about the people getting killed - as long as they are Americans.

Bloodthirsty? WTH are you talking about??

Do I care that the insurgents die? Well I don't want to see anyone die but that's the choice they make by fighting. And I am saddened by the deaths of our soldiers just as I am over the deaths of innocent Iraqis. But my heart does not weep for those that choose death when all they want to do is kill others (both sides) and a chance for real freedom is right in front of them through peaceful actions.

 

[Chicago526]

Originally posted by Tiziminchac
Ok, this is just my opinion (prediction) of what I think will happen. I have no facts to base this on. But, I think Bush will win reelection. And I think he'll have Bill and Hillary to thank. I still think the Clintons are the most powerful democrats out there. Whether you like them or not, they are still very popular. I think Hillary has eyes on the White House. If Kerry wins she can't run in 2008. No one runs against the incumbent. But if Bush wins, well, it's open season in 2008. Personally, I don't think the Clinton's really want Kerry to win. They probably think he can't win. And it's just fine with them. They may even do something to undermine his campaign, behind the scenes of course. Bush will win and four years from now Hillary will run. Who knows, it may be Bush against Clinton again. This time Jeb and Hillary!
This is just my opinion. It may sound stupid. And you may wonder why you wasted your time reading it. But I feel that way a lot on the CB. So now were even!

I haven't read the whole thread and am just replying to the OP.

While I agree that the Clinton's have their fingers crossed that Kerry won't win, thus allowing Hillary to run in '08, I also don't think that they will do anything to undermine Kerry, either. The political and PR blow-back if they are "caught" would forever taint any further political goals Hillary may have. Plus the DNC would take a dim view of it, too.