brightline update

[joelkfla]

Yeah, lol. Wait until the first few deaths where some druggie walks onto the tracks. Cars are not the problem.

https://www.npr.org/2020/01/29/799962246/brightline-nations-deadliest-railroad-after-high-number-of-track-deaths#:~:text=Ethics-,Florida's Brightline Railroad Is Nation's Deadliest After High Rate Of,up most of the deaths.

They will have to slow down through train yards and some curves. But if they went 25-30mph thru every grade crossing, the trip would take way longer than driving, and nobody would ride.

I honestly don't see the rationale for a Disney Springs stop unless the tracks are already there. Mears, Uber, etc from MCO would be easier and probably less expensive.

Brightline management obviously does. The rationale is that people traveling from So FL or Tampa to WDW will ride the train. They'd be less inclined to do so if they had to get off the train at the airport and find their own way to WDW. It's not known yet whether it will be a one-seat ride from Miami, but at worst it should be an across the platform transfer with luggage check-through.

 

[JimMIA]

They will have to slow down through train yards and some curves. But if they went 25-30mph thru every grade crossing, the trip would take way longer than driving, and nobody would ride.

Well, they're not running right now, but I'm telling you what I have seen back in the day when they were running. They were going very slowly with a crew in a van leapfrogging ahead of them from grade crossing to grade crossing. This was in Miami, well north of downtown (like 4-10 miles north).

Brightline management obviously does. The rationale is that people traveling from So FL or Tampa to WDW will ride the train. They'd be less inclined to do so if they had to get off the train at the airport and find their own way to WDW. It's not known yet whether it will be a one-seat ride from Miami, but at worst it should be an across the platform transfer with luggage check-through.

Of course, and Brightline has done the analytical work to really evaluate it. We're just guessing.

We would ride it to Disney from Miami. In fact, we're hopeful they'll be operating prior to our DD's graduation from UCF in 2024. We definitely plan to ride it to MCO to visit her! We had a NYC/Boston holiday trip a few years ago and we took the train from NYC to Springfield, MA. It wasn't fast, but it sure was more relaxing and fun than flying or driving!

Specific to South Florida, there is one large target market that Brightline may not have thought of -- school trips! Every year of high school, each class in DD's school did a trip to either a WDW theme park or to Universal. Not everybody went, but each class had 200+ on every trip -- and that's just one medium-sized high school. They bussed up and back in the same day, so it was a 4 AM - 2 AM grind. Trains would be easier, much more comfortable, and an hour quicker each way.

 

[Lewisc]

PP talked about school trips. I assume currently kids are dropped at school parking lot. I assume the school is close to kids residence. Add, 30 minutes?, for travel time to train statio. Assume a trip to Universal. You'd need to arrange charter bus from MCO or DS to Universal. Assume the time to load adds another 15 minutes. Plus travel time. Most of your hour savings will disappear. Without subsidies the train will be more expensive.

I read the ridership projections were based on Amtrack in the Boston, NYC, DC routes. Mass transit is significantly different in Boston, NYC and DC then in Florida. The train is less attractive if you have to drive to your origin train station and drive from you destination station

 

[JimMIA]

PP talked about school trips. I assume currently kids are dropped at school parking lot. I assume the school is close to kids residence. Add, 30 minutes?, for travel time to train statio. Assume a trip to Universal. You'd need to arrange charter bus from MCO or DS to Universal. Assume the time to load adds another 15 minutes. Plus travel time. Most of your hour savings will disappear. Without subsidies the train will be more expensive.

Right...assuming there is no station at Universal.

If the Expressway authority gets their way and there's a station there, the picture changes. If there is a Universal station, I doubt if they would do Disney at all. The kids prefer Universal anyway, and you would eliminate herding cats to get the kids from the train to Disney buses.

For pickup and dropoff -- it's just a drive to the train station instead of driving to school. At the hours they'd be going there wouldn't be much traffic.

 

[joelkfla]

Well, they're not running right now, but I'm telling you what I have seen back in the day when they were running. They were going very slowly with a crew in a van leapfrogging ahead of them from grade crossing to grade crossing. This was in Miami, well north of downtown (like 4-10 miles north).

Was that during the 1st few weeks of operation? They may have been working out the kinks and acclimating the community to the service. I rode one round trip, and don't recall that happening. I've also seen YouTubes of recent test trains (for Positive Train Control) going thru crossings at normal speed.

Speaking of PTC, that will be the method of warning or stopping trains when the crossing is blocked. It is being implemented just now during the current shutdown.

Miami Central to WPB is 64 mi. as the crow flies. Brightline scheduled time was 74 minutes. That's an average speed (if the track were perfectly straight) of 52 mph. Top speed on that segment is 79 mph.

 

[JimMIA]

Was that during the 1st few weeks of operation?

Speaking of PTC, that will be the method of warning or stopping trains when the crossing is blocked. It is being implemented just now during the current shutdown.

No, it was not early in their existence.

Also, as I mentioned earlier, the problem is not usually cars at grade crossings. It's drunks, druggies and suicidal people on the tracks. According to the article I posted above, Brightline was killing an average of one person per month at one point. They killed more than 40 in their first two years of operation.

Brightline claimed that 75% of those deaths were suicides, but I think most discerning readers can figure out where they pulled than number from, LOL. The more rational number is about 30% suicide, according to the article.

I don't know if that PTC is sensitive enough to spot a person, and if it can spot them soon enough to stop a moving train. I'm not saying it isn't; I just don't know.

 

[joelkfla]

No, it was not early in their existence.

Also, as I mentioned earlier, the problem is not usually cars at grade crossings. It's drunks, druggies and suicidal people on the tracks. According to the article I posted above, Brightline was killing an average of one person per month at one point. They killed more than 40 in their first two years of operation.

Brightline claimed that 75% of those deaths were suicides, but I think most discerning readers can figure out where they pulled than number from, LOL. The more rational number is about 30% suicide, according to the article.

I don't know if that PTC is sensitive enough to spot a person, and if it can spot them soon enough to stop a moving train. I'm not saying it isn't; I just don't know.

PTC is primarily a means of ensuring that trains don't get too close to one another, and enforcing signals and speed restrictions. The intrusion detectors would feed into that to alert the engineer or possibly stop the train.

I don't know whether the intrusion detectors would detect a person in the crossing. I think there are different manners of detection available, from the buried wire loops that detect vehicles above them, to camera systems or motion detectors.

The crossings will have gates across all lanes of traffic, as well as across sidewalks. It will take more effort to get around them, but you can't stop someone determined to do so on foot. I've seen gates with an extra panel that drops down to block off the area between the gate and the ground, but I don't know whether those are planned here. https://safety.fhwa.dot.gov/hsip/xings/fhwasa19037/

Looking at a YouTube, as of last year most of crossings north of Miami did not have four-quadrant gates, (which is one reason that the track speed limit is lower) so it would be easier for someone not operating at full mental capacity to wander onto the tracks,

 

[JimMIA]

Looking at a YouTube, as of last year most of crossings north of Miami did not have four-quadrant gates, (which is one reason that the track speed limit is lower) so it would be easier for someone not operating at full mental capacity to wander onto the tracks,

Yes, that's correct. The ones that only have one-half of the area covered are easy to get around, even for a car. In fact, I think the most recent train death we had was a driver who thought he could drive around the gates and beat the train. Unfortunately, he just got a tie.

We also recently had a genius drive around gates on a drawbridge and try to jump the gap as the bridge rose. He almost made it.

Some Miami drivers are just a very special class of stupid.

 

[Disneyfan754321]

Yes, that's correct. The ones that only have one-half of the area covered are easy to get around, even for a car. In fact, I think the most recent train death we had was a driver who thought he could drive around the gates and beat the train. Unfortunately, he just got a tie.

We also recently had a genius drive around gates on a drawbridge and try to jump the gap as the bridge rose. He almost made it.

Some Miami drivers are just a very special class of stupid.

Omg I was laughing at this comment.. something really happens to people left in the sun too long.
I guess that's why the world plays "Florida man" and the laughing at us.
I have truly loved this train chat.

 

[Lewisc]

Some of the drivers who go around the gate and lose the race with the train are suicide.

 

[Capt_BJ]

you miss the point

this company said they would install 'special safety equipment' due to their higher speeds

and have in fact installed ZIP ... NOTHING beyond the same gates 'slow' trains use and NOW say the higher death rates are not their fault.

1) they ACKNOWLEDGED the need for better systems when seeking the OK to build

2) Now operating with NO additional safety and high deaths "not OUR fault" (actually not operating for MONTHS now ....)

They are expanding into my back yard and frankly I'm NOT very happy about it . . .

 

[Grand Koalafornian]

you miss the point

this company said they would install 'special safety equipment' due to their higher speeds

and have in fact installed ZIP ... NOTHING beyond the same gates 'slow' trains use and NOW say the higher death rates are not their fault.

1) they ACKNOWLEDGED the need for better systems when seeking the OK to build

2) Now operating with NO additional safety and high deaths "not OUR fault" (actually not operating for MONTHS now ....)

They are expanding into my back yard and frankly I'm NOT very happy about it . . .

This makes me so sad. As I mentioned earlier in the thread, I love trains. But I don’t love them when they are killing people! Safety should always be priority one.

They were already unsafe it seems, then they want to travel faster without additional safety measures? Unacceptable. Corporate greed is out of control in this country. I’m no longer “all in.”

 

[Capt_BJ]

trains built right are GREAT ....

 

[Lewisc]

Commuter rail by me is eliminating many grade crossing. Grade crossing and regular rail isn't good. Grade crossing and high speed rail shouldn't be allowed.

 

[JimMIA]

Brief update.

We made a quick trip up to UCF last week, and there was a lot of work going on alongside 528, all the way from I-95 to where we turned off at 417. There was hardly a mile without workers and activity. They still have a long way to go, but they're certainly working on it.

 

[Lewisc]

This makes me so sad. As I mentioned earlier in the thread, I love trains. But I don’t love them when they are killing people! Safety should always be priority one.

They were already unsafe it seems, then they want to travel faster without additional safety measures? Unacceptable. Corporate greed is out of control in this country. I’m no longer “all in.”

Some areas are also anti-regulation pro-business.

Grade level crossing for high speed trains should not be allowed, very few exceptions.

 

[joelkfla]

Some areas are also anti-regulation pro-business.

Grade level crossing for high speed trains should not be allowed, very few exceptions.

The existing operation is not HSR. The highest speed limit is 79mph, which is standard for passenger rail in the USA on good quality track.

Grade crossings on the 110mph sections will have enhanced safety features as prescribed by the federal government, which should be effective at keeping vehicles out of the way.

The 125mph section will have no grade crossings.

As for drunks and druggies wandering onto the tracks, it really doesn't matter how fast the train is moving.

 

[Disneyfan754321]

Brief update.

We made a quick trip up to UCF last week, and there was a lot of work going on alongside 528, all the way from I-95 to where we turned off at 417. There was hardly a mile without workers and activity. They still have a long way to go, but they're certainly working on it.

I love that you updated, my son is a railfaner I really need to take him up there and it gives me a reason to be in Central Florida.

 

[joelkfla]

I love that you updated, my son is a railfaner I really need to take him up there and it gives me a reason to be in Central Florida.

I recommend this YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/c/TheRoamingRailfan

Especially interesting are the the drone videos of the tunnels being built. Brightline was so impressed with his work that they invited him on site to shoot videos of their maintenance facilities and tunnel construction.

 

[Disneyfan754321]

Hunter’s Creek will fight Brightline from crossing through the community along S.R. 417

https://www.orlandosentinel.com/new...0210513-wd6j4crxzzehbpcztvtjyjcuki-story.html