Attitudes Toward Teachers

[Eeyores Butterfly]

Believe me, if I had found ONE teacher who really cared about helping my son, who has some learning disabilities, to learn and succeed, I would be soooo appreciative.... I would literally be falling at their feet in admiration and thanks...

That simply has NOT been the case.
Has not happened yet...
My experience began as DS was turning 3 in preschool, and has involved many teachers/educators/administrators, between then and now. He is now age 10.

I am sorry you have had such a bad experience with your son . This is exactly the reason I am getting a dual degree in elementary and sped, too many classroom teachers are unable to properly accommodate a child with disabilities in the general education classroom. Of the eleven of us in the sped program, there are only one or two I have concerns about. They are all amazing young women and are going to be great sped teachers.

Mine son is only 6, but we've already had our share of GOOD TEACHERs and NOT SO GOOD TEACHERS throughout preschool.

GOOD TEACHERS teach the student. Everybody learns differently. They know this and they get to know their kids. Once you are on a kids' wavelength, you can teach them almost anything! Kids and teachers are engaged and involved.


NOT SO GOOD TEACHERS teach to the curriculum. They rush through stuff not like they enjoy it, but it's just a checklist to them. If kids don't shut up and sit still, they are deemed problems, even in preK or K when it's not developmentally appropriate to sit still for an hour and listen to the teacher.

AMEN! I am teaching 6th grade reading for summer school. The schools use a scripted curriculum, but every night the university students are spending at least an hour to two planning for the next day and modifying the curriculum, because frankly, it sucks sometimes. Even in the same day, I do not teach every class the same way, I modify it as the day goes to reach the students. I had a great experience today, in every single one of my classes I had a student say out loud that they didn't think they would like this book/class but that they are really enjoying it. It made my day. It is because of this class I am scrambling to add the Middle School Communication Arts endorsement/certification. I did not think I would like middle school, and I love it. Sure, we have some, um, "fun" challenges, but it's a fun age to teach over all.

I'll just speak to our experience with homework...
IMO assigning pages of homework (let's say 50 math problems) doesn't seem to teach anything more than just assigning 10 problems would.
And also, in our experience, a lot of homework comes across as busywork. I understand that there might be some serious pedagogical reason for assigning "projects" (eek!) or pages of homework, but most of the time? As a parent and as a family? We've just gritted our teeth and gotten through it.
agnes!

We are actually taught in our Master's program that there is no reason to assign large numbers of homework problems when you can assess the same thing in ten. That's just not best practice.

I just don't see the value of repetition for repetition's sake. I thought rote learning and memorization had supposedly been discredited in modern educational literature.

Actually, research has shown that massed practice is the number one way to learn a new concept. As we are taught in our teaching program, repitition, repitition, repitition. I would not do 50 at once, because I want to make sure that students are practicing it right, but they still need lots of practice and review in order to learn a new concept.

 

[agnes!]

...I'm not sure where the pp got his/her figure about 80% of costs going to teachers salaries but I'd like to know what the figure is if you factor out administration salaries.

Here is an avenue back to the original topic Do teachers not get any respect because it is a job primarily held by women?

I have long believed that is why there is such a huge difference between administrative salaries and teacher salaries. The most I will ever make in the classroom--$65k...my principal (former PE teacher) $109k.

Ding ding ding! I think we might just have a winner!

agnes!

 

[Eeyores Butterfly]

I want to teach at the KIPP Endeavor Academy in Kansas City. KIPP is a nationwide free charter school that specialized in at-risk students. 80% of their students go to college after high school, that is well above the national norm. The students come to school from 7:30am to 5:00pm and four hours every other Saturday. They wear school uniforms and have very strict behavior and academic standards. The parents and student sign a homework contract. The minimum is one hour a night, but it is typically more along the lines of 2-3. Do you know why they have so much? Because it works! I understand that kids participate in extracurriculars, heck, I danced three to four hours a night m-th and half days on Saturdays all through middle school and ninth grade. The thing is, that is extracurricular. Education should always come first, if my grades ever started to slip I would not have been allowed to continue dancing.

We simply do not have time to cover everything we are required to cover in the time allotted if we do not assign homework. It is also a useful assessment tool because many times knowing a concept in the classroom and knowing it when you get home are two very different things. I have to make sure your child can apply this concept outside of school, and homework is one of hte best ways for me to do that. They need to be able to do it without my support.

The other issue here is that thanks to NCLB, many districts are attempting "teacher proof" the curriculum. More and more districts are relying on scripted curriculums, especially in math and reading. In many districts, especially those that are being sanctioned under NCLB, you are required to follow the scripted lessons. The homework is created by the company and if you have to give it. If you deviate from the lessons, you can be in serious trouble. Yet one more way NCLB has "helped" our students...

 

[livndisney]

Yes, I do have an attitude when it comes to teachers and school districts. And I will tell you why. My child just came from a school where the administration was more concerned about the coats the children were wearing that what they were learning. These same children were allowed to leave the playground and cross what was a traffic road that ran thru the school. All without a teacher! Allergies were ignored. Buses just did not show up. Children "misplaced" on buses. And according to the staff NONE of this was the school's fault. I was told children ONLY learn one way. I could go on. So yes it did become a "them vs us" kind of thing. It was clear to me and MANY other parents that this school did not have our children's best interests at heart. Enrollment dropped so much that the school sent out notices asking the parents to help them gain more students.

Yes I know not all teachers are "bad". But I have to do what is best for my child.

 

[agnes!]

...We are actually taught in our Master's program that there is no reason to assign large numbers of homework problems when you can assess the same thing in ten. That's just not best practice.

Actually, research has shown that massed practice is the number one way to learn a new concept. As we are taught in our teaching program, repitition, repitition, repitition. I would not do 50 at once, because I want to make sure that students are practicing it right, but they still need lots of practice and review in order to learn a new concept.

Well, your class might be coming out of school with this new/old teaching style, but right *now* in most schools I know about...

*large numbers of (seemingly mindless to this parent) homework problems are the norm, hours of homework are the norm, the idea of assessment does not seem to be emphasized. Homework overload to me is different from memorizing great speeches of the past or multiplication tables or grammar rules, because?...
*the experiential learning model is firmly ensconced in the classroom, the rote/memorization methods have been discarded. One of my main beefs is that no one I know (who passed through elementary schools recently) memorized their multiplication tables, unless the parents taught them that way at home.

It is a strange dichotomy, but in my experience on one hand doing pages of mid-numbing problems is encouraged strictly as homework and on the other memorization in the classroom itself is discouraged.

By the way, I think you sound like you will be a wonderful teacher.

agnes!

 

[kwdietrich1]

Well, your class might be coming out of school with this new/old teaching style, but right *now* in most schools I know about...

*large numbers of (seemingly mindless to this parent) homework problems are the norm, hours of homework are the norm, the idea of assessment does not seem to be emphasized. Homework overload to me is different from memorizing great speeches of the past or multiplication tables or grammar rules, because?...
*the experiential learning model is firmly ensconced in the classroom, the rote/memorization methods have been discarded. One of my main beefs is that no one I know (who passed through elementary schools recently) memorized their multiplication tables, unless the parents taught them that way at home.

It is a strange dichotomy, but in my experience on one hand doing pages of mid-numbing problems is encouraged strictly as homework and on the other memorization in the classroom itself is discouraged.

By the way, I think you sound like you will be a wonderful teacher.

agnes!

Amen to the bolded. I am a Spanish teacher. Most of learning a language is MEMORIZATION! I am always struggling to get student to understand how important it is to memorize vocabulary and their verb endings. Every semester I review with students (or in many cases, introduce to students) simple techniques that aid in memorization of vocab/grammar concepts. Many students simply do not know how to study. Some think staring at their vocab lists for 5 min is enough. For a select few, it may be, but for the majority of students, they need to interact with the material.

It appears as the art of learning is being trashed for the newest trend in education, and ignoring the fact that sometimes the basics work the best.

 

[Stacerita]

I guess I have been lucky that DD has always had great teachers. They truly seemed to love what they do and care about the children. I work with the teachers she has had in order to give her the best education possible. Its worked, DD was acepted to the number one school in the state.

 

[Eeyores Butterfly]

I will say that again, my teacher's program is awesome! In one of my classes we spent several weeks on teaching students techniques for studying. We had to do a project on it, writing lesson plans to incorporate studying techniques into the curriculum.

 

[Ichabadi]

My son has had some absolutely spectacular teachers, but unfortunately he's also had a few who were rather worthless.

The thing is, the most important thing to any of us is our children and we'll all lash out if we think they aren't being treated as we think they should. As my son (a teenager) has gotten older I've learned to back off and only intercede on his behalf if it is truly warranted.

 

[Teacher03]

Ditto...in my state (as well as most others) master's degrees are required. And no the degree isn't paid for by the state. When I got my master's degree my husband worked 2 jobs to help me pay for my degree. At the time, with the cost of higher education, I recouped my tutition and book costs after about 2 1/2 years. The pay increase from a BA to and MA is around $5k for the year. Now, with tutition constantly on the rise, it takes young teachers about 4 to 5 years to recoup tutition and book costs.

I'm not sure where the pp got his/her figure about 80% of costs going to teachers salaries but I'd like to know what the figure is if you factor out administration salaries.

Here is an avenue back to the original topic Do teachers not get any respect because it is a job primarily held by women?

I have long believed that is why there is such a huge difference between administrative salaries and teacher salaries. The most I will ever make in the classroom--$65k...my principal (former PE teacher) $109k.

I do have to get my masters, but here is the problem. I teach in a Catholic school (which I love), make around $20,000 a year, and will only make $1,000 more a year when I complete my masters. So I will work another 20 years to make the money that I put into my degree. It is very frustrating, but it is required by my state. I have tried getting a job in a public school just for the pay, but they are few and far between here. But, like I said, I love my job. I keep telling myself that when I read threads like this, which to be honest, just saddens me.

 

[Mouse House Mama]

I want to teach at the KIPP Endeavor Academy in Kansas City. KIPP is a nationwide free charter school that specialized in at-risk students. 80% of their students go to college after high school, that is well above the national norm. The students come to school from 7:30am to 5:00pm and four hours every other Saturday. They wear school uniforms and have very strict behavior and academic standards. The parents and student sign a homework contract. The minimum is one hour a night, but it is typically more along the lines of 2-3. Do you know why they have so much? Because it works! I understand that kids participate in extracurriculars, heck, I danced three to four hours a night m-th and half days on Saturdays all through middle school and ninth grade. The thing is, that is extracurricular. Education should always come first, if my grades ever started to slip I would not have been allowed to continue dancing.

We simply do not have time to cover everything we are required to cover in the time allotted if we do not assign homework. It is also a useful assessment tool because many times knowing a concept in the classroom and knowing it when you get home are two very different things. I have to make sure your child can apply this concept outside of school, and homework is one of hte best ways for me to do that. They need to be able to do it without my support.

The other issue here is that thanks to NCLB, many districts are attempting "teacher proof" the curriculum. More and more districts are relying on scripted curriculums, especially in math and reading. In many districts, especially those that are being sanctioned under NCLB, you are required to follow the scripted lessons. The homework is created by the company and if you have to give it. If you deviate from the lessons, you can be in serious trouble. Yet one more way NCLB has "helped" our students...

I just wanted to point out to you that there is more to education than typical schooling. Extracurricular is just as important. Even colleges look at that now. Personally I want my kids doing more than just schoolwork. While the school you mention "works" I think personally that it works mainly because the people who send their kids there are millitant about schoolwork and don't think kids need to do much more. Just my personal asessment of course. I would never ever even consider a school like that.

 

[spima3]

Here is an avenue back to the original topic Do teachers not get any respect because it is a job primarily held by women?

No, not at all, at least in OUR AREA, as I have stated previously. AND my posts were done not to bash teachers but to explain how the school district works around here, and THAT is the reason the teachers don't get respect. It has absolutely nothing to do with one's gender at all.

 

[Ichabadi]

I do have to get my masters, but here is the problem. I teach in a Catholic school (which I love), make around $20,000 a year, and will only make $1,000 more a year when I complete my masters. So I will work another 20 years to make the money that I put into my degree. It is very frustrating, but it is required by my state. I have tried getting a job in a public school just for the pay, but they are few and far between here. But, like I said, I love my job. I keep telling myself that when I read threads like this, which to be honest, just saddens me.

I swear I've tried to phrase this so as not to offend you, but...you have way too much education to make $20,000 a year. Have you considered relocating?

 

[spima3]

My response is always, if we have it so good, feel free to go back to school to become a teacher.

I am not a teacher because I have no desire to be one. Just like someone who isn't happy with a teacher's pay or working conditions can always seek employment elsewhere.
Around here, there are hundreds of potential replacements just waiting for the chance to fill those vacant positions.
I love my nieces dearly, (the youngest is also going back to school for elem ed, because she has a position waiting for her when she graduates) but I'm sure there are many others out there who are equally qualified, or even more qualified, who will never have a chance because they don't have the right connections.
My brother also gets mad when he hears comments, but I told him if they are perfectly happy to reap the benefits, then they also need to take the crap that comes attached with it.

 

[TomLovesBecky]

The problem with public school teachers is it's the luck of the draw, you might get a gem or you might get a dud, and no way to tell until your kid is already in their class (at least around here, you can't pick, and they don't want to move them unless it's a BIG conflict). We are done with all that and like being able to handpick who will teach our kids. I know most teachers are great people who want to make a difference for the kids but some are just mean and nasty, plain and simple. Like one we have experienced in the past. Not just sometimes, but during almost every interaction with every single parent for the whole year. BTDT, we actually compared notes and no one had a nice thing to say about this woman. Why a nasty person like that would go into teaching is beyond me. Unfortunately a few bad apples spoil the whole bunch, at least for me they did. I don't have a problem with most teachers who are nice and care, I do have a problem with the system and the fact that you can't have any say in what kind of teacher your kids get. I know some districts let parents make a request (not ours) but that means someone else's kids will still get the mean nasty teacher...

 

[MoniqueU]

Some I love, some I like, some I don't like and one I really hate. Just like in life. Mostly I just don't like the principal of our elementary school for her negative attitude and deciding that despite the other schools policies in the district our school is doing science projects every year from 4th through 6th. Once is way more then enough for me. My oldest DD is in gate and has done one every year but first grade because of it. She has a sister a year behind her so last year I had 2 kids doing them at the same time and will have that again this year. The oldest one wants to do elaborate things that while creative aren't easy to do. And then she needs me to ummm help her with it to ther the A. My younger one needs help as well and all of our weekend time is eaten up doing projects they have already done before. The principal also decided no field trips out of the county. Now that may be budget related, I don't know but we have a very boring county and people at our school are for the most part doing pretty well and can pitch in for a field trip or help those that can't.

I don't really have any attitudes towards teachers except the one my daughter had this year because of the way she talked to my daughter and then lied about it in a very obvious way so even the VP knew she wss full of it. Oh well this year is over and on to new teachers and a fresh new year.

 

[TheDisneyGirl02]

Well, do you REALLY need a master's degree to teach? And I know in the not too distant past, teacher's were compensated for their educations. Even now, IF you do get a Masters, it is an automatic pay increase. So there is a clear benefit to that Masters degree, which is not always the case with many other professions. My niece went from $34K to $41k just by getting it. Not too shabby for having been out of college for only two years.
And in an area where the average income is only $28K, $58k IS a lot of money.



As a private citizen helping to fund a public school system, I may not know everything, but I know enough. And since I have family and friends who are teachers, I heard it from their mouths, so it's not just rumors.
And when the schools are falling apart, and there are no supplies, and the kids don't even have desks, and the teachers demand more everytime their contracts are up, then yes, I have a problem with it. That is what happens when over 80% of the budget goes for administrative and teacher salaries/benefits. And I hold the administrators feet equally under the fire.
A recent article in our local paper stated how so many of the experienced teachers were looking to leave because they have to pay towards their healtcare. And wouldn't it be such a terrible waste. (Basically, a publicity campaign has started because their contract is up for renewal this year.)
Later in the article it states how there are ONLY 700 applications on file instead of the usual 1000. Oh, the tragedy of it. Clearly, despite the "poor" pay and benefits, there are many who would gladly do so.

Yes, in the state of PA, in order to teach you DO need a Master's Degree or a Master's equivilency after 4 or 5 years of teaching (that is directly from my twin sister who is a teacher and does have her Masters). Many school districts do pay for teachers to get their Master's however most businesses also pay for their employees continuing education.

I know that you said that you are only refering to your area, however the generalizations you are making is like saying that because you had a bad experience in Harrisburg, you'll never go to that city again because it's just all bad. Not all districts are like the one you are describing, so why group them all together?

Kudos to all of the great teacher's out there! I tell my dad (who is also a teacher) that I'd rather hang myself upside-down by my toe nails than be a teacher! LOL!!!

 

[Eeyores Butterfly]

I just wanted to point out to you that there is more to education than typical schooling. Extracurricular is just as important. Even colleges look at that now. Personally I want my kids doing more than just schoolwork. While the school you mention "works" I think personally that it works mainly because the people who send their kids there are millitant about schoolwork and don't think kids need to do much more. Just my personal asessment of course. I would never ever even consider a school like that.

I did not say extracurriculars are not important. I did not say schooling was all there was. What I am saying is that I believe there should be a balance- like everything else in life. I believe extracurriculars are great- but they should not come at the expense of the child's education. I have seen kids who were so focused on a sport that they had no time for homework or friends. They come to school and can't stay awake because they spend all night practicing.

It doesn't matter how well your kid can pitch a ball, if they cannot write a coherent sentence or add 2+2, their prospects are limited. If the kid is failing, then IMHO less time needs to be spent on sports and more time on education. Passing grades should be a requirement for extracurriculars, teach your child how to manage their child, and use the extracurricular to motivate them in school.

 

[Teacher03]

I swear I've tried to phrase this so as not to offend you, but...you have way too much education to make $20,000 a year. Have you considered relocating?

No offense taken! I agree with you completely. My husband has a good job that would be foolish to leave at this time. My daughter lives in Virginia and she keeps telling me there are teaching jobs there, so it is always in the back of our minds, especially since our youngest just graduated high school and is starting college. I have actually thought about not getting my masters and just leaving teaching when my license expires but I really love my profession. I might get my masters in ISE (special education) because there are more jobs in that area.

 

[GeorgiaPeach8]

No, not at all, at least in OUR AREA, as I have stated previously. AND my posts were done not to bash teachers but to explain how the school district works around here, and THAT is the reason the teachers don't get respect. It has absolutely nothing to do with one's gender at all.

Sorry...have to disagree. I would have been on your side as when I taught middle school I saw NO evidence of gender discrimination. Actually, it was just the opposite. In middle school, very few men, held to a very high standard.

High school is completely different. I've now taught in two high schools. One in a large city, one in a small city. I've been shockd by the good old boy network in both. There is a lower standard for men in the classroom than women.

Also, I think that people who casually say, if you don't like your job--get another one are nuts...exactly what am I trained to do with 2 education degrees and 16 years of teaching. I don't see what is wrong with saying--I like my job but there are some things about it that REALLY need to be changed. Happy teachers=happy students!