Auto Bailout Talks Collapse

Don't you think we've covered that well enough after 19 pages? No one is going to change their mind. You're either pro union or your a hater.

I am niether pro union or a hater.
I am however for the survival and viability of the Detroit auto industry.
(* Please Note: I did not say the Detroit 3.)
I am also for trying to keep our country from going into a
deep recession/depression.
 
I've googled this and there is virtually nothing about it on the internet except from MSNBC and a reference to the LA Times. A lot of blogs have junk on it too - and I mean junk. There is NO credible evidence that if this exists that it was drafted and sent by the GOP. Utter BULL. .... <SNIP>

I am not sure if the memo posted is ligit but it seems there was some kind of memo/email passed around. It was mentioned in a December 13th Free press article:


With auto rescue's collapse, new Congress to inherit grudges
BY TODD SPANGLER, JUSTIN HYDE and TIM HIGGINS • FREE PRESS STAFF WRITERS • December 13, 2008


<snip>

On Friday, Gettelfinger mentioned an e-mail that had been circulating announcing a news conference involving several Republican critics of the auto bill.

It said the senators hoped to deliver the message that this was "the Democrats first opportunity to pay off organized labor after the election" and was "a precursor to card check and other items."
<SNIP>

Link:

http://www.freep.com/article/20081213/BUSINESS01/812130353/?imw=Y
 
I've googled this and there is virtually nothing about it on the internet except from MSNBC and a reference to the LA Times. A lot of blogs have junk on it too - and I mean junk. There is NO credible evidence that if this exists that it was drafted and sent by the GOP. Utter BULL.

If true and/or meaningful it would have been all over the news. I despise this kind of reporting which is similar to all the crap reported by the conservative press about Obama. I am no fan of Obama but that stuff was unconscionable. This is no different

Is the only "news" source KO's "Countdown"?
 

If anyone is interested I found the 37 page PDF plan that GM submitted to congress on December 2,2008 concerning GM's plans for long term viability.

It is titled:
Restructuring Plan for Long Term Viability

Submitted to Senate Banking Committee& House of Representives Financial Sevices Committee

http://gmfactsandfiction.com/wp-con...estructuring-plan-for-long-term-viability.pdf

I've read some of that before. I'm disappointed that GM Management chose to be dishonest - or at least misleading in their labor cost spiel. They compare the new "new-hire" GM costs to the current "average" loaded Toyota cost. Completely dishonest. Then, they bury in the paragraph that they are relying on turnover to reduce their labor costs by having the current higher compensated union workers replaced by the new lower cost union workers. Not sure I buy that that is going to happen. Don't think the UAW would have signed on if they thought it would happen themselves really.

Lots of good stuff in the plan though.
 
Why not argue the merits of killing or not killing the UAW rather than arguing about memos and politics?

The UAW is already very weak and I think with the imminate restructuring of the of the Detroit 3 there won't be much left to kill.

JMHO
 
/
The UAW is already very weak and I think with the imminate restructuring of the of the Detroit 3 there won't be much left to kill.

JMHO

Yeah, honestly I think you are right. I think a restructured U.S. auto industry will grow again and re-create many jobs, if not more. Better to be re-sized and grow than to stay with the status-quo and disappear.
 
....Don't think the UAW would have signed on if they thought it would happen themselves really.

Lots of good stuff in the plan though.

The UAW did sign it. It was part of the 2007 concessions I posted on this thread.
That concession is one of the main reasons why I feel the UAW is very weak.
Of course without that concession and more to come the UAW is completly dead and so are the Detroit 3 auto companies.

I agree there is a lot of good stuff in the plan.

JMHO
 
Yeah, honestly I think you are right. I think a restructured U.S. auto industry will grow again and re-create many jobs, if not more. Better to be re-sized and grow than to stay with the status-quo and disappear.

I agree!
 
David Gergen and Ed Rollins had some good comments last night on CNN http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQGnuJZTe_I I am glad that bush punted this issue to President Elect Obama because certain republicans in the Senate could not do what is best for the country as opposed to what was best for the GOP. bush will indeed be known as the Hoover of our time.
 
Some one alert Dan Rather! An unsigned "GOP Memo"... Sounds like another hot memo story! It's all over the Internet and people just know it's true.

There's a couple key facts that people overlook when forwarding this particular conspiracy story:
1) The White House was FOR the deal... as were a number of GOP senators. Not exactly a united front that you'd expect for what's supposedly a party-wide effort.
2) If if the GOP wanted to run GM out of business, it wouldn't "kill" the UAW. Weaken... yes, kill... no. Even the most rabid GOP Senator wouldn't likely think that that cost/benefit ratio would be worth it.
3) It would be a long, long shot that if GM would have been forced into Chapter 11, that the UAW would be "busted" in the process. At worst a judge would have forced a new contract on the UAW.... but the UAW would still be standing to collect union dues for their political coffers. The Chapter 7 scenario, supposedly to be triggered by a lack of financing, that people in the press kept floating was nothing more than a headline attention grabber, the White House had already signaled a willingness to push for federal loan guarantees like the last time Chrysler was bailed out in 1979.

While there are probably some Senators that think incorrectly that they can use this issue as a "silver bullet" against the UAW, perhaps the answer lies in something a lot more simpler... that a larger number of GOP Senators have read the opinion polls that show that public support for a general bailout was lacking, they realized that the Wall Street bailout wasn't exactly a legislative thing of beauty, and perhaps there was another way to accomplish the goal of turning GM and Chrysler around that wouldn't tie up nearly as much of the government treasury.

The ironic thing is that the bailout deal announced IS a reorganization bankruptcy without the actual filing or the inclusion of a judge... Here's how the WaPo's business columnist summarized what was agreed to:
It is also important to be honest about what's going on here, which is nothing less than a bankruptcy restructuring without the bankruptcy filing. Over the next 90 days, General Motors and Chrysler will meet with their unions and committees of their major unsecured creditors to negotiate how much each of them is going to give up so that viable companies can emerge.

During that time, the government has agreed to provide what in bankruptcy is called debtor-in-possession financing -- a bridge loan to keep the companies going while the restructuring is negotiated. The hope is that at the end of the 90 days, a deal is reached among all the parties and it is possible to make it legally binding on all the stakeholders without resorting to the extraordinary powers of the bankruptcy court. If that is not possible, then the negotiated plan will be run quickly through the bankruptcy process as a "pre-packaged" reorganization.

Since October, it's been obvious that this is the way the story has to end. Unfortunately, everyone was too busy posturing in the hope of delaying the pain and gaining a bit of negotiating advantage. The companies denied that they were running out of money. The union said it had made all the concessions it was going to make. The Michigan congressional delegation kept up the fiction about a "bridge loan" to get the companies through their temporary "liquidity" shortage. Southern Republicans harbored dreams of breaking the United Auto Workers union. And the White House couldn't get past worrying over which pot of money the auto loans came from, as if it made any difference.

If they'd all simply faced reality two months ago, it would have saved us a lot of unnecessary drama.
But MSNBC and others will no doubt continue to push the meme that this is all about "The GOP" wanting to destroy the UAW.
 
Oh, please. The senators that led the march against the bill were from states that have BOUGHT foreign automakers into their states with subsidies.


It's pure politics.
 
Union leaders were told by senate representatives that it was about politics during their negotiations with the Republcan holdouts. Perhaps they were lying.

But likely not.
 
The senators that led the march against the bill were from states that have BOUGHT foreign automakers into their states with subsidies.
Wow, so those state only offer tax breaks to foreign companies? That's terrible!

As pointed out, those foreign automakers also supported the bailout... so it's hardly like they were doing it to appease them.

Perhaps they were lying.

But likely not.
...or engaging in speculation or expressing their personal opinion.
 
I am just relieved that President Bush and his advisors are giving the Detroit auto industry a chance and have approved a small bridge loan.

That is what is really important in the grand scheme.
 













Receive up to $1,000 in Onboard Credit and a Gift Basket!
That’s right — when you book your Disney Cruise with Dreams Unlimited Travel, you’ll receive incredible shipboard credits to spend during your vacation!
CLICK HERE













DIS Facebook DIS youtube DIS Instagram DIS Pinterest

Back
Top