Boston Globe Article: WDW trip planning

[Luckybee]

Totally agree. I really had to trim ADR's on our park days, it was a royal pain to work around them, and impossible to change times. When you make ADR's months in advance it's like working with a blindfold on. Until the 60/30 day window opens you have no clue if FP+ times will conflict with ADR's.
We are going with extended family; and because there are very young children in our group I had to give top priority to FP+.

As much as I dislike the fp+ system if given a choice between fp+ being revamped and the adr system I say change the adr's. We never ever ever end up with the dinners we want or when we want them. Our last trip and this one coming the 2 things we most wanted were BOG, and the Wishes dessert party. Last trip I didn't plan early enough for BOG, and was sick Dessert pty day so had to cancel. This trip I booked bog for 2 different days, neither of which ended up working for us once our actual trip plans were finalized so I had to let them go. In my mind it is just nuts to have to book dinners prior to a time when most people book flights and hotels.

 

[TXAKDisneyFan]

We have never done any planning outside of making our lodging reservation. That was it. We'd wake up in the morning, decide what we wanted to do. Sometimes we'd just get in the car and drive, see where we ended up. Eat wherever. It was great.

My family and I are the kind of people who wouldn't be happy going to a vacation destination and missing attractions/sights. Wherever we go, we research the 'best' restaurants, beaches, daily hours for sights, tips, safety information, etc. I've been on more 'fly-by-the-seat-of-our-pants' vacations and was disappointed when we missed things because they were closed, etc. So for us, a WDW takes planning, but so does ANY vacation.

Others (like your family, it sounds like), are okay with taking a more relaxed approach to touring even if it means missing things. Aside from resort reservations, you don't HAVE to plan a WDW vacation, either. Before we knew all of the ins and outs of WDW vacations, we'd book our resort, get park hopper tickets, and decide which park to go to each morning (and hop frequently). Sometimes we'd go to a park based on what bus was there first. Making ADRs and FP+ reservations is an optional way of hopefully maximizing what you see and do.

That's part of why I think WDW vacations actually take a little less planning than other vacations - there are fewer resorts to pick from than hotels in a city (and any WDW resort will ultimately be ok, whereas you're really rolling the dice with city hotels in terms of safety, amenities, transportation, cleanliness, etc). Other than picking a WDW resort, you can do as much or as little planning as you want, and you're still basically guaranteed to be safe. On non-WDW vacations, we've had to brave some seedy areas to get to attractions/restaurants, and that doesn't really happen at WDW.

I'm also of the attitude that if we miss a FP+ reservation, then it's no big deal. I'm not going to stress about making it to all of them, especially if we're having fun doing something else.

 

[JimmyV]

At least then I wouldn't be 10 rows back, trying to crane my neck to see the Mona Lisa.

We got to the Louvre 20 minutes before "Rope Drop" on Thanksgiving Day (which, of course, is just any old Thursday in France), and dashed to the room with the Mona Lisa and were alone in that room for 15-20 minutes before the next people arrived. It was magical. So years and years of planning for trips to WDW with military precision does pay off at times. And for The David, you can (and should) get a "FP Time" in order to bypass the line.

 

[TXAKDisneyFan]

We got to the Louvre 20 minutes before "Rope Drop" on Thanksgiving Day (which, of course, is just any old Thursday in France), and dashed to the room with the Mona Lisa and were alone in that room for 15-20 minutes before the next people arrived. It was magical. So years and years of planning for trips to WDW with military precision does pay off at times. And for The David, you can (and should) get a "FP Time" in order to bypass the line.

Ten rows back might even be a conservative estimate about how far back we were on our first visit (which was also in November, but a couple days after Thanksgiving).

Last summer, we went to DC during spring break; luckily, we've been numerous other times, because the lines everywhere were ridiculous. I'm not saying the system is perfect, but at least at WDW we can see standby waits, skip a couple lines with FP, or just go back to our nice, themed pool if the crowds are too crazy.

 

[mshanson3121]

I believe you but I'm just curious, where are you speaking of?

Any place we've ever gone. I'm not talking European vacations or Disney (we've never done those). But any other place where there's been theme parks, scenic things etc.

 

[mshanson3121]

My family and I are the kind of people who wouldn't be happy going to a vacation destination and missing attractions/sights. Wherever we go, we research the 'best' restaurants, beaches, daily hours for sights, tips, safety information, etc. I've been on more 'fly-by-the-seat-of-our-pants' vacations and was disappointed when we missed things because they were closed, etc. So for us, a WDW takes planning, but so does ANY vacation.

Others (like your family, it sounds like), are okay with taking a more relaxed approach to touring even if it means missing things. Aside from resort reservations, you don't HAVE to plan a WDW vacation, either. Before we knew all of the ins and outs of WDW vacations, we'd book our resort, get park hopper tickets, and decide which park to go to each morning (and hop frequently). Sometimes we'd go to a park based on what bus was there first. Making ADRs and FP+ reservations is an optional way of hopefully maximizing what you see and do.

That's part of why I think WDW vacations actually take a little less planning than other vacations - there are fewer resorts to pick from than hotels in a city (and any WDW resort will ultimately be ok, whereas you're really rolling the dice with city hotels in terms of safety, amenities, transportation, cleanliness, etc). Other than picking a WDW resort, you can do as much or as little planning as you want, and you're still basically guaranteed to be safe. On non-WDW vacations, we've had to brave some seedy areas to get to attractions/restaurants, and that doesn't really happen at WDW.

I'm also of the attitude that if we miss a FP+ reservation, then it's no big deal. I'm not going to stress about making it to all of them, especially if we're having fun doing something else.

I think a lot of it boils down to attitude and appreciation, too. I appreciate seeing what we can. Why waste time worrying or being upset about what you didn't see? Be thankful for what you got to see.

Planning this trip has been eye opening and quite frankly, stressful by times, because it is so outside of what we are used to. DH especially is just blown away by the planning, and I know he wishes we were going elsewhere, someplace simpler where we could just wing it. We in no way expect to see everything and that's fine. Our planning is due to the fact that this will be unlike any place we've ever been as far as size, crowds, sensory overload, and we have two kids with SN. Therefore we're trying to make sure it's the easiest trip possible for the kids. And as much fun as I'm sure we'll have, I'll be grateful for next year's spontaneous, plan-free vacation.

 

[mshanson3121]

As much as I dislike the fp+ system if given a choice between fp+ being revamped and the adr system I say change the adr's. We never ever ever end up with the dinners we want or when we want them. Our last trip and this one coming the 2 things we most wanted were BOG, and the Wishes dessert party. Last trip I didn't plan early enough for BOG, and was sick Dessert pty day so had to cancel. This trip I booked bog for 2 different days, neither of which ended up working for us once our actual trip plans were finalized so I had to let them go. In my mind it is just nuts to have to book dinners prior to a time when most people book flights and hotels.

I agree with this. It seems insane that people have to make dinner reservations months in advance of their FP+, and then may have to forfeit the reservation, because it doesn't work out with their FP.

 

[greeneave]

Could you explain how 3, hour long FP+ reservations makes you feel you need to schedule down to the minute?

when i go i will have dinner reservations for a restaurant at animal kingdom lodge on thursday and dinner reservations for an epcot restaurant on friday.

since we're staying at the poly i need to book our fp+ choices for thursday to give us enough time to do what we want in animal kingdom park but also wrap us up in time for our 7:20 reservation at jiko. so, do we do an early visit, take the bus back to the poly then the bus back to akl for our dinner or do we get to animal kingdom in the afternoon and hang out until around our reservation time.

conversely, since we are at a monorail hotel, should we book out epcot fp+ choices in the morning, go do something else for the bulk of the day and then mosey back to epcot in time for our 8pm dinner reservation? i at least knew enough to slot all of this in for the day that epcot has magic hours, so we should have about 2 hours after dinner to hit anything we may have missed in the morning.

wednesday is easy, since we'll spend all day and night in magic kingdom, with no dinner reservations, so i just booked our fp+ choices to occur between 1:30 and 5:30pm.

also, we've never done disney world before, so how much time do we need between each fp+ choice? an hour? 2 hours? we only have 3 days' worth of park hopper passes, so having to be tied to both fp+ choices AND dinner reservations makes slotting in a visit to hollywood studios and downtown disney (though i'm not really pressed about that) not as easy as if we could just roll in and out at will.

 

[TXAKDisneyFan]

I agree with this. It seems insane that people have to make dinner reservations months in advance of their FP+, and then may have to forfeit the reservation, because it doesn't work out with their FP.

I think maybe Disney opens the ADRs 180 days in advance to encourage people to book their vacations early. And maybe booking ADRs sort of 'locks in' guests - perhaps they're less likely to cancel their vacation if they've already done some planning?

From a guest standpoint, making dinner reservations 6 months in advance is pretty ridiculous. We did book our vacation about a year ahead of time, but I know a lot of people who can't plan vacations more than a few months out because of work schedules. We'd also be more likely to book 'last minute' WDW vacations if it weren't for the 180 day window.

I'd rather make ADRs than miss out on restaurants I really want to try, or waste time waiting hours for a table. But it'd be better to make those ADRs closer to the actual vacation.

 

[TXAKDisneyFan]

when i go i will have dinner reservations for a restaurant at animal kingdom lodge on thursday and dinner reservations for an epcot restaurant on friday.

so, since we're staying at the poly i need to book our fp+ choices for thursday to give us enough time to do what we want in animal kingdom park but also wrap us up in time for our 7:20 reservation at jiko. so, do we do an early visit, take the bus back to the poly then the bus back to akl for our dinner or do we get to animal kingdom in the afternoon and hang out until around our reservation time.

conversely, since we are at a monorail hotel, should we book out epcot fp+ choices in the morning, go do something else for the bulk of the day and then mosey back to epcot in time for our 8pm dinner reservation? i at least knew enough to slot all of this in for the day that epcot has magic hours, so we should have about 2 hours after dinner to hit anything we may have missed in the morning. wednesday is easy, since we'll spend all day and night in magic kingdom, with no dinner reservations, so i just booked our fp+ choices to occur between 1:30 and 5:30pm.

also, we've never done disney world before, so how much time do we need between each fp+ choice? an hour? 2 hours? we only have 3 days' worth of park hopper passes, so having to be tied to both fp+ choices AND dinner reservations makes slotting in a visit to hollywood studios and downtown disney (though i'm not really pressed about that) not as easy as if we could just roll in and out at will.

FP+ are one-hour windows. The windows can't overlap, but you don't have to have time between them. (For instance, our Expedition Everest window is from 1:30-2:30, and Kilimanjaro Safaris is from 2:30-3:30.)

Personally, we like AK enough that we'll probably spend all day there before our 7:10pm Boma reservations. Others think of it more as a 'half day' park and wouldn't stay from morning until close. Since you've never been to WDW before, it's hard to know how much time you'll need at each park.

 

[greeneave]

i was there in 1977 (when it was only the magic kingdom) and i loved it and then i was there this past november, but it was for work so i literally only got to spend 3 hours at mk (by myself) and a night of drinking with co-owrkers at epcot. i'm really excited for my family to spend a few days there. our reservation at akl is at jiko and i really would like to eat there. our last fp+ slot is for dinosaur, between 6-7pm. if we get to it on the early side, do you think we'll be able to get to jiko in time for our 7:20 reservation?

and i'm more concerned about having to rush from one end of the park to the other, trying to make our timeslots.

FP+ are one-hour windows. The windows can't overlap, but you don't have to have time between them. (For instance, our Expedition Everest window is from 1:30-2:30, and Kilimanjaro Safaris is from 2:30-3:30.)

Personally, we like AK enough that we'll probably spend all day there before our 7:10pm Boma reservations. Others think of it more as a 'half day' park and wouldn't stay from morning until close. Since you've never been to WDW before, it's hard to know how much time you'll need at each park.

 

[mshanson3121]

All of this pre-planning insanity makes me wonder just how many Disney fans beyond the the Disboards are also 'tearing their hair out', and how many of us will be spending less time and money at Disney in the future. As much as I love my Disney vacations, I would have to say that FP+ has forever altered my overall vacation planning experience which I used to enjoy.

We won't go again. I know lots of people on here will say, "Oh you say that now!", but NO, we won't. There are a few reasons, but one is because we have no desire to repeat a trip of this magnitude. The planning this trip is requiring has me half-wishing we were going somewhere else as it is - and we haven't even left yet! And I LOVE Disney, and have been before, so unfortunately I can compare it to before FP+, and honestly, one of my biggest fears is of being disappointed because of the loss of spontaneity, how insanely busy it may be etc... I'm glad we're giving this experience to our children, I really am, and they of course will not know the difference, so I'll find my enjoyment in theirs. But I have no desire to repeat it. There are so many other wonderful, amazing options out there, that are cheaper, and far easier. Heck, we're driving clear across Canada next summer, and that trip will require nowhere near as much planning as this 10 day vacation.

 

[Angel Ariel]

I've personally found there to be much more planning involved in going to WDW than almost any other vacation I've taken. I visited DH (then DF) in Germany when he was stationed there. We did not even have hotels booked 6 months in advance, much less meals. We took a train to France, saw the Eiffel Tower, went to the Louvre (saw the Mona Lisa & others easily), went to Versailles, Notre Dame...all of this decided on and done when we were in Paris. On a separate visit to Germany to see him, we went to Garmisch (saw Neuschwanstein, the inspiration for SB castle),and Berlin - again, very little preplanning involved. Much less preplanning than WDW, and it was all done much closer to the trip than the 180 ADR mark (much of it being *during* the trip).

I went to NYC at the end of February. Hotel had been booked maybe 2 weeks prior to the trip for a well known hotel in Times Square, for less than $200/night. Was just as nice as our YC room in November for less than 1/2 the cost. NJ Transit ticket to get there was day of. Made dinner reservations after arriving in NYC for a great Japanese restaurant right by our theatre less than 2 hrs prior to the reservation time. We had bought tickets earlier that month for the show (If/Then), but only because there was a Living Social deal that allowed us to get front row center seats at a great discount. Tickets were available day of at TKTS for 40% off. We spent the afternoon at the Museum of Natural History - again, not decided until we arrived in the city and checked into our hotel.

We did DLR on less than a week's notice in 2011. Had no problems getting a reservation for Blue Bayou (for waterside table), Napa Rose or the Ariel's Grotto WOC dinner...whereas at WDW for restaurants of similar popularity, they're gone well before the visit actually begins (at least, that has been our personal experience with restaurants like California Grill, Akershus/CRT, BOG - restaurants I would say are equivalent experiences to the DLR restaurants mentioned).

I don't deny that there's a certain amount of planning to other vacations as well - all vacations have similar hotel/transportation requirements, IMO. For *us* we have found that no trip other than WDW includes so much planning of the time each day (beyond a general outline). We do it because we understand the trade-off at WDW, and do not wish to roll the dice on the WDW experience, so it's definitely our choice. But we definitely do not find that the same level of planning is involved for everywhere else we have gone.

 

[Jing]

We got to the Louvre 20 minutes before "Rope Drop" on Thanksgiving Day (which, of course, is just any old Thursday in France), and dashed to the room with the Mona Lisa and were alone in that room for 15-20 minutes before the next people arrived. It was magical. So years and years of planning for trips to WDW with military precision does pay off at times. And for The David, you can (and should) get a "FP Time" in order to bypass the line.

Ditto for us for Santaland at Macy's in NYC this past Christmas season. I basically planned my trip around it.

 

[capegirl]

I understand...it is a heck of a lot of work to make a Disney vacation come together for your family, and I agree, no other vacation that we have ever taken has required this level of advance planning. Granted, Disney will never run out 'guests', but it remains to be seen how many of these guests will actually return.

 

[BugsDaddy]

With all of the long term Disney "fans" not returning and all of the planning involved turning off all of the new visitors, I wonder who all those people are on all of those rides, waiting at the gates for rope drop, filling all of those Disney resorts? Not only that but wiling to pay a premium to go to this "hell on earth" place. Most of those people must be planted by Disney in order to make everything look busier. It couldn't be that, despite all the comments to the contrary, Disney is as popular as ever and growing at such a rate that Disney can't even catch up to it. I am glad that Universal doesn't have this type of problem with crowds and so forth....

 

[Cormoran]

I understand...it is a heck of a lot of work to make a Disney vacation come together for your family, and I agree, no other vacation that we have ever taken has required this level of advance planning. Granted, Disney will never run out 'guests', but it remains to be seen how many of these guests will actually return.

That's the big question. On top of that, we're on a Disney fan site because we love WDW and dreaming about our next vacations. If I. as a fan, think the planning is overwhelming, what does the average guest think?

 

[greeneave]

I think a lot of it boils down to attitude and appreciation, too. I appreciate seeing what we can. Why waste time worrying or being upset about what you didn't see? Be thankful for what you got to see.

Planning this trip has been eye opening and quite frankly, stressful by times, because it is so outside of what we are used to. DH especially is just blown away by the planning, and I know he wishes we were going elsewhere, someplace simpler where we could just wing it. We in no way expect to see everything and that's fine. Our planning is due to the fact that this will be unlike any place we've ever been as far as size, crowds, sensory overload, and we have two kids with SN. Therefore we're trying to make sure it's the easiest trip possible for the kids. And as much fun as I'm sure we'll have, I'll be grateful for next year's spontaneous, plan-free vacation.

i hope your kids (and your husband and yourself, of course) have a wonderful time at disney. i can only imagine how much you've been agonizing over everything, trying to make sure it's optimal for everyone.

 

[Jennytoon]

But in the end your example of "I will 'spontaneously' pick a ride in tomorrow land because I have to be there to make my FP+ appointment at 2pm anyway" is a perfect example of why that decision is not spontaneous, nor is their riding of the FP+ attraction. There is some element of spontaneity, but if you are eliminating other options due to something you already have planned the decision isn't really spontaneous.

I actually really disagree with this. Perhaps it is just an issue with a miscommunication related to how I stated it, but the reason I am willing to allow this is that *all* decisions made in the moment are affected by constraints of some kind, whether it be park location, wait times, how much you want to walk to something you are interested in, what you think you might want to do afterwards, etc. Even more specifically, the decision about staying in a location was often cited by FP- users as a way to avoid criss-crossing the parks, so I feel strongly that if you can call that decision spontaneous when you are holding a paper FP in your hand, you have to allow it when holding a virtual one as well. This is my opinion, though (that it's fair to call that spontaneous in either case) and I think I partly included it to paint a picture of a touring style I thought many people could relate to or visualize easily. It's not necessary to allow location-based decisions to be called spontaneous for the comparison to work, as long as they are either "spontaneous" or "not spontaneous" in both the FP+ and FP- scenarios.

That doesn't change the -fact- that their day is less spontaneous, we aren't talking about feelings here, we are talking about facts. Like I said, people MAY actually ENJOY this, they might feel better about the rest of their vacation, they might relax more knowing they have those 3 rides locked in via FP+, but that does NOT increase the spontaneity of a trip, it is the exact opposite. These people probably need a better word to describe what they are trying to convey.

I'm not sure I agree with this either, but please allow me to address it in my reply to Mesaboy, in the interest of compactness.

You talk about the fact that for some people they may feel more spontaneous because they aren't making other plans, or backup plans etc .... but other people will feel the exact opposite, they will -feel- less spontaneous (even when they have breaks in the day to make spontaneous decisions) because in a few hours they have something planned, etc etc. Set aside those feelings, because they cancel each other out, all things held equal.

I don't believe I said (and certainly didn't intend to) that other people wouldn't feel that their experience was less spontaneous or have an opposite reaction. It's obvious to me how that would be true. My scenario was only in response to Mesaboy's statement about not understanding how people could report that FP+ improved [their perception of] spontaneity. I was never trying to say "no people find the experience less spontaneous". I was only ever trying to say "here is how people could report that they had a more spontaneous experience". I was addressing the fact of what some people were reporting, not attempting to say what I think everyone should be feeling.

 

[Shaden]

I actually really disagree with this. Perhaps it is just an issue with a miscommunication related to how I stated it, but the reason I am willing to allow this is that *all* decisions made in the moment are affected by constraints of some kind, whether it be park location, wait times, how much you want to walk to something you are interested in, what you think you might want to do afterwards, etc. Even more specifically, the decision about staying in a location was often cited by FP- users as a way to avoid criss-crossing the parks, so I feel strongly that if you can call that decision spontaneous when you are holding a paper FP in your hand, you have to allow it when holding a virtual one as well. This is my opinion, though (that it's fair to call that spontaneous in either case) and I think I partly included it to paint a picture of a touring style I thought many people could relate to or visualize easily. It's not necessary to allow location-based decisions to be called spontaneous for the comparison to work, as long as they are either "spontaneous" or "not spontaneous" in both the FP+ and FP- scenarios.



I'm not sure I agree with this either, but please allow me to address it in my reply to Mesaboy, in the interest of compactness.



I don't believe I said (and certainly didn't intend to) that other people wouldn't feel that their experience was less spontaneous or have an opposite reaction. It's obvious to me how that would be true. My scenario was only in response to Mesaboy's statement about not understanding how people could report that FP+ improved [their perception of] spontaneity. I was never trying to say "no people find the experience less spontaneous". I was only ever trying to say "here is how people could report that they had a more spontaneous experience". I was addressing the fact of what some people were reporting, not attempting to say what I think everyone should be feeling.

But that isn't what we were arguing, or what mesaboy was arguing. Its not about how people "feel" per se. Its about fact. If I increase the price 100% and then discount it 50% some people FEEL they are getting a great deal. They aren't, they are paying the same as they would have been before, now disguised. It doesn't matter if some people "feel" their trip is more spontaneous ... it ISN"T.