BoardWalk, Beach Club, Hilton Head, and Vero Beach Price Increases

[davidl81]

I think we here on the boards way overestimate how many people are familiar with what DVC is paying for ROFR. Heck I’d bet a large majority of owners don’t even know that DVC has ROFR on resale contracts.

And Brokers don’t really care if a contract gets bought by Disney. Heck it’s easier for the broker, less chance of something falling through.

 

[Bearval]

If ROFR didn't have any impact on resale pricing then AKL wouldn't be going for over $140 per point now. The idea that it doesn't have an effect on price is absolutely absurd.

Explain why RIV is going for 155+ resale with restrictions and DVD not exercising ROFR on any contracts?

 

[Sandisw]

Explain why RIV is going for 155+ resale with restrictions and DVD not exercising ROFR on any contracts?

Because it may not impact all resorts the same exact way? Why do HH and VB not command higher with no ROFR?

Again, I don’t believe resale would cheap, but to say it plays no role? Even brokers use it to prop up the sales.

People here definitely use it to pay more. The thing is, as long as it exists, there is no way to prove it has 0 effect.

 

[Bearval]

Because it may not impact all resorts the same exact way? Why do HH and VB not command higher with no ROFR?

Again, I don’t believe resale would cheap, but to say it plays no role? Even brokers use it to prop up the sales.

People here definitely use it to pay more. The thing is, as long as it exists, there is no way to prove it has 0 effect.

Your response makes no sense. The reason RIV is going for 155 + resale is cash room rates. ROFR has no impact on resale. HH and VB don't command more along with AUL because they are not located near the parks.

 

[Sandisw]

Your response makes no sense. The reason RIV is going for 155 + resale is cash room rates. ROFR has no impact on resale. HH and VB don't command more along with AUL because they are not located near the parks.

So, if Disney did ROFR contracts for HH and VB, at the rate they did for AKV, you don’t think that people would pay more if those are the resorts they want?

And again, how can you say that ROFR does not impact the price when there are buyers here who have stated they paid more because of it

I don’t believe the reason Disney does it has anything to do with wanting resale to stay strong.

As long as it exists, IMO , it’s hard to say it plays no role with buyers and sellers. It certainly did when I sold and one of the main reasons for the ROFR thread.

ETA. In terms of RIV, people have paid in the $120s for it and I bet in another year or two we will see it come down to closer to that.

 

[Brett Wyman]

Explain why RIV is going for 155+ resale with restrictions and DVD not exercising ROFR on any contracts?

Because they are still having trouble selling the resort direct and Riv is frequently in the 25-35% off range for cash rooms.

 

[Bearval]

Because they are still having trouble selling the resort direct and Riv is frequently in the 25-35% off range for cash rooms.

What does DVD having trouble selling RIV direct have to do with RIV resale prices being so high?

 

[Shivanair]

People here definitely use it to pay more. The thing is, as long as it exists, there is no way to prove it has 0 effect.

I don't want to wait a month to find out that contract got ROFRed and start the process all over again so I'd use the ROFR thread to figure out what the floor of the pricing is and bid higher than that.

 

[Royal Consort]

What’s crazy is with BCV at $265 it makes VGC at $295 on the resale market look like a deal since it has a much longer expiration date. It’s definitely going to get interesting as we get closer to the 2042s expiring since they are such beloved DVC resorts.

I think I will take that to make myself feel better since I just forked out $285 for a VGC add on. Beach Club price increase helps my cognitive dissonance.

 

[Brett Wyman]

What does DVD having trouble selling RIV direct have to do with RIV resale prices being so high?

I was commenting on why they aren't picking Riv contracts up during ROFR. And I personally think 155 for Riv is still very cheap.

 

[kilik64]

ROFR effectively helps create a pricing floor. It definitely has an impact on pricing because even if the Joe Blow DVC owner or DVC buyer has now clue about it, the broker certainly does.

 

[Bearval]

ROFR effectively helps create a pricing floor. It definitely has an impact on pricing because even if the Joe Blow DVC owner or DVC buyer has now clue about it, the broker certainly does.

No it does not. DVD does not buy contracts just because they go below a certain price, they only ROFR when they have buyers of sold out resorts lined up. It they have no buyers they don't ROFR.

 

[Ruttangel]

No it does not. DVD does not buy contracts just because they go below a certain price, they only ROFR when they have buyers of sold out resorts lined up. It they have no buyers they don't ROFR.

That's not true, we know that BLT and BWV had more buybacks in 2021 than it sold direct. DVC was creating a pot of points so it definitely does speculates in future demand.
https://www.dvcnews.com/dvc-program...er-2021-privates-sale-prices-and-volumes-flat

 

[Bearval]

That's not true, we know that BLT and BWV had more buybacks in 2021 than it sold direct. DVC was creating a pot of points so it definitely does speculates in future demand.
https://www.dvcnews.com/dvc-program...er-2021-privates-sale-prices-and-volumes-flat

There was alot of buybacks and it had to do with DVD needing points since they were giving back owners points their points that would have expired due to be closed for COVID-19

 

[Sandisw]

No it does not. DVD does not buy contracts just because they go below a certain price, they only ROFR when they have buyers of sold out resorts lined up. It they have no buyers they don't ROFR.

I think you may be talking about something different than the rest of us. This is not about DVDs reasons for taking contracts. It doesn’t matter why they do or do not do that. I disagree that they only take to sell points…the buy backs this last year far outpaced the sales they had.

But, ROFR does play a role in the market because it exists and brokers, buyers, and sellers use it as part of the process.

If there was no ROFR, brokers would not use it to get a buyer to pay more, a buyer would try much harder to go lower, and a sellers would not use it to try to get more.

So, the big question in this thread was whether the raise in pricing for these resorts will cause the resale prices to go up or down and my guess at some points in the near future, they will stop all ROFR on 2042 and those resorts will see some level of reduction in pricing. I think you may already see that for HH and VB which can be bought well under $100 still.

 

[ScubaCat]

Once I sat down with a guide and found out about the 2042 expiration that took Boardwalk (what I was 100% going to buy into) out of the equation and we immediately took the sky lift to tour the Riviera. I know own Riviera and wouldn't change it. And especially if I was on the fence now and saw the price increase that would put more nails in the coffin. I know some people don't care about 2042 and are dead set on BWV or BCV, but for younger buyers it just makes little sense to me even if you're going resale. So I think that is definitely Disney's goal is definitely to push "active" sales going into their VGF2 release.

Sounds like the pricing is having the intended effect. The goal, as you said, is to push buyers to what they call "live" properties, meaning those being actively sold. If Beach club were something like $150-175/pt, it'd be more appealing to some than Riviera even with the shorter ownership period.

 

[Bearval]

I think you may be talking about something different than the rest of us. This is not about DVDs reasons for taking contracts. It doesn’t matter why they do or do not do that. I disagree that they only take to sell points…the buy backs this last year far outpaced the sales they had.

But, ROFR does play a role in the market because it exists and brokers, buyers, and sellers use it as part of the process.

If there was no ROFR, brokers would not use it to get a buyer to pay more, a buyer would try much harder to go lower, and a sellers would not use it to try to get more.

So, the big question in this thread was whether the raise in pricing for these resorts will cause the resale prices to go up or down and my guess at some points in the near future, they will stop all ROFR on 2042 and those resorts will see some level of reduction in pricing. I think you may already see that for HH and VB which can be bought well under $100 still.

The raising of direct prices and the raising of cash rates for rooms is what affects resale prices. ROFR has no affect since they only step in after a price has been determined. As long as people see value in buying resale they will keep the prices up due to competition from each other and the brokers creating and artifical floor saying if you don't pay more DVD will take it. DVD only buys what they need and they only take a small percentage of what is sold resale. HH and VB are cheap for a reason they are not park properties and the demand is really low.

 

[BWV Dreamin]

Because it may not impact all resorts the same exact way? Why do HH and VB not command higher with no ROFR?

Again, I don’t believe resale would cheap, but to say it plays no role? Even brokers use it to prop up the sales.

People here definitely use it to pay more. The thing is, as long as it exists, there is no way to prove it has 0 effect.

I think demand for the resort sets the resale price. Whether Disney takes back the offer has minimal bearing on resale prices. HHI and VB also have the highest MF’s. That too plays into demand.

 

[Sandisw]

The raising of direct prices and the raising of cash rates for rooms is what affects resale prices. ROFR has no affect since they only step in after a price has been determined. As long as people see value in buying resale they will keep the prices up due to competition from each other and the brokers creating and artifical floor saying if you don't pay more DVD will take it. DVD only buys what they need and they only take a small percentage of what is sold resale. HH and VB are cheap for a reason they are not park properties and the demand is really low.

Simply disagree. We have seen buyers here who have paid more when they lost 3 contracts to ROFR. Not sure how you can keep saying it plays no role. It did for them and others

You can keep saying they only take if they have a buyer but it doesn’t make it true. At the end, there is an ROFR floor and it is considered by all in the resale market.

 

[BWV Dreamin]

The raising of direct prices and the raising of cash rates for rooms is what affects resale prices. ROFR has no affect since they only step in after a price has been determined. As long as people see value in buying resale they will keep the prices up due to competition from each other and the brokers creating and artifical floor saying if you don't pay more DVD will take it. DVD only buys what they need and they only take a small percentage of what is sold resale. HH and VB are cheap for a reason they are not park properties and the demand is really low.

Bingo…..brokers creating an artificial floor….topic for a new thread.