Boycott trades of Blackheart's Quest items!

[Kairi-Angel]

I know, seeing a thread for silver ears up for trade already yesterday made me sick! Not to be mean but obviously some people did this quest to trade for even more rare. If I had gotten through it the items would be my absolute prized vmk possessions, they would never leave my inventory.

Same here, except for credits, because well I need them to buy stuff.

 

[VMK_MagicalLadee]

I worked hard for those items, don't you worry, I aint trading them.

Plus.. The ears are my favourite. XD

 

[TLinden16]

You know, just for people who are saying that they earned every thing they got in the quest, and why should others have the opportunity to buy them when we had to work so hard to get them, take a look at it this way.

Even without all of the items, those of us who completed the quest were rewarded greatly for our efforts this weekend by the fact that the prize included 75,000 credits. What is the value of 75,000? Take a look at this:

The top players in fireworks earn about 700 credits per game. It would take them 107 games to earn 75,000 credits. Figuring on it taking about 15 minutes to wait for a game to start and complete that game, it would take the person 26 hours to complete that quest. Now, that is less than many spent working on it, but lets face it. Most people aren't earning 700 credits per game.

Let's say you make 500 credits per fireworks game. It would take you 150 games to hit 75,000. Now you're up to 37.5 hours of time to get that amount of credits.

Let's say you make 350 credits per game, half of what the best players get. It would take you 214 games to reach that level! Or 53 hours.

If you're a mansion player who makes about 350 credits per game, it would take you about 214 games and 40 hours to get that kind of credits.

In reality, I think waiting in the lines for the pirates games for a half hour to play for five minutes was a lot less stressful, and took alot less effort than playing a 150 games of fireworks, or 200 games of mansion. The waiting time and helping others was what made the amount of time people had to spend on this quest so high. I personally enjoyed the waiting time because it gave me time to chat with my friends and make some new friends.

What about all those people who spent 10, or 20, or 40 hours this weekend trying to win the quest, but failing. Or those who spent countless hours helping others. They have nothing to show for their efforts. Maybe a small amount of credits from the pirates games.

So bottom line is, players who completed the quest were more than rewarded for the time by the credits. Giving other the ability to buy those prizes doesn't mean we weren't fairly compensated for our times.

I bet many players who completed the quest now have a higher bankroll than they ever had because they couldn't have made that kind of credits within their normal game play.

 

[Disneychick74]

So bottom line is, players who completed the quest were more than rewarded for the time by the credits. Giving other the ability to buy those prizes doesn't mean we weren't fairly compensated for our times.

What is the point of VMK making everyone insane for 3 days if they are just going to sell the prizes?

So my baseball team...Lets say The red sox...they play an entire season of baseball and work hard all season just like every other team in the league but then playoff time comes and they STILL play hard but another team plays harder and wins the World Series trophy...
Everyone else played just as hard shouldn't everyone get one???? That is what this thread sounds like to me.

And what about the people who DIDN'T work hard???
the people that won their game and ran off to finish the quest and left their team hanging.
or the hundreds of people that said " I hate pirates I am not even trying that quest"
should they all have a "fair shot" at these awesome prizes??

 

[The_VMK_Teddybaer]

As I posted this in another thread...
I completed this quest a few times for me and my family.
all the while helping some 25+ ppl get past pirates and killing myself trying to get all through each time before I won myself.
12 hours a day sat and Sun and 5 today.
so because I had a plan, and was good at the quest and put others before myself I should be punished by working my behind off all this time for a reward that ANYONE is going to be able to get????
If I want to trade silver ears for stitch that is my perogative.
If you dont think it is a fair trade then dont make it.
they are virtual items in a virtual game how do you judge worth?
a stitch hat aquired from booking a $5,000 vacation (requiring ppl to have money) or my 30 hours of persistance and hard work playing this quest.
YES I DO think that silver ears are worth blue stitch!
I am sorry that some of you did not get through the quest but it was NOT impossible as you can see...
Many made it.
many did not...you were forwarned that it would be like that.

OMG!! I so agree with this!!! Hey I worked hard on that quest, real hard.. For 3 1/2 days I busted my chops and I shed a daily tear of frustration not only doing my own quest but helping countless others, including ppl I didn't even know.. I have no idea how many times I said not only to myself but to my friends, forget it I'm done, I quit, I can't take it.. I watched ppl I helped finish the quest while I was still waiting my turn to past POTC.. I have np groveling about this quest bc it stunk! But I persisted ( tyvm to my friends and they know who they are ) and I won the bounty that made my eyes widen when I saw it!! I did finish my quest Monday night and I too tried like heck to get my mule through, but again my mule was trying for a friend of mine who's family has been having financial difficulties and couldn't do the quest.. And in my opinion if you had gotten your mule through then more power to you.. Yes its a terrible thing that ppl are so greedy but you know what that is life and its out there in the real world at all ages.. There's nothing you can do about it.. In my opinion I think its great that ppl are trading the extra items that they got bc hey now the ppl that couldn't make it through have the chance at owning the silver ears that they didn't get.. As far as the price of the stuff.. Look at the price you have to pay for oh lets say a pair of green flips or the price of stitch.. If you think about it the silver ears are probably more rare than the blue stitch hat.

I have no problems with VMK selling the lightening magic bc its cool and I too would love to have 5* but just like the Rurple Baseball outfit ( which btw I see for trade tons of times and nobody is griping about that ) certain things should be left off the store shelves. Bottom line, I deserve to keep at least something exclusive to show my rewards of the quest such as the silver ears!!

Keep Silver Ears off the Store Shelf!!​

 

[Goofy05]

I think a lot of you are missing the point. I'm not going to get into morals or ethics about greed, that's between you and your own conscience. My point was using others to get extra sets on mules. I was there to help people through a difficult quest and was excited for them when they passed pirates and mansion! Woohoo! That's an awesome feeling! BUT, now let's add the mules into the equation. I helped people I have never seen in game before through both pirates and mansion. How many of those were doing the quest a second or third time or more to win items purely for their own profit off of MY sweat? THOSE are the people who shouldn't be allowed to trade silver ears for blue stitch. I would assume most of the items for trade now were muled. Notice I did not say ALL, but look at some of the trade threads of people offering more than one of each item...
My second point involves those who did put in the effort and vmk killed the quest when they were more than half way through. Why do they have to pay those insane prices for something they should have been able to own by finishing the quest, had it stayed through the posted time allotted?
Hate me for my opinion or don't, we are all entitled to an opinion. I'm posting my opinion and I stand by it. The quest was flawed and those items IN MY OPINION should be available for purchase. I never said the Blue Stitch Hat should be sold, that was never an item available in game, I don't even know how that became an issue here in this thread.
SO, if you don't wish to boycott the trades, that is your opinion. Don't try justifying the use of mules for personal gain with me, because those mules used seven (five if you're good) players in pirates, which added longer wait times for those who were trying for their first quest, and three maybe four players in mansion to get those extra items and THAT is the slap in my face and everyone else who helped others they didn't know complete those tasks.

 

[Disneychick74]

If I have already done the quest but more friends need help Why WOULDN't I use a mule?
If my character is on or my mule we take up that same amount of space.

 

[Goofy05]

If I have already done the quest but more friends need help Why WOULDN't I use a mule?
If my character is on or my mule we take up that same amount of space.

I'm assuming your question is directing towards me, so I'll answer.
You need to WIN pirates with 575 points. That isn't possible to do without all of the other players losing. Each mule you ran through used the rest of that team to pass pirates. How is that fair to me, assuming I may have been on that particular team, when I am presumably there to help first-time questers through that task? Do you see my point now? I'm not saying in any way that one of your mules was one that I helped through, it's a generalization. You are one of thousands of players. How many others used mules? We will never know. How many mules did I help get through? I will never know.

 

[TLinden16]

If I have already done the quest but more friends need help Why WOULDN't I use a mule?
If my character is on or my mule we take up that same amount of space.

I think you're still missing Greeniemimi's point on this one. Using your mule to help your friends along rather than your main character isn't the issue.

It's people using their mules to get themselves an extra set of the items (or two or three or more) so that the can in turn trade them to people who didn't have the skill or the time to get those items on their own for a high price. People who did that took up space in the lines and added to the crunch on VMK's servers for personal game, obviously not caring that there were others who were struggling to complete the quest for the first time.

I'm not knocking people who did the quest extra times for their kids. But people who got a set of these items to keep for themselves, and an extra set or two of items to trade to increase their virtual wealth by taking advantage of players who weren't able to complete the quest are just selfish, and greedy for adding to the lines when they knew full well that there were so many issues with getting into a pirates game and achieving the score.

I'm sure that there was a lot more muling going on then people will care to admit. I would have liked to have run a mule through the quest myself so that I could have used the items in my own quests in the future to give people another shot at them. But I wasn't going to do that knowing that there were still people other people who were still struggling for just a first chance to get it.

 

[redshoe]

I think a lot of you are missing the point. I'm not going to get into morals or ethics about greed, that's between you and your own conscience. My point was using others to get extra sets on mules. I was there to help people through a difficult quest and was excited for them when they passed pirates and mansion! Woohoo! That's an awesome feeling! BUT, now let's add the mules into the equation. I helped people I have never seen in game before through both pirates and mansion. How many of those were doing the quest a second or third time or more to win items purely for their own profit off of MY sweat? THOSE are the people who shouldn't be allowed to trade silver ears for blue stitch. I would assume most of the items for trade now were muled. Notice I did not say ALL, but look at some of the trade threads of people offering more than one of each item....

See, I don't believe I missed your point, although I could be wrong about that. I just don't think that muling the quest for profit was all that prevalent, simply because there wasn't time for it to be. It took too much time to put a character through once, let alone multiple times. Again, I'm sure it happened, but I don't see how it could possibly have been the norm at all.

Granted, I haven't been watching the trades board that closely, but I have been watching it. And the only extra item I've seen for trade has been the minnie hat. It's completely likely that people who already had one would now have another because of the quest, and they wouldn't have had to mule. Again, there probably have been a couple of posts offering more than one of each item (if there are, I've missed them), but that seems to be far, far less common than people who are simply trading quest items that they aren't going to use. I would have to disagree that MOST of the quest items up for trade right now were muled. A few, maybe, but not most. Do I think that muling for profit and potentially lowering the chances of getting through even once for others is an incredibly selfish thing to do? Absolutely. All I'm saying is that I don't think it can have been accomplished by more than a few people.

Blue stitch came into it, I believe, because someone mentioned how ridiculous it was that some of this stuff was going for blue stitch.

As for making ALL of the stuff buyable? I understand the disappointment of those who missed out, and the idea of making the items available to those who were cheated (yes, CHEATED...VMK, you are absolutely the LAST people to be lecturing your players on cheating, you hypocrites!) out of completing the quest. Believe me when I say that I did my level best to make sure that happened to as few people as I could. I went without sleep, food, showers, and several other essentials. I'm STILL having issues with the blood circulation in my right leg from sitting in the same position for so long, and firmly believe that the way that I was neglecting myself was the reason why my bout with the flu hung on for as long as it did. I put off doing homework. Except for the hour or so that it took me to get my 575 when my turn came up, this was all to help others get through...some of those people I knew well, but most I didn't, and I don't begrudge a single minute of it. I wish I could have done more. I wanted to see as many people receive those prizes as possible, and I wanted that very badly. On the other hand, making the items buyable now really would be just as unfair as ending the quest early was. In a way, it would make the winners' efforts worthless, too, and be yet another slap in the face from VMK. Not because it would decrease the rarity and value of the items, but because VMK would basically be saying, "We know you guys put all that blood, sweat and tears into getting your prize items, but guess what? You could have gotten all of the them at a few grand credits a pop rather than expending so much time and emotional (and even physical) energy on our travesty of a quest. Didn't know that going in? Too bad, so sad...you guys lose, too!"

Should some of it be buyable eventually? Yes!!! But not all of it (I tend to believe the silver ears shouldn't be...historically, ears have never been buyable and I don't think that should change), and not next week. There should at least be a decent period of time to let the hurt, exhaustion and frustration over the quest itself fade before the items go up for sale.

The real issue here is that VMK messed up so badly here that there is no way to fix it in a manner that would be fair to all of the players - both those who got through in time and those who didn't. That's not the fault of the winners. The blame should lie solely and squarely with VMK, and there's no way they can redeem themselves in this ridiculous and unfair situation they've created.

 

[Belle1997]

I think you're still missing Greeniemimi's point on this one. Using your mule to help your friends along rather than your main character isn't the issue.

It's people using their mules to get themselves an extra set of the items (or two or three or more) so that the can in turn trade them to people who didn't have the skill or the time to get those items on their own for a high price. People who did that took up space in the lines and added to the crunch on VMK's servers for personal game, obviously not caring that there were others who were struggling to complete the quest for the first time.

I'm not knocking people who did the quest extra times for their kids. But people who got a set of these items to keep for themselves, and an extra set or two of items to trade to increase their virtual wealth by taking advantage of players who weren't able to complete the quest are just selfish, and greedy for adding to the lines when they knew full well that there were so many issues with getting into a pirates game and achieving the score.

I'm sure that there was a lot more muling going on then people will care to admit. I would have liked to have run a mule through the quest myself so that I could have used the items in my own quests in the future to give people another shot at them. But I wasn't going to do that knowing that there were still people other people who were still struggling for just a first chance to get it.

That is how I see it. Yes I used a mule after Belle won the quest but Belle Played on one computer and my mule played on another computer each helping different teams. Never did I asked to get any of my mules though.

Or one was waiting with a pirate team while the other played ghosts to help.
Yes Title me scizo

I never thought once of putting through my mule and if I did I too would be gifting these items instead of trying to bid on ears for players who tired but could not get passed #16

I guess I look at it this way by playing a mule you may have taken up to an exta hour of play time but so did you team. And if truly done then there were 6 more people to help another team or person.

So by playing a mule it could of really taken up 6 hours if eveyone on went to another team and was the last person needed. And for the players that finished at 12:02 that hour made a difference.

My first goal was to make sure each family got one. Then each kids. I have no issue whats so ever of a family winning 5 times if they had both parents and 3 kids playing the result is the same each got one.

I also have no issue of people using mules to get stuff for others that could not get through and tried all weekend. Or were dumped over and over again by "friends"

But I will and will always have an issue will mules for profit on the grief of others. I was like this with dream ears and I guess I will be like this forever.

But I will not be mean to a player that does not see it this way.

That is there choice. There decision.

 

[Goofy05]

See, I don't believe I missed your point, although I could be wrong about that. I just don't think that muling the quest for profit was all that prevalent, simply because there wasn't time for it to be. It took too much time to put a character through once, let alone multiple times. Again, I'm sure it happened, but I don't see how it could possibly have been the norm at all.

Granted, I haven't been watching the trades board that closely, but I have been watching it. And the only extra item I've seen for trade has been the minnie hat. It's completely likely that people who already had one would now have another because of the quest, and they wouldn't have had to mule. Again, there probably have been a couple of posts offering more than one of each item (if there are, I've missed them), but that seems to be far, far less common than people who are simply trading quest items that they aren't going to use. I would have to disagree that MOST of the quest items up for trade right now were muled. A few, maybe, but not most.

Blue stitch came into it, I believe, because someone mentioned how ridiculous it was that some of this stuff was going for blue stitch.

First off, I apologize for cutting apart your response, but I wanted to addresss these issues separately. I'm sure mules weren't used as often as say, in the little host quests, because of the time involved, so yes, I agree it wasn't prevalent, but it was there. I saw some at work in the pirates lobby, but I'm not going to mention anyone's names here or in pm. There are always those who can get through a quest in amazingly short time frames, notice some had completed in one hour, 7 minutes. Not at all possible unless they had done the quest multiple times. Even then I have my doubts, but that was the top time, last I heard. I can even post direct links to trade threads offering more than 2 of the entire quest set, but they are easily seen if you choose to look for them. Those are the people who had to use others to acquire extra sets and those are the people I was directing my comments towards. The Dis is a small community in the vast realm of vmk players. A drop in the bucket. I haven't gone looking through trade threads on other fan sites, I don't want to. I have seen the popular rooms list on vmk loaded with players trading multiples of quest items, however.

As for making ALL of the stuff buyable? I understand the disappointment of those who missed out, and the idea of making the items available to those who were cheated (yes, CHEATED...VMK, you are absolutely the LAST people to be lecturing your players on cheating, you hypocrites!) out of completing the quest. Believe me when I say that I did my level best to make sure that happened to as few people as I could. I went without sleep, food, showers, and several other essentials. I'm STILL having issues with the blood circulation in my right leg from sitting in the same position for so long, and firmly believe that the way that I was neglecting myself was the reason why my bout with the flu hung on for as long as it did. I put off doing homework. Except for the hour or so that it took me to get my 575 when my turn came up, this was all to help others get through...some of those people I knew well, but most I didn't, and I don't begrudge a single minute of it. I wish I could have done more. I wanted to see as many people receive those prizes as possible, and I wanted that very badly. On the other hand, making the items buyable now really would be a slap in the face to those who did manage to complete the quest. In a way, it would make their efforts worthless, too, and be yet another slap in the face from VMK. Not because it would decrease the rarity and value of the items, but because VMK would basically be saying, "We know you guys put all that blood, sweat and tears into getting your prize items, but guess what? You could have gotten all of the them at a few grand credits a pop rather than expending so much time and emotional (and even physical) energy on our travesty of a quest. Didn't know that going in? Too bad, so sad...you guys lose, too!"

Should some of it be buyable eventually? Yes!!! But not all of it (I tend to believe the silver ears shouldn't be...historically, ears have never been buyable and I don't think that should change), and not next week. There should at least be a decent period of time to let the hurt, exhaustion and frustration over the quest itself fade before the items go up for sale.

The real issue here is that VMK messed up so badly here that there is no way to fix it in a manner that would be fair to all of the players - both those who got through in time and those who didn't. That's not the fault of the winners. The blame should lie solely and squarely with VMK, and there's no way they can redeem themselves in this ridiculous and unfair situation they've created.

I agree with this as well. VMK made a flawed quest and then cancelled it without notice, basically telling those who were nearly finished, "tough luck, you lose because Yavn said so, not because you couldn't pass the tasks."
I will also concede that letting a bit of time pass before offering them for sale would make more players who worked hard not feel as though they wasted valuable time and energy on that quest. The problem I do have with this is that it still gives those who muled time to trade their extras for other players' hard earned items.

 

[cteddiesgirl]

I'm assuming your question is directing towards me, so I'll answer.
You need to WIN pirates with 575 points. That isn't possible to do without all of the other players losing. Each mule you ran through used the rest of that team to pass pirates. How is that fair to me, assuming I may have been on that particular team, when I am presumably there to help first-time questers through that task? Do you see my point now? I'm not saying in any way that one of your mules was one that I helped through, it's a generalization. You are one of thousands of players. How many others used mules? We will never know. How many mules did I help get through? I will never know.

How do you know if the "mule" didn't help the people they were playing with? You will also never know that. In the middle of getting the quest done the first time, on monday night, I brought up one of my mules to do the quest too. But, it was only so I could give the prizes to my young Godchildren. I spent monday night helping a group of people, most of whom I didn't know, get through pirates. I never did get my turn to win.

And face it. Some people, no matter how much help they got, would never get through it. I know one such person. I and several others helped this person countless times in pirates. The person kept getting confused on what to do even though it was pretty much spelled out several times. Over and over again the person failed to do what was necessary. And therefore caused others that could do it, not get through. Should this person be chastised for even attempting what was actualy impossible for him/her? For clogging up the queues, lobbies and games? For preventing others from being able to finish? I'm sure there were many more like this person.

What's so bad about getting more stuff to trade? It spreads it around more.
Especially to people who couldn't complete it themselves.

What VMK did yesterday was insensitive to everyone that was still working on the quest. It should have ended at close just like it was originally planned for. But, I have a feeling that far too many people finished the quest to VMK's liking. And not just those using hacking and programs (ban these people forever) or those using mules.

As I stated in another thread, I believe they never expected more than 500 people tops to finish. But it was at least double that amount. And I believe in the 10 hours originally left, VMK knew that far more were going to finish. They had to stop that no matter the cost to people.

This entire problem has been vmk's fault. And I seriously doubt that 500 people used mules to complete the quest a second time.

 

[mouseman68]

I think a lot of you are missing the point. I'm not going to get into morals or ethics about greed, that's between you and your own conscience. My point was using others to get extra sets on mules. I was there to help people through a difficult quest and was excited for them when they passed pirates and mansion! Woohoo! That's an awesome feeling! BUT, now let's add the mules into the equation. I helped people I have never seen in game before through both pirates and mansion. How many of those were doing the quest a second or third time or more to win items purely for their own profit off of MY sweat? THOSE are the people who shouldn't be allowed to trade silver ears for blue stitch. I would assume most of the items for trade now were muled. Notice I did not say ALL, but look at some of the trade threads of people offering more than one of each item...

So shouldn't we ban the unfair trades for Red Baseball (also a quest) or even take is a step further for the eye pin (if you were lucky enough to get it from a host)?

I totally understand your anger. But I do not think it is right or fair to be angry at those that got the system to get pirates right away and played and played as many mules as they could to win something with value enough to obtain such other treasures that they otherwise never would get. I absolutely would only look for a stitch hat for my silver ears if I had extra as that is the only thing I own that has that value.

If you knew how to beat pirates right away and had the team work to do it, it was an easily achievable quest. It took a lot of thought, patience and team work to get by that quest and those that got it early like that and were able to do it more then once deserve to reap the awards of that work.

 

[Rygo]

I have to be honest, I skipped through a lot of this thread, so if I repeat anybody, I apologize now.
I got myself (and my team of seven) one set of the Blackheart Treasure, total about 58 hours for each of us. All seven of us then started helping as many players as we could get through the quest. I am sorry to say, but one of my friends is pretty sure he helped a mule through, only to realize it too late
That being said, a few of my team and I talked about doing it again for our mules, then decided it was not fair to the other players trying to get to pirates for our mules to be filling up the lobbies and the games, when we had already gotten on set and they had none.
Some have said about the time waiting to get into lobbies and hanging out with old and new friends was worth a lot too. I agree. I got to know my old friends even better, and now I can honestly say I have some great virtual friends!
For me, the time and frustration of my team waiting, crashing, finally getting in and then crashing, has made these items priceless to me. People ask if I am trading my ears or TDM and I say "sure! for twenty stitches, ten minnies, a gray mansion and green explorer" I am not saying that to be greedy...My grandpa always said "ask a silly question, get a silly answer" There is nothing on vmk that you can offer me that is worth the time, frustration, and finally pride when we made it, that my friends and I put into getting these items.

BUT! I collect magic...I would love for the magic we all won to be buyable, I dream about 5* lightening. I already have 5* invisibility and 5* fireworks (traded lots!! to get them), so I gave those that I won to friends who had nothing.
Do not make TDM, Minnie and the silver ears buyable (when have ANY ears been buyable in the game??) Let's try and keep some things rare...
I think Yavn said it best in the newsletter, those people with the mules (we all know who they are, they are the ones trading it all) ruined it for all the players that didn't get it because VMK ended the quest sooner then they had planned.
I do not take my TDM for granted, I love it more then I ever thought I could love a virtual item But I already have the items they are giving out, so what am I doing with everything I win??? I have a game room...and let me tell you...there are going to be some very excited game players getting the surprise of their life when instead of the usual pirate stuff (POTC trunks, posters, monkeys and organs) they see those dream ears as the prize. As long as they give out stuff in TDM that I either have or have no use for, it will be going into my prize quest machine for the winners Of Rygo's Race to Pirate Treasure.

 

[WDWTigger72]

*************************************************
*** Disclaimer - Long post ahead, about as long as the quest ***
**************************************************
Aloha Mimi, Been a while since we have chatted and most people here probably know I don't post comments or trade threads often but I really wanted to respond to the many great comments here. I will start with my own comment summary, and then respond to some member quotes below that either I agreed or disagreed with.
This thread looks like it could have gone many different directions regarding its message, but reviewing the initial poster's comments and subsequent comments it looks really like this is about muling for profit (greed) versus muling for charity/family (Generosity). I completely disagree with making all these items buyable for everybody, because for the people who did complete the quest it would be another slap in the face after some of the yavn speaks comments. I wanted to point out I didn't say those who worked hard to complete the quest, because many vmk'ers out there worked hard and never completed it. A possible solution would be to make only the new items (Treasure Detector Full Use, Lightning Magic Full Use, Silver Ears, etc) non-tradeable. Allow people who completed the quest to enjoy their newly aquired prizes for some time, and don't make any of these items tradeable until they are places on sale within the shops (This will happen based on previous experience!). Does this prevent the mules from obtaining 10, 15, 20 items? Nope, but it prevents the scenario of muling for profit (greed). Mimi, I just saw in your last post it looks like you agreed with a non-tradeable scenario from another disboard member but I was already responding to the original post before I refreshed.

There are so many directions this thread can go, but another point I saw was that the quest was flawed. My question back is was the quest flawed, vmk game itself flawed or vmk members playing flawed? Here are my points regarding this which are all around the pirate lobby since this is where many had their issues:

(1) The pirates game queue consistently had a queue between 20-45 people just for you to get into the lobby. This was ludicrous becuase you had to wait a substantial amount of time just to get into the lobby and who is to blame?

(2) The people who where coordinating within the pirate lobby for 30-45 minutes before starting a game. This happened all weekend, and was poor planning on many vmk'ers out there. Why not just go into another room and coordinate before coming into the pirate lobby.

(3) The people who where following other members into the game lobby instead of coordinating ahead of time (i.e. Go to NorthEast, Southwest, etc). Many times this left a large gap between team players causing other vmk'ers teams who where number 1, 2, 3 within the queue to wait. It became a ridiculous stalemate!

(4) The people who where playing against 6 or 8 friends or mules per game, and had only 5 or 7 of those team members come through to the pirate lobby because someone disconnected. Those team members would sit there and wait for a team member who was number 30 through 40 within the queue. While other teams within the pirate lobby couldn't play wiht their friends at number 1, 2, 3 within the queue. If your team member disconnects leave the lobby and coordinate, then all team members select a lobby and say "Go"...This way all team members come through together. OMG, Another ridiculous stalemate!

(5) When teams waited for their friends who where 10 in queue, and then when you played 4 vs 4 about 75% of your team crashing/disconnecting. I blame this one directly on vmk technical staff because this has happened forever in numerous games, and should have been resolved years ago.

(6) The limitation of having only so many pirate lobbies during these difficult or enormous quests. This is another thing I blame directly on the vmk technical staff. They should open up more available queues and limit other room queues not associated to this quest. For example, Allow only three queues for tomorrowland hub, and open the other queues for the pirate lobby. This may not be technically achievable but I can swear I have seen them open up more queues in the past. Although, The limiting queues seems to be common with quests for controlling mules or prizes given out it also just wastes time for people attempting to accomplish a task that maybe difficult.

(7) The people who agreed to play friendly pirates with a 6 or 8 team member, only to move along on their quest after accomplishing their 575 score. This happened quite a bit as I had friends asking me for assistance. This selfishness of let me get through the entire quest before it ends then I will help you, instead of let me get my team through then we can all complete together. Thanks gshawen for bringing this up below, I responded to your quote before placing this here as another point.

I have also seen many people saying they played 70+ hours during this quest, which is physically impossible when you figure out how long the quest ran:
03/29/2008 (Saturday = 15 Hours)
03/30/2008 (Sundday = 15 Hours)
03/31/2008 (Monday = 15 Hours)
04/01/2008 (Tuesday = 5 Hours)
50 Total Hours

We were talking about it tonight and we think VMK should have ended the quest for NEW questors, but left it open for those who had already started it. All day.

Disagree - This has been one of my initial thoughts through many quests, but after thinking about this it really doesn't resolve the issue of greed for profit. A muler would just start the quest on all their accounts, and therefore would still complete the quest on their 20 plus characters because the quest would never end for them.

In my opinion, which obviously many will disagree, the Blackheart quest items were the most difficult items to obtain in VMK history

Agree - This was probably the most difficult quest I have completed on vmk and honestly I like the difficult of it. I have been waiting a long time for vmk to come out with a quest that was really really really difficult, at least since the green car quest which many probably still haven't completed.

I see nothing wrong with somebody trading their quest items, to try and get something they dont have.

Disagree - I will be contradictory here since I sort of agree with your point, but the fact is that many mulers out there already have the items. These quests, mini-games, promotional games are usually just a catapult for these people to get more of what they already have obtained and that is why I disagree with your point. Instead of people who don't have certain items obtaining them from these quest prizes (Less Likely).

It's the ones that lied to other people and said help me through and I will help the rest of you get through, only to never show up again that I hope get scammed out of their items.

Agree - Holy macoroni, You have no idea how many stories I heard through friends that people just moved along once they passed the pirates 575 score intead of getting all 6 or 8 team members through. Although, I don't hope on anybody that they get scammed out of their items, I think that this was complete selfishness on some with two days left on the quest instead of getting other team members through. This could actually be another point above for me regarding possible flaws with quest, game or people.

So my baseball team...Lets say The red sox...they play an entire season of baseball and work hard all season just like every other team in the league but then playoff time comes and they STILL play hard but another team plays harder and wins the World Series trophy...Everyone else played just as hard shouldn't everyone get one?

Agree - Playing sports all my life I could definitely associate to this scenario, and it was a great point I really really really liked this point. By the way, Go, Sox!

I would like to see these items be released so that more players have the ability to give it.

Disagree - I read many of your points which I enjoyed reading and thought the points where very insightful, but have to disagree with my points at the beginning of my post.

I said this on another thread, but I'll say it here as well. I would love to see VMK release TDM in a quest that is challenging but acheivable, and give folks a good chunk of time to complete it.

As for the other items, release at double or triple the cost of regular items. Make people save for them. Make them earn them. But make those costs achievable.

Agree - I think the quest should have been a longer quest, maybe even over an entire week due to the poor coordination of many team members and technical limitations within vmk...I don't agree though with releasing these items just yet...See initial comments at top of post. Great responses by the way TLinden16...

 

[BriarRosie]

I see there are a lot of different views about what's considered a mule for these purposes.

If you bring on a mule so you can fill a team to help someone's main character to finish, the mule doesn't profit from it. This character is acting as a "sitting duck" for the purpose of pushing someone else through the task.
I don't have a problem with this. Once the main characters are passed, the mule can return to the stables.

If you're a parent with a kid you know wouldn't pass pirates on their own and you play their character for them....and your child actively uses their character, that's not using a mule for profit. I have no problem for family members who will sign on their kids' characters if their kids play VMK at least a few times a month. I would consider them all "main accounts".

If the parent brings on a child's character and the child does not actively play VMK anymore, I consider that a mule who profits. If the kids never sign into their accounts but the parents maintain them, the kids' accounts have turned into mules.

And obviously, if you have a secondary mule account and you put your main account AND your mule through, it is for profit. Even if you wanted to share the wealth with others, I think the mules should have stayed in the stable unless they were used as sitting ducks to push other people's main characters through task #16.

We all know the quest was time consuming enough (58 hours here), and I am also among the Great Unwashed who went without showers, food, etc. I would be disappointed if I knew I was pushing someone's mule through and NOT main account.

Do I want these items sold? Absolutely! While the stress of this weekend took its toll on all of us, I do want those who didn't finish to be able to purchase the items we worked for. Some of those players worked just as hard as I did and did not finish.

So what if those who didn't bother playing the quest get a crack at buying the items? I don't care about those people. I care about the people who were royally screwed by their time and generosity rewarded with a kick in the pants when the quest was shut down early. These people deserve a chance to buy the items, IMHO.

 

[Goofy05]

How do you know if the "mule" didn't help the people they were playing with? You will also never know that.

You asked this after posting a quote from me that directly addressed this?

So shouldn't we ban the unfair trades for Red Baseball (also a quest) or even take is a step further for the eye pin (if you were lucky enough to get it from a host)?

I totally understand your anger. But I do not think it is right or fair to be angry at those that got the system to get pirates right away and played and played as many mules as they could to win something with value enough to obtain such other treasures that they otherwise never would get. I absolutely would only look for a stitch hat for my silver ears if I had extra as that is the only thing I own that has that value.

If you knew how to beat pirates right away and had the team work to do it, it was an easily achievable quest. It took a lot of thought, patience and team work to get by that quest and those that got it early like that and were able to do it more then once deserve to reap the awards of that work.

The Red Baseball Quests did not require using other people to obtain an extra set.
I'm done beating this horse. It seems some have seen my point, others have not and that's fine by me. Continue this thread if you wish, I will no longer bother posting to it. I've said my piece and can sleep at night with a clear conscience.

 

[Belle1997]

03/29/2008 (Saturday = 15 Hours)
03/30/2008 (Sundday = 15 Hours)
03/31/2008 (Monday = 15 Hours)
04/01/2008 (Tuesday = 5 Hours)
50 Total Hours


I think what some meant was it took them 70 hours to complete the quest as the quest is still running when VMK is down.

Wondering who the slowest player was they should be rewards for there perseverance.

 

[mtlhddoc2]

You asked this after posting a quote from me that directly addressed this?



The Red Baseball Quests did not require using other people to obtain an extra set.
I'm done beating this horse. It seems some have seen my point, others have not and that's fine by me. Continue this thread if you wish, I will no longer bother posting to it. I've said my piece and can sleep at night with a clear conscience.

People see your point, but you missed it.

With us, noone used us to win and we used noone to win. We used ourselves. And in the middle, helped others, our group stayed pretty much together the whole weekend. And from what I say, most groups were the same way. Whether they were using mules or not.