"Black Lives Matter" - it's stupid. Just cut the crap.....

[Disn3yVision]

To all of this, I would just say: http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/12/u...force-but-not-in-shootings.html?smid=fb-share

Facts and evidence matter. But they often aren't good for ratings.

Maybe you missed the part where I said this wasn't about blacks and police but a much, much deeper issue. Or maybe you are just choosing not to hear that.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

Maybe you missed the part where I said this wasn't about blacks and police but a much, much deeper issue. Or maybe you are just choosing not to hear that.

I modified my post right after posting, and after you quoted it:

To all of this, I would just say: http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/12/u...force-but-not-in-shootings.html?smid=fb-share

Facts and evidence matter. But they often aren't good for ratings.

There are CLEARLY issues to be addressed. But BLM doesn't appear interested in facts. IMO, that movement is not the answer.

I think it is deeper. And I don't think BLM is aiming to get at that at all.

 

[wilkeliza]

To all of this, I would just say: http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/12/u...force-but-not-in-shootings.html?smid=fb-share

Facts and evidence matter. But they often aren't good for ratings.

There are CLEARLY issues to be addressed. But BLM doesn't appear interested in facts. IMO, that movement is not the answer.

This article doesn't disprove anything like you think it does. Shootings are not the only thing that BLM is about. It is about the systematic racism which is high lighted in this study. People of color are in fact more likely to be stopped, questioned, hand cuffed, hands placed upon them, etc during interactions with the police. That came directly from police data.

I wanted to stay out of this thread but seriously some people see one issue that may be wrong with the movement and then discredit the entire thing. Discrimination is real. Burying ones head in the sand over it isn't going to change that. Why is it when I carried a pocket knife and box cutter for work in NYC I was always given it back and told to keep it safe when I was randomly searched after work but my coworkers who were males of color were ticketed for the same exact items that were being handled for the same exact reason? We were both breaking the law by carrying them in our bags on the subway.

 

[sunshinehighway]

To all of this, I would just say: http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/12/u...force-but-not-in-shootings.html?smid=fb-share

Facts and evidence matter. But they often aren't good for ratings.

There are CLEARLY issues to be addressed. But BLM doesn't appear interested in facts. IMO, that movement is not the answer.

The study is interesting and definitely something to think about but let's not start using it as the end all be all. I mean you have plenty of facts and figures, studies that show all different things, have different variables and are intrepreted in all sorts of ways.

 

[Disn3yVision]

I modified my post right after posting, and after you quoted it:



I think it is deeper. And I don't think BLM is aiming to get at that at all.

You don't think ANY of them are aiming to get that? AT ALL? Like zero percent? What do you think they are aiming for? To kill cops and burn down cities and create an anarchist society? As I keep implying you are seeing the small portion you choose to see.

 

[Disn3yVision]

The study is interesting and definitely something to think about but let's not start using it as the end all be all. I mean you have plenty of facts and figures, studies that show all different things, have different variables and are intrepreted in all sorts of ways.

Like I said you could use all kind of evidence to make God out to be the most evil entity ever... if you WANTED to.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

I wanted to stay out of this thread but seriously some people see one issue that may be wrong with the movement and then discredit the entire thing.Discrimination is real.

Agreed. BLM focuses on police shootings of black men. It uses cases as "evidence" that have been discredited completely. Some elements within the movement chant things that could clearly incite violence against officers. They paint a picture that white officers are hunting black men, like Spike Lee recently said on CNN.

There are problems. They are complex. And BLM is not the right messenger to address the ACTUAL ROOT problems, as they cite as their support MISINFORMATION.

That's my opinion based on taking all of this in from many different sources since the beginning of the BLM movement.

We can obviously disagree, but this is what I base my take on.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

The study is interesting and definitely something to think about but let's not start using it as the end all be all. I mean you have plenty of facts and figures, studies that show all different things, have different variables and are intrepreted in all sorts of ways.

Sure. What such legitimate studies or evidence does BLM use to direct its actions?

 

[cabanafrau]

Ok, I certainly don't want to rehash Teayvon Martin.
He wasn't on trial so I don't see why there'd be a need for character witnesses. He was the victim at the trial.
Also, Zimmerman prior bad acts (including prior arrests) were not allowed in and he was the one on trial.

This comment is NOT about the George Zimmerman trial and the questioning of the actions and character of Treyvon Martin, but about the issue of a victim not being the one on trial yet having their character be attacked. It happens all the time, and is particularly utilized to attack the credibility of the victims of sexual assault.

There are specific court rules and rules of evidence pertaining to prior bad acts testimony regarding defendants, but it is open season on the character and past of the victims. A prosecutor would make a motion to the court seeking permission to submit evidence of prior bad acts of the defendant before a jury. The evidence is not permitted unless it fits within the parameters of the rules and the court issues an order granting permission for such evidence and testimony to be presented. Generally this is referred to as 404b evidence if anyone wants to look it up to get more info about the rules and the reasoning of the process.

 

[gwynne]

This article doesn't disprove anything like you think it does. Shootings are not the only thing that BLM is about. It is about the systematic racism which is high lighted in this study. People of color are in fact more likely to be stopped, questioned, hand cuffed, hands placed upon them, etc during interactions with the police. That came directly from police data.

I wanted to stay out of this thread but seriously some people see one issue that may be wrong with the movement and then discredit the entire thing. Discrimination is real. Burying ones head in the sand over it isn't going to change that. Why is it when I carried a pocket knife and box cutter for work in NYC I was always given it back and told to keep it safe when I was randomly searched after work but my coworkers who were males of color were ticketed for the same exact items that were being handled for the same exact reason? We were both breaking the law by carrying them in our bags on the subway.

I agree with you. Going forward, how do we respond to the attempt to discredit and delegitimize the issues? I guess the new thing is to be offended by the words Black Lives Matter. Maybe Black Lives Aren't Irrelevant would be less offensive?
I don't judge a whole group by the actions of a few. But, some like to cherry picked discussions. It's a way to diminish and dilute the valuable discourse needed to address critical issues.

 

[Disn3yVision]

This comment is NOT about the George Zimmerman trial and the questioning of the actions and character of Treyvon Martin, but about the issue of a victim not being the one on trial yet having their character be attacked. It happens all the time, and is particularly utilized to attack the credibility of the victims of sexual assault.

There are specific court rules and rules of evidence pertaining to prior bad acts testimony regarding defendants, but it is open season on the character and past of the victims. A prosecutor would make a motion to the court seeking permission to submit evidence of prior bad acts of the defendant before a jury. The evidence is not permitted unless it fits within the parameters of the rules and the court issues an order granting permission for such evidence and testimony to be presented. Generally this is referred to as 404b evidence if anyone wants to look it up to get more info about the rules and the reasoning of the process.

And there we go again taking it from a larger issue and deeper conversation to a myopic debate over specifics.

 

[taitai]

BLM focuses on much, much more than police shootings.
http://blacklivesmatter.com/about/

 

[CPanther95]

This article doesn't disprove anything like you think it does. Shootings are not the only thing that BLM is about. It is about the systematic racism which is high lighted in this study. People of color are in fact more likely to be stopped, questioned, hand cuffed, hands placed upon them, etc during interactions with the police. That came directly from police data.

That's exactly right, and that's the problem that needs to be addressed. But that's where BLM misses the mark because they are instantly exploiting deaths because they can get more mileage and more of a response out of it. You can't use lies, innuendo and exagerations to rile people up and then expect to channel that energy into addressing something different.

That's why they are losing credibility with a rapidly growing number of reasonable people.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

But that's where BLM misses the mark because they are instantly exploiting deaths because they can get more mileage and more of a response out of it. You can't use lies, innuendo and exagerations to rile people up and then expect to channel that energy into addressing something different.

That's why they are losing credibility with a rapidly growing number of reasonable people.

Exactly how I see it. Well said.

 

[wilkeliza]

I understand what you are saying. I guess the new thing is to be offended by the words Black Lives Matter. Maybe Black Lives Aren't Irrelevant would be less offensive?
I don't judge a whole group by the actions of a few. But, some like to cherry picked discussions. It's a way to diminish and dilute the valuable discourse needed to address critical issues.

I did actually say a few days ago that perhaps the movement does need to solidify what it is representing and come up with some concrete rebutals to the ever popular what are you doing about black on black crime. The groups I support that are apart of the movement are the ones that are looking at the root of the problem and not the worst offenders. I.E. funding for training in deescalation tactics, keeping all police officers accountable when excessive force is used, keeping police accountable in general, education and after school programs in problem areas to prevent the cycle of violence, getting guns out of the hands of children and instead inspire them to rise above through arts and education. Those programs exists inside the movement but are not the ones that get the major coverage because they aren't the ones that get viewers to a news station.

 

[sunshinehighway]

I agree with you. Going forward, how do we respond to the attempt to discredit and delegitimize the issues? I guess the new thing is to be offended by the words Black Lives Matter. Maybe Black Lives Aren't Irrelevant would be less offensive?
I don't judge a whole group by the actions of a few. But, some like to cherry picked discussions. It's a way to diminish and dilute the valuable discourse needed to address critical issues.

I have a feeling people would say they don't like "Black Lives Aren't Irrelevant" because they take it to mean other lives are.
I think if you're looking to be against something there's always a way to do just that.

 

[sunshinehighway]

That's exactly right, and that's the problem that needs to be addressed. But that's where BLM misses the mark because they are instantly exploiting deaths because they can get more mileage and more of a response out of it. You can't use lies, innuendo and exagerations to rile people up and then expect to channel that energy into addressing something different.

That's why they are losing credibility with a rapidly growing number of reasonable people.

Honestly I think a bit of gaslighting or something very close is going on with BLM and how the issues they are trying to address are being responded to.

 

[cabanafrau]

Its funny, I keep reading the same adjectives being used throughout this thread to put down Black Lives Matter: violent, disrespectful, unlawful, divisive, aggressive, rowdy, criminal. Do you think it is a coincidence that these are the same prejudices often associated with blacks, and black men in particular? The same prejudices in fact, that BLM is trying to address? The same prejudices that may lead to, consciously or subconsciously, black men being treated differently in similar situations, and even killed in some instances? The same prejudices that may have led to Trayvon Martin's death?

Speaking of which, I also see the same specific instances being brought up repeatedly. Trayvon Martin, Mike Brown, etc. But as PP's have said multiple times, this isn't about any one incident. This is about ALL the incidents. That have occurred. That keep occurring. American has a problem, and has for a very long time. It isn't as simple as whites and blacks or cops and blacks. What is dividing us, what is dividing our country, goes back much further and is a lot deeper than Black Lives Matter. Black Lives Matter is a conduit through which a much deeper issue has began bubbling back up from the depths it has been hiding and festering in for so many years.

The truth is, you can see the worst in anything if you want to. You could argue God is a power hungry, vengeful, racist if you chose to see Him that way... and you would have plenty of evidence I might add. Or you could choose to see the good and him and embrace it. The choice it up to you. The truth is Black Lives Matter isn't a a defined group of people. It is both a sign and signifier. It is a voice for people that have not been heard. It is an alarm clock for america to wake up, a mirror we all need to look into. It is all of us. It is a feeling all black people have felt at one point in their lives... And one that we all hope to never have feel again.

Divisive is a prejudicial commentary commonly associated with blacks and/or black men in particular? Absolutely challenge the validity of that claim.

Black Lives Matter is divisive IMO, stupidly, needlessly, illogically and foolishly so. I've said it from the start and I'll say it again. Makes more sense to pull everyone together to work towards a resolution of the real issue and walk away from racism altogether. If racism is at the heart of the problem, why does it make sense to divide out race in the campaign to end it?

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

Following up on my post yesterday (below), I found a link to yesterday's entire press conference with Dallas Police Chief David Brown:

For anyone truly interested in listening to a well-informed opinion on some of what should be done to address real issues at play here, I think this is worth your time.

I found this inspiring -- to see real leadership that tells it like it is -- so thought I'd share... http://dfw.cbslocal.com/2016/07/11/...e-asking-cops-to-do-too-much-in-this-country/

Dallas Police Chief David Brown strikes me as an INCREDIBLE LEADER -- sorely lacking in this country today!! This press conference from today is worth watching in its entirety if you can find it -- a lot of WISDOM and potential SOLUTIONS for anyone truly interested and willing to listen.

He TALKED STRAIGHT (and got specific) about how: "We're asking cops to do too much in this country... Every societal failure, we put it off on the cops to solve."

Dallas Police Chief Brown shares his story: "I probably wouldn’t protest…I’d get involved & do something about it."

Dallas Police Chief’s advice to young black men: "Become a part of the solution, serve your communities... Don't be part of the problem... we're hiring. Get off that protest line and put an application in. We’ll put you in your neighborhood – we will help you resolve some of the problems you are protesting about."

"All the crap we gotta take as police officers, the satisfaction you get from serving – much more gratifying."

“Leaders in my position need to put their careers on the line to make sure we do things right”

On open carry of guns like AR-15s: "We don't know who the good guy is versus who the bad guy is if everybody starts shooting."

 

[ASchwa]

I had begun to wonder if the information was from a haevily slanted site like that, becuase when I google I tend to skim for more mainstream sites and saw nothing really--but then again google.de does not always pull up the same stuff and perhaps i wasn't using the correct words--which is why I kept asking and I DO appreciate the poster providing the link to what they were talking about

The site I used was because a lot of the mainstream news outlets like CNN and MSNBC and NYT don't always give the whole story. In fact, they slanted towards BLM. This one gave more of a balance to what had happened. Everyone has their own opinions, but most of the people talking were from BLM and not the people who lived in the area. This gave some perspective to what happened in McKinney. By the way, the officer involved in McKinney was absolved of any wrong doing. It happened on June 23, 2016.