"Black Lives Matter" - it's stupid. Just cut the crap.....

[PollyannaMom]

The good news is that it IS, slowly, getting better with each generation, and it does give me a little bit of solace to know that my two little light skinned black boys will have to deal with less racism than I did or my father before me because of conversations like this and movements such as BLM.

I'm really glad to see a positive, hopeful statement like this! (I was getting worried about where the thread was going.) And I agree that kids will show us the way! They really are wonderful at putting the sameness before the differences. I remember reading a book about Ruby Bridges to a class and seeing looks of real disbelief on kids' faces. It melted my heart to know that they couldn't even imagine not being in school together, even though it was a reality for their own grandparents.

 

[cabanafrau]

I am making my assumptions based on statements I have read and hints I have picked up while reading 50 pages of comments. I also used a of qualifiers and no definitives, as it was purely a statement that something wouldn't surprise me. I am not saying it is necessarily true.

Would you accept those very same words from a white person about their reasoning and opinions about something in this thread -- or would you call them out on covert racism?

 

[Disn3yVision]

Would you accept those very same words from a white person about their reasoning and opinions about something in this thread -- or would you call them out on covert racism?

I am a white person. So yes.

 

[luvsJack]

Watching the news is different than first hand experience. You said you are a white woman in a white area so its sounds like you don't have much experience with black men who dress like "thugs" (like basketball players and artists do btw). I would like you to know that my mom is a middle aged white woman raised in the midwest and south. She raised me by herself and loves me more than anybody and I her. She has told me how she was raised and what was believed and taught in her community as a child. I have heard the horror stories of the harassment she got for dating black men. I am half white. My sister and only sibling is white. My grandfather is white and lives in Martinsville, Virginia, where I have visited him numerous times. My grandmother is a white woman raised in midwest and I know how she thinks because I have been around it. My first cousin that I am closest with moved to South Carolina two years ago and got a confederate flag tattoed on his back. We used to go swimming every summer and eat thanksgiving dinner together every year before that. Since then we have had many arguments and long discussions. When my uncles and grandma and cousins get together they make tons of racist jokes and say VERY inappopriate things and reflect much of the backwards thinking on this thread. And they have for the last 34 years. I've gotten used to it. I love them none the less and still attend every family function happy to be there and spend time with my loved ones. But that doesn't change the fact that they are racist. Whether they or I want to admit it.

I am just as white as I am black so I have every right to talk about issues and behavioral patterns I have LIVED AND WITNESSED in the white community just as much as I am to speak out about what the black community needs to do to address the issues on our end. I have spent much time in virginia, south carolina... Around my family and their friends and I am sorry but things are different there than they are here in California. I would be shocked to find out that these people were young white people from Seattle or California being blatantly racist and I still highly doubt thats the case. We barely got south carolina to take the confederate flag down for God sakes. Once again I stand by my statement. I am talking about very specific people (such as one I know is from the south and is a older because he is retired) and I am saying yes, I think where and when they were raised has contributed to the insensitivity I have found on this thread. The good news is that it IS, slowly, getting better with each generation, and it does give me a little bit of solace to know that my two little light skinned black boys will have to deal with less racism than I did or my father before me because of conversations like this and movements such as BLM.

I have had my fair share of drama for today. Time to play Pokemon.
View attachment 181727

I was born in the North and raised in the South. I will not try to say that there is no racism in the south because we all know that its not true. But if you think it doesn't exist everywhere, you are truly fooling yourself--even in Seattle and most definitely in California. SOME families are raised the way you describe in every corner of the world. And some are not.

I have three children. NONE of them are racist. NONE of them have been raised to be racist. All three have been taught to judge a man by his character not his skin. All of my children were born and raised in the south. You are judging half the United States because of YOUR family. Sounds the same as someone judging all black men on what one does, don't you think?

 

[cabanafrau]

I see the irony in that this thread did not start with hundreds of years of oppression, murder, abuse, and slavery, which may have in turn heavily influenced why people act and think a certain way.

Irony isn't the adjective that comes to mind when I read this.

 

[DizBelle]

(Note to self) If a person is white and from the south, it is ok to profile them and think they are likely to have certain thoughts and beliefs. If they are black regardless of where they are from, it is not ok.

You learn something new every day!

 

[cabanafrau]

I am a white person. So yes.

Lovely little construct you've attempted to set up. I find logic and reasoning much more useful.

 

[Disn3yVision]

I was born in the North and raised in the South. I will not try to say that there is no racism in the south because we all know that its not true. But if you think it doesn't exist everywhere, you are truly fooling yourself--even in Seattle and most definitely in California. SOME families are raised the way you describe in every corner of the world. And some are not.

I have three children. NONE of them are racist. NONE of them have been raised to be racist. All three have been taught to judge a man by his character not his skin. All of my children were born and raised in the south. You are judging half the United States because of YOUR family. Sounds the same as someone judging all black men on what one does, don't you think?

Maybe I should have phrased it this way: "Some of the most ignorant people on this thread remind me of my older, white family that was raised in the south and midwest because they have repeatedly voiced over and over many of the same beliefs, views, and ways of thinking I have seen and heard from my family and others over the last 30 plus years... Therefore, it wouldn't surprise me if they had some similarities in their backgrounds, as they share much of the same feelings and philosophies."

Please don't construe my statement to mean EVERYBODY is the south and over 40 is a racist because that is far from what I said.

 

[cabanafrau]

I was born in the North and raised in the South. I will not try to say that there is no racism in the south because we all know that its not true. But if you think it doesn't exist everywhere, you are truly fooling yourself--even in Seattle and most definitely in California. SOME families are raised the way you describe in every corner of the world. And some are not.

I have three children. NONE of them are racist. NONE of them have been raised to be racist. All three have been taught to judge a man by his character not his skin. All of my children were born and raised in the south. You are judging half the United States because of YOUR family. Sounds the same as someone judging all black men on what one does, don't you think?

Racism, prejudice and bias respect boundaries no more than they respect anything else. It can be found in every corner of the world.

 

[Unas]

Just because you do not feel the pain, the anguish of another, does not mean it does not exist,” he said. “To ignore their struggles, our struggles, does not make them disappear. It will simply leave you blind and the American family very vulnerable.”

A small snippet from Sen Scott's speech on the floor. Do yourself a favor a read or watch a video of his speech.

 

[ASchwa]

It might help if you got her name correct. She signed on (to the letter urging an end to the occupation and institutional divestment of holdings in companies that profit from the occupation) as an individual.

1. How do you spell her name? If I spelled it close enough then you know who I mean.
2. There is no Israeli presence in Gaza, and BDS calls for the destruction of Israel in their slogans and their message. No, she signed as a leader of BLM.

 

[mummabear]

Because black men being killed by police being a major problem in America is a lie.

You have said this sarcastically but the stastics have show that it is an exaggeration.
No one on this thread is saying there is no issue, that black people are being pulled over more etc and that does need to be dealt with.
But blacks are not being killed by police disproportionately.

differently by police? I honestly have no idea...)

Sorry missed some of your quote.
You mentioned about Asians and I wanted to point out that a few short generations ago Asians were treated like dirt, they were basically salves kn the railways and during the war were rounded up and sent to interment camps. Yet as a race they are not in the same position now, why?
Women within the same time frame were not allowed to vote or own property, in my mothers generation (a women in her 60s now) could not open a bank account without her husband or father signing it for her when she was an adult. And yet women in my generation are not blaming past injustices for our situations now.

You should be ashamed of every post you've made on this thread. I have a feeling you aren't.

Minnie Mom has been respectful in her responses.

The point that people are trying to make is that the actions of people of color are more suspect than the actions of caucasian people and are more likely to end up in a physical use of force

But again they are not, they are more likely to be dealing with the police in the first place but once the interaction has started the use of deadly force is a result of the actions of the person, plenty of white people shot for not complying with officer instructions.

I am making my assumptions based on statements I have read and hints I have picked up while reading 50 pages of comments. I also used a of qualifiers and no definitives, as it was purely a statement that something wouldn't surprise me. I am not saying it is necessarily true.

So if they are dressed like a thug, and talk like a thug it's not rasist for me to assume they are a thug? I used qualifiers after all

I see the irony in that this thread did not start with hundreds of years of oppression, murder, abuse, and slavery, which may have in turn heavily influenced why people act and think a certain way.

As I have said before, while not belittling your families history it is just that. And for the States to move forward people need to come to peace with that history and move forward, much like the European Jews did after the Holocaust.
No one is suggesting it's forgotten or never discussed but unless people want to be in the same place in another 100 years it can't be forever the reason why x is happening.

Maybe I should have phrased it this way: "Some of the most ignorant people on this thread remind me of my older, white family that was raised in the south and midwest because they have repeatedly voiced over and over many of the same beliefs, views, and ways of thinking I have seen and heard from my family and others over the last 30 plus years... Therefore, it wouldn't surprise me if they had some similarities in their backgrounds, as they share much of the same feelings and philosophies."

Please don't construe my statement to mean EVERYBODY is the south and over 40 is a racist because that is far from what I said.

So again, how is this any less racsist than a police officer saying this person dressed like a thug reminds me of every thug I have dealt with in my 30 plus years on the force, now he's not complying and reaching for his pocket.....

 

[CPanther95]

I was born in the North and raised in the South. I will not try to say that there is no racism in the south because we all know that its not true. But if you think it doesn't exist everywhere, you are truly fooling yourself--even in Seattle and most definitely in California. SOME families are raised the way you describe in every corner of the world. And some are not.

I have three children. NONE of them are racist. NONE of them have been raised to be racist. All three have been taught to judge a man by his character not his skin. All of my children were born and raised in the south. You are judging half the United States because of YOUR family. Sounds the same as someone judging all black men on what one does, don't you think?

Anyone who thinks the South is more racist than the Northeast has not lived in both.

 

[roseaster]

I did research BLM. That is when I found out about their alliance with the Palestinians. I found the articles and proof that Patrisse Cullers, who started the organization BLM, sign an agreement with the Palestinians. I don't know if you know this but a lot of Israelis are Ethiopian descent. When last year a soldier of Ethiopian descent was beaten by Israeli Police, people came out and protested what happened. No society is perfect, but an organization that knowingly uses lies as one of their bases I can't support. Just like I am angry at the KKK. Their founding was divisive and full of lies. They killed people on lies. Sound familiar.

As for hashtags, anyone can make up a hashtag. I remember one year at the Oscars, someone hashtagged Angelina Jolie's Leg. So using a hashtag means nothing today.

You are plucking details, and controversial ones, at that, to bolster your point. I will not discuss the red herring that is Middle Eastern politics. It isn't germane to this discussion.

I don't know how to make you understand that BLM is not an organization. It is not like the Boy Scouts that has national leaders and officers and state and local leaders and officers. It is a movement an idea. It is leaderless. There are people that founded the movement, but they do not run, or govern, or dictate, in any way, how people demonstrate under the slogan of #blacklivesmatter. Patrisse Cullors may, personally, hold any belief or support any cause she wants, she cannot and does not speak for everyone that is active under the the hashtag.

BLM is not an organization, there is no hierarchy. It is a forum to bring together people who want to speak out against racism. There is no organization within this forum that dictates how this is done, by whom, or in alliance with whom.

It is IMO, part of the problem because people view it as an organization.

It might help if you got her name correct. She signed on (to the letter urging an end to the occupation and institutional divestment of holdings in companies that profit from the occupation) as an individual.

 

[roseaster]

But again they are not, they are more likely to be dealing with the police in the first place but once the interaction has started the use of deadly force is a result of the actions of the person, plenty of white people shot for not complying with officer instructions.

I specifically said physical use of force, not deadly use of force. People of color are, statistically, subject to more use of physical force in police interactions than white people.

Will someone please tell me what a "thug" dresses like? I repeatedly see the phrase, "dressed like a thug" and I am not sure what that is.

 

[Unas]

I'll just add this one last thing and be on my way following a couple of recent posts that are simply beyond the pale.

If anyone reads through all of my posts and truly concludes that I am racist or somehow part of the problem -- when I am here engaging in respectful dialogue based as much in facts as possible, have acknowledged multiple times that inequities exist that must be corrected, and am looking for groups to wholeheartedly support that I think will get to these issues in the most effective way possible (better than I think BLM will be able to) -- then I am not sure what more I can say.

This is the first time I've engaged on DIS in a thread that wasn't about a WDW trip. Lesson learned, I suppose!

Bolding mine

Don't forget, "perfect is the enemy of good." Searching for the perfect group will almost certainly result in inaction. That's one problem with the bolded part of your statement. Another big problem is that it appears that you have what you think is the solution. Unfortunately you might be wrong.

A previous poster suggested that the civil rights movement of the 50s and 60s had centralized leadership. Frankly I disagree. The plethora of groups shared some goals, but disagreed on others. The various groups definitely did not agree on tactics. But they did come togetherwhen it benefited the greater good and their common goals. Whether or not all of them agreed on an action, they acted . . . whether jointly or as their just their organization, they acted.

 

[VandVsmama]

This has been a very lively discussion and informative to read. From my point of view, a 'conversation' on a message board is quite different from an in-person conversation and unfortunately, you lose out on all of the non-verbal communication....and that can be an important part of it when you're debating an emotionally charged topic. For example, one person may write something and might mean it as a tongue-in-cheek/sarcastic/witty thing, but another person can take it at face value and be offended by it.

Racists come in all colors, shapes, and sizes. There ARE racist police officers. It REALLY REALLY SUCKS! I don't know what the answer is on a societal level. All I know is that I can only control **my** actions and behavior and I try to treat everyone with honor, decency, and respect regardless of what they look like, what religion they practice, their sexual orientation, etc. And when I have personally encountered people in person saying racist things in front of me, I call them on it. I did so just yesterday when speaking on the phone with my aunt, who had voiced some very derogatory opinions to me about "all the blacks out there" (her words in quotes, NOT mine!). In fact, I read her the riot act.

I do wish that the BLM protesters would engage in peaceful protests. And I wish that the BLM protesters who loot & pillage & destroy property (along with all of the people who are committing such crimes in the NAME of BLM, but really aren't BLM protesters) would stop ruining the very communities that they say they are trying to protect and build up (Ferguson, Missouri, for example).

I also fully support every person's US Constitutional right to peacefully assemble and their right to freedom of speech. What I do NOT support is people throwing things (eggs, for example) at the heads of others who they do not agree with. I will defend their right to carry signs that use foul language against the political candidate they despise the most. I will even defend their right to shout out any protest chant they want. But it is NOT ok to physically attack people who disagree with you.

 

[Disn3yVision]

You have said this sarcastically but the stastics have show that it is an exaggeration.
No one on this thread is saying there is no issue, that black people are being pulled over more etc and that does need to be dealt with.
But blacks are not being killed by police disproportionately.



Sorry missed some of your quote.
You mentioned about Asians and I wanted to point out that a few short generations ago Asians were treated like dirt, they were basically salves kn the railways and during the war were rounded up and sent to interment camps. Yet as a race they are not in the same position now, why?
Women within the same time frame were not allowed to vote or own property, in my mothers generation (a women in her 60s now) could not open a bank account without her husband or father signing it for her when she was an adult. And yet women in my generation are not blaming past injustices for our situations now.



Minnie Mom has been respectful in her responses.



But again they are not, they are more likely to be dealing with the police in the first place but once the interaction has started the use of deadly force is a result of the actions of the person, plenty of white people shot for not complying with officer instructions.



So if they are dressed like a thug, and talk like a thug it's not rasist for me to assume they are a thug? I used qualifiers after all



As I have said before, while not belittling your families history it is just that. And for the States to move forward people need to come to peace with that history and move forward, much like the European Jews did after the Holocaust.
No one is suggesting it's forgotten or never discussed but unless people want to be in the same place in another 100 years it can't be forever the reason why x is happening.



So again, how is this any less racsist than a police officer saying this person dressed like a thug reminds me of every thug I have dealt with in my 30 plus years on the force, now he's not complying and reaching for his pocket.....

The difference is that police officer didn't have a two week ongoing conversation with that person where he could see for himself the type of person they were based on their own statements and actions. If they a dressed like a thug, talk like a thug, and after 50 pages of discussion and hours of conversation prove that they are indeed a thug based on their own words and actions then I am perfectly ok with him treating them like a thug.... But not killing him. After all, even most thugs don't kill police officers.

I am talking about a VERY specific group of people on this thread with which I have had significant, personal interactions with from which to base my statement. I am not projecting beliefs on them based on their appearance, they are saying very loud and clear their racist beliefs for themselves.

I'm just saying, based on their viewpoints, statements, and posts, it wouldnt be surprising to find they come from a generation and location where many others have shared those same sentiments for a very long time. I think we can all agree that our grandparents generation was more racist than our children's is, and that racism and racial tensions have remained more prevelant in many parts of the south than some other parts of the country. Speaking of which... You, or anybody else I was referring to, have yet to mention your age or where you're from? Care to?

 

[VandVsmama]

Speaking of police officers, the city of Phoenix has hired its first ever female Chief of Police...who also happens to be African-American. Yay!!

I don't think it is necessary for us to do a roll call stating your age, ethnic background, or where you live.

 

[mummabear]

Speaking of which... You, or anybody else I was referring to, have yet to mention your age or where you're from? Care to?

Sorry you are including me as a racsist?
To answer your question 32 and a Canadian who lives in NZ.