"Black Lives Matter" - it's stupid. Just cut the crap.....

[disney4us2002]

I was profiled due to my car. I got pulled over three times in a relatively short period of time and asked how long I'd had the car and where I'd been and so on. It felt weird but I understood that likely a car like mine was seen at the scene of a crime.

I dislike profiling of any kind. I understand the logic behind it but I think that it goes too far when it's only about how a person looks or dresses.

I hear you but I see it differently. I wish there had been more attention paid to profiling before 911 and maybe some type of intervention could've prevented so many senseless tragedies. My dh worked at the Pentagon at the time and while we were thankfully lucky that day, we know many personally who were not. The inconvenience of being pulled over too often does not outweigh the lives possibly saved. JMHO. Yours is obviously different.

When it comes to race relations between whites and blacks in America, I think there is more division now than there was 8 years ago, before we elected a "black" president. I use quotes because I often see BO as described as black when in fact he is bi-racial.

 

[PrincessNelly]

In 13 pages of posts, it's sad that all the anti-police posting, not one of the anti-police posters has not mentioned the poor 5 Dallas officers that were assassinated 2 days ago. Doesn't seem like that is a big deal, only mentioned is the other shootings, let's not forget about the assassination of the 2 NYPD officers last year also and the attempted assassination of a Minnesota police officer today. Guess their lives don't matter as much to be mentioned.

I haven't seen any anti-police posting... I've seen anti-police abuse/brutality post.
Maybe thats the issue... too often people confuse the BLM movement as being anti-police when that isn't true. Let me be clear, when ever an innocent life is taken, its wrong. The two men and those five officers did not deserve what happened to them. Everyone has someone who loves them somewhere. And people should be able to leave home knowing they'll return home to their loved ones.

I have family in law enforcement, I'm proud of the work they do everyday. But I will speak out about abuse everytime I see fit.

I work in an office. If I saw a co-worker abusing their power... I would not ignore their behavior, I'd speak up. We have some bad police officers and some that just make mistakes. Bad cops need to be weeded out and others just need additional training.

 

[PrincessNelly]

There was forensic evidence that supported Zimmerman's story. Read it on Wikipedia. There are pictures of the injuries that George Zimmerman had. I have never vilified Martin, only pointed out that his death had nothing to do with police officers. BLM does blame the police for Martin's death. Also, some here say that Law Enforcement Officials didn't investigate properly, meaning Police. BLM vilifies Police Officers which led to those 5 Officers being killed and 7 Officers wounded. As I have said before, BLM uses lies and that led to the incitement that cost those Officers their lives. BLM in my opinion is a hate organization that doesn't care about facts and doesn't care about the law abiding citizens that they say they represent. If BLM could find a way to blame the Police for every thing that goes wrong in the Black community, they will shout it out which makes for divisiveness, not coming together and having dialogue. It seems to me that BLM is part of the problem and not the solution.

So in your opinion what's the solution here?

 

[PrincessNelly]

I hear you but I see it differently. I wish there had been more attention paid to profiling before 911 and maybe some type of intervention could've prevented so many senseless tragedies. My dh worked at the Pentagon at the time and while we were thankfully lucky that day, we know many personally who were not. The inconvenience of being pulled over too often does not outweigh the lives possibly saved. JMHO. Yours is obviously different.

When it comes to race relations between whites and blacks in America, I think there is more division now than there was 8 years ago, before we elected a "black" president. I use quotes because I often see BO as described as black when in fact he is bi-racial.

Are you saying profiling people saves lives? Stopping people based on skin color could save lives? I may be misreading or misunderstanding what you're trying to say.

Prior to the election of president Obama, we were much more careful about the way we spoke about race in this country. But over the last 8 years we've seen and heard things that previously someone would have been ashamed to say out loud. Now people are more outspoken about race, gender, and sexuality.
I for one thought race relations and homophobia were much further along than they are. But after all I've seen and heard over the last few years.. now I know that we weren't improving, people were just afraid to be openly racist/prejudice.

 

[Unas]

I hear you but I see it differently. I wish there had been more attention paid to profiling before 911 and maybe some type of intervention could've prevented so many senseless tragedies. My dh worked at the Pentagon at the time and while we were thankfully lucky that day, we know many personally who were not. The inconvenience of being pulled over too often does not outweigh the lives possibly saved. JMHO. Yours is obviously different.

When it comes to race relations between whites and blacks in America, I think there is more division now than there was 8 years ago, before we elected a "black" president. I use quotes because I often see BO as described as black when in fact he is bi-racial.

Seriously? You want more profiling?

And be very clear, profiling would not have changed one thing on 9/11. Before that day, there was nothing to profile with those murderers. Remember, what they took through security was permitted then.

 

[lisaviolet]

"Driving while black" is a real problem in many areas. I know most of us white folks aren't aware of it because it doesn't happen to us, but it does happen.

Thank you.

In 13 pages of posts, it's sad that all the anti-police posting, not one of the anti-police posters has not mentioned the poor 5 Dallas officers that were assassinated 2 days ago. Doesn't seem like that is a big deal, only mentioned is the other shootings, let's not forget about the assassination of the 2 NYPD officers last year also and the attempted assassination of a Minnesota police officer today. Guess their lives don't matter as much to be mentioned.

Huh?

Okay, I get it. You must not see some of us as anti-police. Insert sarcasm.
_________________________________________________

Not to mention your inability to know that a discussion of one issue does not rule out compassion and horror for another.


_______________________________________________________________________________________

I came on this thread not to support Black Lives Matter, but to fully support why it exists and speak against those comments that acted like there is not a problem to work on. And to point out that one can carry multiple thoughts/compassion/emotions at once. And honestly, |I wanted to have a discussion that people need to look at themselves and our private thoughts about racial issues, first and foremost. |I have some issues with the Black Lives Matter. My friend, who is black, goes beyond crazy over some of their choices. In Toronto, they were asked to start our LGBT parade. They started the parade by not letting the parade start. Insert smile.

They sat down and demanded that the police not have a float in future parades or they were simply not letting it go forward. My friend was up in arms about it, discussing it today. "NOPE. The police are going to be in each and every parade. Do they even know the history of the police and the gay community?" (our police have openly apologized about bathhouse raids here, decades earlier). She was livid. I asked her how she thought people should get their point across, when so many are not listening or not believing some of the ongoing issues for years on end, in general - her thoughts. She replied, "I don't know but this is not their parade and they will not stop the police from being in it." |So once again, thoughts are not fluid across racial lines.

But I continue to want to address comments here, despite issues with their choices as an organization. Because the issue at hand is completely valid.

--- To the comment about why can't people just follow procedure and not talk about their rights. ----

Because they are worn down. Because sometimes it's very hard to think straight in a moment of stress. Because all of our rights are important. Because they did the first twenty times they were pulled over, although innocent. Can you not understand that? If you're married - can you imagine your husband being interrogated by the police fifty times -for simply living his everyday life? Can you imagine? Can you imagine what this does to any human BUT to a man? A man's self worth? Of having to be compliant over and over.

Personally I don't know how people stay so calm and cordial over time. They are better humans than I. Truly. After so many times, I would get mouthy and sarcastic. I know I shouldn't, but I might. Heck, I have to work hard to watch myself at your border. There are hard working, wonderful border guards but I've had a few abuse their power, and try to bait. Verging on abusive for no reason. Nothing to do with their job at hand. I know I have to remain calm because they have all the power, they can flag me for life. I cross the border and often feel violated by such an exchange. And it's nothing in the scheme of life.

Can you imagine how what goes on for some minorities wears a person down? How it makes them feel? Beyond the police of course. The man in the article I posted ran for office and like all our potential politicians went door to door. At one house a teenage girl saw him and went screaming down the hall. Her mother apologized.

But can you imagine facing all of that?

For some of you, I guess not.

-----To the comment about black police officers being involved in a high percentage of shootings etc. and therefore there goes the prejudice theory -----

You're all fooling yourself if you take from that that there is no chance that these cops could not be prejudice against their own race (not all of them of course). Or even think that some practices are okay. |Heck, our black Chief of|Police fully supported carding (Carding is the practice of gathering information in a database on a myriad of citizens, many of which are innocent citizens living their lives http://torontolife.com/city/life/skin-im-ive-interrogated-police-50-times-im-black/ It has never been proven that it lowers crime.)

I said earlier that I had three distinct awful experiences that I believe only occurred because one of us was black. Well a fourth came to me. We were on strike. |It was cold as hell. Nothing like walking a picket line in general, but in frigid temperatures with snow falling - the worst.

We were very early. I suggested we stay in the car but just around the corner for a bit, so no one would try to pull us out early on such a horrid day. Let me preface, upper middle class area. It's around 9 am.

A siren came. What? I honestly thought that there was an emergency at a home.

Nope.

A police officer was all over us. Asked every question under the sun. We explained to him immediately we worked right there, we just didn't want to join our picket before our time because it was freezing.

He would not let up. It went on and on. He was convinced we were up to no good. The interrogation went on and on. Every answer to him was questioned over and over. He was black, and I truly believe he was the worst of all my experiences. And I don't believe it would have happened or gone so far without a black person in the car, I just don't.

Funny, all these instances never happened with my white friends - being in their cars, all those years with my white family. But with black friends - well it's a special magnetic force.

---- To the comment about all these incidents being completely racist or about white police officers only ----

I know that are many of us on here that don't even think white police officers only when we talk about these issues. You think we do, but the thought isn't there for some of us. We are only discussing the issues that happen to non-whites in our society. And who does that is not as big as the issue that it exists, well in my opinion.

Many of us know that some police officers are not trained properly, some are scared on the job - which leads to irrational choices at times, some think that they are God- like to anyone and everyone around them and some make horrendous mistakes. |So not everyone is thinking racist - racist - racist on every single issue. Just that there are issues that need to be fixed. Some of them racial for sure, some of them not.

So that cloaked argument doesn't work. Hang it up.

Heck, one of my biggest concerns is budget cuts. I think it is outrageous to have some police officers alone on patrol.

I know many of us think what the hell happened to de-escalation of a situation? I know I do. All the time.

Heck, maybe I'm ignorant but I'm forever thinking "is there not some other place to shoot, if you feel your life in danger, other than directly for someone's heart?"

Or does every petty criminal -or those without any crime - when you have their identification/license/address etc, need to be always chased? Do they? No sarcasm. Could this sometimes be about bravado, ego or feeling that you had no control?

---- And to comment about relatives making out the victims as angels or well he was this or that - he had a record ----

Well, I often feel alone with this thought but criminals do not deserve to die at the hands of police or be beaten either, if they are not putting the officer's life in danger. So often I cringe for the families having to prove that their loved ones were worthy enough not to be roughed up or not to die.

Even when they were law abiding well-respected men and women. Why should they have to explain that? So we all believe an injustice happened. Sigh.

 

[asta]

And don't forget the shooting in Bristol, TN on Thursday where the gunman wanted to shoot whites, especially police officers. He wounded a police officer and killed a woman delivering newspapers. Or the police officer yesterday in Valdosta, GA who was shot after answering a 911 call from the shooter. Or the Missouri police officer who was shot in the back yesterday as he returned to his car after a traffic stop. Where is the outrage at the premeditated attacks on these people who were doing their jobs?

We need to replace the BLM crap with a Facts Matter hashtag.

In addition to the three acts of violence against police officers I mentioned above there is now a report of shots fired at police headquarters in San Antonio on Saturday night. Our police officers are under attack.

 

[lisaviolet]

In addition to the three acts of violence against police officers I mentioned above there is now a report of shots fired at police headquarters in San Antonio on Saturday night. Our police officers are under attack.

They are and it is insane and obviously horrific. I am so very sorry to hear that news, asta.

 

[Gracie09]

Read this. your numbers are off.

http://www.intellectualtakeout.org/blog/chicago-75-murdered-are-black-71-murderers-are-black

Your assuming their numbers and analysis are correct.

 

[Poohforyou]

There was forensic evidence that supported Zimmerman's story. Read it on Wikipedia. There are pictures of the injuries that George Zimmerman had. I have never vilified Martin, only pointed out that his death had nothing to do with police officers. BLM does blame the police for Martin's death. Also, some here say that Law Enforcement Officials didn't investigate properly, meaning Police. BLM vilifies Police Officers which led to those 5 Officers being killed and 7 Officers wounded. As I have said before, BLM uses lies and that led to the incitement that cost those Officers their lives. BLM in my opinion is a hate organization that doesn't care about facts and doesn't care about the law abiding citizens that they say they represent. If BLM could find a way to blame the Police for every thing that goes wrong in the Black community, they will shout it out which makes for divisiveness, not coming together and having dialogue. It seems to me that BLM is part of the problem and not the solution.

You're using Wikipedia as your reference source? Seriously? Do you realize school children are told not to use it because it isn't reliable. How would anyone think it's a legitimate source to refute a crime?

Honestly, marches, vigils, even protests don't frighten me nearly as much as some posts on this thread and the Dallas one. These days I find myself shaking my head in disbelief quite often at what I read from other Americans.

 

[katie01]

Did anyone follow what was happening in St. Paul last night? BLM shut down a stretch of the highway there, and as police officers tried to protect them from getting run over by motorists, the protesters threw the following at them: rebar, chunks of concrete, fireworks, and Molotov cocktails. I followed the St. Paul police Facebook page, and at one point the update said this:

*****
Interstate 94 is closed in both directions between 280 and downtown Saint Paul.

Our officers are currently negotiating with protesters to make symbolic arrests. Protesters are currently deciding who they would like to have arrested.

Stay tuned for updates.

****
Can anyone explain what symbolic arrests are? I don't understand letting the protestors choose who gets arrested either. If I threw fireworks at a police officer I don't think they'd let me choose whether or not I wanted to be arrested.

I agree that racism exists and I also believe that there are corrupt police officers who are victimizing and profiling black people, and they need to be removed from duty and/or jailed depending on what they have done. I also understand the sentiment behind the phrase "black lives matter", that it does not mean other lives don't matter, but rather is trying to raise awareness of the particular type of persecution people of color face in this country. But I don't at all agree with the protestors using and getting away with violence towards innocent people. And I am trying to understand how shutting down events and trying to cut off a city's revenue, as BLM attempted to do last night in Chicago (their stated goal was to shut down the Taste of Chicago, an event that celebrates multiculturalism through different ethnic food vendors, to hurt the city financially). I don't know what the objectives are for the group? How does cutting off revenue help stop corrupt police officers?

 

[katie01]

Here is the direct link to the Facebook page describing the events last night in St Paul https://www.facebook.com/stpaulpolice/?ref=ts&fref=ts

 

[perkinsrose]

http://policingequity.org/research/1687-2/

See link to read, it is long if you take the time, research release Friday. Thousands of items of data over years in multiple jurisdictions.
The Science of Justice: Race, Arrests, and Use of Force

 

[taitai]

http://policingequity.org/research/1687-2/

See link to read, it is long if you take the time, research release Friday. Thousands of items of data over years in multiple jurisdictions.
The Science of Justice: Race, Arrests, and Use of Force

The taser usage piece was particularly interesting. Thanks for posting.

 

[PrincessNelly]

Did anyone follow what was happening in St. Paul last night? BLM shut down a stretch of the highway there, and as police officers tried to protect them from getting run over by motorists, the protesters threw the following at them: rebar, chunks of concrete, fireworks, and Molotov cocktails. I followed the St. Paul police Facebook page, and at one point the update said this:

*****
Interstate 94 is closed in both directions between 280 and downtown Saint Paul.

Our officers are currently negotiating with protesters to make symbolic arrests. Protesters are currently deciding who they would like to have arrested.

Stay tuned for updates.

****
Can anyone explain what symbolic arrests are? I don't understand letting the protestors choose who gets arrested either. If I threw fireworks at a police officer I don't think they'd let me choose whether or not I wanted to be arrested.

I agree that racism exists and I also believe that there are corrupt police officers who are victimizing and profiling black people, and they need to be removed from duty and/or jailed depending on what they have done. I also understand the sentiment behind the phrase "black lives matter", that it does not mean other lives don't matter, but rather is trying to raise awareness of the particular type of persecution people of color face in this country. But I don't at all agree with the protestors using and getting away with violence towards innocent people. And I am trying to understand how shutting down events and trying to cut off a city's revenue, as BLM attempted to do last night in Chicago (their stated goal was to shut down the Taste of Chicago, an event that celebrates multiculturalism through different ethnic food vendors, to hurt the city financially). I don't know what the objectives are for the group? How does cutting off revenue help stop corrupt police officers?

What makes this even weirder is that my protesters were shooting live video which showed none of that. It showed them on the side of the highway marching and chanting.... but if this is true, that is wrong.

 

[luvsJack]

An appeal to emotion is not a way to formulate policy. Of course every crime victim is going to wish something had been done differently in order to prevent the crime, but it has to be weighed against individual rights and freedoms as well as against practical/administrative concerns. This is America, home to "innocent until proven guilty" and "probable cause"; profiling and the accompanying searches in the name of crime prevention fly in the face of both of those concepts.

It is one thing to say "they can come in any race or gender", but quite another to actually believe it. Say "gang member" to an average American and the picture that comes to mind is a young black or Hispanic man. And statistics bear that out - more than 90% of gang members are male, 85% under age 25, and 80% either black or Hispanic. So make no mistake - when you want police to engage in stops in the name of prevention, you are advocating pulling people over based on age, gender, and race. Anything else would be a waste of resources sacrificed at the altar of political correctness. If you want police to profile, own it for what it is - the belief that suspicion of minority men based on their race and gender is justified. Don't pretend it to be a color- and gender-neutral art of identifying criminals before they commit crimes.

But I am not talking about the average american, i am talking about a trained police officer. And you may think of black or hispanic when you think of gang members or drug dealers but that would be your racial opinions not mine.

Its not a matter of me wanting anyone to do anything, it already happens. People are stopped every day on the same nearby interstate that ds and his truck were pulled over and drugs found that were being transported to other cities. Guess what? Not all black or hispanic. But many were profiled just like ds was. And I wouldn't call huge drug busts a waste of resources.

 

[katie01]

What makes this even weirder is that my protesters were shooting live video which showed none of that. It showed them on the side of the highway marching and chanting.... but if this is true, that is wrong.

I'd be glad to hear if this were wrong, I'm happy to hear of demonstrations that take place peacefully. Let me see what is up with the link

 

[JimMIA]

****
Can anyone explain what symbolic arrests are? I don't understand letting the protestors choose who gets arrested either. If I threw fireworks at a police officer I don't think they'd let me choose whether or not I wanted to be arrested.

Getting arrested is often an important public relations component of a demonstration. The person being arrested (usually leaders of the demonstration) wants to "make a stand" for the publicity benefit. The police negotiate and cooperate in the choreography of the whole thing, usually as a means to defusing the situation and bringing the demonstration to a peaceful close.

Symbolic arrests don't always work as planned. We had a situation in Miami many years ago during a migrant workers strike where four symbolic arrests were negotiated (Caesar Chavez and three of his top people). A line was literally drawn on the ground, the TV cameras were positioned, and when all was ready Chavez and the others stepped across the line and were arrested. You've heard about the 10% that don't get the memo? About 90% of the demonstrators didn't get the memo! More than 200 people stepped across the line and were arrested and had to spend the night in jail because the organization didn't have enough money to bail them out. It was a mess, but everybody just laughed it off and worked harder on communications at future demonstrations.

 

[ASchwa]

You're using Wikipedia as your reference source? Seriously? Do you realize school children are told not to use it because it isn't reliable. How would anyone think it's a legitimate source to refute a crime?

Honestly, marches, vigils, even protests don't frighten me nearly as much as some posts on this thread and the Dallas one. These days I find myself shaking my head in disbelief quite often at what I read from other Americans.

I take Wikipedia with skepticism. Yes, Wikipedia is not the best source but it is ok especially with pictures. It showed Zimmerman with injuries and the picture came from the police. A fact is a fact, no matter where you get it from. There was also a lot that agreed with what JIMMIA said. That poster knows what he is talking about. Peaceful protests don't bother me either, it is the Molotov cocktails, chunks of concrete, and guns that bother me. BLM encourages that type of incitement instead of peaceful protests. Look at what happened in Ferguson, Missouri. That community will have a difficult time coming back from the riots that was because of a criminal. That angers me. People lost their jobs and one or two lost their lives in those riots. Now 5 officers, who had nothing to do with what happened in Minnesota and Louisiana lost their lives. Maybe you ought to look at the difference between peaceful protests and what BLM actually stands for.

 

[belle032]

I am a young white woman. I am not a minority in any way, shape or form. I do not know what it is to be looked at differently because of my skin color. I've never felt fear just by walking down the street. I've never had someone refuse me service or cross the street because they didn't like the look of me. I don't know the feeling of having a target on my back. If a police officer stops me, the only thing I fear is a speeding ticket.

I don't care what race you are. The simple fact that an entire race of human beings has these valid fears is a problem. A big problem. And instead of working together to figure out the root of the problem, we automatically take one side and blame the other. The All Lives Matter stance is ridiculous to me. Of course they are. No one is saying lives don't matter. That statement basically just sweeps every problem under the rug. It's what you say when you don't want to find a solution to the underlying problem because you're comfortable with how things are. And you're not the ones feeling these fears everyday.

By the way, you can be pro-blacklivesmatter and pro-law enforcement. They aren't mutually exclusive. Shouldn't we all really be both of those things anyway?