"Black Lives Matter" - it's stupid. Just cut the crap.....

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The officers made their own statement. Isn't that their right?

Not sure if they agreed to work a job and backed out on it.

I've told this story before, but back in 2014 I attended the Marin County Fair in San Rafael, CA. The musical act that night was the Wailers Band, with one of Bob Marley's original backing musicians. The set was the entire Legend album. My wife wanted to leave a bit early and as we were leaving the band was playing I Shot the Sheriff as we walked by off duty Marin County Sheriff deputies working off-duty. Would it have been their right to walk off in protest?

Several NBA players have worn certain clothing that decried the deaths of people killed by police, yet I never heard of any off-duty officers walking out of their assignments.
 
CNN did a great job covering this situation today. They had the acclaimed civil rights activist, rapper Q Tip to analyze the situation.
 
CNN did a great job covering this situation today. They had the acclaimed civil rights activist, rapper Q Tip to analyze the situation.
My husband says they are up for sale and are televising more controversial material in order to up their value.
 

I am not questioning any of the anecdotal reports of police stopping black people for just driving. I have nothing to contradict them but am offering up an explanation as to why some of us don't get it. Our local police (Nashville) are so busy and so understaffed that it is hard to believe they have time for making those kind of stops. They don't even want to respond to non personal injury calls. We are a low tax state so we might operate with a smaller police force and that could affect the number of stops they make. I don't personally know anyone randomly stopped and do not hear news stories about it. I am not saying it isn't happening, just that I don't hear about it.

That is, actually, understandable. I live in an upper middle class town which is probably 95% white. Also, of note, I live in NJ and my property taxes are beyond ridiculous. I live in a smallish township with it's own very well paid, and pretty sizeable police force. They have the time and the resources to do this.

Now, I have worked in the inner city. The very poor, crime ridden inner city, and yes, you are quite right, police there did not have the time or the resources to deal with things that weren't serious crime. When someone has been shot 3 blocks over and you don't even have enough officers to deal with that they really can't waste time with someone who Hollywooded a stop sign.
 
I keep saying this: I think that one of the greatest dangers here is that this environment will lead to even great problems retaining and recruiting officers. Over time, it will make it increasingly difficult to attract good people to the profession. And this makes ALL of us less safe.

In my city they just announced an increase in max age to apply for police academy because they cannot get a large enough group. They cannot keep up with the number of officers retiring -- some early... and who can blame them?
 
Not sure if they agreed to work a job and backed out on it.

I've told this story before, but back in 2014 I attended the Marin County Fair in San Rafael, CA. The musical act that night was the Wailers Band, with one of Bob Marley's original backing musicians. The set was the entire Legend album. My wife wanted to leave a bit early and as we were leaving the band was playing I Shot the Sheriff as we walked by off duty Marin County Sheriff deputies working off-duty. Would it have been their right to walk off in protest?

Several NBA players have worn certain clothing that decried the deaths of people killed by police, yet I never heard of any off-duty officers walking out of their assignments.

They were contracted to work and walked of. The head of the police union backed them,up by insulting the Lynx team and their attendance. The police Chief had come out and said while he understand the sentiments, the officers shouldn't have walked off and that's not the type of behavior be wants his officers to display.
The mayor has strongly spoken out against the statements made by the police union head.
 
They were contracted to work and walked of. The head of the police union backed them,up by insulting the Lynx team and their attendance. The police Chief had come out and said while he understand the sentiments, the officers shouldn't have walked off and that's not the type of behavior be wants his officers to display.
The mayor has strongly spoken out against the statements made by the police union head.
I think that because they were hired to provide security for the event -- i.e. help ensure the safety of players and spectators, I assume -- they should have followed through with that job. Everyone there is entitled to proper security, despite what I think is an inappropriate display by those players. Again -- my opinion that this should be left out of sporting events.

I would 100% support them taking themselves off the list for FUTURE events, though. That is completely their prerogative -- they are free to make THAT statement.
 
I think that because they were hired to provide security for the event -- i.e. help ensure the safety of players and spectators, I assume -- they should have followed through with that job. Everyone there is entitled to proper security, despite what I think is an inappropriate display by those players. Again -- my opinion that this should be left out of sporting events.

I would 100% support them taking themselves off the list for FUTURE events, though. That is completely their prerogative -- they are free to make THAT statement.

Yeah I don't disagree. If they feel,uncomfortable working future events that's their choice.
I do think the reaction of walking off just adds to the problem. Instead of the shirts being a statement ( the women made statements prior to the game too, statements about ALL the recent events and the need for solidarity) it has become a thing. Now you have the head of the union attacking the Lynx organization, the chief having to make careful statements to appease all and the Mayor making statements. This is another way things get worse. Blocking highways and throwing objects is not the way to get things done or make your point but neither is walking of jobs, especially if public safety will be compromised, or insulting local sports teams over nothing more than tshirts and statements about solidarity. The childish behavior has to stop.
 
With this thread - especially the title - you are proving exactly why there needs to be BLM movement. Racism at it's finest.


Nobody - the OP included - said there was no REASON for something along the lines of BLM. The suggestion is that the group that does exist (meaning BLM) is a mess.

The notion that such groups should be free from criticism because they represent minority interests, and that such criticism is automatically racist by its very nature, is something I personally find quite insulting.
 
I think that because they were hired to provide security for the event -- i.e. help ensure the safety of players and spectators, I assume -- they should have followed through with that job. Everyone there is entitled to proper security, despite what I think is an inappropriate display by those players. Again -- my opinion that this should be left out of sporting events.

I would 100% support them taking themselves off the list for FUTURE events, though. That is completely their prerogative -- they are free to make THAT statement.

The fact is that a lot of venues have contracts with law enforcement agencies to provide uniformed officers working off-duty. Any event at these venues is going to require a certain level of security. Strangely enough, if you see an NBA game and a player or coach is ejected, that person gets an escort to the locker room by an LE officer. If a person is ejected from the venue (even if no law has been broken) that person is escorted out by an LE officer. They're not specifically enforcing the law, but providing a sense of authority.

Some of the participants in these events may even be considered reprehensible by those off-duty officers working security. I'd sincerely hope that people doing a job could be professional about it, even if they don't agree with the participants. There will be a couple of political conventions coming up, and they will be served by off-duty law enforcement providing security in their official uniforms. I'd hope that just because someone may be offended by something that Hillary Clinton or Donald Trump says, they won't walk out on the job that they agreed to do.
 
The fact is that a lot of venues have contracts with law enforcement agencies to provide uniformed officers working off-duty. Any event at these venues is going to require a certain level of security. Strangely enough, if you see an NBA game and a player or coach is ejected, that person gets an escort to the locker room by an LE officer. If a person is ejected from the venue (even if no law has been broken) that person is escorted out by an LE officer. They're not specifically enforcing the law, but providing a sense of authority.

Some of the participants in these events may even be considered reprehensible by those off-duty officers working security. I'd sincerely hope that people doing a job could be professional about it, even if they don't agree with the participants. There will be a couple of political conventions coming up, and they will be served by off-duty law enforcement providing security in their official uniforms. I'd hope that just because someone may be offended by something that Hillary Clinton or Donald Trump says, they won't walk out on the job that they agreed to do.
Almost sounds like you're aiming to disagree with me, but I said they should have finished that one job -- so I think we agree on that one. :) And my Dad was an officer for 28yrs, so I know about how they can sign up to help provide security at events in some cases if they choose to.

I still maintain that any officer who does not want to work a future event for that team is obviously completely within their rights NOT to stay on a list of officers voluntarily offering to work security for them in the future.
 
What's the income level of these black citizens who are being targeted? Is it across the board or primarily low income? And if the latter, does the nature of targeting low income factor in as much as skin color?

I would love to see data on this. Propublica and the Southern Poverty Law Center have done some great work on the issue of racial bias, but the line between race and income always seems so blurry in the data. And reading today about Philando Castile's history with the police reminded me very strongly of the experiences of some of the poorer (white) people I know in my own community - dozens of stops, with most of the tickets being over equipment violations that they couldn't afford to fix (loud muffler, broken seatbelt, burnt out lights) or for subsequent charges of driving on a license that was suspended for non-payment of the tickets written for those equipment issues. It basically comes down to the crime of being poor - depending on an old car with problems, struggles to make the insurance payments on time (and what a racket that is - our agent told us the bad-credit rate hike is bigger than that for a DUI, and the penalty for a lapse in coverage - even if it is because of lack of a functional car - is larger still), not being able to pay tickets within the 10 days before the fine doubles or more due to late fees/court costs, etc.

In regards to the journalism party of your post...
That's reminds me of Buzzfeed. Now I know I'll probably get interesting responses but here goes. Buzzfeed is actually building itself a good invesitgative journalism team. Of course that doesn't really attract the readers though. They've been able to take the revenue from all that fluff and use some of it for real journalism. Of course when you mention something coming from Buzzfeed it doesn't sound too great because it's not known for serious journalism. They are trying to change that but without all the fluff it would be possible because there'd be no money in it.

It has been an interesting experiment to watch, that's for sure. I'm not convinced that it is going anywhere good, though. I think the challenge of building an audience for serious news while retaining the listicles-and-quizzes image that attracts much of their traffic may be insurmountable.

3) Lopez feels the Fryer study is flawed because it only included data that city police departments gave up willingly and didn't include cities with past histories of policing issues. While I'm sure that Lopez would have preferred that Ferguson, MO's data would have been used, the claim made by groups such as BLM is that deadly policing disparities are systemic to our country. That's why they've been protesting not just in Minnesota and Louisiana, but all over. Prof. Fryer also doesn't have the power of subpoena, so what's he supposed to do? He's left with the data that's available to him. If these problems are truly systemic, then which large cities you pick shouldn't really matter much.

This is the issue that hinders the research most, IMO. A lot of the data in question is only kept voluntarily and only made available to the public by certain police depts. I think that creates an inherent selection bias - those departments most committed to transparency are the ones who keep the best data, and usually that commitment goes hand-in-hand with other top-down community-oriented policing efforts and a healthier, less confrontational organizational culture. So the data that is made available is the best of the best, so to speak.

And I don't think the fact that some cities do it well refutes the claim of systemic bias. There are thousands of police departments in this country, each with its own rules and policies. If a significant minority of them exhibit the same traits of racially biased policing and use of force, that is a systemic problem. The existence of good apples doesn't make the bad ones irrelevant.

How in the world can a police officer or anyone else determine someone's income level just by looking at them?

Really? If you see someone driving down the street in a beat up 1995 Chevy, you don't make an assumption about their income? Or in a brand-new Lexus SUV?

The players were within their rights to wear the shirts... and the cops were within their rights to walk off the job in protest. It's a two-way street.

I disagree. If the duty is voluntary, they're within their rights to stop volunteering. But once they've signed up, or if working games is an expected part of their duties, they need to act professionally and do their jobs. Police can't pick and choose and only defend the people they agree with.
 
If the duty is voluntary, they're within their rights to stop volunteering. But once they've signed up, or if working games is an expected part of their duties, they need to act professionally and do their jobs. Police can't pick and choose and only defend the people they agree with.
They weren't on duty as officers. Different story entirely.

They HAD signed up for this voluntary job providing security. As I said, I think they should have followed through with this one despite the players' "statement", for the sake of everyone at the event. Then be removed from the list for future events if they choose (which I would understand as a legitimate statement for them to make).
 
Almost sounds like you're aiming to disagree with me, but I said they should have finished that one job -- so I think we agree on that one. :) And my Dad was an officer for 28yrs, so I know about how they can sign up to help provide security at events in some cases if they choose to.

I still maintain that any officer who does not want to work a future event for that team is obviously completely within their rights NOT to stay on a list of officers voluntarily offering to work security for them in the future.

I was just responding to a general sentiment in this thread. Quoting you may not have been the best way to respond to that sentiment.

To me, they were being unprofessional, and the head of the officers' association is excusing that unprofessionalism. A professional doesn't allow personal sentiment to affect completing an assigned job. Even if they were technically independent contractors, I don't know of any situation where independent contractors would be allowed to walk off the job without being excused. I'd hate to think that perhaps they feel they could walk off an on-duty assignment because something personally upsets them.
 
Even if they were technically independent contractors, I don't know of any situation where independent contractors would be allowed to walk off the job without being excused. I'd hate to think that perhaps they feel they could walk off an on-duty assignment because something personally upsets them.
I think that assuming this would be a MASSIVE leap.

They walked off that contracting job; and won't return to it. In that sense it parallels anyone walking off a job for personal reasons and never intending to go back or get rehired. Because it's a security gig, while not REQUIRED for them to stay, I think they should have -- for this one.
 
I was just responding to a general sentiment in this thread. Quoting you may not have been the best way to respond to that sentiment.

To me, they were being unprofessional, and the head of the officers' association is excusing that unprofessionalism. A professional doesn't allow personal sentiment to affect completing an assigned job. Even if they were technically independent contractors, I don't know of any situation where independent contractors would be allowed to walk off the job without being excused. I'd hate to think that perhaps they feel they could walk off an on-duty assignment because something personally upsets them.
That depends. Here we can walk out of any job if we wish to. We probably shouldn't but I can't completely blame them either.
 
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