Beginning in January - 18% Gratuity....

[Lowillian]

Another question because I don't want to read 40-some pages. On the Friday afternoon posts, it was still not clear if the 18% was just for DDE or across the board (not DDP). Was that ever cleared up?

 

[kaytieeldr]

The servers allowed the union to contract this...

Again, the servers did not 'allow' the union to contract this. I'm relatively certain every one of them was against it. But not enough of the union members ARE servers to have any effect on the final vote. I think it's something like less than ten percent. In addition, the current contract is effective until mid-2009, i.e. even "teaching them a lesson" won't have any reasonable effect except to probably chase them all away to other restaurants.

Many naysayers about whether or not the DDP will eventually ALSO be having a "mandatory" 18%, but if it does, I won't at all be surprised. Stay tuned....

It may - but not in 2008; but the 'naysayers' are trying to explain that the CURRENT change applies to only Guests using the DDE card/discount (and parties of six or more, payment method notwithstanding).

 

[TDC Nala]

18 percent automatic gratuity in 2008 = DDE members, cast member discount, parties of 6 or more no matter how they pay.

 

[bicker]

the only way to keep them staffed? how about starting with better pay?

Maybe all the posters who are (politely and concisely - that being the best way to get results) expressing their displeasure to Disney should include THIS recommendation?

Are the folks who are concerned about this really willing to pay significantly higher menu prices, without reducing the number of restaurant visits they make or how much they order at each visit, if they had reasonable assurance that the extra money would go to the servers? Even if so, it would be necessary not only for those so willing to agree to that, but rather for practically everyone who visits the restaurants to agree to do so. If prices go up to cover what we're talking about here, and fewer people patronize the restaurants, that's a bad thing for the restaurants, and so it would be unreasonable to expect them to do that.

No, I think what bicker's saying is that the diner is in COMPLETE control of the entire cost of service.

Thanks for highlighting this... I didn't see the message you were replying to....

sorry but your take is completely twisted.

No, just a reflection of reality that is perhaps uncomfortable, but true all the same.

yes patrons make up what the server unltimately recieves but reality is servers have a set wage(which should be set atandard to their job functions), then that wage gets added to based on their levelof service.

Actually, servers have a very small set wage, often less than minimum wages. This amount is reflective of how much the server deserves if they do an absolutely horrible job serving you. For every incremental amount better than that, you're morally obligated to make an honest assessment of the quality of service you receive, and compensate the server for that level of quality. I know a lot of people would rather this not be true, but this is the way the system is structured in our country now. In some countries it is a lot more-so the case (i.e., Egypt); In some countries it is a lot less-so the case (i.e., France). In our country, it is what it is.

you cant just say ok heres the wage and we need to get them all to __ wages so we add 18% auto

Actually, they can say that. It is, quite frankly, unusual in our society to do so, but for whatever reason Disney has found that the normal system, which we experience week-in and week-out in our own hometowns, isn't working well enough for them at WDW, so they're imposing a mandatory gratuity. That's life. They're surely entitled to do so. The amount they're charging is not outside the bounds of that which is reasonable. We each have the choice to either accept it or find someplace else to vacation/eat.

its dumb, it defeats the purpose of a tip, and its flat out just not right

The purpose of a tip is to compensate the server for service. See my earlier message which you replied to. I know that the urban legend is fun to repeat, but it simply isn't the truth. Snopes is an unassailable authority in that regard.

 

[kaytieeldr]

Why do they have a union if they do not negotiate their contracts for them?

One union represents upwards of fifteen thousand Cast Members, in a variety of departments.

 

[TLSnell1981]

Many naysayers about whether or not the DDP will eventually ALSO be having a "mandatory" 18%, but if it does, I won't at all be surprised. Stay tuned....

Having tips dictated never makes anyone happy. I'm not thrilled and much prefer my own discretion.

I do have to wonder, tho, if those really, really angry posters are really poor tippers, no tippers, tippers who don't get out much, or tippers who are oblivious. NO one on the DIS, tho..... what am I thinking!!!

No one worse at math than me. Have an "easy tip" feature on my cell phone - probably most of you do, too! Tend to leave MORE rather than less - always 20% or close. I've waited tables,hi-end and lo-end, and have had family in the business also on both ends. Also - I always tip in cash, whether or not my food bill is paid by CC or room charge. Just always seems like the right thing to do.

I think that once again, this new policy is driven not just by Disney passing costs on to the customers, as any industry does, but also by the abuses of a few impacting on the many.

I don't blame Disney for passing costs on to customers. That is how buisnesses make money. I agree that this will eventually be adopted for all dining...this is just a "test" using DDE as a guinea pig. I also believe Disney lost a lot of money doing free dining and having the gratuity included....this is why they have taken the gratuity out of this program.

I tip at Subway, Starbucks, buffets, etc....and significantly above the norm. I used to own a restaurant/bar...I know how hard a good server works. My rant is on principle...not saving a few bucks.

 

[kaytieeldr]

I knew my thread would be closed. "DDP instead of DDE -Revolt" I started it so a different view could be put on this.

As far as I know, that thread was closed ONLY because the Moderators are trying to keep all discussion of this change in one thread.

For the record, I do not believe Disney lost any money during any Free Dining promotion. The DDP tip change merely keeps MORE of Disney's money in Disney's pocket.

 

[bicker]

Ideally, if service is bad enough to warrant this action, the diner will start taking action WELL before the check comes, no?

And that's a point that WDW food & beverage folks have made to several of us in the past -- that too often guests just sit back and take bad service and then complain about AFTER it is too late to make the situation right. It sure is a neat way of fostering indignant outrage, but that's not how things are supposed to work. Rather, folks are supposed to raise concerns at the time they have them, so that management can apply a remedy before there can be a significant negative impact of a service failure felt.

It doesn't matter. Despite the focus on this 'explanation', it is NOT why Disney changed the DDE tipping policy.

This is an important point: Too often I see people fixate on an explanation or the lack of one. I think it is a great bit of social generosity when a service provider deigns to provide an explanation, but when they do so we consumers have an obligation to graciously accept that explanation. We don't have to like it or even believe it, but we have to acknowledge that we aren't owed ANY explanation of why whatsoever. The only thing owed to us is an explanation of what we're being offered -- NOT why we're being offered that.

If you don't like the explanation, then ignore it. It's not important. You can't eat explanations.

Apparently you've never lived through a sanitation engineer strike

Hehe.... the best example of that phenomenon, of course, is a plumber. When you toilets are backing up, you quickly come to realize that plumbers are the most important people on the face of the Earth.

 

[TLSnell1981]

One union represents upwards of fifteen thousand Cast Members, in a variety of departments.

It sounds like many don't get what they are paying for if the interests of the CMs are so generalized instead of each department's specific needs.

 

[kaytieeldr]

We don't have to like it or even believe it, but we have to acknowledge that we aren't owed ANY explanation of why whatsoever.

New automated WDW Communications response:
"Thank you for contacting Walt Disney World. In response to your e-mail - Because we said so. Period. Now stop bothering us."

 

[bicker]

Throwing money at a situation does not always improve that situation. ... You can't just say give them more money and expect that to be an easy fix. That money has to come from somewhere and believe me it will be your pocket. Then there would be another hue and cry on this forum about how expensive Disney is.

And Disney has learned that lesson the hard way, in the past. Several years back they got in a bidding war with Universal Studios and other venues in the Orlando area for top service staff. All the good people started moving around to get better pay. The result was a whole bunch of churn, lots of high-paid people spending a lot of time learning the ropes of their new jobs (i.e., a lot of cost was incurred to bring people up to speed after they jumped from one company to another), and in the end all the venues still ended up with the same number of people of the same quality (just different names), all with a much higher cost structure. The workers won out, of course, because they were getting paid a lot more to do the same quality work as before. The companies and we guests lots out, because higher costs translated partially into lower profits for companies and partially into high prices for guests. And of course, while the wage war was going on, we all suffered from lower quality due to the aforementioned churn.

Let's hope they don't make that mistake again.

As to the comment about poor service due to mandatory tips, I have never supported that theory and Dizserver listed all the reasons I felt that. Servers who will give you bad service will do so regardless of the mandatory tip.

While I don't disagree completely, I still do think that having the server's compensation mostly in the hands of the patron does provide a bit more incentive to do a good job. I don't think restaurant managers in this country are trained to monitor and assure service quality very well -- the gratuity system has policed that for them all these years.

 

[TLSnell1981]

As far as I know, that thread was closed ONLY because the Moderators are trying to keep all discussion of this change in one thread.

For the record, I do not believe Disney lost any money during any Free Dining promotion. The DDP tip change merely keeps MORE of Disney's money in Disney's pocket.

I understand why it was closed...I was just trying to highlight a different view without going though a million pages.

How can you not lose money if you are giving away food and paying all the overhead, including a gratuity? Somebody..somewhere is going to pay for this....

 

[bicker]

No, the servers did NOT 'allow' the union to negotiate this contract, but they are vastly outnumbered by non-food service Cast Members - to whom the tipping issue did not matter. And Disney wasn't "lame enough" to "accept" these conditions - Disney SET them.

Sorry, but I don't buy this at all. People need to start taking responsibility for their own actions, including being a member of a union. The union and Disney agreed to this condition -- they and all of the union membership and Disney management bear equal responsibility for it. TLSnell1981 said it well...

The servers allowed the union to contract this...it's not just Disney this message needs to get to.

If there is a message to be gotten, it needs to be one that all sides can internalize and live with.

 

[bicker]

New automated WDW Communications response:
"Thank you for contacting Walt Disney World. In response to your e-mail - Because we said so. Period. Now stop bothering us."

It seems funny, but sometimes we know that Disney CMs would have been better off saying something like that than providing an answer that was something they thought the guests wanted to hear. Often such explanations mislead the guest into fostering an expectation that is patently unfounded. The reality is that, very often, the cold hard truth isn't suitable for sharing with guests. I strongly suggest that, in such cases, service providers (politely) find a way to say pretty-much what you've indicated above -- perhaps just reiterate the "what"explanation without granting that the "why" part of the inquiry even exists. That fits well with the maxim, "If you have nothing good to say, say nothing at all."

 

[fatcat04]

Right. I was responding to your statement So, if your December 2007 trip extends into 2008, then, yes, you will be able to see and track the new policy. If this trip is entirely in 2007, you won't. That's ALL I was saying.

Goodness.. well if you want to split hairs. I am going to just make a mental note if ANYONE should ask if I am a member of a "dining discount plan" prior to my meal, whether it be greeter or server and at which restaurants. I figure if the policy is going into effect a couple weeks after we get there then they might already start doing it.

Otherwise, I will see when we go in May of 08 or how about Sept and Oct of 08 or how about Dec of 08. Does that suit you?? Good grief!!

 

[Pumbaa_]

I want to remind everyone this is NOT the debate board. I think many need to step away from this thread. You have stated your positions clearly and are now just beating a dead horse (i need that smiley!)

So let's stop 'correcting' others comments and opinions. Everyone is entitled to them and have the right to not have to debate their point. If you want to 'correct' someone's opinion, please don't!

Thank you,

 

[fatcat04]

You have stated your positions clearly and are now just beating a dead horse (i need that smiley!)

The "beating the dead horse" smiley is one of my personal favorites

There is also one where they not only beat the dead horse but set it on fire... for those extra special threads.

 

[daisyduck123]

When DH learned about the 18% gratuity policy he said, "Well, that will SAVE us money because we've always tipped 20%!"

He's right.

So I voted, "I DON'T CARE".

 

[Mackey Mouse]

"My rant is on principle...not saving a few bucks."

I agree and my rants were on principle too....this now, what next?
__________________

 

[bicker]

this now, what next?

That's a reasonable question. I hope folks aren't too disappointed with the eventual answer. Just in terms of restaurants, I could imagine eventually seeing sharing fees or restrictions, or minimum (per seat) charges.