Baby #19 for the Duggars born!

[1957]

Why would someone have to be officially ordained, and who cares where they meet. I'm pretty sure that the early church didn't worry about either. You sound as judgmental as those you are complaining about.

Lisa, nice posts.

Because it invites any number of wannabe self-proclaimed "pastors" to just announce themselves and their "church". Jim Jones did this. So did David Koresh. Please tell me...what do you really know about the "early Church"? Sorry - I don't think you have a clue!

 

[1957]

I was thinking the same thing. Who says someone needs to be ordained?

Jim Jones and David Koresh and Warren Jeffs said the same thing!

 

[starstruck93]

You know this makes me mad. When she was popping out all those babies at a younger age she was not risking the baby's health as much as her continuing it.
I had a 1 pound baby and I know others look at it different but it is absolutely heartbreaking to see your baby in the NICU and struggling. It is cruel and selfish to keep this up when her chances of something going wrong climb.
Also, when you take home a preemie you have to be so careful so they do not get sick. We kept DD away from almost everyone the first few months she came home. We also basically did not leave the house so we would decrease our risk of picking something up. Good Lord! she has 18 other kids in the same house.
I feel so bad for the baby in this environment. Wonder who the preemie will get passed off to or which other kids get neglected becasue of the time this one may need.
Go ahead and flame away and post what a great mom she is. I will respectfully disagree.

EXACTLY!! ITA! Don't even get me started on this family! LOL!

 

[1957]

Not sure. Given where 1957 is coming from, it is easy to see where he/she and I (given where I'm coming from) put great emphasis on something like seminary. All the pastors I have known personally from Christian denominations did go to seminary, or got their college degree in some kind of Bible study.

I don't know if there is a formal process in other denominations. I do know that all the pastors I have known typically went to school for it somewhere along the way versus just one day picking up a Bible and calling themselves a pastor or minister.

But I could see how 1957's concern would be over what someone who calls themself a pastor has in way of qualifications. I have never been clear if Mr. Duggar is one or not.

Exactly! Being officially ordained is a very long (educationally) way from being self-proclaimed. I don't think Jim Bob ever declared himself to be an official "pastor", although he does hold worship services in his home. Don't know, though. The advent of "on-line" ordinations is a total joke. All of my Pastors have had at least an MA.

 

[snarlingcoyote]

Exactly! Being officially ordained is a very long (educationally) way from being self-proclaimed. I don't think Jim Bob ever declared himself to be an official "pastor", although he does hold worship services in his home. Don't know, though. The advent of "on-line" ordinations is a total joke. All of my Pastors have had at least an MA.

My father is a minister with an MA. You cannot compare the education required for that to someone who decides to preach and gets his information from Google searches.

 

[snarlingcoyote]

Okay, I have and have had 2 big questions:

1. Recent research seems to suggest that the odds of having a gay son go up with every boy child that is born to a mother. This means. . .yeah, what you'd think it means. What wil Momma and Poppa Duggar do if Son #10 or so decides he isn't interested in girls?

2. With 19 kids, the odds of at least one kid breaking free from the pack and writing a tell-all book is pretty good. I wonder which kid, and how soon, and what sekrits will be revealed?

 

[starstruck93]

Okay, I have and have had 2 big questions:

1. Recent research seems to suggest that the odds of having a gay son go up with every boy child that is born to a mother. This means. . .yeah, what you'd think it means. What wil Momma and Poppa Duggar do if Son #10 or so decides he isn't interested in girls?

2. With 19 kids, the odds of at least one kid breaking free from the pack and writing a tell-all book is pretty good. I wonder which kid, and how soon, and what sekrits will be revealed?

Easy.... Jinger will break free and write the book! LOL!

 

[Indiana Rose Lee]

Because it invites any number of wannabe self-proclaimed "pastors" to just announce themselves and their "church". Jim Jones did this. So did David Koresh. Please tell me...what do you really know about the "early Church"? Sorry - I don't think you have a clue!

Actually, I know a great deal about the early church. Thanks for asking! It sure as heck wasn't run by ordained ministers...

Jim Jones? Talk about extremes. You are right, anyone can call themselves a minister. A bit of paperwork, and you can do marriages. You can go to seminary, and still wind up assaulting alter boys. That doens't make that the standard, either.

There is nothing that makes a building special. Or a set of classes. The church is not about the politics, the facility. The power struggles are what have caused the prejudice, the wars, the reputation the church has in the eyes of non members. It is about the people.

As far as the Duggar's go, I believe there is just one bit of their home that is considered the church. The area with the industrial kitchen, rather than their home kitchen. You can't write off an entire home for a home church. Check the tax laws. Just like you can't write off your home as an office just because you run your business there. Or just believe what you like. You seem happier with that than with facts.

You use the same judgmental attitudes you blame on others. Is that something the Lutheran's teach, or did you come up with it on your own? I guess that I could take your attititude and assume that all Lutheran's are like that. But you know what they say about assuming.

 

[Indiana Rose Lee]

My father is a minister with an MA. You cannot compare the education required for that to someone who decides to preach and gets his information from Google searches.

Google searches? where do you get that? Many of the most profound speakers, ministers and pastors through history were self taught. That is undeniable. You can go to school until the cows come home and that doesn't say anything except that you are well educated. I have worked with Jesuits, some of the most educated people in ministry who still deal with a crisis of faith. And I've worked with country boys who grow up in the word, and can go someone who has lost a son to the war, comfort them, help feed their family and teach their grandson to ride a bike. I've also worked with gang members who have a moment in clarity, and God comes upon them like He did to Paul. They are called to work with the homeless, the hungry and the boys that are heading in the same direction that almost led them to prison, and death. Really I'd rather be involved with passionate than the educated. but some feel safer with teh less personal, antiseptic sort of religion.

Everyone has their own calling in life. Who are you to say that yours is the only correct one?

 

[Indiana Rose Lee]

Okay, I have and have had 2 big questions:

1. Recent research seems to suggest that the odds of having a gay son go up with every boy child that is born to a mother. This means. . .yeah, what you'd think it means. What wil Momma and Poppa Duggar do if Son #10 or so decides he isn't interested in girls?

They will probably deal with it like most folk. Even Cher, one of the most liberal gals around, had a difficult time learning that her daughter was a lesbian. Our pastor's family had a son come out this fall. That doesn't make him less loved, less a part of our church family.

 

[1957]

Actually, I know a great deal about the early church. Thanks for asking! It sure as heck wasn't run by ordained ministers...

Jim Jones? Talk about extremes. You are right, anyone can call themselves a minister. A bit of paperwork, and you can do marriages. You can go to seminary, and still wind up assaulting alter boys. That doens't make that the standard, either.

There is nothing that makes a building special. Or a set of classes. The church is not about the politics, the facility. The power struggles are what have caused the prejudice, the wars, the reputation the church has in the eyes of non members. It is about the people.

As far as the Duggar's go, I believe there is just one bit of their home that is considered the church. The area with the industrial kitchen, rather than their home kitchen. You can't write off an entire home for a home church. Check the tax laws. Just like you can't write off your home as an office just because you run your business there. Or just believe what you like. You seem happier with that than with facts.

You use the same judgmental attitudes you blame on others. Is that something the Lutheran's teach, or did you come up with it on your own? I guess that I could take your attititude and assume that all Lutheran's are like that. But you know what they say about assuming.

Ummmm - I'm not the one who brought up the Duggar tax write-off thing. In fact, I said I hadn't heard anything about it. Apology accepted. I know that Pastors/Ministers/Priests in legitimate established churches have had to attend Seminary/Divinity/or recognized college or university to obtain a
degree/s. It's also apparent that you know nothing about Martin Luther, who questioned the teachings of the Catholic Church (ever hear of the Reformation?), and created the path for the formation of the modern and long-established Protestant churches. (Lutheran, Methodist, Anglican/Episcolalian, Presbyterian, Baptist, etc). My problem is with the ultra-conservative or ultra-liberal spin-off sects that rely on a single Bible verse, or just allow anyone to be a self-proclaimed "Pastor". We just had a case near here of one of these "Pastors" being arrested for child molestation and sexual assault. Seems he was not very nice to a number of children in his Sunday School class.


Sounds like your own judgmental attitude is worse than mine!

P.S. Didn't Jesus ordain his Apostles to preach His Word? Sounds like early church to me!

 

[hentob]

They will probably deal with it like most folk.

Meh. Probably not



"The Duggars support many anti-gay groups and organizations, such as Focus on the Family, the Family Research Council, and Bob Jones University. But most discouragingly, they are strong supporters of the controversial teachings of Christian activist Bill Gothard and the staunchly anti-birth control "Quiverfull" movement (thus a big reason reason for the scores of kids). This is the same Bill Gothard tours the country speaking rabidly against people and situations he sees contrary to a good, moral life, which of course includes homosexuality."

http://www.goodasyou.org/good_as_you/2008/05/its-still-not-s.html

 

[Disney Hot Mama]

I checked in on this thread to get an up date on the baby... are there any? (Though the debates have been enjoyable I really just wanted to see how the new baby was doing)

 

[SandiH]

I checked in on this thread to get an up date on the baby... are there any? (Though the debates have been enjoyable I really just wanted to see how the new baby was doing)

An article I found stated that the family is temporarily relocating to Little Rock to be near the baby. It didn't say how the baby was doing though. As a Micro preemie, Josie has a long road ahead of her. I've had friends that have a micro preemie. It was touch and go for months but now he's a typically developing child. Another person I know has a micro preemie and that child will have medical issues for all of his life.

 

[1957]

An article I found stated that the family is temporarily relocating to Little Rock to be near the baby. It didn't say how the baby was doing though. As a Micro preemie, Josie has a long road ahead of her. I've had friends that have a micro preemie. It was touch and go for months but now he's a typically developing child. Another person I know has a micro preemie and that child will have medical issues for all of his life.

Thanks for the info., SandiH. Hope this little does well. I wonder how this unexpected turn of events will affect the family. I don't think they've been through anything like this before. As negative as I've sounded about their beliefs and practices, I do hope this baby survives and does well.

 

[gaelic grace]

P.S. Didn't Jesus ordain his Apostles to preach His Word? Sounds like early church to me![/QUOTE]

I think her point is that Jesus ordained the disciples and none of them had gone to seminary. This coming from confirmed Lutheran!

I understand what you are saying and I agree with most of your line of thinking but not the way you are applying it. I believe that ignorance abounds in many religions-as I stated I grew up Lutheran and heard plenty of misconceptions about other religions. I don't blame the Lutheran church for that I blame the ignorance of the individual.

I agree that a seminary degree is important- and many of my Southern Baptist friends would agree- many of the ministers in my area hold PhD's. What I won't do is say that you can't pastor without one- not my call, it's between them and the Father whether they are called and since the Bible is silent on seminary I'll have to assume it isn't deal breaker for God either.

I also won't assume I know the inner-workings of a family from 40 thirty minute shows a year. They started having children long before reality tv was around and they were supporting their children and living debt free long before the the first special aired. Are they reaping the benefits of the show now- absolutely. Do I want to live their lifestyle- nope, but they aren't asking me to either.