Budget Airlines

[sam_gordon]

notice the cushion is like an inch thick..

not like this:
https://i.insider.com/628bab87b0a8be00186013ea?width=1300&format=jpeg&auto=webp
or this :
View attachment 797569

Isn't that Delta's Comfort+ seating. Not fair to compare that to a ULCC. I've been on some newer aircraft w/Delta that had the "thin" padding.

 

[Robbie Cottam]

Isn't that Delta's Comfort+ seating. Not fair to compare that to a ULCC. I've been on some newer aircraft w/Delta that had the "thin" padding.

sure it is since nicer seats aren’t even an option on the cheap guys

 

[NotUrsula]

I don't think Frontier has switched the seat pan style to lower the weight, except as an incidental benefit; they've done it to make the seats cheaper to build. As a PP noted, Frontier's seats now have NO padding; they are only vinyl covers pulled over metal-framed mesh seat slings. This photo, taken from the side, reveals the actual edge of the sling pan showing through the vinyl cover in the economy seat on the left.

I know upholstery; it isn't just the weight of the foam; it's the weight of the extra fabric that goes on the sides and lower surface, and the fasteners that hook the pieces together -- even thread has weight, and an average padded seat cushion uses about 100 feet of heavy-gauge thread, plus 20 or so staples and some glue. Still, all of that probably only equals out to the weight of about 3 grown men for an entire aircraft, though the fuel savings probably does add up over the life of the seat.

What they are really saving is labor/materials cost, and shipping cost from the mfr. to the airline. It's immensely cheaper and faster to sew up a sling seat cover than it is to create a foam-filled upholstered one. Even with my home machine, I can run up a 2 layer sling in about 15 minutes doing them one at a time; factories use computer-driven saws to cut 50 layers of fabric at a time and machines that do 2K stitches per minute, so I'm guessing that sewing them together takes maybe a minute each, as opposed to the 30 minutes or so that putting together all the components of an upholstered foam seat pan will take. It uses a lot less fabric, no glue, and you can probably ship them 60 to a carton, as opposed to about 24 to a carton for foam cushions.

 

[_19disnA]

Thinner seats also mean they can place the rows closer together resulting in more rows of seats in the same sized aircraft (i.e. more paying customers).

 

[Robbie Cottam]

Thinner seats also mean they can place the rows closer together resulting in more rows of seats in the same sized aircraft (i.e. more paying customers).

Moo, mooo

 

[Maistre Gracey]

As much as it hurts me to defend any budget airline, they are not cutting cost, it the seat structure….. the seat still have handle like 29Gs in a crash….

Where they save is the padding the foam the have to use is not something you can buy at Joann’s fabrics or hobby lobby….

By using 1 inch and not 4 you can save a lot of money over 180 seats.

Where they save is two fold…
Getting another two rows of seats, plus the weight reduction. If you can cut a thousand pounds worth of foam, the fuel reduction is very noticeable.

 

[Maistre Gracey]

sure it is since nicer seats aren’t even an option on the cheap guys

Actually the stretch rows have a *bit* more comfy seats.

 

[Maistre Gracey]

Thats part of how they keep cost down, no frills airplane parts…. In this case seats

No frills airplane “parts” ????

I don't think Frontier has switched the seat pan style to lower the weight, except as an incidental benefit; they've done it to make the seats cheaper to build. As a PP noted, Frontier's seats now have NO padding; they are only vinyl covers pulled over metal-framed mesh seat slings. This photo, taken from the side, reveals the actual edge of the sling pan showing through the vinyl cover in the economy seat on the left.

I know upholstery; it isn't just the weight of the foam; it's the weight of the extra fabric that goes on the sides and lower surface, and the fasteners that hook the pieces together -- even thread has weight, and an average padded seat cushion uses about 100 feet of heavy-gauge thread, plus 20 or so staples and some glue. Still, all of that probably only equals out to the weight of about 3 grown men for an entire aircraft, though the fuel savings probably does add up over the life of the seat.

What they are really saving is labor/materials cost, and shipping cost from the mfr. to the airline. It's immensely cheaper and faster to sew up a sling seat cover than it is to create a foam-filled upholstered one. Even with my home machine, I can run up a 2 layer sling in about 15 minutes doing them one at a time; factories use computer-driven saws to cut 50 layers of fabric at a time and machines that do 2K stitches per minute, so I'm guessing that sewing them together takes maybe a minute each, as opposed to the 30 minutes or so that putting together all the components of an upholstered foam seat pan will take. It uses a lot less fabric, no glue, and you can probably ship them 60 to a carton, as opposed to about 24 to a carton for foam cushions.

*minimal padding*…. Stretch seats a wee bit more.

 

[Robbie Cottam]

No frills airplane “parts” ????

*minimal padding*…. Stretch seats a wee bit more.

parts; like comfy seats, free wifi, tvs, peanuts…. Soda carts

 

[Maistre Gracey]

parts; like comfy seats, free wifi, tvs, peanuts…. Soda carts

Okay, I will roll with that…
I was thinking more “mechanical parts”.

 

[Robbie Cottam]

Apparently you haven’t seen the you tube where a mechanic secures a cowling with speed tape….
but you would actually be surprised what can be broken and still dispatch the jet

 

[TippyThomas]

2 pilots having a contest over who knows more. This should be interesting.

 

[Robbie Cottam]

2 pilots having a contest over who knows more. This should be interesting.

Normal …. Is the word you are looking for

 

[TippyThomas]

Normal …. Is the word you are looking for

Yeah, I figured that went without saying.

 

[Robbie Cottam]

Yeah, I figured that went without saying.

I don’t really care either way,

you want less foam and an extra 1/2 of inch of seat pitch have at it….
your flights not leaving the gate anyway

 

[sam_gordon]

Where they save is two fold…
Getting another two rows of seats, plus the weight reduction. If you can cut a thousand pounds worth of foam, the fuel reduction is very noticeable.

So assuming 30 rows of seats, six seats per row, and saving 4#/seat = you're at 720# of weight "savings". BUT, you've now added two additional rows, so that's got to be 240-500# of ADDED weight. So is 500# of weight savings really that much? That's what two adults (with luggage)?

 

[Maistre Gracey]

So assuming 30 rows of seats, six seats per row, and saving 4#/seat = you're at 720# of weight "savings". BUT, you've now added two additional rows, so that's got to be 240-500# of ADDED weight. So is 500# of weight savings really that much? That's what two adults (with luggage)?

I do not pretend to know the math. Just repeating what the bean counters tell us.

I am a captain for a LCC.

 

[Maistre Gracey]

Apparently you haven’t seen the you tube where a mechanic secures a cowling with speed tape….
but you would actually be surprised what can be broken and still dispatch the jet

I have seen *most* everything.
The stuff I have not seen would not surprise me.

 

[Robbie Cottam]

So assuming 30 rows of seats, six seats per row, and saving 4#/seat = you're at 720# of weight "savings". BUT, you've now added two additional rows, so that's got to be 240-500# of ADDED weight. So is 500# of weight savings really that much? That's what two adults (with luggage)?

Depend on the program 181 pounds for an adult….

carry ons and checked bags varies a bit more but say 20 for a carry on and 30 for checked

 

[EACarlson]

may in an older regional airliner…. Such as the emb 130 /140, or the CRJ 200, no body uses those anymore

Hey now, I've logged 7 segments this year on a CR2, still plenty of them flying in and out of ORD in AA and UA livery under Skywest and AirWisconsin. I don't think there are many left at MSP, which used to have it's own concourse for the Devil's Chariot.