"Black Lives Matter" - it's stupid. Just cut the crap.....

[katie01]

Getting arrested is often an important public relations component of a demonstration. The person being arrested (usually leaders of the demonstration) wants to "make a stand" for the publicity benefit. The police negotiate and cooperate in the choreography of the whole thing, usually as a means to defusing the situation and bringing the demonstration to a peaceful close.

Symbolic arrests don't always work as planned. We had a situation in Miami many years ago during a migrant workers strike where four symbolic arrests were negotiated (Caesar Chavez and three of his top people). A line was literally drawn on the ground, the TV cameras were positioned, and when all was ready Chavez and the others stepped across the line and were arrested. You've heard about the 10% that don't get the memo? About 90% of the demonstrators didn't get the memo! More than 200 people stepped across the line and were arrested and had to spend the night in jail because the organization didn't have enough money to bail them out. It was a mess, but everybody just laughed it off and worked harder on communications at future demonstrations.

I see, thank you for the explanation, I didn't understand what they were referring to with that.

 

[Poohforyou]

I take Wikipedia with skepticism. Yes, Wikipedia is not the best source but it is ok especially with pictures. It showed Zimmerman with injuries and the picture came from the police. A fact is a fact, no matter where you get it from. There was also a lot that agreed with what JIMMIA said. That poster knows what he is talking about. Peaceful protests don't bother me either, it is the Molotov cocktails, chunks of concrete, and guns that bother me. BLM encourages that type of incitement instead of peaceful protests. Look at what happened in Ferguson, Missouri. That community will have a difficult time coming back from the riots that was because of a criminal. That angers me. People lost their jobs and one or two lost their lives in those riots. Now 5 officers, who had nothing to do with what happened in Minnesota and Louisiana lost their lives. Maybe you ought to look at the difference between peaceful protests and what BLM actually stands for.

And perhaps you shouldn't paint with such a broad stroke. I'm not a BLM cheerleader but they have been plenty of completely peaceful demonstrations around the country.

As for Wikipedia, pictures can be photo shopped. Finally, saying someone is right because others agree with him isn't a convincing argument.

 

[JimMIA]

What makes this even weirder is that my protesters were shooting live video which showed none of that. It showed them on the side of the highway marching and chanting.... but if this is true, that is wrong.

Well, I wouldn't expect someone participating in a demonstration to broadcast people throwing rocks and bottles! But it DID happen and it's been widely reported in the news media. 40-50 people were arrested. Here's a link to a CNN piece on the situation: http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/10/us/black-lives-matter-protests/

Frankly, I doubt if anyone in law enforcement was surprised, given the emotions involved. And, although I haven't researched it, I'd expect that most of the demonstrations were disruptive but peaceful.

 

[JimMIA]

Wikipedia aside, the forensic evidence in the Zimmerman case is a matter of public record that anyone can look up. The minor injuries he suffered were not nearly as important as the ballistics, gun powder residue, and other scientific evidence.

 

[sunshinehighway]

I take Wikipedia with skepticism. Yes, Wikipedia is not the best source but it is ok especially with pictures. It showed Zimmerman with injuries and the picture came from the police. A fact is a fact, no matter where you get it from. There was also a lot that agreed with what JIMMIA said. That poster knows what he is talking about. Peaceful protests don't bother me either, it is the Molotov cocktails, chunks of concrete, and guns that bother me. BLM encourages that type of incitement instead of peaceful protests. Look at what happened in Ferguson, Missouri. That community will have a difficult time coming back from the riots that was because of a criminal. That angers me. People lost their jobs and one or two lost their lives in those riots. Now 5 officers, who had nothing to do with what happened in Minnesota and Louisiana lost their lives. Maybe you ought to look at the difference between peaceful protests and what BLM actually stands for.

You can't take things and just put them in a vacuum though. That seems to happen often with Ferguson. The shooting of Michael Brown may have been the spark but there was a powder keg built up long before that. Thelongstanding abuses of power there helped set the stage for Ferguson. It's not like everything there was fine and dandy and people just randomly got upset over that shooting. I think that point often gets lost
You can look at Michael Brown's shooting and think people just jumped to conclusions and/or overreacted but the bigger question should be why did they do that? What was going on in that community that citizen would react that way? The DOJ report shed a huge light on the why but instead of understanding the bigger problem it just gets dismissed as an overreaction or false narrative.

 

[Laugh O. Grams]

And perhaps you shouldn't paint with such a broad stroke. I'm not a BLM cheerleader but they have been plenty of completely peaceful demonstrations around the country.

As for Wikipedia, pictures can be photo shopped. Finally, saying someone is right because others agree with him isn't a convincing argument.

We had a BLM demonstration the night after the Dallas shooting here in Detroit and it was very peaceful and well coordinated. The discussion was not just about racial equality and community relations with the DPD, but also about the lifting the inner city neighborhoods and black on black violence. The people who take these tragedies and spin them to meet a long standing political view rather than try to be empathetic and listen to what's happening on the other side of the debate are just as much as problem as anything.

 

[JimMIA]

Here's another story on the MN demonstration: http://www.startribune.com/about-100-arrested-in-st-paul-protests/386197981/

27 officers injured by rocks, bottles, and other objects.

 

[katie01]

What makes this even weirder is that my protesters were shooting live video which showed none of that. It showed them on the side of the highway marching and chanting.... but if this is true, that is wrong.

Ok, I did some more digging, and found this link, also describing the throwing of fireworks and rebar, resulting in injury: http://www.cbsnews.com/news/protests-against-police-shootings-continue-st-paul-baton-rouge/ I wasn't there of course, so I believe you in saying you didn't witness any of that, but I'm not sure why this was reported. Maybe more information will come out later. At any rate, thankfully no officers or protestors were killed

 

[DebbieB]

I don't think there is more violence today, it gets more attention with cable news and social media. I live in Pittsburgh and about 20 years ago a young black man died at a traffic stop, he was suffocated by police holding him down. It was a big local story but it didn't blow up into a national story like it would now. It's always been there but now is more widely publicized.

 

[luvsJack]

We had a BLM demonstration the night after the Dallas shooting here in Detroit and it was very peaceful and well coordinated. The discussion was not just about racial equality and community relations with the DPD, but also about the lifting the inner city neighborhoods and black on black violence. The people who take these tragedies and spin them to meet a long standing political view rather than try to be empathetic and listen to what's happening on the other side of the debate are just as much as problem as anything.

That's good to know. Imo, this is what these demonstrations should be about. And this is the way to be listened to. Not by throwing concret slabs and molotov cocktails.

 

[katie01]

That's good to know. Imo, this is what these demonstrations should be about. And this is the way to be listened to. Not by throwing concret slabs and molotov cocktails.

Agreed. We all need to work together to create change, not be driven apart by more violence

 

[CPanther95]

You can't take things and just put them in a vacuum though. That seems to happen often with Ferguson. The shooting of Michael Brown may have been the spark but there was a powder keg built up long before that. Thelongstanding abuses of power there helped set the stage for Ferguson. It's not like everything there was fine and dandy and people just randomly got upset over that shooting. I think that point often gets lost
You can look at Michael Brown's shooting and think people just jumped to conclusions and/or overreacted but the bigger question should be why did they do that? What was going on in that community that citizen would react that way? The DOJ report shed a huge light on the why but instead of understanding the bigger problem it just gets dismissed as an overreaction or false narrative.

If there are plenty of examples of real injustices - and I don't doubt that there are - then that should be the focus of these protests. The reason Ferguson gets dismissed as a false narrative because it was indeed a false narrative. The protest in Ferguson was very much directed at a specific event with very specific demands made for what they expected to happen to the officer involved. That's the risk they take when they have a knee-jerk reaction to every incident before they find out the truth of the matter. They were more interested in gathering a lynch-mob than they were in seeking to bring to light the injustices in the system.

That's why they have no credibility with the majority of Americans. You don't fight injustice with injustice. You don't willingly railroad innocent police officers (or potentially innocent police officers) and then whine when reasonable people consider your organization anti-cop. Intentional or not, that mentality isn't a call for justice, it's a call for revenge - and sadly they are getting it. All they have accomplished with the law enforcement community they wanted to change is to create a bigger, more immediate problem to draw their focus and diminish their will to correct the deeper problems the movement is pretending to care about.

 

[asta]

I have a question for those of you upset about police behavior in the shooting in Minnesota. Have any of you seen any evidence about what happened to cause the police officer to shoot? Everyone has seen the girlfriend's video after this terrible incident. We have heard her side. We have heard testimonials that tell that he was a nice guy. He looks like a nice guy with a beautiful smile. Those are heartbreaking. But what I am looking for is any evidence that shows what happened leading up to the shooting because at our very foundation is the presumption of innocent until proven guilty. Just because you are a police officer does not mean this fundamental right is suspended.

That is my problem with the marchers. To my knowledge none of them have proof. They are seeking to replace the rule of law with mob mentality. We should be better than that.

 

[Bluestars]

Any group of people who encourages violence toward another group of people is a hate group. Any group of people who uses intimidation and aggression over another group of people to provoke a reaction or show power is a hate group. I've seen many instances of this intimidation and encouragement with certain groups and it is counterproductive to creating positive changes.

 

[ChloroformSdxn]

Even if they don't have proof because of a specific incident, it doesn't matter. They don't care about that specific incident. When they're marching, they're thinking of all the times they've been pulled over. All the times they've been in fear for their lives, or those of their loved ones, because maybe this is the 20th time they've been pulled over and they have to yes sir and no sir to avoid getting beaten or shot. They aren't JUST reacting to an incident on the news. They are living this, every single day of their lives. They've had their daughter come home after being kicked in the ribs by the police, they've been pulled over 3 times that month, they've seen it in their communities every day. They've always lived this. I dated a black man for about 2 years. The only time I've been in a car and pulled over multiple times was when I was in a car with him. In the twenty years I've been driving, I've never had that happen to me, and it was a regular occurrence.

As a white person, I don't get to tell them how to be "good" black people.

 

[asta]

Even if they don't have proof because of a specific incident, it doesn't matter. They don't care about that specific incident. When they're marching, they're thinking of all the times they've been pulled over. All the times they've been in fear for their lives, or those of their loved ones, because maybe this is the 20th time they've been pulled over and they have to yes sir and no sir to avoid getting beaten or shot. They aren't JUST reacting to an incident on the news. They are living this, every single day of their lives. They've had their daughter come home after being kicked in the ribs by the police, they've been pulled over 3 times that month, they've seen it in their communities every day. They've always lived this. I dated a black man for about 2 years. The only time I've been in a car and pulled over multiple times was when I was in a car with him. In the twenty years I've been driving, I've never had that happen to me, and it was a regular occurrence.

As a white person, I don't get to tell them how to be "good" black people.

But proof does matter when you demand action be taken against specific people, police officers in this case. It is really all that matters.

 

[CPanther95]

As a white person, I don't get to tell them how to be "good" black people.

Not sure why anyone would have a different standard just based on someone's race.

 

[taitai]

I have a question for those of you upset about police behavior in the shooting in Minnesota. Have any of you seen any evidence about what happened to cause the police officer to shoot? Everyone has seen the girlfriend's video after this terrible incident. We have heard her side. We have heard testimonials that tell that he was a nice guy. He looks like a nice guy with a beautiful smile. Those are heartbreaking. But what I am looking for is any evidence that shows what happened leading up to the shooting because at our very foundation is the presumption of innocent until proven guilty. Just because you are a police officer does not mean this fundamental right is suspended.

That is my problem with the marchers. To my knowledge none of them have proof. They are seeking to replace the rule of law with mob mentality. We should be better than that.

Well, a lot is still being figured out. The police pulled him over because he had a broken tail light (that is what the video suggested) although pictures at the scene show his tail light was operational. So, maybe for Driving While Black. There is unconfirmed police scanner audio that suggests he was pulled over due to his "wide set nose" which matched that of a suspect in an armed robbery several days earlier. The lawyer for the policeman said he shot him due to the presence of a gun. There is no gun visible in the girlfriend's video and at no point have the police said he pulled a gun. He just mentioned he had a license to carry. Half the state has a license to carry. This is Minnesota. So, you have to wonder why this guy got shot when white guys are pulled over for speeding or other violations all the time and are not shot.

 

[mnrose]

I have a question for those of you upset about police behavior in the shooting in Minnesota. Have any of you seen any evidence about what happened to cause the police officer to shoot? Everyone has seen the girlfriend's video after this terrible incident. We have heard her side. We have heard testimonials that tell that he was a nice guy. He looks like a nice guy with a beautiful smile. Those are heartbreaking. But what I am looking for is any evidence that shows what happened leading up to the shooting because at our very foundation is the presumption of innocent until proven guilty. Just because you are a police officer does not mean this fundamental right is suspended.

That is my problem with the marchers. To my knowledge none of them have proof. They are seeking to replace the rule of law with mob mentality. We should be better than that.

There has been no report from the Falcon Heights department on "their" version of the story. I find that interesting myself.

There HAVE been reports that the officers decided that the Mr. Castille matched the description of a robbery suspect in the area because he had dreadlocks "and a wide nose." So, they pulled him over, using the ostensible "tail light out" as their immediate justification for doing so. But, what exactly prompted the officer to shoot (let alone 4 or 5 times) is unclear as no explanation has been given. (BTW, in case it's not clear, there is ZERO evidence that Mr. Castille was, in fact, the person they sought. He had a wide nose and dreadlocks, but honestly, that probably described a goodly percentage of the black men in our state.

ETA: A lawyer representing the cop has said that the cop was "reacting to a gun", although he declined to say what he meant by that. We already know that Mr. Castille was carrying a weapon, which he was authorized to carry, and announced same to the officer. Again, I find it intriguing that the lawyer declined to elaborate on what "reacting to a gun" meant. If Mr. Castille was flashing the gun in some sort of hostile way, surely this would be announced, right? The mere presence of a gun isn't license to kill is it?

 

[mnrose]

nt