Baby on lap

[dzorn]

I prefer my child not be an air bag or flying projectile in case of turbulance.

Denise in MI

 

[NotUrsula]

...

Technically our stage 1 seats could be secured with a lap belt by going through the 2 side clips but all the ones I've owned have had a third anchor point at the back of where the head is and we've always been advised to secure using a 3 point, so always have (first was born 1997, last was born 2010- DH did remind me though the seat we were given, but never used, with our first in 1997 was a secure with lap belt only one but we were able to buy a new one before she actually arrived so it never got used)

So technically you could secure it by lap belt only but we're strongly advised only to do that as a complete and utter last resort if no other belts are available in the car, we're fortunate though that all the cars my kids travel in have enough 3 point belts.

Just checked the UK Britax site and it says... " A rearward facing infant carrier must only be used with a 3-point belt. The same applies to boosters (also in combination with a backrest). For the installation with a 2-point lap belt the ECLIPSE and the PRINCE are suitable. They allow your child (or one of your children) weighing between 9 and 18 kg to be transported safely and comfortably in the centre position of the rear seat, even if it is only equipped with a 2-point lap belt."
...

Isn't it no wonder no one knows what set of rules to follow when it seems like every country, or even different parts of the same country, seem to have so many varying rules than seem to change every few years

Just FYI, in most American cars, the 3-point belt in a rear seat is not long enough to wrap around the back of a rear-facing toddler (stage 1) seat. That issue surprises a lot of UK folks who hire cars here.

Also, because in the US we like to build our roads with crossed intersections whilst the UK prefers roundabouts, the recommendation for seat placement here is to put a single carseat in the center of the rear seat if you can.

 

[mommy-on-the-move]

Thanks Notursula, that does make alot of sense, I know here carseats in all cars made after a certain date are a universal length (or greater) and in theory fit around all modern carseats (In theory- I've known a few that don't even though on paper they should)

My kids were absolutely fascinated driving through Fl. that we saw no roundabouts- our hometown is actually quite famous in England for having a stupidly high number of roundabouts so it seemed really odd for them LOL

Car makers like Ford here tell us to try and avoid the centre seat for carseats, especially infant ones but I can definitely see why it'd be the safer seat in a road system where the bigger risk was side impact crashes from cross sections.

 

[Zeebs]

Thanks Notursula, that does make alot of sense, I know here carseats in all cars made after a certain date are a universal length (or greater) and in theory fit around all modern carseats (In theory- I've known a few that don't even though on paper they should)

My kids were absolutely fascinated driving through Fl. that we saw no roundabouts- our hometown is actually quite famous in England for having a stupidly high number of roundabouts so it seemed really odd for them LOL

Car makers like Ford here tell us to try and avoid the centre seat for carseats, especially infant ones but I can definitely see why it'd be the safer seat in a road system where the bigger risk was side impact crashes from cross sections.

Gee I wonder what town you are from

We didn't have any problems with putting our carseats in our rental cars, we have a britax 9 month to 4 size and one from Argos - a booster called moovy, and a Britax rear facing . Fingers crossed with don't have any issues this trip.

Kirsten

 

[mommy-on-the-move]

yep Zeebs- the one with the calendar! Learning to drive here was not fun! I absolutely hate driving around islands and have no way of leaving our home by car without hitting at least 2 major ones before getting onto a main road... nightmare!

 

[ksl5f123]

I didn't see this mentioned anywhere: If you buy a seat for your child and you have a carseat, the child MUST be in it during takeoff, turbulance, and landing.

This led to my worst flight ever. When we took off, the pressure changes caused severe ear pain for my DS. As an infant, he was EBF (no bottles or pacifiers). There was no way for me to BF him while we were both strapped in our seats. Unfortunately, we took off into bad weather and the seatbelt sign was on for the first 45 minutes. He SCREAMED the entire time. So, while he was safer in his carseat, if looks could kill "I" wouldn't have survived that flight.

 

[AZMermaid]

The worst flight I have ever been on was when we were coming back from WDW with a probably 23 month old lap child behind us. She was miserable. Mom was miserable. We were miserable. She cried and squirmed and kicked the back of my seat the whole time (3+ hours). Her mom sang her this really annoying song over and over and over again. Her sister was saying "Sissy, Sissy, what's wrong Sissy?" for hours. At that moment I decided I would always buy my child a seat!

Another flight I was on (actually my son's first flight at 3 months old- yes, he had a seat) there was a "lap child" a few rows behind us. The FA questioned the girl's age but mom said she was under 2 (this was US Airways, they don't require birth certificate). Mom camped her out on the seat next to her and was super huffy and annoyed when someone had a ticket for that seat. I couldn't really see the child so I didn't think much of it, except for that she was a pretty good talker for under 2, but some kids are. Well, when we got off, I saw why the FA questioned it, she was as tall as my waist. There is NO way she was under 2, probably more like 4. People are nuts. We say "If you can't afford it buy your baby a seat, you can't afford your vacation." The FAA and AAP have been asking the airlines for years to do away with the free lap child policy. I wish they would.

 

[jpeka65844]

My kids were absolutely fascinated driving through Fl. that we saw no roundabouts- our hometown is actually quite famous in England for having a stupidly high number of roundabouts so it seemed really odd for them LOL

My town here in the US has a lot of roundabouts. When I first visited this town for a job interview before I moved, I'd never seen one before.

When getting directions from my future boss over the phone, he mentioned "go through the roundabout" and I was like...."Go through the WHAT?" He had to explain what a roundabout was.....Thankfully he hired me anyway....

 

[lost*in*cyberspace]

this was US Airways, they don't require birth certificate

http://www.usairways.com/en-EU/travel_information/children/infants_children.html

US Airways defines an infant as a child less than 2 years (24 months) of age. Infants less than 2 years of age must be accompanied on all flights and in the same compartment with an adult at least 18 years of age. We recommend that you travel with a birth certificate for children between the ages of 1 and 2.

 

[AZMermaid]

http://www.usairways.com/en-EU/travel_information/children/infants_children.html

US Airways defines an infant as a child less than 2 years (24 months) of age. Infants less than 2 years of age must be accompanied on all flights and in the same compartment with an adult at least 18 years of age. We recommend that you travel with a birth certificate for children between the ages of 1 and 2.

Hmmmm.... well it says recommend. I know they did not ask this mom for one (at least the FA didn't, I suppose they could have at check in, except most people check in online.) The mom sort of pretended not to speak much English when the FA was questioning her on the child's age, but spoke much better English to the child when they were talking to each other on the flight. I went to the restroom mid flight and I saw the child in the lap and mom did look pretty miserable- so if she was truly over 2 (which I highly suspect she was since she was as tall as my waist- she stood next to me when we all waited for our strollers at gate check) Mom may rethink it for next time. She really seemed annoyed that someone was in that middle seat and had the girl siting there with her blankie and all her toys when they boarded.

 

[frijolefrito]

I prefer my child not be an air bag or flying projectile in case of turbulance.

Denise in MI

I've never had trouble handling my dinner tray in turbulence so I doubt a kid that is heavier would be problem. If you are talking about mid air collisions or crashing I’d worry more about the luggage latches that can pop open easy sending tons of luggage careening through the cabin. Also the baby car seats have tons of wiggle room no matter how tight you make the seatbelt. It's the same principal as being on a bus and having no seatbelts.

The worst flight I have ever been on was when we were coming back from WDW with a probably 23 month old lap child behind us. She was miserable. Mom was miserable. We were miserable. She cried and squirmed and kicked the back of my seat the whole time (3+ hours). Her mom sang her this really annoying song over and over and over again. Her sister was saying "Sissy, Sissy, what's wrong Sissy?" for hours. At that moment I decided I would always buy my child a seat!

Another flight I was on (actually my son's first flight at 3 months old- yes, he had a seat) there was a "lap child" a few rows behind us. The FA questioned the girl's age but mom said she was under 2 (this was US Airways, they don't require birth certificate). Mom camped her out on the seat next to her and was super huffy and annoyed when someone had a ticket for that seat. I couldn't really see the child so I didn't think much of it, except for that she was a pretty good talker for under 2, but some kids are. Well, when we got off, I saw why the FA questioned it, she was as tall as my waist. There is NO way she was under 2, probably more like 4. People are nuts. We say "If you can't afford it buy your baby a seat, you can't afford your vacation." The FAA and AAP have been asking the airlines for years to do away with the free lap child policy. I wish they would.

Kids whose parents can't get them under control is bad parenting not seating arrangements. In a car seat or not you take the kid to the back of the plane by the bathroom and you rock her or whatever back there. When a kid gets an ear infection sometimes it can't be helped. They are going to cry and fuss the whole time. This still has nothing to do with the seating arrangements. I've never had problems with kids on the lap and in my case it saves me 1000 dollars. So far all I've heard about is bad parenting and fictional lost reenactments.

 

[AZMermaid]

Kids whose parents can't get them under control is bad parenting not seating arrangements. In a car seat or not you take the kid to the back of the plane by the bathroom and you rock her or whatever back there. When a kid gets an ear infection sometimes it can't be helped. They are going to cry and fuss the whole time. This still has nothing to do with the seating arrangements. I've never had problems with kids on the lap and in my case it saves me 1000 dollars. So far all I've heard about is bad parenting and fictional lost reenactments.

They tried. They walked her for a while until the FA made them sit down. These parents tried everything. I have been on flights when the parents didn't really seem to care. These ones did and they tried everything. She was just too big to be on a lap. Now, maybe they should have known they have a squirmer who would not be happy on Mom's lap for 3+ hours, or maybe they had done a trip when she was younger and it was fine, but at almost 2, this kid was not happy. One day, the airlines will decide to listen to the FAA and the AAP who both say it is unsafe for children to fly on laps, but until then, we will have to deal with it. I still stand by if you can't afford the seat, drive or stay home. We are buying our then 11 month old a seat for the 45-60 minute flight to Long Beach in Sept, if we couldn't afford it, we would drive.

 

[AZMermaid]

Kids whose parents can't get them under control is bad parenting not seating arrangements.

BTW- my son had extreme colic. He cried for 5-7 hours straight from 3-13 weeks. There was nothing I could do for him. Nothing. I would not say I was a bad parent because I could not control his screaming. I can gurantee if he would have been on my lap for our 2 hour flight to San Jose at 11 weeks, he would have screamed. By buying him a seat, he was used to his car seat (there and at swim lessons was the only reliable place he wouldn't scream). He didn't make a peep either way. He screamed in the terminal for about 30 minutes, but was fine on the plane.

 

[frijolefrito]

You didn’t mention anything about kids being colic. I can see how the car seat is beneficial in those situations. My first 2 were born mad at the world and let us know it! For us it was the same the bath and the car seat. Luckily for us the phase passed very quickly. If you know a car seat calms your kid and you don't bring/use it yup still bad parenting. If your kid cries his head off the whole trip and you can't do anything about it? That's life and not bad parenting.

My 4th will be one in July and she has always been good. She’ll chill with you on your lap and behave like a little angel. If she gets fussy she just needs a toy or the regular baby 3 (food, diaper change, or burp). It's all about knowing your kid.

People are making it out to be like you are dumb for putting a kid on your lap and I think that is hooey. I can afford the seat but chose not too.

I still think you are a good person tho even though I disagree.

 

[LaurenLC]

I prefer my child not be an air bag or flying projectile in case of turbulance.

Denise in MI

I think you can get your point across without going there.

 

[mom23kids]

Hmmmm.... well it says recommend. I know they did not ask this mom for one (at least the FA didn't, I suppose they could have at check in, except most people check in online.) The mom sort of pretended not to speak much English when the FA was questioning her on the child's age, but spoke much better English to the child when they were talking to each other on the flight. I went to the restroom mid flight and I saw the child in the lap and mom did look pretty miserable- so if she was truly over 2 (which I highly suspect she was since she was as tall as my waist- she stood next to me when we all waited for our strollers at gate check) Mom may rethink it for next time. She really seemed annoyed that someone was in that middle seat and had the girl siting there with her blankie and all her toys when they boarded.

My dd is 2 and is 40 inches!!! So it is possible the little girl was 2 but just tall......

 

[tlbwriter]

I've never had trouble handling my dinner tray in turbulence so I doubt a kid that is heavier would be problem.

Interesting grasp on physics you have there...

 

[DopeyDame]

Interesting grasp on physics you have there...

Yup! It would be funny if it weren't sad. (Hint: F=ma - your kid has far more mass than your tray table)

 

[frijolefrito]

So get 2 plastic bags and fill them with rice or something like that. Make it so the difference in mass of the bags is the same as ooo, lets’ say a baby and a tray of food. Okay now grab a baking pan or a tray or some sort of stable platform. Now go outside put both bags on the tray, hold it with both hands (one on each edge) and start running. Your natural running motion is going to cause the tray to go up and down. Let me know what one moves more? That is what I mean. Not Pick up the bags and throw em at your face and figure out what one hurts more. That is NOT what I'm talking about.

If I'm still wrong well than I apologize for my retardation.

 

[justhat]

So get 2 plastic bags and fill them with rice or something like that. Make it so the difference in mass of the bags is the same as ooo, lets’ say a baby and a tray of food. Okay now grab a baking pan or a tray or some sort of stable platform. Now go outside put both bags on the tray, hold it with both hands (one on each edge) and start running. Your natural running motion is going to cause the tray to go up and down. Let me know what one moves more? That is what I mean. Not Pick up the bags and throw em at your face and figure out what one hurts more. That is NOT what I'm talking about.

That makes no sense. A better test would be to hold objects in the car and have the driver make sudden turns/stops without your knowledge. See what you can hold onto better, a sandwich, or a 25lbs sack.