Beginning in January - 18% Gratuity....

[marivaid]

Tipping in the US is, by recent case law, totally at the diner's discretion. That's about as far away from "mandatory" as you can get. Agreed. But calling it "mandatory" or anything close to it is incorrect.

David

Fine, let me rephrase. It's very close to being mandatory if you intend to ever show your face again in that restaurant and don't like saliva dressing.

Better?

 

[disneyfan2kids]

It is optional. But you should do it anyway.

David

I don't disagree with you. However I fear that statements such as this may be how others justify (in their own minds) not tipping AT ALL.

You know what... saying "thank you" and "you're welcome" and "please" are "optional" as well. But I prefer to think that people know what's right and wrong. Unfortunately...after this thread... I'm not too sure anymore.

 

[dqpowell]

Fine, let me rephrase. It's very close to being mandatory if you intend to ever show your face again in that restaurant and don't like saliva dressing.

Tips are earned through good service. Any wait staff who wants to lose their job and be criminally prosecuted is welcome to spit in my food.

David

 

[dqpowell]

I don't disagree with you. However I fear that statements such as this may be how others justify (in their own minds) not tipping AT ALL.

You don't encourage proper behavior by hiding the truth from people in the hopes that they'll be scared into the desired behavior. Anybody disinclined to tip properly will find a reason to do so whether they know it's optional or not.

You know what... saying "thank you" and "you're welcome" and "please" are "optional" as well. But I prefer to think that people know what's right and wrong.

That's my point entirely. You don't compel "right" behavior by tricking people into thinking the "wrong" behavior is illegal, if it isn't. You appeal to their sense of decency. "Look, technically tips aren't mandatory. But it's the right thing to do, because..."

David

 

[TLSnell1981]

Tips are earned through good service. Any wait staff who wants to lose their job and be criminally prosecuted is welcome to spit in my food.

David

Do you think you would actually know?

 

[bicker]

It is optional.

Tipping is not optional; it is discretionary.

 

[dqpowell]

Tipping is not optional; it is discretionary.

Since one of the possible outcomes of a discretionary action is no action at all, it's the same thing as saying it's optional.

discretionary
adjective
1. having or using the ability to act or decide according to your own discretion or judgment.

David

 

[mrincredible2008]

Tipping is not optional; it is discretionary.

26,968 posts.........you deserve a tip

 

[dqpowell]

Do you think you would actually know?

As much as it might tickle you to imagine somebody spitting in my food -- yes, I think I could detect spit in my food.

David

 

[Tricia1972]

Ok so if I use my DDE card on a party of 6+ I save 20% and pay an 18% gratuity, correct? So I'm saving a whopping 2%. That doesn't seem to justify my $65 i pay for the card. As long as I have parties less than 6 its a good deal but more than 6 and its a rip off. Am I looking at this correctly?

You would stand to save MORE with the DDE than without it in your example.

Beginning in 2008 you will be paying an 18% gratuity for ALL parties of 6 or more. With the DDE you can take 20% off of that.

You would also save with a party of 1-5 on the DDE. Assume you have a DDE card and a party of 4 for the following example.

Dinner without the DDE
$100.00 - Food Cost
$6.50 - Tax
$15.00 - Gratuity (assuming you have average service and tip the 15% standard)
$121.50 - Total Bill


Dinner with the DDE
$100.00 - Food Cost
$6.50 - Tip
$18.00 - Gratuity (18% - which is new DDE procedure)
-$20.00 - DDE Discount
$104.50 - Total Bill


Looks to me like you are saving a minimum of $17.00. Before you eat 4 $100.00 TS meals you've paid for the cost of your card.

 

[apostolic4life]

.....thought they would be a good way to add my two cents in here!

The simple fact remains that most people do tip based on the level of service received and if you do a good job you will be rewarded for the quality of that service (yes, there are cheap people who do not tip correctly or even at all). Yes, you do depend on those tips to live, but I bet most anyone could live on making between $18-$54 per hour (based on the reasonable math from my earlier post) as an average. If you are good at your job you will make the money you want even if some people refuse to tip or tip poorly. My argument is not with the practice of tipping, my argument is based on the "woe is me because I work so hard I 'deserve' a great tip" mentality so many servers exhibit nowadays. Everyone in the restaurant business works hard, and servers do not have the hardest job in the restaurant; go ask the dishwasher who's job is hardest. Tips should always be based on the quality of service rendered because that is what is fair. To institute a mandatory tip will allow servers to due subpar work for great reward.....this is not good for the bottom line of the restaurant since many people who are given bad service will not come back based on the poor service received.

Actually I think the main point of contention here has been the fact of limited recourse for bad service. Few people here have had problems with leaving fair tips for service rendered, but being forced to tip a server at a higher percentage when service seems to be lacking is the problem. Tips are given based on how well a job is performed.....yes, they are part of the server's wage, so the server needs to perform to high standards to expect higher tip percentages. Requiring customers to pay 18% for service (good or bad) makes it more of a surcharge not a gratuity. Servers will not feel overwhelmed to provide the same great service if they know the tip is guaranteed to be 18%. It's not rocket science here.......human nature dictates many of us will do as little as possible if we know our wages or job security will not be affected.

Again, I must address the idea of level of service. It seems so many want us to believe a higher percentage of tip should be given no matter how good or how bad the service is. One tip does not fit all. Sure all servers will argue for the mandatory tip since they will benefit from it, but if you dare say they need to provide the proper level of service to receive that tip they cite all the things they do (woe is me, my job requires me to work hard) as a part of their job. If the bad parts of the job are so terrible you should find other employment. If servers got paid a higher base wage would this stop the complaining.....probably not because servers have adopted the mentality in today's world that the guest is required to leave a 20% tip no matter the quality of service. Remember, we are in a "service" industry and we are expected to give service to the guest. Servers who do not grasp the concept of "the guest is the important person here" will always be unhappy and receive lower tips.

As for the concept of a busy server vs. bad server, I understand the difference and we always let a server know we are there to have a nice leisurely dinner and we are in no rush. This usually allows the server a little wiggle room if she/he is busy. When a guest works with a busy server it usually is mutually beneficial to both parties. I do agree with the idea mentioned how too many people expect to be the only guest in the server's area and everyone else be darned; this is just poor manners on the part of the guest. This person is typically the guest looking for every possible reason not to leave a tip too.......go figure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CoPirate
Dont like tipping what your supposed to, even though your server might have been a little less than par? Then dont go out. Unless you watched the server stand around and do nothing (and ive seen it once, at steak and shake), they were working. Everyone has bad days at work, and when I come into my office and mess things up, they dont dock my pay cuz i had a bad day.

Don't like having to work for your tip, then get a different job! I do not care what kind of day you have, do not bring it to the customer.....they should not have to deal with your personal garbage. Yes, people should plan on a tip if they are going out to dinner, but they should tip based on the quality of service given, they should not tip based on a false idea of "you owe me this much since you came to my table". I do not often see servers standing around in my establishments, they are too busy serving the customer since that is the job they are hired to do.....oh yeah, that service to the customer also increases their tips (imagine that). No, if you have a job that is not based on tip generation you will not lose money for having a bad day, but if you do work for tips and allow yourself to give poor service it will affect your income. Again, if the bad out-weighs the good, change your profession.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CoPirate
Sit down and think about it. You can go to your local supermarket and probably eat a weeks worth of the one meal you order. $30 for a single steak. $50 for a bottle of wine. etc etc. You're paying for a company to buy the product in bulk, paying for the staff to prep and cook it, paying for it to be served and for the company to make a profit off of that. If you're unhappy with what that costs, then stay home and do it yourself. Nothing will go wrong, and everything will be to your liking.

Yes, I can go home and feed my family for a fraction of the cost of a night out in a fine restaurant, but I go out so I can be served. I will always pay for what I receive when I go out to a restaurant, but I will not be told I have to pay for something I did not receive. If you work hard for the customer you will make a decent wage (no, not everyone will tip appropriately, but many will). Working as a server can be very lucrative, but it will never generate a consistent high wage. If you don't like the rate of pay received for the level of service you are willing to provide, you too can stay home.....or get a different job!

 

[apostolic4life]

Quote:
Originally Posted by melomouse
If service is sufficiently bad as to warrant less than 18%, the recourse will be to speak with a manager, which should be done anyway. I just don't believe that everyone's concerned about tips being related to service going down. I think some people are worried they are absolutely no longer going to get away with cheaping out on tips.
You play, you pay. I was always taught that if you can't afford the tip, you can't afford to go out to dinner.



I do not think getting a manager over to the table is going to be realistic at a WDW restaurant. We have always had very good service at most on-site venues, but the one time we had really bad service we waited for a manager for 20+ minutes before we left without ever seeing the manager. They are often busy doing their normal jobs so if they are trying to field multiple diners requests to get the mandatory tip reduced due to bad service, I would bet they will not be able to see every guest with a problem.


With the volume of customers going through the WDW restaurants, I would bet most servers will do very well for themselves mandatory tip or not (even with the cheap-skates who don't tip or tip very little).

Quote:
Originally Posted by CoPirate
In the system we have set up you assume you are going to get good service. Not amazing service. Not bad service. Good Service. So assuming you get good service, you should be tipping the standard percent. Which is 18%.
But people dont. They tip 10%. Maaaaybe 12%. If you're lucky? 15%.


You have backed up exactly what I have said. Servers no longer want to work for their tips, they feel entitled to large tips because you dare walk into the restaurant where they happen to work. 18% is not the standard for good service it is the middle ground of tipping guidlines.......20% has always been the high end mark for average/good service and 15% has been the low end for average service. More is awarded for exceptional service. But as I have said, the idea of a mandatory tip does not allow the diner to adjust the tip for poor/good/exceptional service without the hassle of fetching a manager to make the adjustment. If your average tip is 10-12% I would rethink my profession.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CoPirate
Has that happened to you at Disney? Because thats what we're talking about. Disney World. Service at Disneyworld and possibly adding 18% onto that. Not at Cheddars, or Chilis, or Red Lobster, where my order has also been screwed up.

Now, that aside. Wow.

And you're going off on a tangent over nothing, if youve been ignored at a Disney restaurant, then I apologize for what I said. But like I said, its never happened to me. Disney service is always attentive and Im always amazed that their servers are busy but never look 'in the weeds'.

I also find it hard to believe that you wouldnt expect people to tip your DH. Especially after gas, and to keep his car maintained. Dont drivers makes minumim wage? Which here in FL is around $6.20.

IMO your viewpoint is whats wrong with the industry. People dont feel they should have to tip, they feel I should be thanking them for coming in and eating. Which I do, because I appreciate when people get it. But again, being a server is not a slave.

Id love for servers to band together and go on strike. People would sure be ok tipping a measly 18% on their meal if they didnt have the option to go out anymore.

Measly 18%, what is wrong with you. If 18% is now considered a measly tip we are in real trouble. Just out of curiosity, how big does the tip need to be and what exactly should the guest expect from you for it??? There is a huge group of people entering the work force over the last few years who feel everyone owes them something for nothing in return. Has the idea of work hard for a fair days wage gone by the wayside??? Go ahead and unionize, because when you go out on strike (and are earning nothing) I will still have a staff of happy loyal employees working for me (and earning money), who understand the basic concept of the customer service industry: Serve the customer's (internal & external) needs first, treat my customers (internal & external) with respect, and have an "attitude of gratitude"!!!! Pretty simple really.

My rant is now over!

Quote:
Originally Posted by CoPirate
I meant a measly 18%, as in $10 as opposed to $5. Or whatever. What always confused me is when people would give you like $9.00. or 4 dollars. 1 more dollar? please? Im not worth just 1 more to keep things easy?


look, i dont mean to come off as some griping server who just expects 20% no matter what. When I was serving I did it because I enjoyed the fast paced environment. I liked the easy money, and never paid too much attention to how much I was making as a whole, just as a personal sociology experiment on the people of Orlando and then St. Petersburg. I found that as a majority people are cheap. So I busted my butt to try to show people that good service was possible, but it just rarely made a difference. I ended up quitting because they were keeping me till 2am scrubbing a drain with a toothbrush when I had to be at my day job at 8 the next morning. - Not cool.

Im glad you own a restaurant, have it all figured out and are king of the world. Your servers are making money and are happy. great. You're a small percentage of the entire restaurant industry tho. And many servers have come to my defense on here. So I guess agree to disagree.

No, I do not have it all figured out and I am not king of the world, but I have worked hard in the restaurant industry to become successful. I do not come into this with a singular experience; I have worked my way through the industry to get to a point where I look objectively at these things and base my arguments on a broad experience not a narrow "sociology experiment". My money would be wagered on the fact if you had a broader experience in the industry you could see the concept I am offering a little clearer. As you said, you saw the job as "easy money", and I hate to say it, so do most other servers. If you hold them accountable for a certain level of service and expect them to do more than wait on customers they think they are so underpaid and abused (now the thing with the drain was just rude and demeaning and should not have happened, I specifically hire people to do those things). I would agree most servers would come to your defense on this issue because it would be to their benefit to get that guaranteed 18% tip even if they give sub-par service, right?!?!?! I do not think agreeing to disagree is how I would bookend a viewpoint I felt so strongly about.

I hope these posts help let everyone understand my views on this subject. I am not against tipping (most servers do work hard for the tips they get and deserve), but I am against taking the discretion away for the customer (even though some may not tip at all or tip poorly). Mandating a tip makes it a service charge not a gratuity.

 

[toothdoc]

Originally Posted by DisneyKevin
According to Disney, the above is incorrect.

This new 18% gratuity will be across the board. It will be added to each and every check at all Disney restuarants regardless of party size or whether you are using a DDE card or not.

This will not include counter service restaurants or carts.

This information comes directly from the folks at the Disney Dining Experience and Guest Relations.



Let's go back to page 1 and Kevin's comments. It is 18% across the board. Therefore I ask once again if I know I am getting 18% from everyone I wait on (irregardless of dining plan or DDE) then what is my incentive to do a good job. The "Me" generation of kids now waiting on us for the most part does not have the same work ethic or drive as their elders. I do NOT mind paying gratuity when it has been earned, and under the dining plan have tipped on top of the 18%. We had a great waiter at Breakfastosaurus and another one at Liberty Tree Tavern. They deserved the extra gratuity we gave. However, we have also had terrible service, while I am not one to leave a $1 tip, I feel 10% is resonable. Either a person will wake up and do better in the future or they do not have the right work ethic. Also the waiters who earned extra tips where seasoned veterans who had been at ths for a long time. Making my first point about the "Me" generation.

 

[kaytieeldr]

26,968 posts.........you deserve a tip

But for content, not for volume!

 

[kaytieeldr]

Let's go back to page 1 and Kevin's comments. It is 18% across the board

But you also need to look at the DATE of Kevin's comments - last Friday, the day the original e-mail was sent, to DDE members ONLY (and in case anybody's looking for the referenced comments, they're in a different thread on the same topic).

The clarification e-mail sent the next day, as well, as posts from at least one Cast Member, and several DISers who have WDW contacts, state that the 18% whatever-you-want-to-call-it applies to DDE members using the DDE discount at table service restaurants property-wide.

You therefore do NOT know from whom you're getting the automatic service fee, unless the party consists of at least six people.

 

[bicker]

Since one of the possible outcomes of a discretionary action is no action at all, it's the same thing as saying it's optional.

It isn't though. "Optional" implies that not providing a tip, even though service was provided, as just a decision based on personal preference, is legitimate. That is not the case. "Discretionary" implies that sound judgment needs to be applied -- i.e., that the decision must be based on a defensible logical or moral position.

 

[bicker]

I hope these posts help let everyone understand my views on this subject. I am not against tipping (most servers do work hard for the tips they get and deserve), but I am against taking the discretion away for the customer (even though some may not tip at all or tip poorly). Mandating a tip makes it a service charge not a gratuity.

You took up all that space just to express a concern about the words used? Well, in case you did, let me say that I feel that that's really missing the point of the discussion. What they call it should be considered nothing more than a quibble. If anyone (not you, of course) is deriving any significant angst from the fact that they don't call it what you want them to call it, then I think you need to take a step back and reevaluate the priority you're placing on something which is relatively inconsequential.

To be clear about what I'm saying: If you're really opposed to the gratuity being mandatory because you want the power to apply your discretion to the amount, that's a completely different story. That's not only something I consider a substantial issue, but a perspective I happen to agree with. I'm just making the distinction between that and not liking the label. (And I wouldn't have said anything if the point hadn't be driven home by seventeen column-inches.)

 

[bicker]

But for content, not for volume!

I can be very loud, when necessary!

Actually, it is deserved strictly on finesse.

 

[smjj]

I guess I am probably in the minority here but I don't like the flat 18% for a different reason. I like the option of tipping based on the service I get not the size of the bill. I try and tip about 15 to 18% but on the rare occasion we spend a lot I do cut back. I just don't think it takes any more effort to place a $30.00 steak in front of me than a $10.00 hamburger with fries. The difference is quite a bit for the same effort. Just my opinion. I also prefer to leave a cash tip. My son worked at a local restaurant and always preferred cash tips. You can guess why so I usually just cash the tip and let them decide how much to report...smjj

 

[CanadianGuy]

Originally Posted by DisneyKevin
According to Disney, the above is incorrect.

This new 18% gratuity will be across the board. It will be added to each and every check at all Disney restuarants regardless of party size or whether you are using a DDE card or not.

This will not include counter service restaurants or carts.

This information comes directly from the folks at the Disney Dining Experience and Guest Relations.



Let's go back to page 1 and Kevin's comments. It is 18% across the board. Therefore I ask once again if I know I am getting 18% from everyone I wait on (irregardless of dining plan or DDE) then what is my incentive to do a good job. The "Me" generation of kids now waiting on us for the most part does not have the same work ethic or drive as their elders. I do NOT mind paying gratuity when it has been earned, and under the dining plan have tipped on top of the 18%. We had a great waiter at Breakfastosaurus and another one at Liberty Tree Tavern. They deserved the extra gratuity we gave. However, we have also had terrible service, while I am not one to leave a $1 tip, I feel 10% is resonable. Either a person will wake up and do better in the future or they do not have the right work ethic. Also the waiters who earned extra tips where seasoned veterans who had been at ths for a long time. Making my first point about the "Me" generation.

The post you're quoting from Kevin is outdated. The correct information is as noted in katie's posts.. DDE transactions and parties of 6 or more are subject to the autogratuity.

DDP, and cash customers with parties of 5 or less are not affected.

Knox