Boston Globe Article: WDW trip planning

[goofy4tink]

I know that all the people I know that are Disney 'nut's, and believe me, that's a ton of people, all tell those new to WDW to plan, plan, plan. Not a one of us feels that you can go to WDW without some kind of plan. I've been saying it since I got home from my first trip...in '99. That 3 hr wait for Splash Mt cured me of spontaneity!!!! I had no idea what it would be like in the MK on a Sat afternoon, around 2!!! I sure learned quickly!!
With all the guide books and all the on-line sources for touring plans, I have to believe that most people plan...at least to some extent.
But...that's just my experience. Others may have other experiences. But, just because you have a different experience does not negate mine.

 

[IrishNYC]

We were thinking of a trip in early May, we've been many times before but not in the past few years. Given we are inside of two months I think we will pass seeing we already lost out on the 60 window for Fast Pass Plus.

This is one of the comments from the original article. How many people are like them? They arrive at WDW thinking that it is a typical amusement park and not realizing that they should have made FP+ reservations ahead of time. Most likely there is still availability for FP+ in the MK for the evening, but what about the other parks? Yes, we are all Disney nerds on these boards, but we make up a very small percentage of WDW's daily attendance. I'll bet it's the off-site guests who are the losers in this scenario.

I've seen a lot of posts that say FP+ was implemented because people complain about long lines. But FP+ is only going to help people who have done there research, not for the people who arrive at the gates with no prior knowledge. This group of guests may not be satisfied with their WDW visit and I can't picture the CMs telling these guests that it's their own fault for not doing the research.

But this person does realize that they should have made FP+ plans ahead, but because they're within their 60 day window already, they think it's not worth the trouble.

I think someone that already has a trip booked, especially an on-site stay, would have to be willfully blind to not know about FP+. If you book through Disney it's all over the website, and it's in all the literature you receive. Many people even receive a schedule from Disney with key dates for each step. I didn't receive that, but about 10 days before my FP+ date I received a booklet from Disney that had the date on the front, and explained FP+. I also booked through a TA who reminded me of the date a few days in advance. She was willing to do some FP+ planning for me if I was interested, but instead she looked over the plans I made and made some suggestions for me. Even if you book through an impersonal online TA like Orbitz it says right in their info as you're booking that buying tickets will enable you to book rides in advance with FP+.



While making FP+ plans as soon as your reservation allows is a must, I'm not sold on ADRs being entirely necessary at 180 days. I didn't even book our vacation until we were at 140 days, and I got every single ADR I wanted. I didn't want BOG dinner, and maybe I couldn't have booked it, but at about 140 days I got CRT, Akershus, and Chef Mickey all at my desired times (lunch, lunch, breakfast x2), then with some persistence I was able to move CRT to a pre-opening breakfast. I got all of my other desired ADRs and have even changed some several times, including yesterday, and we are at 30-something days out. So, maybe you should book character meals closer to 180 days out, and some of the more desired restaurants for viewing Illuminations at Epcot (I wasn't interested, so I don't really know about that), but unless you are adamant that you must eat at XYZ restaurant at a very very specific time, or you're going during Christmas or other extreme crowd periods, IMO the need to heed warnings about making ADRs at 180 days is a bit overblown.

 

[Shaden]

I know that all the people I know that are Disney 'nut's, and believe me, that's a ton of people, all tell those new to WDW to plan, plan, plan. Not a one of us feels that you can go to WDW without some kind of plan. I've been saying it since I got home from my first trip...in '99. That 3 hr wait for Splash Mt cured me of spontaneity!!!! I had no idea what it would be like in the MK on a Sat afternoon, around 2!!! I sure learned quickly!!
With all the guide books and all the on-line sources for touring plans, I have to believe that most people plan...at least to some extent.
But...that's just my experience. Others may have other experiences. But, just because you have a different experience does not negate mine.

I am not negating your experience ... I am negating your assertion that for every person who thinks its too much planning there is another person who thinks its fine.

 

[Cormoran]

I know that all the people I know that are Disney 'nut's, and believe me, that's a ton of people, all tell those new to WDW to plan, plan, plan. Not a one of us feels that you can go to WDW without some kind of plan. I've been saying it since I got home from my first trip...in '99. That 3 hr wait for Splash Mt cured me of spontaneity!!!! I had no idea what it would be like in the MK on a Sat afternoon, around 2!!! I sure learned quickly!!
With all the guide books and all the on-line sources for touring plans, I have to believe that most people plan...at least to some extent.
But...that's just my experience. Others may have other experiences. But, just because you have a different experience does not negate mine.

The only Disney savvy people I know are on these boards. When my extended family goes to WDW they call me for advice. The last time my sister went, she called me as she was entering the MK, and that was her idea of planning ahead.

I think being on these boards skews our opinions about how others view WDW vacation planning.

 

[ckelly14]

I did see you post....that's what prompted me to tell my story. With FP- for MY FAMILY it was all about getting the next "ticket to ride". He who had the most FP- at the end of the day won! Just as you had hypothesized, my mind was always racing with where do we go next? How can I "optimize" our day? Rather than just enjoying the moment, part of my brain was always thinking about our next move. With FP+, at least in our particular example, we couldn't collect 4th and 5th FP+. The parade was at 3:00. The Mine Train had to be at night (per request of my son). Elsa and Anna (which happened to be in the am) was not moveable. So our entire mindset changed. We couldn't "collect" any more FP, so there wasn't the self-imposed "pressure" to do so. I could just fully be in the moment. Before going into the day I knew that everyone in our group was going to get to do the 1 thing they really wanted to do and that everyone would be satisfied, no matter what else we did. That opened the rest of our day up to one spontaneous move after another.

I 100% agree with this. I feel less pressure now since I know that at least some of my favorite rides are a done deal with little waiting. I was always stressed out to be in the park as early as possible with the previous FP model. Sure, I could use 5 or 6 FP's in MK, but overall I enjoy the new system.

Compared to previous Disney trips prior to 2010 when I joined these boards, planning has made my trips much more pleasurable. I don't really see the pleasure in "spontaneously" looking for an ADR at the last minute, or standing in line for an hour, but that's me.

I went to Yellowstone in July and I was on the phone at exactly 10 AM on May 1st the year before to get the dates I wanted at the Old Faithful Inn and Lake Yellowstone Inn. Most dates were sold out by the end of the day. Sometimes special places require advanced planning. This will be the case whenever the number of people >> the number of available slots for anything.

 

[mom2rtk]

The last time my sister went, she called me as she was entering the MK, and that was her idea of planning ahead.

That just made me giggle. I bet there are a decent number of others like her out there.

 

[Cormoran]

I 100% agree with this. I feel less pressure now since I know that at least some of my favorite rides are a done deal with little waiting. I was always stressed out to be in the park as early as possible with the previous FP model. Sure, I could use 5 or 6 FP's in MK, but overall I enjoy the new system.

Compared to previous Disney trips prior to 2010 when I joined these boards, planning has made my trips much more pleasurable. I don't really see the pleasure in "spontaneously" looking for an ADR at the last minute, or standing in line for an hour, but that's me.

I went to Yellowstone in July and I was on the phone at exactly 10 AM on May 1st the year before to get the dates I wanted at the Old Faithful Inn and Lake Yellowstone Inn. Most dates were sold out by the end of the day. Sometimes special places require advanced planning. This will be the case whenever the number of people >> the number of available slots for anything.

However with Yellowstone, did you have to reserve your time to view Old Faithful?
It's not the trip planning I resent, it's the level of trip planning. I want to make vacation plans ahead of time because I always want to anticipate my next great adventure. But to me, making ride reservations 60 days out is ridiculous.

 

[mom2rtk]

However with Yellowstone, did you have to reserve your time to view Old Faithful?
It's not the trip planning I resent, it's the level of trip planning. I want to make vacation plans ahead of time because I always want to anticipate my next great adventure. But to me, making ride reservations 60 days out is ridiculous.

That's a key difference. And if you want, you can hang around, walk the trail of geysers in the area, then come back and see Old Faithful go off again.

And I will add that my private viewing of Castle Geyser at "rope drop" (6 AM or so) was amazing. I woke up early that day and spontaneously said to myself..... didn't that sign say they expect it to go off soon? So I walked out and experienced one of the most amazing things I've ever seen. No appointment needed.

 

[Landslide305]

I think the planning is almost as much fun as the trip itself! What other vacation can you make so many decisions on - hotel, where to eat, which park for which day, which rides to choose, etc?

 

[ckelly14]

However with Yellowstone, did you have to reserve your time to view Old Faithful?
It's not the trip planning I resent, it's the level of trip planning. I want to make vacation plans ahead of time because I always want to anticipate my next great adventure. But to me, making ride reservations 60 days out is ridiculous.

The Old Faithful viewing area is not very restricted in capacity, compared to say Soarin' and TSMM. Until WDW can build ride capacity to = demand, there will always be ride rationing. My point is I like the current system of rationing compared to the previous one.

 

[JanaDee]

The only Disney savvy people I know are on these boards. When my extended family goes to WDW they call me for advice. The last time my sister went, she called me as she was entering the MK, and that was her idea of planning ahead.

I think being on these boards skews our opinions about how others view WDW vacation planning.

I wholeheartedly agree.

 

[Cormoran]

The Old Faithful viewing area is not very restricted in capacity, compared to say Soarin' and TSMM. Until WDW can build ride capacity to = demand, there will always be ride rationing. My point is I like the current system of rationing compared to the previous one.

Agreed on the ride rationing. I just wish they had built the rides and then implemented FP+. Seems to me, it would've been a better transition

 

[dsdeleon]

I love her point about yanking the kids off lines. It wasn't stated but similar to that I never witnessed kids getting yelled at harder than when they scanned a MagicBand on a no-wait line. The Mom was flipping. My husband was shaking his head and I was nodding in understanding of her spiked cortisol levels. Wasting one third of your hard-earned, long awaited, explicity planned (but Disney pretending you can just flip things on a smartphone) day is just too emotional for me anymore. My family has learned the value of a chill vacation.

 

[Mickey&Mouse]

The last time my sister went, she called me as she was entering the MK, and that was her idea of planning ahead.

That just made me giggle. I bet there are a decent number of others like her out there.

We have friends meeting us during our trip to WDW who will probably buy their tickets on the day they arrive at WDW.

 

[JimmyV]

What a semantic conundrum. FP+ allows guests to schedule rides in advance, thereby freeing up time for spontaneity to occur (whether it does or not). FP- allowed guests to schedule rides day of, thereby allowing spontaneous decisions to be made like "What park do I want to visit today?". Both have elements of spontaneity, but are either truly spontaneous?

In my mind, both iterations of FP require scheduling rides. Adhering to a schedule is the antithesis of spontaneity. So, to me, neither can be considered truly spontaneous.

I agree with this on the "micro" level of park touring. I think that both systems run about equal in terms of spontaneity once you get past the turnstile. To me, the difference is at the "macro" level. Wake up to find that it is pouring rain. So you decide to go to Future World and hang out in the pavilions doing lots of neat "hands on" stuff at Innoventions and spending a couple of hours inside the Living Seas. And while you are there, you pick up a FP for Soarin' (and Test Track if the rain lets up). Easy to make such a "spontaneous" decision at 7:30 a.m. over breakfast under FP-. I bit more difficult to do if you have FP+s for A&E, 7DMT and the parade at the MK that day. Sure, you could ditch those FPs while riding the bus to Epcot and take your chances trying to book a single FP+ for Soarin'. But your odds of getting a FP at a decent time are narrowed, and your odds of replicating your FPs at the MK for the day you decide to return there are slim to none. So I agree that spontaneity levels aren't all that different once you are in the park, there are huge difference at 7:30 a.m. when you are plotting out your day over breakfast.

 

[JimmyV]

I know that all the people I know that are Disney 'nut's, and believe me, that's a ton of people, all tell those new to WDW to plan, plan, plan.

I note that you are a moderator on this Board. I don't know how one gets chosen to be a moderator, nor do I know who your circle of friends are. But I would be astounded if the vast majority of people you know personally, who have been to WDW, "plan, plan, plan". I am the Disney planner in my family. People at work, church, neighbors, etc. ask me for advice all the time. (And I know that I am not unique in this regard. Lots of people posting here are similarly "the Disney guy/gal"). I give my advice. And without fail, people act on about 10%-25% of it and roll their eyes at the rest. In fact, this past December, around the 10th or so, I was at a business dinner where someone who does a lot of work for me said: "I'm thinking about taking my family to Disney World between Christmas and New Year. What advice can you give me." Sadly, I had to say: "Don't". She and her husband make a ton of money and they could have called and booked a full rack rate room/suite at any Deluxe without blinking an eye had a room been available. But they would have been wasting that money. My advice to her was to start planning a trip for next Christmas, and instead, contact DCL and see if they had any cabins left for a Christmas cruise. Her approach to WDW is far more the norm than "all of the people" that you know. The comments section to the Boston Globe article are not written by a tightly drawn demographic (such as this Board). Those comments are far more reflective of how the man-on-the-street views all of this than a bunch of people who own DVC and/or go 4 times a year, every year. You have to appreciate just how far off the scale the members of this Board really are.

 

[Planogirl]

It boggled my mind when we went into the parks how many people we would see lined up to buy tickets. I always wonder if those people will even discover FP+.

 

[JimmyV]

It boggled my mind when we went into the parks how many people we would see lined up to buy tickets. I always wonder if those people will even discover FP+.

Exactly. We can debate until we are blue in the face and our fingertips bleed whether or not "most" people know about 60/30 day windows and/or like to plan ahead. But in reality, the percentage of people who say: "We'll buy our tickets when we get there" is still not an insignificant number.

 

[Hokie2000]

I don't know whether you saw it or not, but elsewhere in a lengthy conversation on this thread I hypothesized the existence of a family whose style changed in exactly the manner yours has. Thank you for confirming this was not just an empty thought experiment on my part and there was at least one real life example.

I have very much enjoyed your discussion with Mesaboy on this subject - I think you've both made great points and it's been an interesting read.

Forgive me if you've already pointed this out - one example of an increase in spontaneity w/ FP+ is the ability to change them on the app. On both of our FP+ trips I have been able to alter FP times and experiences easily. Since these types of changes were not available w/ FP-, I would say that at least in regards to this specific feature, FP+ allows for more spontaneous decisions than holding an unchangeable paper ticket.

I don't know if I felt more spontaneous overall, since I made a plan and pretty much stuck to it as I had with FP- trips. But I'm not going to WDW looking to fly by the seat of my pants, that ship sailed when I started traveling with little ones.

I do know that we keep having wonderful trips, and I'm already planning the next one!

 

[mom2rtk]

Exactly. We can debate until we are blue in the face and our fingertips bleed whether or not "most" people know about 60/30 day windows and/or like to plan ahead. But in reality, the percentage of people who say: "We'll buy our tickets when we get there" is still not an insignificant number.

Which is why I'm skeptical we will ever see 4th and subsequent FPs available by app. They at least need to pretend they have something left for these people buying tickets at the gate.