Bush was told levies could break ....

[Lisa loves Pooh]

The news was broadcasting here in NY as you put it "thousands of miles away" that they thought the hurricane may be heading in the direction of New Orleans days bf they knew for certain, maybe they were not sure exactly until Fri but were speaking days beforehand of the possible catastrophic event if a class 4 or 5 hurricane hit New Orleans. When I speak of "they" in my other posts, I mean everyone from local government up to the President and I have never stated Bush was completely at fault anywhere in my posts. And just for the record, the word is "mandatory." Now I'm going back to reading some of the happy posts about Disneyworld, hehe.

key word...

MAY


MAY and POSSIBLE are not reason enough to begin evacuating if the location is nowhere near the "cone" and nowhere in the predicted landfall area.

Heck--we'd evacuate weekly if that were the case.

Every season there is a possibility that a location--MAY be hit.

 

[lulu71]

Agreed - completey. Not to mention the failure of the people involved. Who missed the fact that they live BELOW sea level in some areas? Who missed the fact that they live in a hurricane prone region? If you need levees to keep water off of your street and out of your home you know you're in a rough spot. That anyone chooses to live like this is insanity to me. However, you are of course well within your right to do so. Just stop bemoaning the inevitable when it happens.

Erin

I almost posted that there are no words, but nah, I can come up with a few.

"They" are real people and I happen to be one of them. The levees were not topped in my neighborhood. They broke because of the sheer incompetence of the Corps of Engineers whom, by the way, are paid by my tax dollars. Are you calling me insane for living in a home raised 5 feet off the ground in a neighborhood that has never flooded before, that is 2.5 feet below sea level? You do the math.

You see the baby in my signature? Well, because of this manmade disaster all of her clothes (except for the couple of outfits we took with us to evacuate) are all gone, all of her toys, her furniture, her heirlooms from great-grandparents that she will never meet, all gone. My wedding dress that I hoped she would someday wear - gone too. We have been through hell and back in the last six months. Do you even have an ounce of sensitivity in your bones? Your post makes me sick.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Yup!
don't get why some on both sides seem to deny that. The locals failed before the storm. The Federal govt failed way before for not securing the levees and also post storm to this day.

Noones denying anything regarding authorities.

The only thing that is being disputed is the fact that noone had a crystal ball and these memories of KNOWING an event was going to happen---are actually memories of a FEELING it was going to happen. Anyone who says they KNEW---are not being honest with themselves.

Hurricanes are unpredictable and there is no knowing--especially in the time frame where all the "experts" on this board are speaking of--in that time frame...Florida was the target.

 

[amy4life]

My kid has a bucket on her head...

Hows that for random?

 

[Viking]

OK, let's assume he didn't know that the levees would break and that it's not his fault. But what about this: Half a year later there are still dead bodies rotting in their houses. Wrecked cars, damaged houses, debris are still cluttering up major portions of New Orleans.

We had a big flood here too in 2002.
-Large portions of Eastern Germany were flooded, dozens of levees and dikes broke.
-The flooding included Dresden, a major city.
-We didn't have any looting.
-Our military forces were called in to help reinforce the dikes and levees.
-They didn't have to shoot at anyone, they didn't even bring weapons.
-They were not shot at.
-Some weeks later all the rubble was cleared.
-All affected citizens were either compensated by their insurance or helped by the state/federal government.
-A year later virtually no traces of the flood were to be found anymore.

If a small country like ours can handle something like this, a large one like the USA should be able to do it too!! Perhaps it would be wiser to spend money for one's own citizens, instead of 'burning it' abroad in an unjustified war.

 

[mickeyfan2]

My point (poorly worded) is that the Superdome was implied safe and many people trusted that to be true. It worked out well as far as winds went but turned out to be a horrible choice in other ways

It was safer than a shack, but the last time it was used they realized it had flaws that would make it unsafe. It did not work well with the winds. The wind not rain blew the roof open. If the winds had been a little stronger the entire roof would have been gone and many trapped below it. If the levees had held and the winds were stronger the SD would have been a disaster. The design of the roof is flawed.

 

[mickeyfan2]

Where I live we got hit by Isabelle and that was not the projected path for most of the time. They never told us to evacuate, but we had wind gusts of 80 MPH. We lost 6 30 ft trees and 8 more were leaning. We were able to save all of the 8 because our neighbor is a landscaper and her uprighted and staked them the next morning. This year we remove the stakes. It takes 3 years for the tree to root again. The experts are always talking about the worse case senario (and Isabelle came close) of a hurricane going up the Chesapeake Bay and we would be demolished. This is a good possiblity. We did design our home with that in mind - poured concete basement, lolly columns in the concrete floor, bolted I-Beam in the basement, floor joists bolted to the I-Beam, 4 ft bolts in the concrete walls that the home is bolted to, 3/4" marine plywood that is across the floor joists and hurricane ties on every truss. Even with all of that the house can still be destroyed. Isabelle was nothing compared to Katrina.

 

[mickeyfan2]

Lulu71 I can not even begin to imagine your pain.

 

[TCPluto]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,186697,00.html

Whoops. Seems the feds were getting misinformatiom from state government.

Blanko reported that the levees had not been breached.

 

[LoraJ]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,186697,00.html

Whoops. Seems the feds were getting misinformatiom from state government.

Blanko reported that the levees had not been breached.

"We keep getting reports in some places that maybe water is coming over the levees," Gov. Kathleen Blanco said shortly after noon on Aug. 29 — the day the storm hit the Gulf coast.

"We heard a report unconfirmed, I think, we have not breached the levee," she said on a video of the day's disaster briefing that was obtained Thursday night by The Associated Press. "I think we have not breached the levee at this time


What does unconfirmed mean to you and FOX News?

 

[LoraJ]

I almost posted that there are no words, but nah, I can come up with a few.

"They" are real people and I happen to be one of them. The levees were not topped in my neighborhood. They broke because of the sheer incompetence of the Corps of Engineers whom, by the way, are paid by my tax dollars. Are you calling me insane for living in a home raised 5 feet off the ground in a neighborhood that has never flooded before, that is 2.5 feet below sea level? You do the math.

You see the baby in my signature? Well, because of this manmade disaster all of her clothes (except for the couple of outfits we took with us to evacuate) are all gone, all of her toys, her furniture, her heirlooms from great-grandparents that she will never meet, all gone. My wedding dress that I hoped she would someday wear - gone too. We have been through hell and back in the last six months. Do you even have an ounce of sensitivity in your bones? Your post makes me sick.

*hugs*
People really need to think before they make insensitive comments like that one.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

"We keep getting reports in some places that maybe water is coming over the levees," Gov. Kathleen Blanco said shortly after noon on Aug. 29 — the day the storm hit the Gulf coast.

"We heard a report unconfirmed, I think, we have not breached the levee," she said on a video of the day's disaster briefing that was obtained Thursday night by The Associated Press. "I think we have not breached the levee at this time


What does unconfirmed mean to you and FOX News?

In news reports on other than fox she said similar things--the word "unconfirmed" is generally just a CYA tactic so as not to produce panic--they do that A LOT here as well post hurricane.

They (the news) bring it up so that they can later say "we were the first to report" or later become hero to say "as we told you it was unconfirmed and thank goodness it turned out not to be true".

In times of crisis I put no credence in that word. Someone's saying something--so unconfirmed or not, if you are hearing about it--go find out.

However--I think TLCPluto brought it up b/c the federal government acts based on what the state government has said.

And if you remember the briefings where she said those weirds--she really didn't have a clue and an appopriate rebuttal is that the reports are "unconfirmed but we will be checking them out". She wasn't well spoken at the time and according to residents in her state--she is that way with or without crisis.


DISCLAIMER--I still agree response sucked in hindsight....however, I think the state put up imaginary walls thinking they had everything covered when in fact they did not.

 

[LoraJ]

The point is, SHE said unconfirmed which I would hope the Feds would see how clueless she was. But it's not misinformation. It would be misinformation if she said she had a confirmed report.

 

[Obi-Wan Pinobi]

key word...

MAY


MAY and POSSIBLE are not reason enough to begin evacuating if the location is nowhere near the "cone" and nowhere in the predicted landfall area.

Heck--we'd evacuate weekly if that were the case.

Every season there is a possibility that a location--MAY be hit.

I've only breezed through the first part of this thread and then the last page so I apologize if my post is rehashing anything or beating a dead horse.

I see where you are going with the "may and possible" argument, but it just doesn't work in this situation. There are different levels and severity to the "may and possible" scenario.

Here is an example

It's possible that while you are out of your house, an electical fire could start. You know that is a threat but there is no definate evidence that it would 100% happen to you. You chose not to turn the electricity in your house off before you leave and it does catch on fire and burns down. Does anyone really blame you for not acting on what "may and possibly" happen? No way. Everyone knows it may happen, but the possibility is pretty out there.

On the other end

You are sitting at home one night and start having chest pains. You aren't technically a doctor but from what you have heard from them and from others, it seems that you MAY be having a heart attack. Do you sit there and wait until you collapse on the floor and your heart stops beating to do anything or do you call 911/go to the ER and play it safe. Sure, it may be a heart attack but hey, maybe it's intergestion and you may waste a night being hooked to machines and blow some money for nothing - BUT, you err on the side of caution because the other outcome would be a catastrophe. That is the responsible thing to do. And when you are looking at a city of thousands and thousands of people living in areas under sea level - pretty much living in a giant bowl - next to levees that you have been TOLD will potentionally not withstand a hurricane like Katrina.. you err on the side of caution. Better to have thousands of people pissed off at you because they lost a couple of days of their life due to an inconvenient and unneeded evacuation vs thousands of people pissed at you because you did nothing and people lost more than a few days.. they lost their lives.

Hey, I'm not anywhere near a Bush basher. I voted both times for him. I'm just quite disappointed and upset in how he has handled (or in some cases no handled) his job. And ultimately, even if state and local authorities dropped the ball on Katrina and the levees issue.. the buck does stop at Bush at the end of the day if he knew the potential of what could happen.

 

[TCPluto]

It means no one knew what was going on. Please share your anger and blame with the Democrat Governor and Mayor.

 

[LoraJ]

It means no one knew what was going on. Please share your anger and blame with the Democrat Governor and Mayor.

I have! Check out my posts. I blame the locals for what happened right before the storm and the governor for her incompetance after and also the Feds. Why do you not blame the Feds but only the locals?

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Hey, I'm not anywhere near a Bush basher. I voted both times for him. I'm just quite disappointed and upset in how he has handled (or in some cases no handled) his job. And ultimately, even if state and local authorities dropped the ball on Katrina and the levees issue.. the buck does stop at Bush at the end of the day if he knew the potential of what could happen.

Everyone is saying they KNEW the hurricanes would hit. That is what I was speaking of--May and possibly are weekly words in hurricane land.


At the time that everyone is proclaiming this knowledge---Florida was in the line of fire.

Those who claim they knew are fabricating this.

The problem with your analogies (sp?) is that in the scenario that we are speaking of--as of Thursday..there were no chest pains--there were no signs for the city of New Orleans.

August 28th was Saturday at the time of the briefing--that was just too late to guarantee everyone's safety. The "may and possible" argument that is being flaunted as fact and knowledge---is being used earlier in the week. the "may and possible" I was addressing was teh poster that said even in New York we knew--no they did not.

Everyone seems to think that when a hurricane is headed to the Florida Panhandle that New Orleans should be evacuated.

 

[TCPluto]

The point is, SHE said unconfirmed which I would hope the Feds would see how clueless she was. But it's not misinformation. It would be misinformation if she said she had a confirmed report.

Officials in Washington are told by the Governor of the state, who is in that state, that she doesn't believe that the levees have been breached. You're suggesting we discount what she believes about her own state?

I don't think so.

 

[LoraJ]

Officials in Washington are told by the Governor of the state, who is in that state, that she doesn't believe that the levees have been breached. You're suggesting we discount what she believes about her own state?

I don't think so.

So that means you only blame locals then? You can never place blame on Bush and his administration for anything can you?
If the Feds take her at her word when she doesn't know and has unconfirmed reports, they sound even more incompetant than her. Don't you think?

 

[wvrevy]

My, my...what a surprise. The usual suspects all spinning frantically to make sure Shrub doesn't look like the incompetant fool that he is.

I swear, sometimes I think that anyone in this administration could literally shoot someone in the face and you guys would go out of your way to find excuses and blame somebody else.

Oh...wait...