Bush will veto attempts to stop Dubai based company run our ports

Dawn, if this helps, that conservative Savage guy says if this goes through, the War on Terror is a sham. However, Reilly, like you, is waiting to see which way the wind blows.

I just hope, the legislators that are against the UAE port acquisition aren't just sounding off in hopes of a nice campaign contribution before they change their minds. We'll see.
 
Tiziminchac said:
By the way, isn't Dubai where Michael Jackson lives now? Do you think they will try and sneak him back in through our ports! :scared:

I think that they just threw him out. I guess they don't like entitled deadbeats.
 
Citing the Heritage Foundation for an unbiased assessment of trade policy is akin to citing the Drudge Report for an unbiased assessment of immigration policy. :) Why don't we just go to Geraldo for a neutral and solid factbase? wink wink
 
momof2inPA said:
Dawn, if this helps, that conservative Savage guy says if this goes through, the War on Terror is a sham. However, Reilly, like you, is waiting to see which way the wind blows.

I just hope, the legislators that are against the UAE port acquisition aren't just sounding off in hopes of a nice campaign contribution before they change their minds. We'll see.

I am not surprised that Michael Savage would say that, in fact, it is what I would expect. I have trouble attaching the term "conservative" to him. He is more of an isolationist and reactionary. This has nothing to do with which way the wind is blowing. Given the information that is actually available and being presented in the media, I think that anyone who is making a firm decision, isn't deciding with the facts but with emotion.
 

DawnCt1 said:
I haven't heard enough from the side that supports the purchase yet. I need to hear more to make that decision.

Such as:

Treasury Secretary John Snow:

"The deal was reviewed and passed by the U.S. Treasury Department’s Committee on Foreign Investment (including Defense and Homeland Security representation)." [Committee on Foreign Investment = a secret panel that we can't know anything about]

"Noteworthy is the fact that Treasury Secretary John Snow, chair of that committee, is the former head of CSX Corp., which owned and operated SeaLand and CSX World Terminals, a port terminal operating company. In fact, DP World had previously acquired CSX World Terminals."

http://logisticstoday.com/displayStory.asp?sNO=7729


And David Sanborn:

"Global ports operator DP World today welcomed news that one of its senior executives, Dave Sanborn, has been nominated by US President George W. Bush to serve as Maritime Administrator a key transportation appointment reporting directly to Norman Mineta the Secretary of Transportation and Cabinet Member."

http://www.ameinfo.com/76375.html



As usual for W's Administration, it is all about croniism. If you follow the cronies, it will lead you to the money which is what W is all about = making $$$$ for his cronies.



And the criticism is not racism - it has to do with the facts including:

UAE's history as an operational and financial base for the hijackers who carried out the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001. Besides the fact that two of the September 11, 2001, hijackers were from the UAE. Most of the hijackers received money channeled through various sources based in the UAE, according to the Justice Department and the 9/11 Commission.

UAE was an important transfer point for shipments of smuggled nuclear components sent to Iran, North Korea and Libya by a Pakistani scientist.

DP World is not just based in UAE - it is a state-owned business.
 
punkin said:
Translation: Bush's handlers haven't told me what I should think about it yet, so I have to wait for tomorrow's press release before I can answer that question.

Now that's not fair. Why just today the CIA asssured Bush, Cheney, Rice and Rumsfeld that there are no terrorists in the UAE nor were there any on planes that slammed into the Twin Towers and the Pentagon. Additionally, the CIA guaranteed that the UAE has NEVER EVER funded ANY terrorist organizations like Hamas. :thumbsup2

Thank God for George Bush! Who else will look after the best interest of America's CEOs!?!

Chubster
 
Caradana said:
Citing the Heritage Foundation for an unbiased assessment of trade policy is akin to citing the Drudge Report for an unbiased assessment of immigration policy. :) Why don't we just go to Geraldo for a neutral and solid factbase? wink wink

I'm not a big fan of the Heritage Foundation, but where is the fallacy in the facts from that paragraph? According to that information, a U.S. company would not be permitted to operate a port in Dubai. Why would we allow them to operate one here? Is it your opinion that the UAE is a free trading nation, and on what information are you basing that opinion? Or is it your opinion that we should be free-traders, regardless of any other country's policies, even to the possilbe detriment of national security?

If you look at the U.S. State Department website, it will corroborate the facts presented in the Heritage Foundation UAE website, and it also mentions that foreign companies are forbidden from bidding on UAE government contracts. The UAE has also apparently had problems with worker's rights abuses. Change your mind yet, Dana? You would never admit it.
 
I am a very big supporter of our President also but anything that Jimmy Carter believes is a good idea, I have a problem with.

I do wonder how many strings are being pulled behind the scenes on this deal however, it makes me wonder if President Logan isn't the only one with his back against the wall.... :scratchin
 
[Committee on Foreign Investment = a secret panel that we can't know anything about]
For a "secret" committee, they sure issue a lot of public comments about the subject of foreign investment...

"Noteworthy is the fact that Treasury Secretary John Snow, chair of that committee, is the former head of CSX Corp., which owned and operated SeaLand and CSX World Terminals, a port terminal operating company. In fact, DP World had previously acquired CSX World Terminals."
So Snow used to work for a company that was bought out by DP. I'm not sure how that implies a conflict of interest with this purchase? Would he benefit from DP's purchase of P&O? Unless he is against the deal, that's proof of "cronie-ism"? Ditto for Sanborn... once he was appointed, anything less than negative views of DP on the part of the USA is automatic proof of "cronie-ism"?

UAE's history as an operational and financial base for the hijackers who carried out the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001.
The attackers used a bank in the country. They also used credit cards issued by US banks. To my knowledge, there's no evidence that the UAE bank(s) were aware of the nature of the transactions... for that matter they just as well could have used a Swiss bank.

Besides the fact that two of the September 11, 2001, hijackers were from the UAE.
Yep, and Richard Reid (AKA "The Shoe Bomber") was from the UK... so are we supposed to black-ball businesses from that nation?

UAE was an important transfer point for shipments of smuggled nuclear components sent to Iran, North Korea and Libya by a Pakistani scientist.
What evidence is there was envolvement or complacency on the part of the UAE when it comes to these transactions? What does this have to do with how the P&O, owned by DP, would operate the ports they hold the contracts to?

I have a Sryian-born friend who lived here for several years and then moved back to the middle-east to be closer to family. He chose the UAE. It's a "crossroads" in that part of the world. It's got the most "liberal" government, is a "boom-town" in that part of the world, and is a magnet for people from all Arab countries.

If people want to argue against the deal... How about some concrete examples of how the operation of the ports might be directly affected by the DP ownership of P&O? What are the specific dangers? How might a terrorist organization be able to leverage the ownership and bypass the security operations and rules that still would govern the running of the ports? I would prefer more damning evidence against the purchase instead of "Duh, it's the UAE! Two of the 9/11 hijackers were from there! They thought it was a good idea to recognize the Taliban back in 1994."

According to that information, a U.S. company would not be permitted to operate a port in Dubai. Why would we allow them to operate one here?
There are lots of countries we do business with that have similar requirements and require US companies to have "local partners" within their borders. Are you suggesting that we prohibit the companies from all such nations from doing business here? This would represent a pretty radical departure from long standing US policy!

The UAE has also apparently had problems with worker's rights abuses.
The ports whose contracts DP would hold would not become sovereign UAE territory. If you think they're going to bring the long shoreman's unions to thier knees, I think your fears are unwarranted. And again, you suggesting that any business (private or nationalized) from a country with "problems" with worker's rights be barred from our shores?
 
Some additional facts to ponder:

December 2004: Dubai was the first government in the region to sign on to the U.S. Container Security Initiative to screen all containers heading for the United States for security risks.

May 2005: Dubai signed an agreement with the U.S. Department of Energy to bar passage of nuclear material from passing through its ports, and install radiation-detecting equipment.

June 2005: The UAE joined the International Convention for the Suppression of Terrorist Bombings and the International Convention for the Suppression of the Financing of Terrorism.

October 2005: The UAE Central Bank directed banks and financial institutions in the country to tighten their internal systems and controls in their fight against money laundering and terrorist financing. UAE banks routinely cooperate with U.N. and international law-enforcement agencies in supplying information about suspect accounts.

November 2005: In the wake of the terror bombings in Jordan, General Shaykh Muhammad Bin-Zayid Al Nuhayyan, heir apparent of Abu Dhabi and supreme commander of the UAE armed forces, stated that “Muslim scholars who live among us must adopt a stand toward this terrorism… If they do not declare [terrorists] to be infidels, they should at least consider them as non-Muslims. …If there are no honest stands toward these non-religious and inhumane operations, these [attacks] will continue.”

December 2005: The UAE National Consultative Council called for declaration of an all-out war against terrorism and depriving any person who pledges allegiance to foreign extremist groups the right of UAE citizenship. The council proclaimed that it regarded links to such groups as high treason.

The UAE has also assisted the Coalition effort in Iraq, in particular training Iraqi security forces and sending material assistance to the Iraqi people.

Over 80 percent of the terminals in the Port of Los Angeles, the biggest in the U.S. are run by foreign-owned companies.
 
bsnyder said:
November 2005: In the wake of the terror bombings in Jordan, General Shaykh Muhammad Bin-Zayid Al Nuhayyan, heir apparent of Abu Dhabi and supreme commander of the UAE armed forces, stated that “Muslim scholars who live among us must adopt a stand toward this terrorism… If they do not declare [terrorists] to be infidels, they should at least consider them as non-Muslims. …If there are no honest stands toward these non-religious and inhumane operations, these [attacks] will continue.”

I like this statement and I would like it even more if it was one of their punishable laws. These fanatical Muslim schools, clerics, and scholars who teach their children that terrorism is the right road to take, are the root of terrorist evil, imho. Cracking down on this grass root anti western propaganda should be a priority of these so called friends of ours. Again, just my ho.
 
And more, from the NY Times:

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/02/21/p...&en=e827d4ad67222520&ei=5094&partner=homepage

The White House appeared stunned by the uprising, over a transaction that they considered routine — especially since China's biggest state-owned shipper runs major ports in the United States, as do a host of other foreign companies. Mr. Bush's aides defended their decision, saying the company, Dubai Ports World, which is owned by the United Arab Emirates, would have no control over security issues.

But firestorm of opposition to the deal drew a similarly intense expression of befuddlement by shipping industry and port experts.

The shipping business, they said, went global more than a decade ago and across the United States, foreign-based companies already control more than 30 percent of the port terminals.

That inventory includes APL Limited, which is controlled by the government of Singapore, and which operates terminals in Los Angeles, Oakland, Seattle, and Dutch Harbor, Alaska. Globally, 24 of the top 25 ship terminal operators are foreign-based, meaning most of the containers sent to the United States leave terminals around the world that are operated by foreign government or foreign-based companies.

"This kind of reaction is totally illogical," said Philip Damas, research director at Drewry Shipping Consultants of London. "The location of the headquarters of a company in the age of globalism is irrelevant."
 
bsnyder said:
Some additional facts to ponder:

December 2004: Dubai was the first government in the region to sign on to the U.S. Container Security Initiative to screen all containers heading for the United States for security risks.

May 2005: Dubai signed an agreement with the U.S. Department of Energy to bar passage of nuclear material from passing through its ports, and install radiation-detecting equipment.

June 2005: The UAE joined the International Convention for the Suppression of Terrorist Bombings and the International Convention for the Suppression of the Financing of Terrorism.

October 2005: The UAE Central Bank directed banks and financial institutions in the country to tighten their internal systems and controls in their fight against money laundering and terrorist financing. UAE banks routinely cooperate with U.N. and international law-enforcement agencies in supplying information about suspect accounts.

November 2005: In the wake of the terror bombings in Jordan, General Shaykh Muhammad Bin-Zayid Al Nuhayyan, heir apparent of Abu Dhabi and supreme commander of the UAE armed forces, stated that “Muslim scholars who live among us must adopt a stand toward this terrorism… If they do not declare [terrorists] to be infidels, they should at least consider them as non-Muslims. …If there are no honest stands toward these non-religious and inhumane operations, these [attacks] will continue.”

December 2005: The UAE National Consultative Council called for declaration of an all-out war against terrorism and depriving any person who pledges allegiance to foreign extremist groups the right of UAE citizenship. The council proclaimed that it regarded links to such groups as high treason.

The UAE has also assisted the Coalition effort in Iraq, in particular training Iraqi security forces and sending material assistance to the Iraqi people.

Over 80 percent of the terminals in the Port of Los Angeles, the biggest in the U.S. are run by foreign-owned companies.

Those are major reforms for a mid east country. Certainly the kind of ally that we need in the region.
 
I am holding my final opinion until we get more information. It does bother me that this was done behind closed doors. I would like to assume that it is a good deal for he USA, but until we learn more, I say STOP the process. :confused3
 
Lets also consider that a Chinese Company controls a good deal of the dock at the Port of Los Angeles, and that company is owned by the Chinese government. One could consider China a bigger threat than the UAE. They have had spies in our country. They attempted to influence an election by pumping money into the Clinton reelection campaign and the DNC, they have war heads that can reach major US cities, they are building a blue water navy, they have vowed to reunite with Taiwan and we have vowed to defend Taiwan and are planning on selling Taiwan submarines, they have an ongoing history of human rights abuses, they haven't been terribly cooperative on the war on terror. The list is long but you get the picture. If China is okay, then the reaction to the UAE can only be emotional and not based in reality.
 
Republican Senators, Reps. & Governors are very concerned about his. From the News Reports I watched for hours last night Bush & his Cabinet just heard of this last week. My Senator Kirt Weldon who is on the Homeland Security Committee is furoius about this. saying he does not think even after a review he will ever go for it. Why was congress & homeland security kept out of the loop. I am so upset. I heard a report from a Senator in FL who was just in the UAE that 70% of the country in a poll stated they HATE Americans.

I keep having Visions of the History books saying well Srategically the American went wrong with letting the UAE into 6 of thier major ports. I know I'm being emotional but this is EMOTIONAL.

Emotional & Logical. This is the selling out of AMERICA! A good bussiness deal is not alway a good deal for everyone.

Please don't flame me... I'm already in tears about this.
 
Emotional & Logical. This is the selling out of AMERICA!
Explain to me how the ports' operations being switched from a company based in the UK to a company based in the UAE makes this "the selling out of AMERICA"?

I heard a report from a Senator in FL who was just in the UAE that 70% of the country in a poll stated they HATE Americans.
And I'm sure that hearing the uproar over the possibility of six American ports being operated by a company from their country based parimarily on "It's the UAE!" will do wonders for the people that might not care for us or think we just don't like "Arabs" in general and Muslims in particular.

There may be good reasons to oppose this deal, but so far all I'm hearing is reactionary hysteria. If it's bad for trade, let's hear it. If it looks like DP is trying to monopolize the operations of ports, let's hear it. If there'd a demonstrable change in the operation of security at the ports, let's hear it. If there's examples of DP operations at other DP operated ports engauging in illegal activities, let's hear it.

There's plenty of political reasons for the Bush administration to try and block DPs purchase of P&O, without a doubt. But this thing has taken on a political life of its own and no longer bears much reflection of reality. I'm personally not big on making decisions based on pure politics. I don't think it's a good guiding principle. I also recognize that not blocking the merger also throws good political ammunition at the Democrats... who hunger to try and reverse the constant image problems they have as being "weak" on terrorism and national security. With their thunderous "outrage" over this issue, they are hoping to get back into the ball game with something that appears to actually have no bearing on national security at this point.
 
MAKmom said:
Republican Senators, Reps. & Governors are very concerned about his. From the News Reports I watched for hours last night Bush & his Cabinet just heard of this last week. My Senator Kirt Weldon who is on the Homeland Security Committee is furoius about this. saying he does not think even after a review he will ever go for it. Why was congress & homeland security kept out of the loop. I am so upset. I heard a report from a Senator in FL who was just in the UAE that 70% of the country in a poll stated they HATE Americans.

I keep having Visions of the History books saying well Srategically the American went wrong with letting the UAE into 6 of thier major ports. I know I'm being emotional but this is EMOTIONAL.

Emotional & Logical. This is the selling out of AMERICA! A good bussiness deal is not alway a good deal for everyone.

Please don't flame me... I'm already in tears about this.
A little melodramatic? :duck:

Do you all look at every arabic person suspicially? I am just curious? There are a lot of racial undertones in this thread. And don't you think that the politicians are now spinning this out of control? You poll the world and that 70% would probably be true for nearly every nation.

By the way, if people want to use the argument that some funding for September 11 came out of UAE, then I guess we better not have any ties to Switzerland as well.
 
Oh, and for people that think that the port operations should be handled by a good 'ol red-white-and-blue company, I have some good news for you. There is a large American company with a lot of expertise at running deep water ports. It's name: Halliburton...
 

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