Big Love premiered last night

[LoraJ]

I know!!!!!

 

[MushyMushy]

Wow. Poor Nicki! That conversation she had with JJ explained so much - why she's so "damaged," as Bill said.

And him, using her like that and still getting rid of her.

 

[Alicnwondrln]

I missed it what happened.

 

[matthew&haleysmom]

Wow! That was an interesting episode. Tonight really did explain so many things about Nikki. Looks like they are gearing up for the best episode ever next week.


Do you think Bill will have an out of body experience that will tell him he is supposed to be the next prophet?

 

[suzanna1066@comcast.]

I thought the whole money thing comes from having a lot of wives and children on welfare. The man takes the money from all his wives and they are left with a shelter and just the bare minimum basics while he is free to do with the money what he pleases, plus he has a job on top of his gravy train.

Many members of the FLDS have a variety of business interests---not to mention the businesses owned outright by the sect. Many members and the church are quite wealthy.

 

[Pinkpony]

Question: Why did the church leaders ask Barb if she was wearing her undergarments? Or words to that effect. Just curious.

 

[djm99]

I don't know how true - but I heard that the LDS owns Walgreens.

This season has been FABULOUS. Seriously, I can't even watch this sitting back or laying down. They are so intense. These writers are...are... AWESOME!!! They need some kind of reward, Grammy Oscar something. Maybe I watch too many comedies and documentaries because I can barely take it - they are so passionate.

 

[djm99]

Wow! That was an interesting episode. Tonight really did explain so many things about Nikki. Looks like they are gearing up for the best episode ever next week.


Do you think Bill will have an out of body experience that will tell him he is supposed to be the next prophet?

Who was the girl her ex wanted her to see - a daughter maybe?

 

[djm99]

Will Big Love begin its 4th season in June again or will they wait for the fall/winter?

 

[SpouseofDisneyholic]

Question: Why did the church leaders ask Barb if she was wearing her undergarments? Or words to that effect. Just curious.

Didn't watch, so I don't know the context you are talking about, but found this from an LDs member who did. Perhaps this can explain it more.

(Sorry in advance for length) To answer some questions already posted and possibly preemptively answer some others: This would not have been the first time Barb went through the temple for the "endowment ceremony". She most probably would have received them initially just prior to a temple marriage sealing ceremony, before a mission, etc. That first time is for one's self, subsequent visits are to perform the rites by proxy for the deceased (see the discussions a few weeks back re: Baptism for the dead). Return visits to the temple are not only possible but recommended and somewhat expected both for the proxy work to move forward and for the spiritual edification and increased understanding of the participant.

Now: Did it ring true? The "your fifteen mins. are up" sure as hell didn't. There's no time limit in the celestial room; the only time anything like that has happened to me was when it was the last session of the day and they were closing down.

Likewise this whole business of "outer darkness" shows a fundamental misunderstanding of Mormon cosmology. Outer Darkness is almost impossible for someone to find themselves consigned to.

As for the church court, I've never been in one but the way the Stake President was going about it was very specious. Gestapo tactics and panic over tape recorders!?!? Doesn't ring true to my experience but mine is but one. And a church leader in that context asking a person if they've been wearing their garments would not be understood by either party to be out of line or overly personal for anyone in that room, esp. Barb. The issue was the degree to which she's been living/abiding by her covenants, one of which is covenanting to wear your garments after you've initially gone through the endowment for yourself.

I've also not heard of random church courts being called for random inactive members. Church courts are typically for people who are actively involved in the church community and actively involved in activities that are severely contrary to Mormon standards. I.e. adulterers, child molesters, and in some cases activists who are severely undermining church positions from within and without. Even then it should be noted that excommunication means your name is removed from the records and you can't participate in certain aspects of worship. The "don't let the door hit you in the rear on your way out" addition of "and no more sealing or temple blessings for YOU!" seemed excessive, at least in the tone in which it was delivered. Again, I have not been excommunicated so perhaps fellow mormon, ex-mormon, quasi-mormon, etc. posters can divulge.

Additionally, the thought of Barb being dead set to go to the temple and stealing a recommend to do so after 7 years of inactivity...was a stretch. Someone as paranoid about "going to outer darkness" or otherwise pissing off the Almighty as Barb in this episode isn't going to compound things with sneaking into the temple---which is a big no-no for a mormon.

Last, and to second what I posted last week, I don't think depicting the temple ordinances and "secret handshakes" and so on was necessary or dramatically justified. Celestial Room scene didn't bother me, I don't know why they couldn't have just started the scene there since there was nothing plot or character advancing in the ordinances. Seems a very cheap "shock theater" shot on the part of the show. Likewise the increasing "hard *** mormons" thing is seeming pointlessly mean spirited and axe grinding. Even though Bill is clearly a delusional prick, the degree to which his attitude of "the church proper is no different from Roman" is shared by the writers are unfortunate. These are steps in the wrong direction for the show, at least for a Mormon who doesn't like cartoonish, schematic depictions of persons (of his faith or otherwise) where nuance and dimension were previously the norm.

 

[RNMOM]

Thanks SpouseofDisneyholic for you explaination. It helps a lot.

I am not a mormon but worked in a nursing home in Utah for a little while many years ago. Garments are a special style of undergarments. That's all. It is thought to be a protection from many elements, of which I am unclear. This is what the other nurses told me without telling me too much of their customs. You can google it for more information but the show did seem to make it more of an issue than needed.

I remember hearing of some excommunicating of a couple gay's when we lived there in the mid 80's. It was printed in the newspaper about the issue because of some opposition. I was really close to the Bishop's wife and the president of the Relief Society and never saw any of their 'special' items. They were very good about answering questions but were vague on many of the customs. That's okay IMHO but when it is shown then it tends to have more impact than it ought to.

 

[SpouseofDisneyholic]

Thanks SpouseofDisneyholic for you explaination. It helps a lot.

I am not a mormon but worked in a nursing home in Utah for a little while many years ago. Garments are a special style of undergarments. That's all. It is thought to be a protection from many elements, of which I am unclear. This is what the other nurses told me without telling me too much of their customs. You can google it for more information but the show did seem to make it more of an issue than needed.

I remember hearing of some excommunicating of a couple gay's when we lived there in the mid 80's. It was printed in the newspaper about the issue because of some opposition. I was really close to the Bishop's wife and the president of the Relief Society and never saw any of their 'special' items. They were very good about answering questions but were vague on many of the customs. That's okay IMHO but when it is shown then it tends to have more impact than it ought to.

No problem. Basically, garments are an outward expression of a commitment one makes in the temple to remain pure and live a live of virtue and chastity. That means no sex before marriage, and complete fidelity with one's spouse, and ONLY their spouse after marriage.

Hope that helps.

Another way to look at it is this... While many people are fascinated with HBO's portrayal of an offshoot polygamy sect, most of the world engages in serial polygamy day in and day out in out in the form of adultery, mistresses, casual sex, etc, etc.


To each his own I guess.

 

[Pinkpony]

No problem. Basically, garments are an outward expression of a commitment one makes in the temple to remain pure and live a live of virtue and chastity. That means no sex before marriage, and complete fidelity with one's spouse, and ONLY their spouse after marriage.

Hope that helps.

Another way to look at it is this... While many people are fascinated with HBO's portrayal of an offshoot polygamy sect, most of the world engages in serial polygamy day in and day out in out in the form of adultery, mistresses, casual sex, etc, etc.


To each his own I guess.

Yes, thanks for all the explanations! Barb seemed so shocked with the question, I wondered what was up.

My 16-yr-old son has been best friends with a Mormon boy since they were 6 years old. I've always been so amazed at how his family conducts their life. They are amazingly wholesome, hard-working, loving and genuine; much more so than the members of the church where we attend. I'm so impressed with them!

It does sadden me that Big Love is showing parts of the temple and rituals that they probably shouldn't. But I love the show! Awesome writing and acting. Chloe Seveigny (sp?) is so talented, as are so many others on the show.

 

[MosMom]

Wow. Poor Nicki! That conversation she had with JJ explained so much - why she's so "damaged," as Bill said.

And him, using her like that and still getting rid of her.

I turned to DH and said "Is this make up sex or one last hit the road nookie" and when he told her he wanted to be unsealed I said "I guess one last hit the road nookie."

How about getting the girl into therapy? That might be a good start for someone who has had a real **** life.

 

[starann]

DH was playing the Wii, so I missed the 1st 20mins or so...can anyone fill me in on the Nikki/jj thing?

 

[MosMom]

Did anyone see the SNL spoof on Big Love? It was pretty funny. The cast members playing each character were pretty perfect. They did the opening credits where they are all ice skating together and at the end Bill winked. Then the skit was Bill was bringing home a new wife and it was Tracy Morgan in drag. DH and I were rolling.

 

[MushyMushy]

DH was playing the Wii, so I missed the 1st 20mins or so...can anyone fill me in on the Nikki/jj thing?

Earlier in the season, Wanda let it out that Nikki had been married off at an early age. She was able to get unsealed from this guy. You probably saw that he showed up last week for Kathy's funeral and Wanda tried chasing him away... it came to light that he's actually Wanda's brother. He ran into Nikki at the compound and they had a brief discussion where they kept alluding to a young girl and they both said that their unsealing came at a great cost. It appeared that the girl they mentioned may be Nikki's daughter, which if that's the case would explain a whole lot about why she is the way she is.

 

[Pinkpony]

Did anyone see the SNL spoof on Big Love? It was pretty funny. The cast members playing each character were pretty perfect. They did the opening credits where they are all ice skating together and at the end Bill winked. Then the skit was Bill was bringing home a new wife and it was Tracy Morgan in drag. DH and I were rolling.

I so wish I had seen that!

 

[Quiksilvr]

Didn't watch, so I don't know the context you are talking about, but found this from an LDs member who did. Perhaps this can explain it more.

Now: Did it ring true? The "your fifteen mins. are up" sure as hell didn't. There's no time limit in the celestial room; the only time anything like that has happened to me was when it was the last session of the day and they were closing down.

Likewise this whole business of "outer darkness" shows a fundamental misunderstanding of Mormon cosmology. Outer Darkness is almost impossible for someone to find themselves consigned to.

As for the church court, I've never been in one but the way the Stake President was going about it was very specious. Gestapo tactics and panic over tape recorders!?!? Doesn't ring true to my experience but mine is but one. And a church leader in that context asking a person if they've been wearing their garments would not be understood by either party to be out of line or overly personal for anyone in that room, esp. Barb. The issue was the degree to which she's been living/abiding by her covenants, one of which is covenanting to wear your garments after you've initially gone through the endowment for yourself.

I've also not heard of random church courts being called for random inactive members. Church courts are typically for people who are actively involved in the church community and actively involved in activities that are severely contrary to Mormon standards. I.e. adulterers, child molesters, and in some cases activists who are severely undermining church positions from within and without. Even then it should be noted that excommunication means your name is removed from the records and you can't participate in certain aspects of worship. The "don't let the door hit you in the rear on your way out" addition of "and no more sealing or temple blessings for YOU!" seemed excessive, at least in the tone in which it was delivered. Again, I have not been excommunicated so perhaps fellow mormon, ex-mormon, quasi-mormon, etc. posters can divulge.

I can echo and confirm some of this.

No time limit in the Celestial Room... and I've been in one dozens of times.

Outer Darkness is a very easy concept to understand glibly, but that glib understanding is usually incomplete. A clear understanding of it is very nuanced and subtle. I've known a number of members who completely don't understand it correctly at all because they don't approach it in context of scripture other than the sections of the scriptures always cited generally. It doesn't surprise me that the Big Love producers got this wrong since many people I've seen in my local church unit explained it incompletely.

Church courts are not called for random inactive members. They take too much time and they have too many potential ramifications for that. I've never been the subject of one, but I know quite a bit about them based on friends who have been subject to them and from certain mission experiences. There are only a certain number of "sins" that even qualify one for a Church court (and this number has gotten smaller as time has passed). Those are generally fornication/adultery (and even that is not necessarily a given; depends on several factors), having an abortion, commission of a felony or actions that would be a felony if convicted (child and spouse abuse falls into this category), and open activism against the Church and its leaders. Also, whether one ends up in a Church court or not is often quite subjective and depends greatly upon your local leaders and your personal situation. A Church court can result in several consequences: (i) nothing, (ii) informal probation, (iii) disfellowshipment (formal probation), (iv) excommunication.

Also, one should understand that from the Church's point of view, excommunication is not always punitive. Many people who are excommunicated have been ex'd because they continue to engage in the bad behaviors, and it is better for them to be released from their obligations as Church members until they can shape up their act. I know several excommunicated individuals who came back to the Church (I actually taught/baptized one when I was on my mission) after a long period of time during which they figured their lives out. They had to go through several interviews with various leaders so that it was clear that this person was rejoining the Church for the right reason.

I used to watch Big Love when I had HBO and always enjoyed the show. I always would laugh at it because you could tell they had these former members as advisors and they wouldn't get things quite right, even from a factual standpoint. There are a lot of subtleties to things that are lost on people like that.

 

[4greatboys]

I checked You Tube and didn't see it on there yet.