Attractions list for Hong Kong Disneyland.

[bretsyboo]

Man you guys are hilarious!

Personally I think the gardens will be wildly popular as well, I mean what else are the guests going to do?

And it would be great if HKDL was popular! That way the half day park idea will be validated! Who knows, then they may try a 4th day park!

We the public must learn to accept and cheer on whatever Disney gives us so that they can continue to give us less and know we'll buy. This forum seems to lead that revolution. Bravo!

"By all accounts HKDL is costing in the neighborhood of 3.5 BILLION dollars"

That's the resort, not the park. And Disney is paying around half of that.

"And for that matter, when has Disney ever opened a "completed" park ?"
Disneyland
Magic Kingdom
Epcot
Tokyo Disneyland
Disneyland Paris
Tokyo Disneysea

 

[wtg2000]

Man you guys are hilarious!

Personally I think the gardens will be wildly popular as well, I mean what else are the guests going to do?

Guaranteed that within two years the gardens will be character meet and greets!

We the public must learn to accept and cheer on whatever Disney gives us so that they can continue to give us less and know we'll buy. This forum seems to lead that revolution. Bravo!

LOL! That's been going on for years. Some people will bend over backwards to justify anything that Disney does.

 

[SoCalKDG]

Guaranteed that within two years the gardens will be character meet and greets! .

I think the gardens are already scheduled for meet and greets. I had read they would be having character greetings in one of the garden areas. Maybe something similar to the AK area by FOTLK.

I never say your first response so I apologize if you felt insulted. I was playing around a little bit with you, thus the happy face. The way you typed that response lead me to believe you either mistyped it or you were pulling our leg just a bit.

Unfortunately we are not privey to the negotiations that occurred between Disney and SARS, but it would be difficult to fault Disney in this case because an initial investment of 12% getting a return controlling interest of 43% should be applauded. Think about just those two numbers. That just amazes me.

By the way, being as the Chinese economy, as well as income disbursal is, its very difficult to know how this venture will turn out. Are there any other major U.S. entertainment ventures that have been built in HK lately?

"And for that matter, when has Disney ever opened a "completed" park ?"
Disneyland
Magic Kingdom
Epcot
Tokyo Disneyland
Disneyland Paris
Tokyo Disneysea
.

Since this is a discussion on rides, and you believe HKDL is a incomplete park when it comes to rides, name the rides when Epcot and Disneyland first opened. Then compare them to HKDL. Good luck coming up with 10 for Epcot.

 

[SoCalKDG]

Epcot had in 1982:

World of Motion
CommuniCore
Universe of Energy
Spaceship Earth
The Land Boat Ride
American Adventure
Mexico Boat Ride
Films in France, China, and Canada

Horizons and Living Seas opened in 83 & 86.



Disneyland in 1955 had:

Rocket to the Moon,
King Arthur Carousel,
Snow White's Adventures,
Dumbo
Mr. Toad's Wild Ride
Circarama
Rocket to the Moon
Tomorrowland Boats
Golden Horseshoe Revue
Mule Pack
Mickey Mouse Club Theater
Casey Jr. Circus Train
Disneyland Railroad
Peter Pan's Flight
Mark Twain Riverboat
Jungle Cruise
Misc arcades and horse drawn street cars

Added later:
Autopia (1956),
Viewliner train in 1957
Matterhorn, Submarine Voyage, and the Monorail 1959
It's a Small World (1966).

So you can see neither park had real "E" tickets when they first opened. Both added key features in the first 5 years they were opened. This continued with AK and DisneyMGM as well(even less than Epcot).

 

[raidermatt]

...name the rides when Epcot and Disneyland first opened. Then compare them to HKDL.

This excercise has been done before on this board many times. I don't remember the list for Epcot, but you might want to edit out DL from that statement. It opened with more, despite the fact that the company was scrounging for coins in the proverbial couch to pay for it.

Comparing the voluntary "give them as little as we can give them" strategy of today with what it took to get Disneyland off the ground just doesn't add up.

Further, if we are actually going to call a 10 attraction park a full day park, do we now refer to DL and MK as 5 day parks? However you want to define it, the point is, they are opening parks with a fraction of what the existing parks offer, while charging full price. That don't fly at home or in Europe anymore, so better take it somewhere else.

$3.5 billion? What did Fox Family cost several years ago? (hint: it was more)

The captial is there. Its all a question of where the company wants to spend it.

 

[bretsyboo]

"Epcot had in 1982:

World of Motion
CommuniCore
Universe of Energy
Spaceship Earth
The Land Boat Ride
American Adventure
Mexico Boat Ride
Films in France, China, and Canada"

Adventureland - Jungle River Cruise, Raft’s to Tarzan’s Treehouse, Tarzan’s Treehouse and Festival of the Lion King.

Fantasyland - The Many Adventures of Winnie The Pooh, Mickey’s Philharmagic, Dumbo, Mad Hatter Tea Cups, Sleeping Beauty’s Castle, Cinderella’s Carousel and the Disneyland Railroad (with stops only in Fantasyland & Main Street).

Tomorrowland - Space Mountain, Buzz Lightyear’s Astro Blasters and Orbitron."

Now watch:
JC 10 minutes
rafts 8 minutes (if they are like the rafts in other parks)
treehouse 2 minutes
festival of the lion king 25 minutes
pooh 4 minutes
philharmagic 12 minutes
dumbo 90 seconds
tea cups 90 seconds
carousel 90 seconds
train 15 minutes at the most
space mountian 2 1/2 minutes
buzz 4 1/2 minutes
orbitron 90 seconds
total: 1 hour, 27 minutes of which 23 minutes are transportation.

Epcot 1982:

Spaceship earth 14 minutes
World of Motion 17 minutes
universe of energy 32 minutes
the land 12 minutes
el rio del tiempo 7 minutes
American adventure 29 minutes
france 18
china 19
canada 18

oh, and by the way, Kitchen Kabaret opened with the park also it was 13 minutes

that totals...
2 hours and 46 minutes

BUT ALSO...

Communicore had the computer revue movie, electronic forum, teleport, computer central, energy exchange, and futurecom

And Magic Journeys opened also but alas I don't know how long that 3D movie was

The land had the movie Symbiosis, but I don't know how long that was either. EDIT-Good news! Turns out it is 18 minutes long, meaning we are up to 3HR 4 minutes still without adding these others.

Spaceship earth had the post show Earth station interactive area

So you can total those up with it...

Of course in December Imagination opened, just 2 1/2 months after the rest of the park, and as you say the next few years yielded major attractions

And we haven't even talked about streetsmosphere, or the countries as attractions in their own right and their displays.

and horizons would be open in less than a year and was already under construction.

Now, notice that all of these attractions were...originals. The entire park had to go through original design and all of the money that goes along with it. It is of course also massive in comparison to HKDL. They had more to do, more to see, more in planning, all original, and didn't have 17 different 90 second spinners. It is clear that the designers of Epcot went out to give guests all they could give them, and a comparison to HKDL is just silly.

 

[wtg2000]

The way you typed that response lead me to believe you either mistyped it or you were pulling our leg just a bit.

Actually, I believe that in your haste to justify Disney's decisions you pounced on something you didn't understand.

Since this is a discussion on rides, and you believe HKDL is a incomplete park when it comes to rides, name the rides when Epcot and Disneyland first opened. Then compare them to HKDL. Good luck coming up with 10 for Epcot.

This is my entire point. Walt sunk everything into Disneyland. Disney is sinking nothing into HKDL. Did they design any new rides; are they putting up much money? No. The Disney company sunk just about everything into EPCOT center. They developed new ride systems, new types of attractions. They took theme parks in an entirely new direction. It was a massive undertaking.

You asked me earlier if I was typing with a straight face? You're actually comparing Walt opening DL with the current Disney company opening HKDL? Fifty years later? A multi-billion dollar entertainment empire against a couple brothers who had to leverage their life insurance policies or whatever they did?

As for EPCOT - you're comparing Dumbo and Teacups with Spaceship Earth and the American Adventure!!!!!!!!! (sorry, but I just can't type enough exclamation points)

 

[wtg2000]

OK, lets play estimate game. Lets assume you are Joe Tourist, and you want to do everything. Plus you haven't checked out the Disboards and guide books, so maybe you don't ride everything in the correct order. Much of the info is based off my experiences from both WDW and many trips to DLR.

Our list, total time to wait and ride:

Jungle River Cruise - 25 min. wait, 15 min. ride
Raft’s to Tarzan’s Treehouse - going to skip
Tarzan’s Treehouse - going to skip
Festival of the Lion King - 20 min. wait in seats, 25 min. show
The Many Adventures of Winnie The Pooh - 35 min wait, 5 min. ride
Mickey’s Philharmagic - 20 min. wait, 15 min show
Dumbo - 40 min wait, 2 min. ride
Mad Hatter Tea Cups - 25 min wait, 2 min ride
Sleeping Beauty’s Castle - skip
Cinderella’s Carousel - 12 min wait, 3 min ride
Disneyland Railroad (with stops only in Fantasyland & Main Street) 15 min wait, 30 min ride around complete park
Space Mountain - 60 min wait, 5 min ride
Buzz Lightyear’s Astro Blasters - 30 min wait, 5 min ride
Orbitron - 20 min wait, 3 min ride

Walking between rides usually 3-4 miles per day(estimating low) at a park, thus 90 minutes walking. Restroom breaks and snack breaks 30 minutes. 2 meals in the day, 90 minutes. Character interaction 30 minutes. 15 minutes into park and 15 minutes leaving park.

Total time: 682 minutes or 11.5 hours. So 10:00 AM to 9:30 PM

Much of the times listed is for average days at parks. Assuming that the park is small as you say, expect the lines to be 20-30% longer. If you FP 3-4 rides, this might balance this a bit. This didn't account for parades, small shows, fireworks, gardens, etc.

All the times are just estimates, and while I've seen the times at half the above listed, I've also seen the times twice as long on crowded days. Its possible every day might be a crowded day as its the only game in town.

E tickets:
Festival of the Lion King
Mickey’s Philharmagic
Space Mountain

Having looked at everything, the lineup would be very good for a second park. Since this is the primary park, how quickly expansion happens is important. The addition of two of the following would help: POTC, HM, Splash, BTMRR.

This is not a question of estimating times. Yes, if you wait one hour for 10 attractions then it will take you over 10 hours. That's not the point. The point is, is it worth 11.5 hours and $50 to ride 10 attractions? Most of which last 90 seconds?

First, I believe you're making critical errors. Five million guests per year say divided by 365 days. That's about 14,000 per day. What's the ride capacity of let's say Dumbo? It's a lot less than 14,000. It's probably about 4,000 (I'm saying about 400 per hour for ten hours. At your two minute ride time plus loading and unloading - maybe they get 12-15 rides per hour) So not everyone that enters the park is going to be able to ride Dumbo, or Tea Cups, or the merry-go-round and maybe not even Pooh or some of the other rides. There just isn't enough capacity on these rides.

Also, not every ride is for everyone (as I think you pointed out). Is this a full day park for adults, tots, thrillseekers?

You could be right about wait times. With so little to do people may indeed have to line up for 60 minutes for every 90 second spin. I'm sure this will make guests happy!

I've visited Disney parks all over the world - DL on busy Saturdays, TDL during summer holidays, MK at Christmas and Easter. In all cases I was able to do a lot more than what you "estimated" above because the capacity was there. And I didn't line up for the long wait times that you've estimated. I just don't see this capacity at HKDL. (Joe Guest shouldn't have to wait 25 for Jungle Cruise if it's first thing in the morning and he's one of the first ones there!)

You're also forgetting that some people will want to ride Space Mountain again (and again) and some won't want to ride it at all. You can't manufacture times and estimate someone's day as a way of justifying a park. Do you really believe you would get a full day's value out of this attraction line up? Maybe the Hong Kong guests will. I hope so.

You're justifying the park because it WILL take 11.5 hours to do about 10 rides! Using your logic let's play another estimate game. Opening day 4,000 people show up. All the rides break down except Dumbo so everyone lines up for Dumbo. The people at the back of the line have to wait 10 hours to get on. So they wait 10 hours for a 90 second ride. After the exit they say, "Look at the time. It's 8pm and we're still in the park. That was a full day. This really is a full day park!"

 

[Plus4206]

"That's the resort, not the park. And Disney is paying around half of that."

Actually, it's being reported Disney is only paying around 12% of that total, yet they will own approx 43%.

"$3.5 billion? What did Fox Family cost several years ago? (hint: it was more)"

But Disney's out of pocket expense was well under 3.5 billion.

No Disney park ever opened with the same number of rides that it has today or at some point in its history. I have no doubt that DL,MK & Epcot opened more complete then all the parks that followed. I also don't doubt that Walt - and Roy - built all they could possibly afford to build. Heck, Walt went in hock to ABC to get DL built. But Walt and Roy were building something that was THEIRS. They had a passion for THEIR company & reputation that no other CEO will ever have. ME may own a gazillion shares, but Disney will never be his the way it was Walt & Roys.

IMO, ME can read this board and say "screw ya's". Walt or Roy would be mortified if they thought even the small number we represent felt about their parks the way we do.

 

[SoCalKDG]

Wow, over 60 min. of movies at Epcot it would seem watching the Discovery channel might have been a better choice for the day, and much cheaper. Oh, and what great technology they had to create those boat rides.......And those "E" tickets they had.......Hmm, wonder why they have added TT, MS, Soaring, oh year, people don't want movies and slow boat rides, they want "E" tickets and top shows(I'm not including myself, I wish I had seen Horizons, as well as some of the other extinct rides).

This is not a question of estimating times. Yes, if you wait one hour for 10 attractions then it will take you over 10 hours. That's not the point. The point is, is it worth 11.5 hours and $50 to ride 10 attractions? Most of which last 90 seconds?

First, I believe you're making critical errors. Five million guests per year say divided by 365 days. That's about 14,000 per day. What's the ride capacity of let's say Dumbo? It's a lot less than 14,000. It's probably about 4,000 (I'm saying about 400 per hour for ten hours. At your two minute ride time plus loading and unloading - maybe they get 12-15 rides per hour) So not everyone that enters the park is going to be able to ride Dumbo, or Tea Cups, or the merry-go-round and maybe not even Pooh or some of the other rides. There just isn't enough capacity on these rides.

Also, not every ride is for everyone (as I think you pointed out). Is this a full day park for adults, tots, thrillseekers?

You could be right about wait times. With so little to do people may indeed have to line up for 60 minutes for every 90 second spin. I'm sure this will make guests happy!

I've visited Disney parks all over the world - DL on busy Saturdays, TDL during summer holidays, MK at Christmas and Easter. In all cases I was able to do a lot more than what you "estimated" above because the capacity was there. And I didn't line up for the long wait times that you've estimated. I just don't see this capacity at HKDL. (Joe Guest shouldn't have to wait 25 for Jungle Cruise if it's first thing in the morning and he's one of the first ones there!)

Not sure where you are getting an average of one hour wait times, the wait times I listed averaged 27 minutes, a far cry from 1 hour you list. I also didn't include any shows, fireworks, all the rides, etc.

You'd be surprised what makes guests happy. If you read some of the discussions on this board from people commenting on their friends and associates that go to WDW unprepared, do 7-8 rides in a day, and enjoy it. They still don't know what FP is. They get to the parks at 11(they are on vacation so why wake up early). They spend the busy afternoons at the park(why do you think the busiest time is around 2:00 PM). My relatives are going in May, 16 of them. Plan, ha. I'd bet they don't even know about AK. This is Joe Tourist. He's not like you or me, he is the average Joe.

Why do you think they put in a 3 hour que at Soaring? Two hour waits at TT? Splash mountain here at DL with 2 hour waits? People at DL waiting 2 hours before the start of Fantasmic. The people that are on these boards that prepare and are knowledgeable represent such a small pct. of actual visitors? The Joe Guest that I described actually didn't wait in any lines over 60 minutes. I was being conservative. On some days Joe Guest will only get 2/3 of the things listed done. For the first couple visits, Joe Guest at HK will want to try everything since they've never been on anything. Combine that with Joe Guest really liking space mtn, so they line up again in that 1.5 hour line. And like it.

Now Joe Guest will get smarter if he frequents the park. He will realize when and where to go. He'll eventually realize he only likes half the stuff there. Eventually the park becomes a 1/2 day. What does Disney do now. Do they start phase 2? Do they add a couple shows plus 3-4 rides? If they do, then Joe Guest goes back. If not, then Disney is in trouble.

 

[SoCalKDG]

Further, if we are actually going to call a 10 attraction park a full day park, do we now refer to DL and MK as 5 day parks?

First, its 15 attractions. Other smaller entertainment unknown. Parade and fireworks unknown.

Oh, I'd give both parks(DL & MK) 3 days to really enjoy them with my family. So I'd call them 3 day parks. So that jumps the cost up to $150 for 3 days.

This park at HK will probably set the tone for future Disney parks. If its successful, I'd expect at least 2-3 more of the same size to go up in other places in the world. If its not, figuring out why it failed will be key. Was it too small, or was it the culture?

 

[raidermatt]

Oh, I'd give both parks(DL & MK) 3 days to really enjoy them with my family. So I'd call them 3 day parks. So that jumps the cost up to $150 for 3 days.

Are you saying we should quit complaining because we should be paying $150 a day for DL and MK?

Wow, over 60 min. of movies at Epcot it would seem watching the Discovery channel might have been a better choice for the day, and much cheaper.

Discovery Channel? This was the early 80's.

Oh, and what great technology they had to create those boat rides.......And those "E" tickets they had.......Hmm, wonder why they have added TT, MS, Soaring, oh year, people don't want movies and slow boat rides, they want "E" tickets and top shows(I'm not including myself, I wish I had seen Horizons, as well as some of the other extinct rides).

Geez. You really need to do some research, or at least approach the topic with a more open mind. Epcot did just fine for quite awhile. However, under Eisner, it was allowed to stagnate. Those old films and attractions were not updated or replaced. Then, as the popularity of the park waned (duh), they decided it was a bad concept from the beginning and ordered "thrill" rides.

This park at HK will probably set the tone for future Disney parks. If its successful, I'd expect at least 2-3 more of the same size to go up in other places in the world. If its not, figuring out why it failed will be key. Was it too small, or was it the culture?

This is hardly a prototype. DSP used the same strategy. The only difference, again, is the market. The folks in Europe now know a real park when they see one, so they rejected the 1/2 effort.

But I agree that if its successful, expect more of the same. Find other markets with lower expectations and give them lesser efforts because they won't know any better.

Brilliant. "Give the people as little as you can give them."

Doesn't quite have the same ring to it, does it?

 

[airlarry!]

This thread has just made history as the first ever in the history of internet online discussions where a poster argued that EPCOT Center was a half-day park. Congratulations to whoever came up with that one.

Holy Judging Excellent Parks Back Then By Today's Standards Batman!

Epcot was not a half day park. Puhlease. It was a TWO DAY park and drove the company to start providing multiday passes. You know, the sort of thing Ei$ner's California Misadventure was supposed to do...except now you can get in ECA for free. On the same day.

Riding dumbo once after waiting 11.5 hours does not make Dumbo in and of itself a full day park...well...at least until some suit drafts a memo up to Mini-ME's desk and asks him to look at a "Fresh New Powerpoint On Improving Guest Satisfaction" by eliminating rides and building eleven hour queues.

Again, shame on whoever it is that allowed Disney to get such a good deal on investment and not pony up the rides and attractions to match that good deal.

 

[wtg2000]

Oh, I'd give both parks(DL & MK) 3 days to really enjoy them with my family. So I'd call them 3 day parks. So that jumps the cost up to $150 for 3 days.

Okay, this is getting too weird. Now you're saying that the other MKs are 3-day parks? Well, I think we were discussing HKDL as being a 1/2 park in comparison to other MKs being a full day park - thus saying that it wasn't worth the money by comparison. You argued strongly that HKDL was a full day, an indication that you were putting it on equal footing with the other MKs. Now you're turning around and saying that the standard you were comparing it to were 3-day parks! Sorry, but that's totally misleading. Yes, I'm sure you'll say you never said that, but that's what was implied. This entire argument is just silly now.

Let's recap: HKDL = full day (eventually becoming 1/2 day as Joe Guest gets smarter). DL/MK = 3-days. EPCOT = half day. (Do I have this right?)

 

[bretsyboo]

ladies and gentlemen this discussion is over.

Epcot 1982 has been insulted and deemed non innovative and boring as a way of justifying HKDL. It's absurd and everyone knows it.

What this is hopefully is a case of someone not admitting when they are wrong. As opposed to someone not understanding what Epcot was supposed to be and thinking of it as "just another theme park" and that the definition of a full day park is "enough to do and enough lines that you stay there all day" rather than "enough here to keep most people interested for a full day or more."

That's all I can think of when it's a comparison between queing up over and over for a 90 second spinning ride, as opposed to spending 20 minutes watching the brilliant and innovative 360 degree china movie inside of a beautiful pavilion.

Essentially all of the invented wait times were peak hour wait times as opposed to people getting there in the morning and essentially walking on several of them, not to mention people getting very unlucky when wanting to ride the train.

So all of the guests can funnel around to the same rides and eat at the same restaurants and thank God they aren't spending their time in Epcot 1982 where there clearly wasn't enough to do, and none of it at all interesting like the teacups.

Yes when someone battles against such odds with these arguements then it isn't worth proceeding. I wonder how much more Epcot would have needed before it was worth a full day or how much less HKDL could have been left with before paying the same price would be considered a rip off.

For years an unanswered question has been posed. Where is the line? At what point do you say "gosh I came here because I loved the value of the past, but that is gone now. I am being ripped off."

When is Disney just another company?

 

[wtg2000]

ladies and gentlemen this discussion is over.

Epcot 1982 has been insulted and deemed non innovative and boring as a way of justifying HKDL. It's absurd and everyone knows it.

What this is hopefully is a case of someone not admitting when they are wrong. As opposed to someone not understanding what Epcot was supposed to be and thinking of it as "just another theme park" and that the definition of a full day park is "enough to do and enough lines that you stay there all day" rather than "enough here to keep most people interested for a full day or more."

As I'm sure you are aware, there are two extreme camps on these boards. One camp blasts anything pre-Eisner and lauds everything in the Eisner era. The other is the exact opposite. I have no idea why they are like this. Perhaps they just do it for their jollies. For the most part I avoid them, but sometimes it's fun to debate with them just to see how far they will go to justify their position. Usually, they will stop at nothing.

It was especially interesting when they slammed everything about TDS (owned by the OLC) in their attempts to justify DCA. I don't think they realized that Disney Imagineers actually designed and built TDS. Anyway, I agree with you that the denigration of EPCOT has reached twilight zone levels and that it's time to move on.

 

[YoHo]

Since we're all making Snarky comments. SoCalkdg also went a few rounds with me trying to explain how DCA is a great theme park. Now I realize I'm a member of the feared element, but if you think DCA is a great theme park, then I wouldn't put too much faith in your judgment of any other theme park.


As for the two extreme camps. Much like political parties, it's only extreme when judged by the other side. The majority of the members are far more moderate.....(at least on my side) or I should say they are not the axe murdering dog molesters the other side accuses them of being.


The fact of the matter is that Walt didn't just put Disney in Hoc to get DL built. he put his family in hoc. he cashed in his life insurance. He put in every penny he could to build that place.

Similarly, the company put every resource they had into Epcot. Now when the company actually has the resources to fund these ventures, they balk at the idea looking to save cash. To buy really bad cable networks and terrible telvision networks instead.

 

[Bork]

I thought one of the problems with Paris (besides the hotel problem) was that they tried catering to the locals and it backfired. They built tons of sit-down restaurants because research showed that's what Europeans wanted. But when people came, they wanted quicker meals and snacks, like their American counterparts.

 

[YoHo]

Then of course there was also the fact that WDI research said that the best location was in Spain, but Eisner INSISTED on Paris.

 

[Plus4206]

Yeah, but nobody in Spain speaks English.