Big News

[Wakey]

I was the one that got on the chat yesterday. Here is what they had stated:
I just copied and pasted the text, I didn't copy the actual window.

Members who purchase resale contracts for any of the existing 14 resorts will not be able to stay at future resorts, including Disney's Riviera Resort and Reflections - A Disney Lakeside Lodge.Additionally, once sales of Disney's Riviera Resort begin, Members who purchase resale contracts at Disney's Riviera Resort will only be able to stay at Disney's Riviera Resort.
This process will also apply to any locations built in the future.

Yep, and DVC Resalemarket who nailed this (many friends still working as guides) also stated this.

There's no way someone at DVC responding to this would make this up off the top of their head in my view.

They'd have absolutely zero reason to tell current members on their dashboards about this restriction on all new resorts going forward. In fact, I suspect they'll never broadcast it. I believe JGINPL above asked the question. How many uneducated buyers read their dashboard yesterday and thought ' I always was told resale restrictions were coming, can't wait to buy a new direct contract, this has affirmed my decision to buy direct' or something to that effect. DVD don't want to kick start a more detailed thought process in these people.

There is pretty much zero point in DVD doing this to only create another resale monster. This gradually slays the beast, by a million cuts, guaranteeing death in about 30 years. The same model on DVC 2 would guarantee the monster just morphs, and never dies.

They always have a reversal ''out" if their plans don't work out.

There is always a small chance DVD could change plans if they detect it may hit sales before they ever get going, but I thoroughly believe the current plan is as stated.

 

[Dean]

That being the case, I don't see losing any value to an original 14, resale contract. If you want to stay at any of the new resorts you will just have to buy direct. Not earth shattering

It remains to be seen. In part it depends on the specifics including other changes that may be coming. DVC sold SSR, they'll sell the new resorts with this in place and spin it (correctly or not) as a positive to the buyers. It will have it's good points including access to both systems. Very few look at resale value thus I'm not sure this will be all the negative impact on retail and may actually boost it.

the solid resale market is the primary reason I purchased resale in the first place. Had there been no solid resale market, I'm not sure that I could have convinced my wife to go along with this.

But you are the exception. Here on DIS and other sites there will be a % of people that are better informed and thus make different decisions but even here I've seen lots of people buy that clearly should not have, including retail when it was almost double with no true benefit.

Looking forward to buying that Riviera contract in 2022 at $50 a point...assuming Riviera is a decent resort.

I think we're (or at least new resale buyers) are very, very lucky they didn't declare ALL resale contracts now get you only home resorts going forward. And that still could come in a few years.

Unlikely, ultimately this will likely hurt all resale but it'll be a few resorts before it has a major impact I suspect.

I think if they did that they would almost certainly face a class action legal challenge. Doesn't mean they might not try and ultimately win, but far less controversial to change the value of something that no one has been able to buy yet before they can.

FWIW, if they ever did announce that they are going to limit resale contract of the existing 14 resorts to home resort use only I will immediately sell my points for whatever I can get before the rule change takes effect.

I don't see how. If they create a new timeshare system with a crossover, it's perfectly legal and within the rules. Now if they try to add these resorts to the current club, that's a different matter.

And what do you do if you are a top salesman for Disney and you have a hard time making money? You leave Disney. Where do you go? Probably to one of the top resale companies - or hang out your own shingle.

So part of this could be to slow down the attrition of Guides.

I suspect that the top problem facing the new management was dissatisfaction and atttrition of guides. This gives them short term relief in return for long term pain, but a future management team can figure that out.

Easy to spin for sales, they can turn this into an advantage esp if Riviera and future resorts are very desirable.

Or maybe add some extra benefits to direct sales?

20% off dining? That wouldn’t cost a damn thing. 20% off dining plan would be an even better ploy.

Hell, throw in one extra fast pass per visit for a few years. With Star Wars coming up you’d have instant sales.

Actually there would be cost to this. This is a Disney Perk, not a DVC one, they don't have control. In order to offer it they either need Disney to offer it or they need to pay for it. It's not much different than the free valet parking issue.

The POS defines the Legacy14 resorts as part of the club, meaning points can be used to book other resorts in the club at 7 months. So implement this sort of restriction they would have to do something very radical, like removing all resorts from the Vacation Club and put them into the new system.
However DVD cannot do this anymore, it would be DVCMC decision, and it would be very funny seeing them in court and explaining a judge how this is in the interest of the membership.
No, they cannot do it for the Legacy14, but DVD can certainly decide to put new resorts in whatever club they want and create a new club with rules for exchange with the older resorts. DVCMC decision to join the new exchange program for the older resorts can be seen as benefiting the members, so no issue there.

I don't understand how DVD can decide that contracts sold direct at the older resorts qualify for the exchange program while resales don't. While that decision is taken by DVD while writing the contracts for Riviera, DVCMC would and should have a say in this. They have a lot of barganing power at the moment, imagine Riviera opening without an exchange program with older resorts, it would be worthless, very few people would pay $200 a point for that. So DVCMC should bargain for us a better deal and ask that resale purchaser at the Legacy14 should continue to be able to trade into the new system. If DVD refuses, they can open Riviera as a standalone resort, we would still have 14 resorts in "our" Vacation Club.
Another question for the DVCMC management.

There has to be a crossover system but it doesn't have to be completely "fair". This is very similar to Marriott when they went from weeks to points. There the points side has a slight advantage but they don't have access to the weeks side unless the weeks owners opt in for that specific week. DVC has a different setup. Currently we own a resort with an exchange feature, we don't own a part of all current resorts. It would be easy for them to give the same access at 7 months as all other exchange owners. But they could only give up as much inventory on one side as the other side gives up, it's can't be unlimited. Let's assume DVC II had exactly the same # of points as the current system and no one resorts leaving all inventory in the old system available, the new system points could not book the entire availability at the old resorts.

 

[4luv2cdisney]

please link the chat window -- b/c, no offense, I can't possibly foresee an instance where a chat person would disclose such high level strategery. It. just. wouldn't. happen.

There is also at least one link to a trusted blog with a quote from a disne y rep on the rumors board. It's being reported by a couple of resale sites and disney info sites.

They didn't announce the price changes coming in 1 week either. But all the guides say it is so. They Rofrd huge amounts of contracts last month and I'm being told the waitlist are swamped and I probably won't get any points before the increase despite being willing to take multiple resorts.

 

[TexasChick123]

Why would anyone do a direct add on now? Are people gluttons for punishment? DVD has just announced more restrictions, increased points requirements, and is planning a huge price increase to go into effect next week after the last huge price increase. Why in the world would you give them more money?!? Because there are people that are rushing to add on direct before the next price increase is exactly why they do these kinds of things. They can do whatever they want and people will still pay these ludicrous prices. If people refuse to buy direct, the changes will stop or at least slow down.

 

[oldwash]

I don't think the sky is falling on resale prices. I believe they are and will continue to be driven by what Disney charges for new resorts, at least until the get closer to expiration. Also, folks buying direct aren't thinking resale, so don't believe this will be an issue on direct sales for Disney.

 

[Dean]

Why would anyone do a direct add on now? Are people gluttons for punishment? DVD has just announced more restrictions, increased points requirements, and is planning a huge price increase to go into effect next week after the last huge price increase. Why in the world would you give them more money?!? Because there are people that are rushing to add on direct before the next price increase is exactly why they do these kinds of things. They can do whatever they want and people will still pay these ludicrous prices. If people refuse to buy direct, the changes will stop or at least slow down.

Sure but it's always been that way. Most buy retail and most don't understand the limitations. They won't go in and explain all the options, only the positives. Most simply are unaware and often when they are aware their emotions get in the way of the best decisions.

 

[ziravan]

It's a good comment - they really didn't fully explain that one. All they are saying right now is resale buyers at Riviera will only be able to stay at Riviera. Direct buyers can stay at Riviera AND the other 14 as well - so it really isn't truly a separate DVC 2. I can't imagine that they would let them exchange into Reflections.

I feel like Disney might be opening a messy can of worms with this decision.

I guess I should have read ahead a little: this was all discussed after the point where I posted:

~~~~~~

They aren’t really saying that, either. All they’re saying right now is that going forward, resale buyers of the Legacy 14 are limited to trades within the 14. They made no comment about Riviera resale buyers.

Riviera resale buyers might also be able to trade into the Legacy 14. Maybe, maybe not; doesn’t say. I presume we’ll find out about that soon enough, when they publish Riviera sales into.

But. It could also possibly be that this limitation is strictly limited to the resale purchases of the Legacy 14 and doesn’t affect Riviera resale buyers at all. What they published just doesn’t say one way or another.

 

[4luv2cdisney]

Why would anyone do a direct add on now? Are people gluttons for punishment? DVD has just announced more restrictions, increased points requirements, and is planning a huge price increase to go into effect next week after the last huge price increase. Why in the world would you give them more money?!? Because there are people that are rushing to add on direct before the next price increase is exactly why they do these kinds of things. They can do whatever they want and people will still pay these ludicrous prices. If people refuse to buy direct, the changes will stop or at least slow down.

Because many of us newer members had a 2 or 3 step plan for ownership and without the rest of our points our membership is kinda ....well... pointless. Lol.

It's like all the agony of those who were in the middle of a resale purchase with the intent of adding 25 for benefits and then minimum went to 75. They'd slightly shorted themselves and now what?

I need 2 more small contracts to complete my plan. If I dont, I may as well sell. So my options are to rush thru a resale contract that as far as I can see doesn't even exist and save $20-30 / pt or try to rush thru a direct sale before the price increase. We have no interest in buying Riviera, but would possibly stay there to try it and who knows what future resorts we may want to stay at.

Does it piss me off? Yes. But I'm still keeping my existing points and I need a few more to make things work. Especially since we have seen that they can apparently create more point s requirements for our planned stays.

Fwiw, I'm on waitlist for direct but hoping a resale pops up. But will it pass ROFR? If not, I've lost again.

 

[zavandor]

I don't think the sky is falling on resale prices. I believe they are and will continue to be driven by what Disney charges for new resorts, at least until the get closer to expiration. Also, folks buying direct aren't thinking resale, so don't believe this will be an issue on direct sales for Disney.

I think that resale will increase in the medium term at the Legacy14 resorts, because:

• Disney is going to announce a price increase soon, every time this happened resale has followed
• Once people will realize that buying resale at a Legacy14 resort will still give access to all 14 resorts, while buying Riviera resale will give access to Riviera only, the older contracts will be even more sought after
• People paying a premium resale to buy at BCV or VGF do so to stay there most if not all the time. Non being able to access Riviera doesn't change that in the slightest
• SSR will still be the cheapest resort to buy to sleep around, not being able to trade into Riviera doesn't change that

There might be some short term panic, but in the medium range it'll go upward. In the long term, when 2042 will approach, it's another matter.

 

[oldwash]

Sure but it's always been that way. Most buy retail and most don't understand the limitations. They won't go in and explain all the options, only the positives. Most simply are unaware and often when they are aware their emotions get in the way of the best decisions.

Of course, if it turns out you really like your Home Resort, the really big pro is you might actually be able to book it on a shorter notice.

 

[Dean]

Because many of us newer members had a 2 or 3 step plan for ownership and without the rest of our points our membership is kinda ....well... pointless. Lol.

It's like all the agony of those who were in the middle of a resale purchase with the intent of adding 25 for benefits and then minimum went to 75. They'd slightly shorted themselves and now what?

I need 2 more small contracts to complete my plan. If I dont, I may as well sell. So my options are to rush thru a resale contract that as far as I can see doesn't even exist and save $20-30 / pt or try to rush thru a direct sale before the price increase. We have no interest in buying Riviera, but would possibly stay there to try it and who knows what future resorts we may want to stay at.

Does it piss me off? Yes. But I'm still keeping my existing points and I need a few more to make things work. Especially since we have seen that they can apparently create more point s requirements for our planned stays.

You could also buy retail for the older resorts, sounds like they're stocking up on ROFR to have that option.

 

[JETSDAD]

They aren’t really saying that, either. All they’re saying right now is that going forward, resale buyers of the Legacy 14 are limited to trades within the 14. They made no comment about Riviera resale buyers.

Riviera resale buyers might also be able to trade into the Legacy 14. Maybe, maybe not; doesn’t say. I presume we’ll find out about that soon enough, when they publish Riviera sales into.

But. It could also possibly be that this limitation is strictly limited to the resale purchases of the Legacy 14 and doesn’t affect Riviera resale buyers at all. What they published just doesn’t say one way or another.

It is exactly what MS has been telling people. Through chat they have told people that Riviera resale will only be able to stay at Riviera. The resale sites, who likely have gotten their info from MS or people they still know working at Disney, have also stated the same.

 

[Dean]

Of course, if it turns out you really like your Home Resort, the really big pro is you might actually be able to book it on a shorter notice.

Maybe, maybe not. All current owners will have access, this wouldn't happen until a lot of points are bought resale going forward. But it might be a good option for resale if you really only want that resort. You'll need to be educated more than the average buyer historically has been.

 

[JETSDAD]

Of course, if it turns out you really like your Home Resort, the really big pro is you might actually be able to book it on a shorter notice.

Why would you be able to book on shorter notice? To start most of the existing points in the system can still book there. Once things work their way through in the future you may have some less competition from the legacy resorts but then you also have owners there who can't book elsewhere so will all be competing for that resort.

 

[4luv2cdisney]

You could also buy retail for the older resorts, sounds like they're stocking up on ROFR to have that option.

Yes, I'm on wait list for SSR, BLT, and BWV. They said only CCV is avail now for my UY. I guess if I don't get thru before the increase I can still buy SSR or OKW direct as the increase isn't huge. I really wanted BLT. I really love BWV but only have enough points for 4-5 nights and wanted a mk resort to split stay. Love the walk to park aspect. Such a time saver.

 

[mustinjourney]

I was the one that got on the chat yesterday. Here is what they had stated:
I just copied and pasted the text, I didn't copy the actual window.

Members who purchase resale contracts for any of the existing 14 resorts will not be able to stay at future resorts, including Disney's Riviera Resort and Reflections - A Disney Lakeside Lodge.Additionally, once sales of Disney's Riviera Resort begin, Members who purchase resale contracts at Disney's Riviera Resort will only be able to stay at Disney's Riviera Resort.
This process will also apply to any locations built in the future.

That’s more or less the same text as the offficial language.

So clearly the chat person didn’t specifically state that management was intentionally trying to kill the resale market as the other poster stated.

 

[skier_pete]

What's a little interesting to think about (theoretically) is what happens to the Original 14 when they start running out of contract. If you buy a resale contract afater Jan 19, in 2042 when BCV, OKW, BWV, WL-VBR etc all end their contracts and they "reboot" these resorts, what happens with my AKV contract - now I can't stay at those resorts since they will start those with a new contract. I mean - no one thinks this far ahead, but it's a valid question when buying this. At least maybe just me, but I'm always thinking about 2042.

 

[skier_pete]

I would think this will have very little negative impact on the resale pricing in the short-term. While those of us that have been in this for a while might be turned off a bit, I don't think most buyers will be too worried that "I can't get into this one resort that isn't even open yet." As others said, it's maybe more of a long-term plan to reduce resale desirability for future resorts.

As I said, assuming the accuracy of the chat on that Riviera will not be able to trade out of it's own resort - while it won't completely kill resale, it will reduce it significantly. And at least THAT resort can get you to Epcot in 5 minutes and DHS in 15 minutes. Imagine the desirability to be locked into Reflections - which is a 20 minute boat ride from MK and buses to all the other resorts (likely shared buses at that). No thanks. Again, it won't drop to zero - after all even Vero Beach stays at $65 per point - but I could see these resales being closer to the $50-60 range as opposed to say $120-130 which Riviera would be if the trade-in was still in existance.

 

[sky2823]

I wonder if CCV is selling through the roof right now? Still discounted, fully available direct, full benefits and waitlists for all other properties, 50 years and resales can book at legacy 14.

Any chance the leak (not confirmed by DVC) about riveria resales not being able to book the legacy 14 part of the plan?

 

[DizneyLizzy]

I think that resale will increase in the medium term at the Legacy14 resorts, because:

• Disney is going to announce a price increase soon, every time this happened resale has followed
• Once people will realize that buying resale at a Legacy14 resort will still give access to all 14 resorts, while buying Riviera resale will give access to Riviera only, the older contracts will be even more sought after
• People paying a premium resale to buy at BCV or VGF do so to stay there most if not all the time. Non being able to access Riviera doesn't change that in the slightest
• SSR will still be the cheapest resort to buy to sleep around, not being able to trade into Riviera doesn't change that

There might be some short term panic, but in the medium range it'll go upward. In the long term, when 2042 will approach, it's another matter.

As a recent resale buyer, I still would have bought resale with these new restrictions in place. 14 legacy resorts? That's plenty for me. I'm only a once a year visitor, which I know isn't necessarily the norm around here, but I feel like I would have plenty of options even "only" having access to the legacy resorts. When I went to book my most recent trip, I had a hard enough time narrowing my choices with all of the resort options at WDW. I've been going to WDW since I was a baby in the 80s, and I've been staying at DVC resorts since about 2012, and there are still two resorts I haven't tried, but want to. For my purposes, resale would still definitely be the way to go. The legacy resorts are great. I'm happy to stay at any of them each trip.