Bombing Iran?!

[dcentity2000]

I just found this; it's not a fully reliable source (Reuters haven't picked up on this) but it is, nevertheless, worrying.

The administration of President George W. Bush is planning a massive bombing campaign against Iran, including use of bunker-buster nuclear bombs to destroy a key Iranian suspected nuclear weapons facility, The New Yorker magazine reported in its April 17 issue.

It goes on to say:

The article by investigative journalist Seymour Hersh said that Bush and others in the White House have come to view Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad as a potential Adolf Hitler.

"That's the name they're using," the report quoted a former senior intelligence official as saying.

A senior unnamed Pentagon adviser is quoted in the article as saying that "this White House believes that the only way to solve the problem is to change the power structure in Iran, and that means war."

The former intelligence officials depicts planning as "enormous," "hectic" and "operational," Hersh writes.

It gets worse...

In recent weeks, the president has quietly initiated a series of talks on plans for Iran with a few key senators and members of the House of Representatives, including at least one Democrat, the report said.

One of the options under consideration involves the possible use of a bunker-buster tactical nuclear weapon, such as the B61-11, to insure the destruction of Iran's main centrifuge plant at Natanz, Hersh writes.

But the former senior intelligence official said the attention given to the nuclear option has created serious misgivings inside the military, and some officers have talked about resigning after an attempt to remove the nuclear option from the evolving war plans in Iran failed, according to the report.

Source and full story: Middle East Online

As I said, it's not the best of evidence, but it is making me nervy to say the least! If we invade Iran all hell will break loose. Resources would presumably be source in part from Afghanistan and Iraq, leaving the countries in a less able state to deal with problems they face, namely stopping terrorists, the Taleban and so forth.

That's before you consider what Iran is. Unlike Iraq, the regime is not crumbling towards the outbreak of revolution - it's strong, well kitted out and DETERMINED to say the least.

If we do this, a LOT of people will die on both sides. Terrorism would be boosted by no end, forcing borderline extremists into full blown militant individuals. Power would be more thinly spread, thus removing a portion of the defences that keep - or are meant to keep - militants under wraps.

If this happens it will be the third major war launched by George W. Bush against the Middle East. All three were initiated by his administration. Well, actually, one - Afghanistan - was kinda started by 9/11. Nevertheless, it's a huge thing to contemplate.

I just don't know. Wars, ultimatums, torture, it all makes us look barbaric.

Fortunately (for me and all Brits), it would be unlikely that Britain would go into a third war - we just don't have the resources any more, they were all depleted in the last two wars!

Add that up and include the feeling to war that supports the EU and Eurasia and you're left with a rather unpleasant aftertaste - America will probably have to go it alone, presuming it does start another war.

[EDIT]: Someone just said that these mini-nuke bombs don't actually exist. Meanwhile, another person said that they do exist. Go figure



Rich::

 

[bsnyder]

I just found this; it's not a fully reliable source (Reuters haven't picked up on this) but it is, nevertheless, worrying.


It goes on to say:


It gets worse...



Source and full story: Middle East Online

As I said, it's not the best of evidence, but it is making me nervy to say the least! If we invade Iran all hell will break loose. Resources would presumably be source in part from Afghanistan and Iraq, leaving the countries in a less able state to deal with problems they face, namely stopping terrorists, the Taleban and so forth.

That's before you consider what Iran is. Unlike Iraq, the regime is not crumbling towards the outbreak of revolution - it's strong, well kitted out and DETERMINED to say the least.

If we do this, a LOT of people will die on both sides. Terrorism would be boosted by no end, forcing borderline extremists into full blown militant individuals. Power would be more thinly spread, thus removing a portion of the defences that keep - or are meant to keep - militants under wraps.

If this happens it will be the third major war launched by George W. Bush against the Middle East. All three were initiated by his administration. Well, actually, one - Afghanistan - was kinda started by 9/11. Nevertheless, it's a huge thing to contemplate.

I just don't know. Wars, ultimatums, torture, it all makes us look barbaric.

Fortunately (for me and all Brits), it would be unlikely that Britain would go into a third war - we just don't have the resources any more, they were all depleted in the last two wars!

Add that up and include the feeling to war that supports the EU and Eurasia and you're left with a rather unpleasant aftertaste - America will probably have to go it alone, presuming it does start another war.

[EDIT]: Someone just said that these mini-nuke bombs don't actually exist. Meanwhile, another person said that they do exist. Go figure



Rich::

Rich, I haven't read the link yet (although I plan to) but the excerpts you posted doesn't say anything about an invasion of Iran.

 

[Holly]

A few reasons to wonder:

1. Right between between Iraq and Afghanistan, Iran is now surrounded on either side by countries under US control (well, at least in control according to our government). Tactically, it wouldn't be a far road to travel to get there, everything is all right next door (on both sides, even). Despite concerns about the size of our military, we have a huge invasion force in the Middle East, large enough to conquer the entire region, supposedly.


2. Iran is in possession of a humongous oil reserve. They also hold what is speculated to be as much as 50% of the world's supply of natural gas.


3. As soon as Iran raised concerns about the tactics being used by U.S. and coalition forces in Iraq (Iran condemned them as terror attacks), they were immediately accused of supporting insurgents. Iran has accused British agents of terror attacks in Iraq.

4. The U.S. has given Iran a deadline, via the United Nations, to prove it has no nuclear weapons program. Since it turns out Iraq had no nuclear weapons, just like they said and tried to prove, it seems that it may not matter whether Iran even has a weapons program. It is a pretext for war that Iran obviously CLEARLY sees right through.



5. In 2000, Saddam Hussein began trading oil for euros. The euro appreciated 17 percent against the U.S. dollar between 2000 and 2003. Iran, Iraq, and Syria all discussed the switch from dollar to euro (with much posturing and threatening from Washington, because this is terrible for our economy), but Iraq was the the only country to make the switch at that time.
When we took over Iraq soon after, one of the first things we did was to switch oil sales back to dollars.

Interestingly, Iran is beginning the switch from dollars to euros in 2006.

 

[Bravosntha2g]

What's so crazy about this. The average US president in the post WWII era has ordered 3-4 bombing raids per term.

 

[lw49033]

The horrifying thing is that Bush's religious indoctrination has probably rendered him goofy enough, and anaesthetized his conscience enough to do something like that. If he does, there is going to be a repeat of the Nuremberg trial within our lifetimes, with American faces in the dock.

 

[richiebaseball]

The horrifying thing is that Bush's religious indoctrination has probably rendered him goofy enough, and anaesthetized his conscience enough to do something like that. If he does, there is going to be a repeat of the Nuremberg trial within our lifetimes, with American faces in the dock.

Where did you get your indoctrination?

 

[richiebaseball]

I just found this; it's not a fully reliable source (Reuters haven't picked up on this) but it is, nevertheless, worrying.

Wow, imagine that. There are actually plans for a bombing campaign against Iran. I wonder how many other countries have plans similar to this? That would be crazy. You shouldn't be able to do that. Think ahead like that. It's just not fair I tell you. Next thing you'll try to tell me we had plans to invade the Soviet Union all written up. Just in case. Fortunately it looks like we may not need them.

By the way check the date on this story. That is one slow pony you're getting there.
http://www.cnn.com/2005/ALLPOLITICS/01/16/hersh.iran/

 

[DawnCt1]

Wow, imagine that. There are actually plans for a bombing campaign against Iran. I wonder how many other countries have plans similar to this? That would be crazy. You shouldn't be able to do that. Think ahead like that. It's just not fair I tell you. Next thing you'll try to tell me we had plans to invade the Soviet Union all written up. Just in case. Fortunately it looks like we may not need them.

By the way check the date on this story. That is one slow pony you're getting there.
http://www.cnn.com/2005/ALLPOLITICS/01/16/hersh.iran/

And here is another SHOCKER!! China plays war games and guess who the enemy is? And guess what cities many of their nuclear war heads are aimed at? Could it be the USA? Yup!

 

[bsnyder]

By the way check the date on this story. That is one slow pony you're getting there.
http://www.cnn.com/2005/ALLPOLITICS/01/16/hersh.iran/

Curious. Hersh has just written another story for the New Yorker, very similar to the one cited on the CNN website (dated January 2005).

http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/articles/060417fa_fact

 

[DawnCt1]

A few reasons to wonder:

1. Right between between Iraq and Afghanistan, Iran is now surrounded on either side by countries under US control (well, at least in control according to our government). Tactically, it wouldn't be a far road to travel to get there, everything is all right next door (on both sides, even). Despite concerns about the size of our military, we have a huge invasion force in the Middle East, large enough to conquer the entire region, supposedly.


2. Iran is in possession of a humongous oil reserve. They also hold what is speculated to be as much as 50% of the world's supply of natural gas.


3. As soon as Iran raised concerns about the tactics being used by U.S. and coalition forces in Iraq (Iran condemned them as terror attacks), they were immediately accused of supporting insurgents. Iran has accused British agents of terror attacks in Iraq.

4. The U.S. has given Iran a deadline, via the United Nations, to prove it has no nuclear weapons program. Since it turns out Iraq had no nuclear weapons, just like they said and tried to prove, it seems that it may not matter whether Iran even has a weapons program. It is a pretext for war that Iran obviously CLEARLY sees right through.



5. In 2000, Saddam Hussein began trading oil for euros. The euro appreciated 17 percent against the U.S. dollar between 2000 and 2003. Iran, Iraq, and Syria all discussed the switch from dollar to euro (with much posturing and threatening from Washington, because this is terrible for our economy), but Iraq was the the only country to make the switch at that time.
When we took over Iraq soon after, one of the first things we did was to switch oil sales back to dollars.

Interestingly, Iran is beginning the switch from dollars to euros in 2006.

Well Holly, you have figured it all out! Of course it has nothing to do with Iran having a crazy leader who wants to push the Doomsday Armageddon scenario and has "advertised" his torpedo and missile technology (stuff they probably bought from N. Korea and the Russians) Nor would it have anything to do with their stated intent to continue to enrich uranium "for energy" while they are floating on oil. And believe me, no one is concerned that they have said repeatedly that they would love to push Israel to another continent. It's just that George Bush wants oil for Halliburton or some such nonsense.

 

[eclectics]

Well Holly, you have figured it all out! Of course it has nothing to do with Iran having a crazy leader who wants to push the Doomsday Armageddon scenario and has "advertised" his torpedo and missile technology (stuff they probably bought from N. Korea and the Russians) Nor would it have anything to do with their stated intent to continue to enrich uranium "for energy" while they are floating on oil. And believe me, no one is concerned that they have said repeatedly that they would love to push Israel to another continent. It's just that George Bush wants oil for Halliburton or some such nonsense.

So we have to be the world's sheriff yet again? How about Israel taking care of themselves? Believe me, they are more than able to do so. I don't think Iran will take kindly to force fed Democracy.

 

[Bravosntha2g]

THis would be a good decision BTW. A lot better decision than our bogus war in Iraq that was entirely without merit. We have absolute reason to goto Iran and I think bombing them is not nearly enough.

 

[Holly]

Well Holly, you have figured it all out! Of course it has nothing to do with Iran having a crazy leader who wants to push the Doomsday Armageddon scenario and has "advertised" his torpedo and missile technology (stuff they probably bought from N. Korea and the Russians) Nor would it have anything to do with their stated intent to continue to enrich uranium "for energy" while they are floating on oil. And believe me, no one is concerned that they have said repeatedly that they would love to push Israel to another continent. It's just that George Bush wants oil for Halliburton or some such nonsense.

At least I try to figure it out, rather than going through life with my eyes closed and blindly supporting my government no matter what destruction they heap upon the world.

What you see as craziness in Ahmadinejad, you revere in your own leader.

 

[DawnCt1]

At least I try to figure it out, rather than going through life with my eyes closed and blindly supporting my government no matter what destruction they heap upon the world.

What you see as craziness in Ahmadinejad, you revere in your own leader.

But do attempt to incorporate some reality into your analysis.

 

[Holly]

But do attempt to incorporate some reality into your analysis.

I'll try harder next time.

 

[DawnCt1]

So we have to be the world's sheriff yet again? How about Israel taking care of themselves? Believe me, they are more than able to do so. I don't think Iran will take kindly to force fed Democracy.

Interestingly enough when my SIL was one of the first Americans in 30 years sent to Bam, Iran to aid with the earthquake, (FEMA's DMAT), the Iranians would bypass the French, Russian, etc tents and wait hours to be seen by Americans. They love us and remember when we were a part of their lives.
The Imams stood guard to be sure to limit conversation and when, after 10 days or so it became evident that the Iranian people continued to flock to the American tent, even after being warned not to do so, the American DMAT team was ordered out of Iran. They also ordered that we leave the tent and more than a half a million dollars worth of supplies behind and almost didn't allow the evacuation plane to land so they could leave. The poor Iranian people who had absolutely nothing BEFORE the earthquake brought gifts to the nurses and doctors from the USA. My SIL was very touched by that. They are very familiar with our life style and a good segment of that population would welcome us back.

 

[eclectics]

Interestingly enough when my SIL was one of the first Americans in 30 years sent to Bam, Iran to aid with the earthquake, (FEMA's DMAT), the Iranians would bypass the French, Russian, etc tents and wait hours to be seen by Americans. They love us and remember when we were a part of their lives.
The Imams stood guard to be sure to limit conversation and when, after 10 days or so it became evident that the Iranian people continued to flock to the American tent, even after being warned not to do so, the American DMAT team was ordered out of Iran. They also ordered that we leave the tent and more than a half a million dollars worth of supplies behind and almost didn't allow the evacuation plane to land so they could leave. The poor Iranian people who had absolutely nothing BEFORE the earthquake brought gifts to the nurses and doctors from the USA. My SIL was very touched by that. They are very familiar with our life style and a good segment of that population would welcome us back.

That's a huge supposition to make, imho. Is it worth risking yet another war on?

 

[Bravosntha2g]

This is a war worth fighting. If we never went to Iraq, then we would be more prepared.

Bombing ala Clinton in Iraq is not enough. This needs to be a full scale ground war.

 

[Holly]

This is a war worth fighting. If we never went to Iraq, then we would be more prepared.

Bombing ala Clinton in Iraq is not enough. This needs to be a full scale ground war.

Aren't you getting a little ahead of yourself? What makes it worth fighting?

Do you feel like elaborating on your sig? Rudy and Lieberman? Together?

 

[Bravosntha2g]

What makes it worth fighting? Perhaps keeping a nation as dangerous as Iran from having nuclear weapons when they actually have a realistic chance of developing them unlike Iraq which was a lie by everyone.

The sig is simply a dream team.